Let's say the Democrats put this abomination in place; should Republicans gain a supermajority in both houses due to a pissed off electorate, could they repeal it? Like Prohibition?

While it's technically possible, it's also technically possible to repeal Social Security, Medicare, and most other entitlement programs. However, once enough people begin drinking the kool-aide, it's almost impossible to get them off.....

Possible, not probable unless there is extreme violence like after prohibition was put in place. We are screwed. We are getting raped. Like any rapist once they have had a taste of their first victim, they can't stop. We are too weak to stop it. Most people are just going to lay there and take it up the rear like a good victim.

Jim

Not neccessarily Jim, since coverage won't start I believe till 2014, according to the news articles I have read. It's so expensive, that it is by neccessity--front loaded-- by being taxed on it for a # of years before it actually is implemented.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-20-2009).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Not neccessarily Jim, since coverage won't start I believe till 2014, according to the news articles I have read. It's so expensive, that it is by neccessity--front loaded-- by being taxed on it for a # of years before it actually is implemented.

I think I'll go buy a car today. The dealers have a new program. I can pay on the car for the next five years and I get nothing. I'll come back after five years and pick out that new SUV I wanted, and they'll tell me because of rationing they only have Smart 4 2's left. Oh and BTW, I still owe another 5 years of payments.

I don't care how far in advance they tax us the expense will catch up, and pass the revenue. This is also just another way to fix the books. The democraps come out and say this bill will reduce the deficit. Only in the next 3 years, and that's only because the spending hasn't begun yet. Liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars, liars.

Yes, he lied, they all lied.

Bastard, theif, democrats! I have wrote and called and I feel it's like talking to a wall. Both my senators and my districts rep are democraps. I will say in fairness, that Glenn Nye, my house rep, voted against the health care bill, in the house. These guys know people like me will not vote for them in the next election, so why listen to me? These bastards are going to vote on this at 1 AM in the morning. 1AM! What more can I do to help wake people up? They are blind to what is really happening, and to lazy to do anything if they do realize. In all seriousness, I cried this morning when I heard the last democrap had fell in line. My country is being destroyed before my eyes, and I feel helpless. Goodbye America, it was nice knowing ya.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 12-20-2009).]

Any or all laws, regulations can be changed by a stroke of a pen. Prohibition was an amendment to the constitution and require a 2/3 majority of the states for passage or repeal. The big problem with the Obama care is that the government starts collecting funding for three years prior to Obama care going into effect. So there will be a big bag of money for our dear elected officials to get their hands on to spend for their pet projects. The money will be spent before Obama care goes into effect.

Just like social security, there was so much money in the the SS bag in the 70s, that congress used that money for their projects, leaving behind an IOU, which cannot be paid back unless more money is collected from the FICA tax base. There was so much money that congress passed new laws spending the money for SS increases, buying the votes of the senior citizens. Also adding people for social security benefits who never paid into the system.

Those that did this are no longer in office as this was done during the Nixon/Carter years. Once these benefits were granted, no elected official will take that away as it would be a death wish for them, whose only job is to get re-elected. That is why SS will be bankrupt soon and the only way to get out of the mess is increase FICA witholding. The 7.5% the working stiff pays in along with the 7.5% the employers pays will have to increase, but there is a problem of the 10-13% unemployment and those people are not now contributing to FICA, but they are drawing unemployment, which comes from another rapidly dwindling bag of money that the employer pays to the government. So we are all screwed. Does inflation sound like it has an opportunity to rear its ugly head.

The irony is, with the front loaded taxes, even if the Dems are voted out in 2010 and the GOP wins the White House in 2012, the real impact won't be felt until 2011 or so (safely after the midterm elections). If things start going south then, they'll just blame it on poor GOP management. Kind of like how they're blaming everything Obama is currently doing on Bush.

http://www.google.com/hoste...ayEgs3rmaAwD9CNGMD01

WASHINGTON — The little town of Libby, Mont., isn't mentioned by name in the Senate's mammoth health care bill, but its 2,900 citizens are big winners in the legislation, thanks to the influence of Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont.

After pushing for years for help for residents, many of whom suffer from asbestos-related illnesses from a now-closed mineral mining operation, Baucus inserted language in a package of last-minute amendments that grants them access to Medicare benefits.

He didn't advertise the change, and it takes a close read of the bill to find it. It's just one example of how the sweeping legislation designed to remake the U.S. health care system and extend coverage to 30 million uninsured Americans also helps and hurts more narrow interests, often thanks to one lawmaker with influence or bargaining power.

Here's a look at some other winners and losers in the latest version of the legislation, which was expected to survive an initial test vote in the Senate around 1 a.m. Monday.

WINNERS

_Cosmetic surgeons, who fended off a 5 percent tax on their procedures.

_Nebraska, Louisiana, Vermont and Massachusetts. These states are getting more federal help with Medicaid than other states. In the case of Nebraska — represented by Sen. Ben Nelson, who's providing the critical 60th vote for the legislation to pass — the federal government is picking up 100 percent of the tab of a planned expansion of the program, in perpetuity. Vermont and Massachusetts get temporary increases in the federal share of their Medicaid tabs. In Louisiana, moderate Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu negotiated $100 million for 2011 before announcing her support for the legislation.

_Beneficiaries of Medicare Advantage plans — the private managed-care plans within Medicare — in Florida. Hundreds of thousands of them will have their benefits grandfathered in thanks to a provision tailored by Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., that also affects a much smaller number of seniors in a few other states.

_Longshoremen. They were added to the list of workers in high-risk professions who are shielded from the full impact of a proposed new tax on high-value insurance plans. (Electrical linemen were already included, along with policemen, firefighters, emergency first responders and workers in construction, mining, forestry, fishing and certain agriculture jobs.)

_Community health centers. They got $10 billion more in the revised bill, thanks to advocacy by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.

_A handful of physician-owned hospitals being built around the country — including one in Bellevue, Neb. — which would be permitted to get referrals from the doctors who own them, avoiding a new ban in the Senate bill that will apply to hospitals built in the future. Without mentioning Nebraska or other states by name, the Senate bill pushes back some legal deadlines by several months, in effect making a few hospitals that are near completion eligible to continue receiving referrals from the doctors who own them. The provision was described by a pair of health industry lobbyists who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to speak freely. Chalk up another win for Nelson.

_AARP, the lobby for elderly people. The new Democratic bill has about $1 billion in extra Medicaid payments to states that provide visiting nurses and other in-home or community services to prevent low-income people from needing to be admitted to hospitals. In House-Senate bargaining, AARP also is expected to win one of their top priorities: a full closing of the so-called "doughnut hole," the gap in Medicare's coverage of prescription drugs.

_Doctors and hospitals in Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming, who will get paid more than providers elsewhere under formulas in the bill.

LOSERS

_Tanning salons, which are getting hit with a 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services, replacing the cosmetic surgery tax.

_Progressives. They had to give up on their long-held dream of a new government-run insurance plan so that Democratic leaders could lock down the necessary votes from moderates.

_People making over $200,000 a year. A proposed 0.5 percent increase in the Medicare payroll tax was bumped up to 0.9 percent in the latest version, putting the tax at 2.35 percent on income over $200,000 a year for individuals, $250,000 for couples.

_Generic drug makers. They fought unsuccessfully to block 12 years of protection that makers of brand-name biotech drugs — expensive pharmaceuticals made from living cells — will get against generic would-be competitors.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-21-2009).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: WASHINGTON — The little town of Libby, Mont., isn't mentioned by name in the Senate's mammoth health care bill, but its 2,900 citizens are big winners in the legislation, thanks to the influence of Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont. After pushing for years for help for residents, many of whom suffer from asbestos-related illnesses from a now-closed mineral mining operation, Baucus inserted language in a package of last-minute amendments that grants them access to Medicare benefits. He didn't advertise the change, and it takes a close read of the bill to find it. It's just one example of how the sweeping legislation designed to remake the U.S. health care system and extend coverage to 30 million uninsured Americans also helps and hurts more narrow interests, often thanks to one lawmaker with influence or bargaining power. Here's a look at some other winners and losers in the latest version of the legislation, which was expected to survive an initial test vote in the Senate around 1 a.m. Monday. WINNERS _Cosmetic surgeons, who fended off a 5 percent tax on their procedures. _Nebraska, Louisiana, Vermont and Massachusetts. These states are getting more federal help with Medicaid than other states. In the case of Nebraska — represented by Sen. Ben Nelson, who's providing the critical 60th vote for the legislation to pass — the federal government is picking up 100 percent of the tab of a planned expansion of the program, in perpetuity. Vermont and Massachusetts get temporary increases in the federal share of their Medicaid tabs. In Louisiana, moderate Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu negotiated $100 million for 2011 before announcing her support for the legislation. _Beneficiaries of Medicare Advantage plans — the private managed-care plans within Medicare — in Florida. Hundreds of thousands of them will have their benefits grandfathered in thanks to a provision tailored by Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., that also affects a much smaller number of seniors in a few other states. _Longshoremen. They were added to the list of workers in high-risk professions who are shielded from the full impact of a proposed new tax on high-value insurance plans. (Electrical linemen were already included, along with policemen, firefighters, emergency first responders and workers in construction, mining, forestry, fishing and certain agriculture jobs.) _Community health centers. They got $10 billion more in the revised bill, thanks to advocacy by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt. _A handful of physician-owned hospitals being built around the country — including one in Bellevue, Neb. — which would be permitted to get referrals from the doctors who own them, avoiding a new ban in the Senate bill that will apply to hospitals built in the future. Without mentioning Nebraska or other states by name, the Senate bill pushes back some legal deadlines by several months, in effect making a few hospitals that are near completion eligible to continue receiving referrals from the doctors who own them. The provision was described by a pair of health industry lobbyists who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to speak freely. Chalk up another win for Nelson. _AARP, the lobby for elderly people. The new Democratic bill has about $1 billion in extra Medicaid payments to states that provide visiting nurses and other in-home or community services to prevent low-income people from needing to be admitted to hospitals. In House-Senate bargaining, AARP also is expected to win one of their top priorities: a full closing of the so-called "doughnut hole," the gap in Medicare's coverage of prescription drugs. _Doctors and hospitals in Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming, who will get paid more than providers elsewhere under formulas in the bill. LOSERS _Tanning salons, which are getting hit with a 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services, replacing the cosmetic surgery tax. _Progressives. They had to give up on their long-held dream of a new government-run insurance plan so that Democratic leaders could lock down the necessary votes from moderates. _People making over $200,000 a year. A proposed 0.5 percent increase in the Medicare payroll tax was bumped up to 0.9 percent in the latest version, putting the tax at 2.35 percent on income over $200,000 a year for individuals, $250,000 for couples. _Generic drug makers. They fought unsuccessfully to block 12 years of protection that makers of brand-name biotech drugs — expensive pharmaceuticals made from living cells — will get against generic would-be competitors. _Every American, whether they realize it or not.

I made a little addition to the loser column for you.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 12-20-2009).]

and ANOTHER Democrat gets a buy-out!

Nelson gets some goodies. Was he REALLY all that upset over the abortion issue...or was he just holding out the trick-or-treat bag?

quote The new bill has the federal government permanently paying 100 percent of the cost to expand Medicaid in Nebraska, while other states will pay 2.2 percent of the price to expand the program to millions of uninsured Americans.

http://www.politicsdaily.co...-health-care-reform/

As Ronald Reagan once said, "The closest thing to eternity is a government program" They are nearly impossible to repeal once implemented. Our best chance of stopping this is with a massive public outcry in opposition.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: WINNERS Cosmetic surgeons, who fended off a 5 percent tax on their procedures.

Why ? Cosmetic patients are the rich, whom it was said were gonna pay for MD and Neptune ?
I would like to read more of your awareness post Don and I will. No time right now. I gotta take care of myself.
But I do ask why/how cosmetic surgeons and their patients, whom the cost would have been passed down to, staved off paying their fair share of the theft from the people.