quote Originally posted by lurker: i used to ride, a lot. where i rode, the law went something like this. a cyclist is legally entitled to use the entire lane, or if more than one, to ride abreast within that lane. cars are expected to treat bicyclists as if they are another car, abeit slow-moving, or a tractor. a courteous cyclist will not mind if you use a bit of his lane to pass (most of them drive cars, too, and understand), but they are not required to yield it to you on demand. yes, some riders are careless or rude, but that is no excuse for trying to injure them.

Sure, but if you cannot or will not do the posted speed limit you ARE required to pull over and let traffic pass.

Reading thru this thread ... seems acceptance, tolerance as well as knowledge of the actual laws of the road vary greatly.

Boostdreamer > I hope you are doing okay now.

But how about we just agree to abide by the "Rules of the road and respect each others rights"?
And yes, that means for instance as a bicycle rider I will have to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Rather than coast thru. Then start all over again. Pain in the bumper, but it is what it is..
In my car ... when I do encounter slower traffic ahead. I will have to wait until it safe to pass / overtake a vehicle.
Rather than just blast my horn and expect whatever is in front of me to go ahead and drive into the ditch, so I can be less inconvenienced.

Seems simple enough
Tina

It's simple but people are selfish. They just aren't concerned with anything but their own convenience. It's ridiculous. I see the same thing on the local college campus here. Students on cell phones will just blindly step into crosswalks, talking on their phones, not paying the first bit of attention. Granted, they have the right of way as pedestrians in the crosswalk, but that doesn't matter much if you're dead. Ironically, those same students are probably the ones not paying attention while they're driving, as they blow through the crosswalk not even bothering to look for pedestrians.

If both cyclist hit the car wouldn't they have had to of been riding abreast?

Otherwise one would have hit the car, and the other would have hit the first bicycle.

The driver should have used the 'ol "Dang dog ran in front of me" line. You would think he would be smart enough for that.

Motorcycles are climbing up on my list, especially those jerks with the flashing headlights, one a few months ago had two going back and forth, I pulled over to the side of the road thinking it was a cop coming with emergency lights flashing. These guys are going to cause an accident.

Brad

quote Originally posted by Tina: On guard though. Every single minute.Keeping an eye on anything around me at all times. My assumption when it comes to cars I encounter on the road, ... I am pretty much invisible to them. Any of them. Sad, but it has also kept me out of trouble in past years. Tina

That is very true. I don't know how many times I have nearly been taken out by cars in various situations such as:

Car/truck pulls just ahead of me then makes a right hand turn. .
Riding along a car/truck turns left in front of me.
Riding down a residenttial street a car/truck backs out of the driveway and nearly takes me out because the driver didn't see me in the bicycle lane.
Riding down the road a car/truck creeps out into a busy street blocking the bicycle lane just as I'm approaching.
Approaching an intersection I intend to go straight and the car in the right lane decides to turn right and does a lane change into the right hand turn lane only I'm in the way. So they change lanes while I do a panick stop to avoid getting side swiped.
Then there are the nice people who have their dogs out without a leash. Most dogs will just chase me. I have had a couple bite my leg. Of course the owners are either not around or they think it is the funniest thing in the world that their dog is biting a guy on a bicycle.


I don't ride much anymore. Too many idiot drivers on the road. At least if I get hit in my car I have a steel cage around me.

I mountain bike mostly, and honestly, as crazy of trails as I ride, I'm more scared to ride roads. I used to commute into college and last winter crossing a bridge late in the season someone decided to cut me off to make a right turn. (3 way stop intersection, I wasn't required to stop, so I wasn't at fault) I had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting the car, hit black ice and crashed. Car kept driving, and a UPS driver at the intersection actually pointed and laughed at me.

In an ideal world cyclists would respect traffic laws like cars, and in turn would get treated the same as cars. Unfortunately with as much hostility as their is towards cyclists, its a fight just to not get run off the road.

quote Originally posted by onesexyfiero: I mountain bike mostly, and honestly, as crazy of trails as I ride, I'm more scared to ride roads. I used to commute into college and last winter crossing a bridge late in the season someone decided to cut me off to make a right turn. (3 way stop intersection, I wasn't required to stop, so I wasn't at fault) I had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting the car, hit black ice and crashed. Car kept driving, and a UPS driver at the intersection actually pointed and laughed at me. In an ideal world cyclists would respect traffic laws like cars, and in turn would get treated the same as cars. Unfortunately with as much hostility as their is towards cyclists, its a fight just to not get run off the road.

Why were you not required to stop?

The reason you see so much hostility is because so many cyclists ***** and moan about not being treated as equals on the road, and then want to be able to ignore traffic signals and such when they have the opportunity.

quote Originally posted by onesexyfiero: (3 way stop intersection, I wasn't required to stop, so I wasn't at fault) .

Traffic Laws Apply to Bicycles
Every person riding a bicycle has the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as persons driving cars. Every person riding a bicycle shall have all of the rights and be subject to the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under the rules of the road. (RSA 265:143)

http://www.nh.gov/hsafety/hsbicyc.html

Jake, your Avatar is weirding me out.

LOL

Brad

That wasn't clear. It's a 4 way intersection, 3 way stop, meaning all vehicles (bikes as well) do not have to stop if they are coming from this one particular direction.

quote Originally posted by SGS: Why were you not required to stop? The reason you see so much hostility is because so many cyclists ***** and moan about not being treated as equals on the road, and then want to be able to ignore traffic signals and such when they have the opportunity.

That is not the real reason and everyone knows it. People hate cyclists because they don't like to slow down and wait for a safe opportunity to pass. It is the same reason why people get pissed off at slow drivers in the left lane, and get pissed when they get stuck behind a bus. It is road rage, plain and simple. Because that ******* cyclist was on the road you go to where you were going 30 seconds later. For that sin, it is justified to assault any random cyclist according to half the posters in this thread.

Well I for one do follow traffic laws for cars when I'm on a bike. It's only fair. My point is that has no effect on how I'm treated. I've had some pretty nasty crashes mountain biking, including a broken femur which had me on crutches for 3 months. I'm still more on edge riding roads then trails. People actually develop this feeling that you don't belong on the road, and that someone justified them trying to kill you. Ironically these people who think you don't belong on roads with cars are the first to reference the laws which say bikes are legally vehicles. Go figure. I'll stick to the trails.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: They don't want to hear that. You were on a bicycle so you were automatically wrong. If that truck ran you over and you were left dying in the street it would have served you right according the attitudes of half the posters in this thread.

It's amazing the emotion that comes up in the cyclist/motorist debate...

But what most cyclists don't want to admit is that as surface streets become more and more congested, they are presenting an increasing hazard, both to themselves and others. In a resdential area where the speed limit is 25, it's not really a problem. It is a problem on a busy main street where the speed limit is 40 or 45. A whole lot of 3000 pound cars traveling 40 mph don't mix well with 250 pounds of bike and rider moving at 20 mph.

Issues I've had, including the one I mentioned above, have been in residential neighborhoods, and not on busy roads. I know I personally try to avoid main roads. If there is a situation with a lot of people commuting on a busy road, then its the responsibility of the city to accommodate riders with a bike lane, makes things better and safer for everyone.

quote Originally posted by onesexyfiero: Well I for one do follow traffic laws for cars when I'm on a bike. It's only fair. My point is that has no effect on how I'm treated. I've had some pretty nasty crashes mountain biking, including a broken femur which had me on crutches for 3 months. I'm still more on edge riding roads then trails. People actually develop this feeling that you don't belong on the road, and that someone justified them trying to kill you. Ironically these people who think you don't belong on roads with cars are the first to reference the laws which say bikes are legally vehicles. Go figure. I'll stick to the trails.

It's real simple - if you want to ride on the street, then you damn well better be abiding by the same laws as motor vehicles on the street.
There's also the irony of cyclists who bemoan motorists not sharing the road, then the cyclists roll through stop signs or ignore stop lights - because they're just on a bike. They'll go through a crosswalk with pedestrian traffic when the light's red, then flip you off for not sharing the road when the light's green.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: That is not the real reason and everyone knows it. People hate cyclists because they don't like to slow down and wait for a safe opportunity to pass. It is the same reason why people get pissed off at slow drivers in the left lane, and get pissed when they get stuck behind a bus. It is road rage, plain and simple. Because that ******* cyclist was on the road you go to where you were going 30 seconds later. For that sin, it is justified to assault any random cyclist according to half the posters in this thread.

I am apparently not seeing what you are seeing, and those guys "crawling" in the left lane are breaking the law. It should be legal to shoot them with a blow dart filled with the spit from a rare Himalayan Spotted Tree Frog.

I don't get pissed off getting behind a bus, I do work at getting around it, and I try to plan to not be in the same lane as the bus.

I'm against the Bicycles, and motorcycles that seem to think the laws do not apply to them, and then later on complain that "nobody pays attention to them", and "everyone puts them in danger." I see it happen, even out here in the country. I'd venture to say that at least 80% of the time the bikes put themselves in the danger.

Brad

I personally don't have an issue with bikes on the road, as long as they are following traffic laws.

It's kinda like the college campus crosswalk situation I mentioned earlier. Not only to people blindly step into the crosswalk without looking, many just step into the street, NOT in a crosswalk without looking. You can't go 20 yards without finding a crosswalk, so not being in one is just lazy. If you're not in a crosswalk, YOU'RE breaking the law.

And although I won't mow you down, I promise I WILL scare the hell out of you and make your life flash right in front of your eyes if you're not paying attention and decide to jaywalk when crosswalks are everywhere at your disposal. I have done it before.

As far as bikes and motorcycles, I do my best to watch out for them. But as riders, it's your ass on the line, so you have to be watching out for yourself. The lug nut law is at work here.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: I am apparently not seeing what you are seeing, and those guys "crawling" in the left lane are breaking the law. It should be legal to shoot them with a blow dart filled with the spit from a rare Himalayan Spotted Tree Frog. I don't get pissed off getting behind a bus, I do work at getting around it, and I try to plan to not be in the same lane as the bus. I'm against the Bicycles, and motorcycles that seem to think the laws do not apply to them, and then later on complain that "nobody pays attention to them", and "everyone puts them in danger." I see it happen, even out here in the country. I'd venture to say that at least 80% of the time the bikes put themselves in the danger. Brad

Then please tell me what laws the bicycle riders in the story broke to warrent this comment?

quote The driver should have used the 'ol "Dang dog ran in front of me" line. You would think he would be smart enough for that.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Then please tell me what laws the bicycle riders in the story broke to warrent this comment? [QUOTE] The driver should have used the 'ol "Dang dog ran in front of me" line. You would think he would be smart enough for that.

[/QUOTE]

That was my take on the driver. Even if I had been stupid enough (and yes I believe the driver was wrong, and stupid) to do something like this in the pure heat of the moment, I would have at least claimed that I was avoiding something. He's a doctor, you would expect that even if he did not have the intelligence to avoid this situation he would have the sense to get out if it.

Brad

I think everyone agrees cyclists should follow the laws when they ride on roads. I think the real danger is when people misdirect their aggression. I agree many cyclists do some pretty ignorant and dangerous things on the roads, which they have no right to do. What I do see, as in the case that started this thread, is people taking out their anger about those who don't obey the laws on people that do. People give me the finger, honk, swerve at me, for absolutely no reason at all when I'm riding down the road as far to the right as I can. I don't think any cyclist should be mistreated like that for the simple reason that some people don't like cyclists. I don't care for opera but you don't see me going on some self-righteous vigilante quest to mow down a fat woman in a viking helmet.

But if a fat woman in a viking helmet were to be walking in the bike lane, obstructing your passage, then what would you do?

While i do think what the guy did was way over the top, Bike riders do need to be a bit more careful on the road. I have come up behind some that ride right in the middle of the street knowing your back there trying to get by them. I have no problem sharing the road but the road was made for cars Bike riders are just geust's in a sence.

quote Originally posted by SGS: But if a fat woman in a viking helmet were to be walking in the bike lane, obstructing your passage, then what would you do?

wouldn't matter if she fit in the bike lane. But here in Florida it would probably cause a 4 hour delay.