I know this is not a legal forum, and of course I am going to check with a real lawyer before going too far with this concept....

I used to work in a certain BRUTAL industry for a company that made a regular practice of treating employees like slaves and customers as suckers. the job did a LOT of damage to my personal life, and while I do have some legal enforcement agencies on the company as we type, that is not nearly going to make restitution for what I lost due to their constant violation of legal rights and outright criminal policies.

I will also suing them for damages, and as part of that process and going to be asking the courts to order them to contact all former staff and offer damages (I know of at least 3 broken relationships caused directly by this companies demands on its staff)

Soo...I have written a paper, extremely damming to the industry. I have mentioned no company or personal names, and carefully worded everything in generalities and well-labeled averages. I want to purchase a few domains, publish the paper to the interwebs, and using mass-postings on Kijiji, Craigslist, facebook and Myspace take it as close to viral as I can.

I already know releasing the info will be EXTREMELY destructive to my former employer (think 30-50% loss of business), to the point that between the legal action increasing operating costs to comply with local, provincial and federal standards, and the loss of revenue my web page will cause, it would most probably result in the shut-down of the company as it would no longer be finacially viable.

Basically, once it is up, they can "purchase" my dot-com for a very hefty price or accept the damage it will do.....but I need to tread that fine line between pressure and extortion, as well as avoiding slander and libel issues.

What do you guys think of the concept? (besides that I am the next Dr. Evil )

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 03-28-2010).]

If they are verifiable facts, or clearly stated as opinion you may be safe from judgment. However, if they have lots more $ then you, they can eat you alive via attrition. Not saying you are right or wrong, but many a person has lost who was in the right due to this simple legal tactic.

What do I think?

1. That hopefully the overweight girl you spoke of in such derogatory manner will do the same regarding you and legal avenues.
2. In regard to your current plan--you better be 100% bulletproof, clean, and able to wear them down versus them doing the same to you. Deep pockets win the day most of the time. (User00013170 beat me to it)

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-28-2010).]

quote Originally posted by User00013170: If they are verifiable facts, or clearly stated as opinion you may be safe from judgment. However, if they have lots more $ then you, they can eat you alive via attrition. Not saying you are right or wrong, but many a person has lost who was in the right due to this simple legal tactic.

Without posting too much, everything is clearly stated as opinion, as well as having a couple tables of financial details proving (with verifiable link) proving to the industries customers that even though they are promised a profit of 35-45%, when all costs (staffing, electricity, ect) are included the actual profit is less than 5%, and an actuall loss for smaller accounts, which is something the industry makes damn sure they never tell the customer. The information has always been there for anybody to calculate for themselves, but the sales people in the industry ARE very good, and the customer usually never figgures it out before the contract is signed.

Do those contracts state anywhere, something like:

"Performance data represents past performance but does not guarantee future results. Investment return and principal values flutuate and you may have a gain or loss at the end of the contract term or when you sell your shares. Current and future performance my differ from figures shown."

In America employment is voluntary. Evey job I've ever held had me sign a voluntary employment form stating that..my employment was, uh, voluntary, and either party could terminate said employment as they see fit, without reason. So, if this employer treated its employees so poorly, why didn't they quit. If the hours were too long or something and it was causing trouble on the home front, you are free to find a different job. I don't see how you can blame the company for personal relationships failing. Maybe I just misunderstood the post, but it kinda sounds like a joke.

Here in Ontario we have something called the "Labor Standards Act"

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca.../es/pdf/es_guide.pdf

Companies either more-or-less play by the same rules as everybody else, or it costs them......If you want to work somebody like a slave, then you hire a contractor and pay him the big bucks that contractors charge. If you want the lower cost of employees, then you treat them in acordance with the standards. Companies dont get to have the best of both worlds.

I dont agree with it completley--but back when I had my wood shop, I had no choice but either pay for the contractor, or hire more staff as employees. I chose the contractor route.

Ontario may be crazy in a lot of ways, but one thing we have up here is individual rights.

Sounds close to black mail. I'd see a lawer first. Blackmail can be true, and be based on totally legal events. Depending on what the laws are and the circumstanses you for sure need a lawyer first.

They could "SLAPP" you and make your life miserable.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-28-2010).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Do those contracts state anywhere, something like: "Performance data represents past performance but does not guarantee future results. Investment return and principal values flutuate and you may have a gain or loss at the end of the contract term or when you sell your shares. Current and future performance my differ from figures shown."

No, the sales data is broken down by unit cost and selling price.....

Its kind-a like a car manufacturer telling a dealer he will make 40% profit on a car and highly emphasizing that number---while neglecting to mention the costs of running a car lot. That example isnt 100% due to industry differences, but "close enough for government work"

A M way??
Nick

My personal, non-lawyer opinion is that you're going to be arrested for blackmail. You're quite clearly saying to them, "Pay me money, or I'll destroy your buisness." Regardless of how right you are, and how evil they are, that's still Blackmail. Try that with ME, and the police will definitely be at your door, with handcuffs and a court order to seize & shut down all your web sites. That your ISP will have no choice but to comply with.

quote Originally posted by Zeb: My personal, non-lawyer opinion is that you're going to be arrested for blackmail. You're quite clearly saying to them, "Pay me money, or I'll destroy your buisness." Regardless of how right you are, and how evil they are, that's still Blackmail. Try that with ME, and the police will definitely be at your door, with handcuffs and a court order to seize & shut down all your web sites. That your ISP will have no choice but to comply with.

All depends on how its done, Zeb.....if I go to them and say "OK, pay or this goes up"--then yup, it is extortion and I will be having a barred-window view of the world.

OTOH, if I just do it, and when (not if, but when) they ***** , then they can make an offer to purchase my business (using ads to generate a revenue on the web pages makes it a legitimate income source).

It IS an interesting discussion, though...thanks.

I don't know, MEM. Even after the fact, you're still in blackmail territory if you even breathe a sigh of "You can buy me out, and the pain will stop."

How else can you let them know it's for sale? Post the For Sale ad on Craigslist? Link to it from the site? You KNOW that's not going to fly. I can't think of how to get around that.

And once the info is out there, the damage is done. You've shot your bolt, and once it's on the web, it'll be there forever. So shutting you down after the damage is worthless. Don't think they won't, but it'll be too late. Afterwards, you simply HAVE to be destroyed. I hope you've got lots of money for lawyers.

Considering what MEM has said about attoneys in the past, I imagine it would be a hard pill to swallow--handing over his cash for their services.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Considering what MEM has said about attoneys in the past, I imagine it would be a hard pill to swallow--handing over his cash for their services.

Yeh, you got me there, I never did make a very good obedient servant to anybody .......but business is business

Well good luck with it. Hey could you arrange to have someone post to here if you get caught up in jail so we can follow the story?

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I know this is not a legal forum, and of course I am going to check with a real lawyer before going too far with this concept.... I used to work in a certain BRUTAL industry for a company that made a regular practice of treating employees like slaves and customers as suckers. the job did a LOT of damage to my personal life, and while I do have some legal enforcement agencies on the company as we type, that is not nearly going to make restitution for what I lost due to their constant violation of legal rights and outright criminal policies. I will also suing them for damages, and as part of that process and going to be asking the courts to order them to contact all former staff and offer damages (I know of at least 3 broken relationships caused directly by this companies demands on its staff) Soo...I have written a paper, extremely damming to the industry. I have mentioned no company or personal names, and carefully worded everything in generalities and well-labeled averages. I want to purchase a few domains, publish the paper to the interwebs, and using mass-postings on Kijiji, Craigslist, facebook and Myspace take it as close to viral as I can. I already know releasing the info will be EXTREMELY destructive to my former employer (think 30-50% loss of business), to the point that between the legal action increasing operating costs to comply with local, provincial and federal standards, and the loss of revenue my web page will cause, it would most probably result in the shut-down of the company as it would no longer be finacially viable. Basically, once it is up, they can "purchase" my dot-com for a very hefty price or accept the damage it will do.....but I need to tread that fine line between pressure and extortion, as well as avoiding slander and libel issues. What do you guys think of the concept? (besides that I am the next Dr. Evil )

The above is essentially a confession of intent to commit extortion.
It is now irrevocably on the web.
Should you proceed with your ill concieved "plan", you should hope that:

1. Nobody in law enforcement sees your "confession"
2. Failing #1, other people on the forum have enough pity on someone as clearly stupid as you to send you a couple of $ and some socks and underwear while you're in prison.


Karma being what it is, it's almost certain that your cellmate will be a frightfully obese homosexual that takes a real "shine" to you.

Good Luck
You'll need it.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-29-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I know this is not a legal forum, and of course I am going to check with a real lawyer before going too far with this concept.... I used to work in a certain BRUTAL industry for a company that made a regular practice of treating employees like slaves and customers as suckers. the job did a LOT of damage to my personal life, and while I do have some legal enforcement agencies on the company as we type, that is not nearly going to make restitution for what I lost due to their constant violation of legal rights and outright criminal policies. I will also suing them for damages, and as part of that process and going to be asking the courts to order them to contact all former staff and offer damages (I know of at least 3 broken relationships caused directly by this companies demands on its staff) Soo...I have written a paper, extremely damming to the industry. I have mentioned no company or personal names, and carefully worded everything in generalities and well-labeled averages. I want to purchase a few domains, publish the paper to the interwebs, and using mass-postings on Kijiji, Craigslist, facebook and Myspace take it as close to viral as I can. I already know releasing the info will be EXTREMELY destructive to my former employer (think 30-50% loss of business), to the point that between the legal action increasing operating costs to comply with local, provincial and federal standards, and the loss of revenue my web page will cause, it would most probably result in the shut-down of the company as it would no longer be finacially viable. Basically, once it is up, they can "purchase" my dot-com for a very hefty price or accept the damage it will do.....but I need to tread that fine line between pressure and extortion, as well as avoiding slander and libel issues. What do you guys think of the concept? (besides that I am the next Dr. Evil )

I don't know how it is in Canada, but down here in the US, doing that could get you some jail time. Your concept is not treading a fine line between anything, it IS extortion.

If you're convinced it is not extortion, then by all means, do it and let us know how it works for ya.....hopefully your prisons have internet access so you can post the results.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 03-29-2010).]

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: In America employment is voluntary. Evey job I've ever held had me sign a voluntary employment form stating that..my employment was, uh, voluntary, and either party could terminate said employment as they see fit, without reason. So, if this employer treated its employees so poorly, why didn't they quit. If the hours were too long or something and it was causing trouble on the home front, you are free to find a different job. I don't see how you can blame the company for personal relationships failing. Maybe I just misunderstood the post, but it kinda sounds like a joke.

I agree w/ this 100% - I found myself in a 'toxic workplace' environment in my latest job. The pay was good, but there were things about the job which were deeply effing w/ my calm. I noticed that it DID affect my family/home life. a LOT. Affected my brain-region, too... NOT COOL. I stuck with it for a few months, tried to work within the chaos, mold my own little piece of sanity, but I wasn't able to do it. I SHOULD have just stayed there while I looked for another job, but I just couldn't take it anymore, I put in my two weeks and quit. It wasn't a good fit. They were very professional the last two weeks,(didn't pull any crazy crap on me) and the 'exit interview' went a lot smoother then expected. As crazy as things were, I wouldn't go out and bad-mouth them. Had I stayed, it would have continued to affect my mental state and family life. But could I blame my bosses for that? There was a job I considered once, it was CRAZY money, insane benefits and perks, but then I found out how the company made money (basically, they trick people into joining a club, which then charges their credit card 7 bucks a month. (at least 50% of people would fall for it, the way they set things up - you never even enter your credit card on their site...) Anyway, I turned down that job.

I have no idea about your situation, what criminal policies they were/are following, or what sort of demands they made on their staff. I DO understand what it's like to be in a effed up job situation, I just would never think to 'sue for damages' for relationship-type stuff. Unless the boss forced you to let him boink yer chick. Or he forced your chick to watch him boink you. or something worse involving small furry mammals or sea monkeys or some other innocent creatures...

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 03-29-2010).]

quote Originally posted by randye: ...Karma being what it is, it's almost certain that your cellmate will be a frightfully obese homosexual that takes a real "shine" to you...

So how will his "new cell mate who takes a real "shine" to him"'s being obese make it worse? I'd think it would make it better. Easier to run in circles in the cell and not get caught.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: So how will his "new cell mate who takes a real "shine" to him"'s being obese make it worse? I'd think it would make it better. Easier to run in circles in the cell and not get caught.

This should answer your question:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/072812.html

I think to win a slander case, you have to PROVE to the court that there was actual cash , or character damages. ie/ like now being unemployable. Having a physical letter saying you werent hired by XXXX because of information supplied by them.