Well, before my daughter was born, I had all these extravegant ideas of me running a crazy motor in some 70s car. I had thoughts of upsetting the Earth's rotation with the sheer torque numbers of my engine.

I spent something like 4 grand rebuilding a 1969 Oldsmobile 455 Big Block. It was a full size block and heads that matched all the part numbers as used on a 68 Hurst / Olds (or a 69 Olds 455). The only difference was the valve sizes (which were easily enough drilled for bigger valves since the port sizes were the same).

Anyway... I sold my 81 TransAm which I intended to put the motor in. I then sold my 73 Cutlass which was a backup for that motor.

Now the motor just sits on a stand in my garage looking "cool" but not doing anything.


It's sat like this for about 2 years now, and I haven't turned it over. I tried to move it, and guess what... the crank seems to be seized (the motor was never run).

So... what's the best way to keep this expensive and freshly rebuilt motor from seizing, and well... in the short term from unseizing it now?





Thanks,

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

"Marvel mystery oil poured in the cylinders (or sprayed in) remove the plugs use a big socket on the harmonic balancer bolt and rotate it by hand."

I'm not sure how to get it un-seized, but I can give you a few ideas to keep it un-seized. Put it in a Fiero. I'm not joking. If I had a motor like that and had dropped that much cash into it just sitting around, I would make the mods to get it to fit in the Fiero.

Put it in your fiero.

Buy a cheap Fiero and put it in that. Or the Crown Victoria. Or the VW Transporter

Edit: Darn I was beat.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 12-14-2009).]

Great minds think alike, I was just a millisecond faster. :P

Yeah to "unsieze" it, you just need to lube its moving parts, maybe a few times over a few days, then turn it by hand.

Take it back apart if you think the crank is froze and put some good assembly lune on the mains...

But more likely the rings are just hung up. Usually with a fresh hone the cylinders will hold oil for several years. I would just pour some kinda lube in there (atf, oil, wd,etc) and spin the crank around.

What you want to do when a motor is going to sit like that is spin the crank around a few times every month to keep the rings from sticking

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice.

Yeah, I really love this motor becuase the build was kind of a labor of love... so I haven't been able to convince myself to get rid of it. I figured I would just keep it around and one day see if I can fit it into a project. I would kind of feel bad putting it in my Fiero since I rebuilt that motor not too long ago.. hah...

I'm going to take the plugs out and dump some marvel in there. So I guess every couple of months I just rotate it.

Realistically, if this motor sits in my garage for the next 5-6 years... never having been broken in. Will this cause any kind of long-term problems for this engine?
Thanks,

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Stupid question, did you take the plugs out before you tried to turn it? A lot of engines can't be turned by hand with the plugs in.

if you have no current need for it, buy a gasket set, and take it apart, inspect, and put it back together
this way you can see if the piston walls are even worth trying to save

Wait, the spark plug wires go through the valve covers? That's a nice touch. Wonder If I can do that with Fiero Valve covers...

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Stupid question, did you take the plugs out before you tried to turn it? A lot of engines can't be turned by hand with the plugs in.

No, I didn't... I guess that would make sense? I mean, the compression is at 10.25:1 so I guess that would make sense... I was just nervous applying too much pressure with the breaker bar because I didn't want to snap the crank bolt off...

**** , I'll try that...

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: if you have no current need for it, buy a gasket set, and take it apart, inspect, and put it back together this way you can see if the piston walls are even worth trying to save

Wow, really? Damn... I don't think it would be that bad... ? The thing has been indoors in the garage for 2 years since being rebuilt.

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Wait, the spark plug wires go through the valve covers? That's a nice touch. Wonder If I can do that with Fiero Valve covers...

Yeah, back in the 50s, designers put a lot of effort in designing the look of an engine. The original Oldsmobile OHV V8 in 55 or whatever? Used these things which they call "wire looms". But it's basically a bracket that bolts onto the valve cover of the original mid 50s valve covers for the small block Oldsmobile V8.

I bought reproduction ones from a place called "Shiney-Hiney". I then also bought their lettering kit. It's meant for a SBO, but I tack welded stainless nuts to the top of these Oldsmobile big block valve covers. It then drops right in, and I use acorn nuts to affix them. It looks really cool, but I'm not sure yet if there will be any issue with plug shielding or whatever. The plug wires are 8.8mm, but honestly... by the time I actually end up using this motor, I'll probably have to replace them anyway.


I tried to make it very obvious the motor was a big block Oldsmobile (even painted it in the 68/69 Hurst Olds big block engine RED that it originally came with), but wanted to dress it up and make it look a bit more traditional.

I'm still unsure what I want to eventually put this in, but I don't want to take on another project.


I would love to have a 1976-1977 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ, and this would just drop RIGHT in...

Or I might build myself some kind of early 50s Oldsmobile... like a 1952 Coupe, and then drop this in...

I don't really have the time either way, and really shouldn't be spending that kind of money anyway in this economy.

But something to think about in case one day the right body comes my way...


EDIT: this is the company:

[/img]http://www.shiny-hiney.com/[/img]


They make a lot of "period" reproduction engine items like the very rare "star wars" air intake cleaner for the Buicks... and the valve covers:



They don't sell anything for BBO, but it's not hard to take the wire loom and just tack weld some HF-Tools nuts onto the topside of any valve cover (you just want to measure many many times so you make sure you get it right before you weld).

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-14-2009).]

Old 392 and back Hemi engines COMPLETLY enclosed the plug wires...none to be seen except right at the distributor.

Thats a nice looking engine, look for an 80s Cutlass or Monte Carlo to drop it in. I see a lot of nice ones around here for $2000-3000 dollars. Pour the cylinder oil in it and let it set for a few days. Id use the special tool to turn it by the flywheel rather than the balancer myself. Looks like a big spanner wrench and grips the flywheel teeth. And I agree about maybe not turning by hand. If its got something like 11:1 compression (not uncommon), it may not turn at all without a starter with the plugs in it.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Wow, really? Damn... I don't think it would be that bad... ? The thing has been indoors in the garage for 2 years since being rebuilt.

I doubt it as well. but - there are not many things which would seize a sitting motor - the usual being ring rust to cyl walls or bound crank. being it was never run, I'd expect the assembly lube is still on the crank bearings. and, its' not alot of work, and I myself find it enjoyable to work on a clean fresh motor.

quote Originally posted by htexans1: "Marvel mystery oil poured in the cylinders (or sprayed in) remove the plugs use a big socket on the harmonic balancer bolt and rotate it by hand."

The exact prociedure.
At least, tha's how it was done back in the day.
I would only add to let it soak for a good while before using the breakerbar on the crank bolt.

Why not pre-lub it? Cant you run the oil pump and circulate the oil?
I would find something to put it in, something small with large rear wheels. Like a Gremlin lol You could call it BOG Big Olds Gremlin.

As stated above i would just turn the oil pump and lube it up.

You can always just give it to me .

In before Mary Jane.

Brad

Pull the plugs, throw a spoon of reg oil in and see what happens. Then, try the marvins if it still won't budge.
I had a fresh rebuild engine in my garage for quite a few years and I'd (at least) yearly pour a squirt of engine oil in the plug holes, and rotate the crank. It was fine when finally run. I pulled the pan and the bores looked brand new. Just gotta set a reminder in the old Blackberry to do it yearly (at least)and you'd be fine. Doesn't seem like it'd be siezed if it just say a year.. especially if it was in a garage. (opinion). I have an old fiero engine that was sitting in the garage for like 6+ years and it stil rotates.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: As stated above i would just turn the oil pump and lube it up. Brad

I don't believe that will work.
I think the rings have attached themselves to the cylinders.
I don't believe you will be able to get the oil where you need it by low-speed oil-pumping.

Crack open the plugs, liquid-lube in the hole, let set, then break loose.
Even if you took the engine apart, you would still have to break the rings loose from the cylinder walls with something like WD-40 & tapping the pistons out with a wooden hammer-handle.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I don't believe that will work. I think the rings have attached themselves to the cylinders. I don't believe you will be able to get the oil where you need it by low-speed oil-pumping. Crack open the plugs, liquid-lube in the hole, let set, then break loose. Even if you took the engine apart, you would still have to break the rings loose from the cylinder walls with something like WD-40 & tapping the pistons out with a wooden hammer-handle.

I think your right, but I wonder if it's actually seized, and not just high compression.

Brad

quote Originally posted by smartaxel: I have an old fiero engine that was sitting in the garage for like 6+ years and it stil rotates.

Old engine's metal gets impregnated with oil.
The newly cut metals likes to get bonded together due to slight moisture variations from the metal expanding & contracting slightly.
I hesitate to call it rust, but that is what it will become, if left alone.
Old engines "sweat" oil under these same conditions.

check your bores for rust both over and under the pistons. We have a Farmall 400 (tractor) with an engine that is rusted together from sitting.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Realistically, if this motor sits in my garage for the next 5-6 years... never having been broken in. Will this cause any kind of long-term problems for this engine? Thanks,

No. as long as you keep moisture away from it, keep the parts lubed, and from time to time spin it manually [use a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt] to keep it from seezing up.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Id use the special tool to turn it by the flywheel rather than the balancer myself. Looks like a big spanner wrench and grips the flywheel teeth.

That's the correct way to do it. With a flywheel wrench.

Thanks for the tip! see you learn something everyday

and here I am turning it over from the wrong side of the engine. LOL

quote Originally posted by htexans1: No. as long as you keep moisture away from it, keep the parts lubed, and from time to time spin it manually [use a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt] to keep it from seezing up.

I disagree, however slightly.
Even semi-long-term storage can harden and/or slightly deform rubber engine seals, which can lead to premature failure once the engine gets a handfull of miles under her.
She'll leak well before her time, if stored too long.

Unless the new seals are different then they were 15 years ago......................

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-14-2009).]

Take off the heads and bash the cylinders with a rubber mallet. lol it worked for me.

After you've poured your lubricant in, let it sit for 24 hrs. When you get ready to try to free it up--easy does it, and you want to rock it a bit at a time--not force it all the way thru a complete revolution. Rotate a few degrees, then back it up just a tad before rotating fwd again.
Theorectically this will allow most or @ least some of the particles of rust to break loose instead of being forced into the ring grooves or breaking a ring. I've freed up a lot of seized engines this way--very large and not so large. Just rock it back and forth a little at a time--never getting too much torque involved. I freed up an engine from a '53 Studebaker Champion that had sat in my father's garage from 1956 till 2008 with no problems in exactly this manner. It started and ran fine afterwards.

Don’t take this wrong.

But you did pre-lube when you built this right?

Not just the crank but the cylinder walls before putting it together.

Anytime an engine is put away for any long term storage I have always poured at least a tablespoon of motor oil into each sparkplug hole and given the motor a few turns.

Now I have 3 vehicles with running engines out back. One is also an olds rocket V8, 350. They will all turn over and start even after years of storage.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Don’t take this wrong. But you did pre-lube when you built this right? Not just the crank but the cylinder walls before putting it together. Anytime an engine is put away for any long term storage I have always poured at least a tablespoon of motor oil into each sparkplug hole and given the motor a few turns. Now I have 3 vehicles with running engines out back. One is also an olds rocket V8, 350. They will all turn over and start even after years of storage. Steve

Well, if what you mean by prelube is to put engine assembly lube on EVERYTHING and literally soak every damn think in oil, then yes...

I didn't assembl the long block. I was too chicken because I wanted it to be done right. I know they DID pre-pump it (the thing with the drill attachment on the oil pump).

Yeah, I'm going to try to check it out tomorrow night when I get home. I'm hoping everything is good...

I'll post back.
Thanks for the advice everyone.

For what it's worth, I think this engine might be a little scary in Fiero. I know there's a lot of big motors in Fieros... but this has about 600 foot pounds of torque RIGHT off idle... I just don't see how an Olds 455 big block powered Fiero could be good for anyone. Nothing good could come from it... !!!

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

If the engine was properly built and never run, it is not "seized". It will stay "preserved" for years in a good environment.

Are you sure the flywheel side is free to rotate?

Are the valves adjustable or are they all solid mounted on a shaft?

If it was pre-oiled with a drill on the oil pump, you may have to loosen up the rocker arms and allow the oil in the lifters to bleed down as they are probably liquid locked from being pre-oiled and then never run. It depends on the engine but I have run across that a few times over the years. Same thing happens sometimes if you reuse lifters.

Just looked a little closer at that picture you posted, isn’t that a turbo 350 or 400 on the floor? Dialup takes forever to load pictures.

It is also the type that you can take the tail shaft off and use on a four-wheel drive if I am not mistaken.

I have been known to be wrong, once, I think.


If so that trany is worth some cash, to people up here who have older trucks any way.

Want to sell it?

As others have said pull the plugs, then try to turn it over. If that fails then try the oil trick. It has worked for me on several seized motors, from 4 cylinders to big block V8’s.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: If the engine was properly built and never run, it is not "seized". It will stay "preserved" for years in a good environment. Are you sure the flywheel side is free to rotate? Are the valves adjustable or are they all solid mounted on a shaft? If it was pre-oiled with a drill on the oil pump, you may have to loosen up the rocker arms and allow the oil in the lifters to bleed down as they are probably liquid locked from being pre-oiled and then never run. It depends on the engine but I have run across that a few times over the years. Same thing happens sometimes if you reuse lifters.

Well, you bring up a good point, hah... it's bolted into the back, but not by the flywheel obviously. But I think I still may get a flywheel tool like you guys have mentioned. I'm going to check it out this weekend.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Just looked a little closer at that picture you posted, isn’t that a turbo 350 or 400 on the floor? Dialup takes forever to load pictures. It is also the type that you can take the tail shaft off and use on a four-wheel drive if I am not mistaken. I have been known to be wrong, once, I think. If so that trany is worth some cash, to people up here who have older trucks any way. Want to sell it? As others have said pull the plugs, then try to turn it over. If that fails then try the oil trick. It has worked for me on several seized motors, from 4 cylinders to big block V8’s. Steve

Yes, it sure is! Although I had no idea that it was rare? It came from a 1969 Oldsmobile Delta-88 Royale w/ the towing package (has a higher 1st gear ratio).

It's a Turbo-400, and my thought is to rebuild it at some point. I've been watching a few videos, so I think I'm going to try rebuilding it myself. I know there are some basic tools I need, but I figured, what's the worst that happens? I take it into a shop and they fix it? I've got a repair manual for it... so we'll see.

I also have all the hardware from a Switch-Pitch. I have the pump and valve body as well as the solenoid and other stuff. The idea seemed pretty cool and they make new torque converters with variable "stators" (I guess is the term?).


Yeah, I'm going to mess with it this weekend and try to clean up the garage. It's way messier now than in that picture.. I have all kinds of crap on the floor. Almost looks like the garage owned by a hoarder (except it's all car parts).

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Napa has the best price on rebuild kits for that trany. I bought one this summer for my turbo 350 in my plow truck. I think the master kit was like $125. If you are going to rebuild it get the kit soon before prices go up.

Good luck with the motor, if it was rebuilt professionally I am sure you don't have a problem except to much compression. Like I said just pull the plugs and turn the balancer bolt.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I doubt it's seized. More likely just the ring to cylinder mating area has squished the oil out, and you have to overcome the initial friction of new rings to newly honed cylinder walls. New engines are harder to turn over until the rings are 'seated' anyway. Put some sort of a flywheel on there, and a flywheel 'wrench' to properly grab it, and turn it over. It'll be difficult. It's 8 cylinders of big displacement manly engine. It doesn't look like it has been in a damp environment with the plugs out, so IMHO you have no worries....

Pfft. Put it in MY Fiero....