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What is with the new trend on push button start vehicles??? by 82-T/A [At Work]
Started on: 12-11-2009 01:09 PM
Replies: 28
Last post by: css9450 on 12-11-2009 09:34 PM
82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
If you look at almost all of the luxury cars that are advertised today, they almost always come with a push button start? And what's funny is that they really emphesize this on all of the commercials too.

What am I missing? What is so spectacular about having a button to start your car rather than a positional switch on an ignition lock???

I've even heard people brag about having it...
I think it's especially funny though because I've got one in my 1973 Volkswagen Bus.

Long story short, I replaced the ignition lock on my VW Bus, only to have the new switch fail literally on the third turn. It was just a cheap faulty part. It took combined an entire day to replace the lock. You have to fashion a coat hanger, twist it around and stick it into a very small hole in the back of the steering column which then is used to depress a spring that's under HEAVY pressure that then allows you to remove the ignition lock by sliding it out. The dealerships of course had a fancy tool (which no one has anymore). So after spending almost a full day getting it out, I decided to just install a momentary switch.

The below picture was taken a while ago. I had just installed my new replacement dash (perfect). I've since finished a complete re-wiring of the system, replaced the steering wheel, repainted all the areas that look faded, etc. Only thing left is to reupholster the seats (which I haven't done yet).


You can see the momentary switch just to the RIGHT of the headlight switch on the left side of the dash, kind of hidden by the steering wheel.


I guess this makes my old Bus a luxury car...



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Todd,
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2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
Might be some easier way to disable? Such as shut down your vehicle remotely? Big bro stuff?
Otherwise I think it is basically a fad. I don't really know why ignitions went from dash to column and back to dash again either.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
Lazy people. People just too lazy to put their hand up to the dash. One thing that would be nice and I dont know if current ones do it or not...is to turn the car off if you take the fob chip farther than say 50' away. Stop a carjacking in a minute.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgDirect Link to This Post
Remember when they were on the floorboard in trucks?
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D B CooperSend a Private Message to D B CooperDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Lazy people. People just too lazy to put their hand up to the dash. One thing that would be nice and I dont know if current ones do it or not...is to turn the car off if you take the fob chip farther than say 50' away. Stop a carjacking in a minute.


I think Toyota was working on something like that... when the car can't 'see' the key fob, the ecu commands the throttle plate to fully open position !

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 12-11-2009).]

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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for frontal lobeSend a Private Message to frontal lobeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I don't really know why ignitions went from dash to column and back to dash again either.



I kind of liked it on the dash. But with the key, not pushing a button. But I think the button thing is that you don't have to get anything out of your pocket and hold it in your hand. The "key fob" is in the car, so just push the button.

While I find that a convenience, it is a MINOR convenience to me and wouldn't be worth paying more for.

Power windows and door locks? Now to me that is a MAJOR convenience. And safety issue. Push the fob. Have the door open to get into quickly without fumbling fwith the key? Sure. And since I don't use the air conditioning much, power windows are great to adjust the opening of all 4 windows to get the air flow how I want it.

Push button to start? Nice, but I can get a key out of my pocket.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
I'd rather the car read my mind.

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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by frontal lobe:
Power windows and door locks? Now to me that is a MAJOR convenience. And safety issue. Push the fob. Have the door open to get into quickly without fumbling fwith the key? Sure. And since I don't use the air conditioning much, power windows are great to adjust the opening of all 4 windows to get the air flow how I want it.

.


Well, IMO if ti is a safety issue, there should always be manual windows as a back up, as they fail MUCH less often than power windows.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
LOL. the luxuries I like in a car are power windows and locks for reasons listed already. I also dont like AC. And 2 of my cars are convertibles...who wants AC? My Sebring is lazy enough, one button puts the top and all 4 windows down at once. One of my old '60 Lincoln convertibles automaticly put up the top and windows if water struck a sensor. That was handy.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-11-2009).]

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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
An article:

http://www.edmunds.com/owne.../106651/article.html
Easy In, Easy Out
Push-button keyless start couldn't be simpler. The driver slides behind the wheel, with the key fob in her pocket, briefcase or purse. The car's system recognizes the presence of the fob, and the driver needn't remove it to wake up the engine. All she needs to do to get the motor running is depress the brake pedal, and push a button on the control panel.

Shutting off the engine is just as hassle-free, and is accomplished by merely pressing the start/stop button.

Safe and Sound
Keyless ignition systems contain safeguards to ensure that your car doesn't spring to life at the wrong time. Says Erin Ryder, a product and technology public relations assistant at Mercedes-Benz: "As a security measure, the brake pedal must be depressed with the shift lever in 'Park' for the engine to start." Additionally, the key fob must be in the vehicle to get the motor running.

These systems are designed to deter theft and break-ins. The absence of a metal key makes life a lot harder for car thieves. Offers Ryder: "[Mercedes-Benz has] the industry's first fully electronic ignition key system, [and] there is no metal key that could be illegally copied [copies can only be made at an authorized Mercedes-Benz dealership]. It's nearly impossible to unlock the steering column or start the engine without the owner's remote unit."

And the engine won't respond to a signal from just any old key fob. Dave Buchko, BMW product communications manager, explains: "Each key contains a chip with an ID code that the car must recognize. In addition, there is a random code that each key receives when the engine is shut off. The vehicle will read and match both codes. If the car cannot match the ID code to the last random code sent to the key in question, it won't start."

Keeping You Covered
The fobs that are at the heart of keyless start systems are battery-powered, which begs the question: Could a driver find herself unable to start her car in the event of a dead battery? Not a chance, says Ryder. "The data exchange with the car works even when the battery inside the key is dead, and the car can still be started with the remote unit."

Additionally, many systems are intelligent enough to make lock-outs a thing of the past. Martina Wohlsperger, Audi public relations specialist and press fleet manager, notes: "It's more difficult to lock yourself out of your car or lock keys in the trunk, because the system will sense it and prevent the user from locking them in."

Some keyless ignition systems can even help out with vehicle maintenance and servicing. BMW's system has the capacity to receive service data from the car, which can then be read in the service department without the car being physically present.

Making It Personal
Many keyless start systems are sophisticated enough to make customization a breeze. Says Cadillac STS Product Manager Judy Greig: "The Cadillac STS system has memory capabilities for two separate drivers that allow you to customize your seat settings."

It doesn't end there. Cadillac's system also allows drivers to customize power tilt/telescopic steering wheel position, radio/HVAC settings, outside mirror position and navigation information, along with head-up display and address book information. Drivers are able to recall these settings when they push the engine start button, or when they push the door unlock button on the key fob. Greig adds: "Our system also has seat and steering wheel exit memory, which will move your seat and steering wheel out of the way when exiting the vehicle."

The keyless start systems from Mercedes-Benz and BMW boast similar capability.

Convenience Versus Necessity
It's easy to see why keyless start is a godsend for multitaskers on the go. Some drivers report that keyless start is useful for those who are frequently on a cell phone, and for women with long fingernails.

Steve Mazor, an automotive engineer with the American Automobile Association, thinks keyless start is a feature that many drivers will embrace, and offers this anecdote: "My commute is 70 miles each day. I'm always taking lots of stuff with me. Having that key in your pocket is one less step and makes it easier to handle armloads of stuff."

For drivers with disabilities that impede their ability to grip and turn a key, keyless start becomes more a matter of necessity than convenience. Marcy O'Koon Moss, editor in chief of Arthritis Today, feels that push-button keyless start offers incredible utility for those with arthritis.

"Many people with arthritis have trouble with standard ignitions because of the 'grip-and-turn' movement required," she says. "Gripping the key requires a pinching movement, which is hampered by a lack of finger joint agility and strength, common problems when arthritis affects the hands. The turning motion, however, requires finger grip at the same time the wrist turns, a complex movement that can be very difficult to do if arthritis affects the fingers, wrist, elbow or shoulder joints. What seems to be a simple task for most people is a problem faced many times each day for many people with arthritis."

O'Koon Moss reports that Arthritis Today published a story on arthritis-friendly cars that met with tremendous response. "Would people with arthritis pay more for cars with push-button ignition? Absolutely, though one common theme to the responses we got for our article was that people want arthritis-friendly features at an affordable price," she says. "Where that threshold might be, I can't say. People with arthritis are all around us — one in three is affected by joint pain — so wouldn't you say ergonomic cars are necessities to the majority of Americans?"

Lap of Luxury
Currently, push-button keyless start is available mainly in high-end vehicles, although the technology is starting to creep into many more affordable cars. Here is a list of current makes and models that offer the technology as standard or optional equipment:

Acura - RL
Audi - A6, A8, Q7, S6, S8
Bentley - Continental GT, GTC, Flying Spur
BMW - 3, 5, 6, 7, B7, M5, M6, X5
Cadillac - STS, STS-V, XLR, XLR-V
Cheverolet - Corvette
Infiniti - FX35, FX45, G35, M35, M45
Jaguar - XK
Lexus - ES 350, GS 350, GS 430, IS 250, IS 350, LS 460
Maybach - 57, 62
Mazda - CX-7, CX-9, Mazdaspeed 6, RX-8
Mercedes-Benz - CL, CLK, CLS, E, GL, M, R, S, SL
Mini - Cooper, S
Mitsubishi - Outlander
Nissan - Altima, Altima Hybrid, Maxima, Murano, Sentra, Versa
Suzuki - Grand Vitara, SX4
Toyota - Avalon, Camry, Camry Hybrid, Prius
Volkswagen - Touareg
Volvo - S40, S80, V50

Going Wide
Is keyless start destined to achieve the mainstream popularity of, say, power windows? "Currently, we see the feature as an option that will remain on luxury vehicles and eventually [reach] midlevel luxury cars," Mercedes-Benz's Ryder notes.

Toyota sees things differently, and appears to be thinking seriously about making this feature more widely available throughout its lineup. "It's currently under study to expand this feature to other models," says Toyota Product Communication Administrator Bill Kwong.

Over at BMW, Buchko predicts big things ahead. "With remote locking systems and electronic immobilizers becoming more commonplace, I think you'll see this happening. Sophisticated immobilizing systems make the physical presence of a key, in the traditional sense, redundant."

Many drivers would love to see keyless start become more commonplace. In a recent Inside Line survey, nearly 50 percent of over 3,000 respondents polled picked keyless ignition as the premium feature they'd most like to have on their next vehicle.

--

50% want it? I fall in the other category. But then again I don't buy new cars.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-11-2009).]

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Report this Post12-11-2009 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by D B Cooper:


I think Toyota was working on something like that... when the car can't 'see' the key fob, the ecu commands the throttle plate to fully open position !




I think most cars already have more or less something like that, but just aren't using it in that way. The keys in all of my "modern" cars have transponders in them.

I found it interesting one day that I was UNABLE to lock the door to my car when the keys were still in the car.

For example, in my 2002 Ford Explorer, it won't let me UNLOCK the door from the inside (or outside) if the key isn't INSIDE the car.

This came about because I had closed the door, but left the window open (for whatever reason). I think I was mowing the lawn and just moving the cars around. The key was in my pocket, so I reached in to the car to unlock the door using the power door lock button on the drivers side door, and it wouldn't open. It was really odd to me, so I grabbed the key, held it INSIDE the car, and then was able to unlock the door...


 
quote
Originally posted by frontal lobe:

Power windows and door locks? Now to me that is a MAJOR convenience. And safety issue. Push the fob. Have the door open to get into quickly without fumbling fwith the key? Sure. And since I don't use the air conditioning much, power windows are great to adjust the opening of all 4 windows to get the air flow how I want it.

Push button to start? Nice, but I can get a key out of my pocket.



In my Pontiac Solstice, the ONLY way to unlock the door (without manually pulling up on the knobs) was to use the keyfob. I had power door locks, but there was no power door lock switch on the inside of the car?! So... if I was going to pick someone up, I would literally have to push the door UNLOCK button on the key fob if I wanted to let a person into the passenger side.


Weird...


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2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
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Report this Post12-11-2009 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
Had a buddy with a Fiero, lived in a small town so he didn't lock his car door, he lost the decklid/door key, so he just always used the power deck popper, until his battery died!
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Report this Post12-11-2009 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ghost187xSend a Private Message to ghost187xDirect Link to This Post
i like the push start button. i think its really cool. from what i understand, you still need to put the key inside the ignition in order to drive. i wonder if there's a way to bypass that lol. honda s2000 has em too. the push start button that is.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarDirect Link to This Post
MY 47 Chevy had a floor mounted starter pedal. When I was a kid, my father's 53 (or so) Chevy had a silver button on the dash which he'd
let me push to start the car. Memories of 50-60 years ago.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 02:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D B CooperSend a Private Message to D B CooperDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I think most cars already have more or less something like that, but just aren't using it in that way. The keys in all of my "modern" cars have transponders in them.




Really ? I was just making fun of Toyotas' tendency to go wide open every now and then and slam into things

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 12-11-2009).]

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Report this Post12-11-2009 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
I think it's to give the car a more sporty racey feel. If you jump in a racecar, do you turn the key or push a button?

Personally, when I had my lowered mini truck, I put a push button start in it. I might even do it with my Fiero while doing the engine swap in a year or so.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Old Lar:

MY 47 Chevy had a floor mounted starter pedal. When I was a kid, my father's 53 (or so) Chevy had a silver button on the dash which he'd
let me push to start the car. Memories of 50-60 years ago.


The farm tractors I drove as a kid had push button too. Another comeback I suppose eh?
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Report this Post12-11-2009 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post

2.5

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Member since May 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by Khw:

I think it's to give the car a more sporty racey feel. If you jump in a racecar, do you turn the key or push a button?

Personally, when I had my lowered mini truck, I put a push button start in it. I might even do it with my Fiero while doing the engine swap in a year or so.


What is cool about doing it yourself is you can hide it anywhere
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Report this Post12-11-2009 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroRumorClick Here to visit FieroRumor's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieroRumorDirect Link to This Post
instead of a push button, they should have a small hole where you stick yer finger in, it draws some blood, and then it turns you into a leprechaun.

Push buttons = futuristic.

Wish those people that got their gas pedal stuck knew how to turn the damn thing off...or put it into neutral or something...


My ears do more then hold up my glasses, you know!!!!

rapidly losing sanity.. uh oh
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Report this Post12-11-2009 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroRumor:
rapidly losing sanity.. uh oh


You have RLS too?!
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Report this Post12-11-2009 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
The Infinit \ G37 implementation is sweet. just with the fob on your person anywhere, you just walk up, push the handle button as you pull the handle and its unlocked, slide in ane press the start button. That easy. Same for the trunk, just walk back and press hte button. It will prevent you from locking the fob in the car or trunk unless its in the glove box
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Report this Post12-11-2009 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for User00013170Send a Private Message to User00013170Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

LOL. the luxuries I like in a car are power windows and locks for reasons listed already. I also dont like AC. And 2 of my cars are convertibles...who wants AC? My Sebring is lazy enough, one button puts the top and all 4 windows down at once. One of my old '60 Lincoln convertibles automaticly put up the top and windows if water struck a sensor. That was handy.



i want AC. Summer heat is a killer for me. Power windows and locks are nice, just from a safety standpoint. Leather seats, they seem to last longer.

Defrosters are pretty important, but passenger heat is optional. My grandfather used to have them remove the heat from his cars, thought it was unhealthy. I have heard stories of winter driving with him...
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Report this Post12-11-2009 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Some Challengers and Chargers have it now. (Mine doesn't.)
Even the sparsely optioned ones (like mine) all have the ability to unlock the car, roll down the windows, and pop the trunk, using the fob.
Automatic cars even have remote start.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
Its a smart key system. The car sences when the key is around it and when you get close to it it unlocks the driver door and when your in it you just need the fob in your pocket and a button will start and shut off the car.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
Corvette new fob works that way too, doors and ignition.

Ill disagree with leather. Ive had many with both of them. Cloth holds up much better to me. My 04 magnum with 20,000 miles was starting to look pretty ragged. It was basicly a show car, but they were surface 'creased' or 'cracked all over. On the other hand my 70 Chrysler New Yorker with brocaid cloth is in nearly new condition. My Sebring has suede leather and it looks like it holds up pretty well after 4 years.
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Report this Post12-11-2009 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
In response to the article 2.5 posted, the thing that makes me nervous about this stuff is that cars simply are not infalable... at some point they'll make it so you don't even need a vehicle, just a thumb print identification to start it, which is totally possible with our technology now. The computer i have now has a biometrixs swipe on it. I can't remember the last time I entered in a password, honestly...

It seems to me though, on a car, it's jus another thing to break. For 90% of the drivers on the road, it's just transportation...

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Report this Post12-11-2009 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post

82-T/A [At Work]

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quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Corvette new fob works that way too, doors and ignition.

Ill disagree with leather. Ive had many with both of them. Cloth holds up much better to me. My 04 magnum with 20,000 miles was starting to look pretty ragged. It was basicly a show car, but they were surface 'creased' or 'cracked all over. On the other hand my 70 Chrysler New Yorker with brocaid cloth is in nearly new condition. My Sebring has suede leather and it looks like it holds up pretty well after 4 years.



Whatever happened to good Old 70 vinyl seats? The vinyl never went bad... always looked brand new, and as far as I'm concerned, just as good as leather.

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2.5
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From: Southern MN
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Report this Post12-11-2009 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Whatever happened to good Old 70 vinyl seats? The vinyl never went bad... always looked brand new, and as far as I'm concerned, just as good as leather.



Just as cold in the winter and hot in the summer too. However vinyl did have that distinct odor.
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css9450
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From: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA
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Report this Post12-11-2009 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Direct Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Ill disagree with leather. Ive had many with both of them. Cloth holds up much better to me. My 04 magnum with 20,000 miles was starting to look pretty ragged. It was basicly a show car, but they were surface 'creased' or 'cracked all over. On the other hand my 70 Chrysler New Yorker with brocaid cloth is in nearly new condition.


I agree with Roger (Twice in one week! That's unusual!). I prefer cloth seats.

I understand people think the creases and wear marks on leather give it "character", but I don't buy it. Cloth not only looks better for much longer but its more comfortable year-round.
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