quote Originally posted by blackrams: It is important to note that the picture in question was taken prior to the A/C taking off. The person next to the large guy was asked to take a later flight and given a free trip. If I understood the story correctly. Yes, being that size would pose a safety issue during an emergency but, don't let someone of that size be next to the emergency exit. Weight and balance of A/C is critical but, I seriously doubt this gentleman would dramatically effect an A/C of the size shown in the picture.

It's not just sitting by the emergency exit, someone that size could potentially block the aisle for everyone behind him. And if he can't clear the exit when it's his turn, he's now blocking the exit too.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: It is important to note that the picture in question was taken prior to the A/C taking off. The person next to the large guy was asked to take a later flight and given a free trip. If I understood the story correctly. Yes, being that size would pose a safety issue during an emergency but, don't let someone of that size be next to the emergency exit. Weight and balance of A/C is critical but, I seriously doubt this gentleman would dramatically effect an A/C of the size shown in the picture.

That would depend on a lot of things. He appears to be near the rear of the plane where the problem would be greatly magnified since the center of gravity is generally about the middle of the wings. The same weight on the wings would cause different reaction from him sitting in the tail. Now if he took 2 seats, and weighed as much as 2 adults, theres no problem. Aviation generally regards 180 pnds as adult average. Of course the smaller the plane, the more its affected. I lost one plane because the 4 guys that rented the 6 seat airplane all packed their golf clubs in the baggage compt. They crashed into trees when they ran out of room to take off due to the extra weight and it being in the rear. I fly 4 seat airplanes that are rated to carry about 700 pnds total. 4 average weight men already push the takeoff limit. One 400 pnd guy limits the plane to one passenger even though it has seats for 4 adults. In another case, I had a group that was down to their so called minium baggage. In order to take off with their baggage, I had to offload 1/2 of my fuel to offset it and they were upset I had to make 2 extra stops along the way to refuel. You cant push safety limits when your lives depend on it. While he may be an exception on this plane, you can look anywhere and see 180 pnds is not the average mans weight now. So if everyone averages 30 pnds overweight and there are 200 people on board can you see a problem here? You just overloaded, and mostly to the tail, over 3 tons. Thats like putting a couple of cars in the tail.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-07-2009).]

quote Originally posted by spark1: Many people are very insensitive about the obese and I admit I once was too. Now I know it is not a simple problem with an easy solution.

A wise, honest person.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-07-2009).]

Whether it is an individual's "fault" or not is irelevant. It is simply not feasible to comprimise the safety of 99 (etc) other people just to meet the needs of one person--that's asking a bit much. Making seats larger is also improbable. It would cut down the # of passengers/trip, thus either reducing revenue or causing everyone else's ticket prices to rise--again, to accomadate just the needs of a single person on that particular aircraft.
Best solution, is to allow the sale of 2 full price seats to that single passenger. That is overall, the best and most fair solution for all involved IMO.

I am, thru no fault of my own, 6'4"+ and have to stoop quite low just to walk down the aisle of most planes, but I do not expect them to increase the overal height of the fuselage just to accomadate my height. That would be completely ridiculous.
It may or may not be the oversize person's fault, but it is no one else's either.

I do have a few questions for those familar with commercial passenger flight.
1. Would the seatbelt fit the guy in the picture--or do they have seat belt extenders?

2. In the event of a crash, would/could the forward inertia of that person's mass/weight cause the seatbelt or seat mountings to fail, slamming his bulk into the seatback in front of him?

3. Would the emergency pneumatic actuated exit slide/chute support his weight?

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-07-2009).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Whether it is an individual's "fault" or not is irelevant. It is simply not feasible to comprimise the safety of 99 (etc) other people just to meet the needs of one person--that's asking a bit much. Making seats larger is also improbable. It would cut down the # of passengers/trip, thus either reducing revenue or causing everyone else's ticket prices to rise--again, to accomadate just the needs of a single person on that particular aircraft. Best solution, is to allow the sale of 2 full price seats to that single passenger. That is overall, the best and most fair solution for all involved IMO. I am, thru no fault of my own, 6'4"+ and have to stoop quite low just to walk down the aisle of most planes, but I do not expect them to increase the overal height of the fuselage just to accomadate my height. That would be completely ridiculous. It may or may not be the oversize person's fault, but it is no one else's either. I do have a few questions for those familar with commercial passenger flight. 1. Would the seatbelt fit the guy in the picture--or do they have seat belt extenders? 2. In the event of a crash, would/could the forward inertia of that person's mass/weight cause the seatbelt or seat mountings to fail, slamming his bulk into the seatback in front of him? 3. Would the emergency pneumatic actuated exit slide/chute support his weight?

Problem is, it's often not a single person. As the obesity rate increases, it's becoming more and more common to encounter multiple people who are extremely obese. I'm not sure what the answer is, although I agree it would be easiest to sell them two seats (but that still leaves safety questions unanswered).

But I wonder who decides when a person needs two seats. I wouldn't want to be the gate or ticket agent deciding that, because so many people would take offense to being called obese, and would not be happy being forced to buy two seats. I can see the lawsuits now, claiming "emotional distress", "public embarrassment", "harassment", etc.

I guess if that's the route they wish to take, they can take their chances with a jury in civil court. There's plenty of precedent set already. If you can not read the eyechart, you can't drive. If you "Aren't this tall", you can't get on this ride". Automobile manufactorers are not required to make car seats extra wide to fit any person who comes along, nor are they required to make the space between the seat back and the steering wheel extra large. When I go buy a shirt to fit my tall torso, I expect to have to pay more for the XL TALL shirt. When a large person buys pants, he doesn't expect every walmart in the country to accomodate him with XXXXLg pants. Nor, does he expect to be able to get by with the same price as a person wearing a 36/33 pair of jeans.

It's up to both sides to make a bit of accomodation--with emphasis on "Both". The person ahs to realize they have a problem with their size, and deal with it, just as I do regarding my height--and my age. There are things I no longer attempt, simply because I am older, and I know not to try, because among other things, it puts those around me in danger.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-07-2009).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: FWIW, I have Hashimoto's Hypothyroidism. Basically my immune system attacks my thyroid. I was diagnosed when I was 12, and have been on medication since then. Because it was diagnosed relatively late in my growth, I am shorter than what I should be. However, I have never been "fat". I think I'm 135lbs and 5'7 currently.

My wife has the same condition. Her thyroid is still fluctuating between hyper and hypo. Poor gal, very uncomfortable and the military docs are ignorant as hell about it.

NSFW language

This was a topic on The Young Turks and a poll is being taken.

http://www.youtube.com/user...s#p/u/19/z74EqQfWMUA

I'll agree with Ana Kasparian (she's so hot) that either you fit into the seat or you buy another seat.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: The person ahs to realize they have a problem with their size, and deal with it,

Many people will not admit that they have a problem, at least in my experience. That's not just obesity, it's true for pretty much any problem. People lie best to themselves.

Yep--denial denial denial-- to the very end.

quote Originally posted by GT86: Problem is, it's often not a single person. As the obesity rate increases, it's becoming more and more common to encounter multiple people who are extremely obese. I'm not sure what the answer is, although I agree it would be easiest to sell them two seats (but that still leaves safety questions unanswered). But I wonder who decides when a person needs two seats. I wouldn't want to be the gate or ticket agent deciding that, because so many people would take offense to being called obese, and would not be happy being forced to buy two seats. I can see the lawsuits now, claiming "emotional distress", "public embarrassment", "harassment", etc.

Easy. They already have those pockets for carry-on luggage. If the luggage does not fit, then it has to be checked in. They could just put a seat with two metal vertical walls where the arm rests are on the seat. If you can sit in the seat with your back flat against the back wall, then you can board with your single ticket. If not, then you have to buy another seat.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Easy. They already have those pockets for carry-on luggage. If the luggage does not fit, then it has to be checked in. They could just put a seat with two metal vertical walls where the arm rests are on the seat. If you can sit in the seat with your back flat against the back wall, then you can board with your single ticket. If not, then you have to buy another seat.

That's a good idea, but unless they're required to I doubt the airlines will ever be forcing fat people into a test seat to see if they're too big. There's just too much potential for negative publicity there. Some slimy lawyer will find someone who missed his dear mother's funeral because he couldn't afford a second seat (or something along those lines that wouldn't sound good for the airline in a quick soundbite on the news) and will file suit.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Whether it is an individual's "fault" or not is irelevant. It is simply not feasible to comprimise the safety of 99 (etc) other people just to meet the needs of one person--that's asking a bit much. Making seats larger is also improbable. It would cut down the # of passengers/trip, thus either reducing revenue or causing everyone else's ticket prices to rise--again, to accomadate just the needs of a single person on that particular aircraft. Best solution, is to allow the sale of 2 full price seats to that single passenger. That is overall, the best and most fair solution for all involved IMO. I am, thru no fault of my own, 6'4"+ and have to stoop quite low just to walk down the aisle of most planes, but I do not expect them to increase the overal height of the fuselage just to accomadate my height. That would be completely ridiculous. It may or may not be the oversize person's fault, but it is no one else's either. I do have a few questions for those familar with commercial passenger flight. 1. Would the seatbelt fit the guy in the picture--or do they have seat belt extenders? 2. In the event of a crash, would/could the forward inertia of that person's mass/weight cause the seatbelt or seat mountings to fail, slamming his bulk into the seatback in front of him? 3. Would the emergency pneumatic actuated exit slide/chute support his weight?

I agree completely. Paying for 2 seats is not unreasonable. It would just be nice if there was a less embarrassing way to do it. Online ticketing systems don't give you the option (the one's I've seen). I guess you have to talk to a person with the airline to get the extra seat.

I'll have to take a tip from Charlie Daniels and when I fly commercial, I'll have my staff take care of the tickets.

As for your questions, to the best of my knowledge;
1. No, the seatbelts won't fit him. They have seat belt extenders for obese people.
2. No idea. But in the event of a crash, any passenger's weight/inertia could do that if the crash were severe enough.
3. Probably. The chutes are designed to have multiple people coming off the plane at once, and you slid to the bottom pretty fast. (as I understand it - if airline employees know different, please speak up) It may not hold up as well, but should serve the purpose of getting your butt out of a crashed plane and onto the ground.

Most items are designed with a factor of safety. Buildings may have a factor of safety of 10 or more. Fighter plans less than 2. Even something designed for a 195lb person, with a factor of safety of 2, a 390 lb person would still not exceed the design load. They would exceed the "recommended" load. You never design for exactly what you need to support for that specific reason.

I'm not overweight, but I get charged for extra carry on bags. Can I just strap those bags to my body, essentially taking up the extra space an obese person would, and not be charged extra for those bags?

That's really what gets me about this, the fact that I have to pay extra for carry on bags (due to the fact that they add extra weight and take up extra space), but some 400+ pound person can come on there and not have to pay anything for their extra weight/space. I mean, that's the airlines argument when they charge more for extra bags.....it uses more fuel to haul the extra weight.

It's their logic, so maybe they should just start charging people by weight, not by the ticket. Insensitive? Yes. Will it solve the problem here? Yes. It may be a little hard for online ticket sales, hmm. Ah, hell with it, charge them for an extra seat

quote Originally posted by ditch: .....and don't even get me started on obesity in America. I know there are conditions that cause this, I know that, and I completely respect those people who have to fight conditions/disorders that cause them to gain weight. BUT, nobody will convince me that this applies to the majority of obese Americans. I've been around for a while, I have seen people everyday for decades, and I have seen the typical eating and exercise habits of the average Joe....it ain't good. I know exactly why the obesity problem is so out of control in this country, it's right in front of everyones face.....now I'll wait to be called insensitive for stating the obvious

I don't know about the "majority" having medical conditions, etc. I know some do, and I know many just have poor eating and exercise habits.

What gets me is the "righteous insensitivity" people exhibit about obesity. Regardless of the medical reasons, if you just eat less and exercise more, you'll lose weight! It's just the facts!
Perhaps, but the "facts" don't tell the whole story.

All an anorexic has to do to maintain a healthy weight is eat properly.

All an alcoholic has to do to stay sober is not drink.

All a smoker has to do to quit smoking is not smoke.

Yes, factually accurate statements, but not too many people would so "tell it like it is" to people with those other habits/afflictions. (Well, with the exception of smokers. It has become "trendy" to scorn smokers for their filthy habit.)

quote Originally posted by ditch: It's their logic, so maybe they should just start charging people by weight, not by the ticket.

Does a skinny person today only pay half price becouse their boney butt only uses half a seat?
If tomorrow the whole plane is full of 100 pounders, does every one get a refund becouse they are using less fuel to haul them?

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-07-2009).]

quote Originally posted by ditch: It's their logic, so maybe they should just start charging people by weight, not by the ticket.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Does a skinny person today only pay half price becouse their boney butt only uses half a seat? If tomorrow the whole plane is full of 100 pounders, does every one get a refund becouse they are using less fuel to haul them?

Both of you are oversimplifying things. A fair pricing scheme would depend on the cost to the airline.

There are some discrete costs, such as the number of seats taken.
Others, such as mass are continuously variable.

A fair model would have to take in account many factors, excluding the personal reasons for weighing a certain amount. Does the reason a person weights x lbs change the cost to the airline?

Doubfull that a seatbelt would hold him in a crash. As I said, in aviation an average person is considered to be 180 pnds. The planes balance design and components are based around that. While the belt itself may not break, the anchoring system will prob fail. ie/ in a 5G crash, a 300 pnd guy weighs almost a ton. Too much to be supported by 2 bolts thru aluminum. Not only would he die, he would most likely take out a bunch ahead of him.