Let me lay out the scenerio for you all first.
I live in a quiet neighborhood. Not a lot going on. I have chickens in my back yard. Keep to myself. Wave to the neighbors as I drive by.
Last year, they built a park within eyesight of my front yard. It is my kid's bus stop as well. My kids go to the park everyday on their scooters and bikes and never have any issues ever. I go down to the park on occasion and play some b-ball with my kids. I'm not an idiot. I see the local teenagers smoking and making out there after dark, but it isn't my concern. My kids don't go there after dark. There are also a few of the older kids that are there 24/7 (or so it seems). I get along with them and they know the dirt on everybody. I told them to let me know if anyone f**ks with my kids. I have no issues hitting a teenager with a baseball bat. I could hit a teenager with a bat and then go out to lunch if he screwed with or pushed drugs on my kids. I don't think I'll really ever be in that situation here.
Anyway, we come to yesterday....A stranger I never met (older fella about 50) knocked on my door and asked me to step outside (not politely). I was curious, so I went outside. He then gets in my face and threatens me with calling the police and child services if he ever sees my kids at the park again without me. I ask him what his concern is. he says they will be kidnapped. At this point I am doing everything in my willpower to not beat the everliving crap out of this guy, but I stay calm and speak one word at a time.
He told me that he is watching me and he will call the police if he ever sees my kids unattended.
If you drive in my neighborhood, your speed will be around 10mph because of all the kids in the area playing together in the streets and at the park. Kids ranging from 4-18.
So here I wonder.....Why my kids? My youngest is 4 and she is NEVER alone. Always with my oldest or second 11 & 10. If he does call the police, am I screwed? When I was 8 years old, I would ride my bike to the beach and spend 10 hours a day there with just me and my best friend. Times have changed. How can I find out if this guy can really screw with me? Also, he claims to live in the neighborhood and I'd recognize his vehicle if I saw it again. Should I scope him out?
I did a sex offenders search on my neighborhood and I got 0.
Dave

Did you get his information? Seems like he is paying way too much attention to your kids. Perhaps he is on the line and this is a cry for help. Or hes just a lonely old man that has nothing else but to get into someone else's business.
In my opinion 4 is a little young to put in the care of a 10 year old, just too easily distracted but so are most 16 year olds. But I don't think you would be in trouble.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 11-01-2009).]

The way the world is today about unattended kids I'd say that with enough complaints some unwanted attention can be brought to your doorstep. If I had as many children at the age of yours, I'd be cautious as to letting them watch eachother alone. Sickos are everywhere and children aren't strong enough to fend them off. In todays society I darn sure wouldn't trust others to defend my children......remember what happened in CA with the 15yr old that got rapped.

Paul

i used to goto the park with friends at 10... wanst allowed alone, but aslong as i was with friends it was ok, was only like 2blocks away, i plan on doing the same with my kids... i agree that it sounds like that guy was paying too much attention to your kids... not sure in the bad way, but the annoying, im going to be overly annoying because i have nothing else better to do.... call your local police department and talk to a detective, they will be able to advice you that yes you have to watch your kids else you could get in trouble, or that the old man is just there to put you threw hell...

As a dad myself who is VERY overprotective of my children.. I would be contacting the police right away and I agree with Jake..why is he so concerned with your kids.. Dont let them out of your site!! I would find out all I could about this guy.. there is something not right here..

Expand your sex offenders search to five miles. They won't stay in their neighborhood, and they know where the parks are.

Wife and I have talked about a pistol (not as a 2d Amendment issue), and other means of protection. Are we overkill? Maybe. It may not get that far, but we are exploring all the options.

Where I'm going with this, is that, in every case that a child is kidnapped and (whatever else), no one expected this to happen in their neighborhood/town/etc. Keep in mind that a judge, who knows all the facts, and probably heard all the innuendo, as well, gave this guy a sentence that allows him to be on the street right now. I'd rather be overly cautious. The guy on your doorstep overstepped common sense by approaching and threatening you the way he did, but think - he had the opportunity, if he had the motive.

quote Originally posted by isthiswhereiputausername?: As a dad myself who is VERY overprotective of my children.. I would be contacting the police right away and I agree with Jake..why is he so concerned with your kids.. Dont let them out of your site!! I would find out all I could about this guy.. there is something not right here..

+1

Is the park line of sight from your front door?

I don't think you should be worried about him. My take is he's trying to put some sense into that long-haired punk before something bad happens. Did it the WRONG way for you. Might work on some guys, but backfires on Dave.

But it did get your attention. I don't think this guy is a problem, otherwise he wouldn't have faced you. I'm in the "overprotective" group. I wouldn't let my 4 & 10 year old go to the park alone, but it's a close call depending on the neighborhood. Maybe the old guy has seen the 'hood change too much for his liking, and wants to warn the new parents.

Maybe it's just one of those warnings from somewhere that we ought pay attention to.

Allow me to digrees for a story? Skip it if you don't:

Many years ago my fiancee her son (about 6) and I were in Ocean County Mall. You know where that is. The boy is acting up, but fiancee wants to run into a store for one thing. We wait outside, he's getting really out of hand. I tell her we're going to wait in the car, pick him up and walk out. All the way through the mall, small blonde boy being carried by a brown haired man is yelling "You're not my Dad! I hate you! Put me down! I want my Mom!" Nobody even LOOKS OVER.

Until I'm halfway across the parking lot. Then a voice behind me: "SIR! IS THAT YOUR SON?" Big guy, making a beeline for me. No uniform, but looks very determined. I start to explain when the fiancee shows up. The guy is VERY apologetic, upset and embarassed. We told him, don't be, you, out of every person in a crowded mall, did the right thing. Don't be afraid to do it again. Some day you might be right.

I hope this guy was wrong, too.

my 2 cents, and I hope you aren't offended.
1. The guy is either overly a busybody or has some personal issues. Whether he can get you in trouble or not is not a question anyone here can answer--local law would be the source for answers to that question.
2. Tho I think the guy handled it completely wrong, and I have not the slightest idea what his true motives were, I kinda agree with him. 10, 11, and 4 yr olds shouldn't be left unattended, even under the questionably watchful eyes of the local teenage guys who hangout at the park. Your children's safety and well being are not their responsibility--it's yours. Teenagers have a tendency to become somewhat "self absorbed" in their own activities.

No, I don't mean to come off as inferring you are a bad parent, I just would hate to see anything happen to your children. The truth is, We have a natural tendency to believe everything and everybody is OK--till suddenly they are not. Then, it's too late.

Hire someone competent to accompany your kids when they are not with you.
Good luck.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-01-2009).]

I can't speak from experience, since I'm not a parent.
But 4 does seem kind of young. Even though she's in the company of her older siblings, kids can get distracted.
Not that they are irresponsible. Just that they're kids.

I certainly wouldn't take it upon myself to complain to someone about their kids, however. Unless I had some sort of an agenda or complaint (like maybe they were bothering me?)
Is it possible that he has kids or grandkids that are feeling intimidated (or too empowered?) by yours?

Strange, regardless.

I would have deffenetley bwent to the police about this. That kinds of stuff is no joking matter. We have the same problem with the park in my back yard. kids hangin out there at night drugs bouncing cars loud noises and the problem is police dont ever go back there i think in the 9 years i have lived here there i have see 2 cops back there. One was taking a piss and the second time they were looking for someone who tried toi kick in my neighbors door.

I definitely see your points. I didn't like the way the guy was talking to me, but it was obvious to both of us that he wasn't there to start a fight with me. I'm younger, bigger and meaner...lol.
Other than that, maybe it was a wake up call for me. I'd be devistated if anything were to happen to any of my kids. My 11 year old is big for her age (5'2 107lbs) , but doesn't know how to handle situations like an adult yet. The other issue is my kids are very friendly. They spend a lot of vacation time in Louisiana, so they get the southern upbringing and hospitality.
It was just the "stresser". With Joey being away for weeks at a time, me running the shop, four....no, three different babysitters on call (had to fire one on Friday).
Well. I guess it gives me an excuse to go play more basketball.
Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I definitely see your points. I didn't like the way the guy was talking to me, but it was obvious to both of us that he wasn't there to start a fight with me. I'm younger, bigger and meaner...lol. Other than that, maybe it was a wake up call for me. I'd be devistated if anything were to happen to any of my kids. My 11 year old is big for her age (5'2 107lbs) , but doesn't know how to handle situations like an adult yet. The other issue is my kids are very friendly. They spend a lot of vacation time in Louisiana, so they get the southern upbringing and hospitality. It was just the "stresser". With Joey being away for weeks at a time, me running the shop, four....no, three different babysitters on call (had to fire one on Friday). Well. I guess it gives me an excuse to go play more basketball. Dave

verizon cell phone with family locate... tell them to keep it "hidden" on them. you will be able to track where they are 24/7, might not be as handy right now, but def will when they are older.

I don't see how letting your kids play in the park is a criminal offense, but I am a bit over protective of my son and would not let him go without an adult. I work with kids everyday and even though you teach them to not talk to strangers, etc.... they still don't have the experience to make good decisions. Kids are naturally trusting of adults and all it would take is one person saying "My puppy is missing, can you please help me find her?" and you are minus a child
As far as the creepy old guy, probably harmless- but if you see him around your kids, kick his butt just to be on the safe side

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: Expand your sex offenders search to five miles. They won't stay in their neighborhood, and they know where the parks are.

I did expand my seach to 5 miles and one of my Porsche owner customers showed up on that list. He owns a local pizza place and apparantly thought he could have sex with one of the underage counter help, He's a creep and I'll make sure I charge him triple on his next repair.
Dave

The guy should have come on to you so strong. You should check you local laws about leaving your children unattended. Times have changed since we were kids. There are many more perverts and child molesters out there. The guy could have told you in a nicer way, he didn't have to be so rude and unfriendly. You had the right to tell him to mind his own business if you wanted to, it would have been his word against yours.
We kept a real good eye on our son, until recently, when he turned 18 this year. We basically didn't leave him go anywhere alone until he was almost out of middle school. He would have all his friends come to our house to play. We only let him go out with a group of friends, a few times, when they all started driving. He is our only son and we have been very protective and sheltering. Now that we have moved to another state, he has kept the number of his friends to a couple and they aren't as close as his other friends. He basically went from Kindergarden to his junior year in High School with the same friends, so we knew who they were, their parents, their phone numbers and where they lived. We also knew if they could be trusted or not. Lucky for us he dropped the ones that started doing pot or alcohol.
It is up to us as parents to mold and guide our children, it also is our responsibility to watch and guard over them. Even in our good neighborhood, some stranger approached my son, when he was out for a walk at the age of sixteen years. This person asked him if he would like to go for a ride with him. My son refused and went to a nearby friends home with this stranger following him.
We went right to the police station to report this person when my son felt it was safe enough to return home. My son could have probably taken care of the guy if he had gotten more agressive. My son was a first degree black belt in karate back then, but it was best that he went to the friends house that was closeby.
I still grill him about where is going now that he is in College. A parent's job is never done it seems.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: The guy should have come on to you so strong. You should check you local laws about leaving your children unattended. Times have changed since we were kids. There are many more perverts and child molesters out there. The guy could have told you in a nicer way, he didn't have to be so rude and unfriendly. You had the right to tell him to mind his own business if you wanted to, it would have been his word against yours. We kept a real good eye on our son, until recently, when he turned 18 this year. We basically didn't leave him go anywhere alone until he was almost out of middle school. He would have all his friends come to our house to play. We only let him go out with a group of friends, a few times, when they all started driving. He is our only son and we have been very protective and sheltering. Now that we have moved to another state, he has kept the number of his friends to a couple and they aren't as close as his other friends. He basically went from Kindergarden to his junior year in High School with the same friends, so we knew who they were, their parents, their phone numbers and where they lived. We also knew if they could be trusted or not. Lucky for us he dropped the ones that started doing pot or alcohol. It is up to us as parents to mold and guide our children, it also is our responsibility to watch and guard over them. Even in our good neighborhood, some stranger approached my son, when he was out for a walk at the age of sixteen years. This person asked him if he would like to go for a ride with him. My son refused and went to a nearby friends home with this stranger following him. We went right to the police station to report this person when my son felt it was safe enough to return home. My son could have probably taken care of the guy if he had gotten more agressive. My son was a first degree black belt in karate back then, but it was best that he went to the friends house that was closeby. I still grill him about where is going now that he is in College. A parent's job is never done it seems.

Very well put. I know my parents raised me to do the right thing. you know he hits you you hit him back dont do drugs no alchol no late nights.
My dad sat me down on my 18th birthday and explained to me its my life now. Everything I do affects me. I can live at home as long as i want and i will always have a home to come to. But from here on out my decisions affect only me. To this day i still try to do the right thing in every situation im in.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: With Joey being away for weeks at a time, me running the shop, four....no, three different babysitters on call (had to fire one on Friday). Well. I guess it gives me an excuse to go play more basketball. Dave

Dave,
I agree with everything that Don posted below. I'd have to suggest that today is not the same world you grew up in and surely not the same one I grew up in. I think your attitude about it being an opportunity to play more basketball is the right answer. You've taken on a huge task. I salute and appreciate your efforts. I also don't know this guy's true intentions but, taken at first glance, it would seem that he's just pointing out that in his opinion, your kids are in a bad situation while on the playground. I'd take it as just that and keep an eye out for possible problems. I also agree that even your oldest isn't prepared to deal with someone that wants to do harm to any of your kids. About the best you can hope for is one will call for help and help would arrive in time to stop the problem. Best of luck to you but, don't depend on luck, Smith and Wesson are good friends to place your trust in.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: my 2 cents, and I hope you aren't offended. 1. The guy is either overly a busybody or has some personal issues. Whether he can get you in trouble or not is not a question anyone here can answer--local law would be the source for answers to that question. 2. Tho I think the guy handled it completely wrong, and I have not the slightest idea what his true motives were, I kinda agree with him. 10, 11, and 4 yr olds shouldn't be left unattended, even under the questionably watchful eyes of the local teenage guys who hangout at the park. Your children's safety and well being are not their responsibility--it's yours. Teenagers have a tendency to become somewhat "self absorbed" in their own activities. No, I don't mean to come off as inferring you are a bad parent, I just would hate to see anything happen to your children. The truth is, We have a natural tendency to believe everything and everybody is OK--till suddenly they are not. Then, it's too late. Hire someone competent to accompany your kids when they are not with you. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-02-2009).]

I couldn't blame you for wanting to hit a pusher with a bat but you'd be much better off letting the police handle it. If you don't get any satisfaction there, HIRE another kid to do it! Hahaha

Jonathan

The guy came on a little strong and rubbed you the wrong way. That's understandable as a reaction on your part.

Speaking for myself only.

We would only hire a babysitter that was at LEAST a high school freshman. Having said that, I wouldn't let your 11 year old watch my kid. Having said that I think it's a little young to put the responsibility of watching your 4 year old at a park. Hopefully you follow that logic.

At the park, the kids get to playing and get distracted. It only takes a moment and suddenly they look around and "where's baby jane?" They're not there to JUST watch the younger kids, they're also there to play, and when kids play they get distracted, so no, I wouldn't do it myself.

Everybody has their own comfort levels depending on their neighborhood and past experiences. I grew up in the country, we rarely got to go to town to go to the swimming pool with other kids when I was young, until we got into high school, and when we did, it was under mom's watchful eye or with someone who mom trusted to take us, which meant they were 16 or older since they drove.

John Stricker

Regardless of whether or not anyone thinks it is OK to let your kids play in a park without direct supervision (for me, it depends on the age of the child(ren), and who else is with them...groups being safer), there is the issue of the 'reporting you to child services'. I have known people that have had their children 'confiscated' from them, based on not much more than an anonymous 'tip' that the children were being abused. Months of legal battles, trying to clear their name, etc. Ultimately they won. But it cost them their life savings, their reputation in the community, and their house.

Child services is not to be trifled with. Being as you are in the PRNJ (for those that don't know, that's 'Peoples Republic of New Jersey'), please be careful, as it is in NJ from which the family I speak of had to deal with 'child services'. It seems that the 'State' has the ability to deny due process on matters of child welfare, and they are quite willing to act on bogus complaints.

Good luck with that person. While his intent _may_ be good, the fact that he brought up the police and child services causes me to question his motives. It goes beyond a 'friendly' conversation. Way beyond.

quote Originally posted by dsnover: Regardless of whether or not anyone thinks it is OK to let your kids play in a park without direct supervision (for me, it depends on the age of the child(ren), and who else is with them...groups being safer), there is the issue of the 'reporting you to child services'. I have known people that have had their children 'confiscated' from them, based on not much more than an anonymous 'tip' that the children were being abused. Months of legal battles, trying to clear their name, etc. Ultimately they won. But it cost them their life savings, their reputation in the community, and their house. Child services is not to be trifled with. Being as you are in the PRNJ (for those that don't know, that's 'Peoples Republic of New Jersey'), please be careful, as it is in NJ from which the family I speak of had to deal with 'child services'. It seems that the 'State' has the ability to deny due process on matters of child welfare, and they are quite willing to act on bogus complaints. Good luck with that person. While his intent _may_ be good, the fact that he brought up the police and child services causes me to question his motives. It goes beyond a 'friendly' conversation. Way beyond.

This would seem to be sound advice. Never let the other guy get the upper hand, be proactive.

Ron

yes, the times are a changin....
they will yell at you for not helmeting on the bicycle as well
the dangers havent changed - in fact - you are safer now than when we were kids
but, that does not change the fact that the creeps are still out there

but, anyways - to me - 14 is the absolute youngest, and thats if I know the kid watching, to be unattended

I agree that the 4 year old is probably too young to be left in the care of the 10 year old. I also agree that I might do a little pre-emptive and contact the police on my own. One, to find out if THEY think you are in the wrong letting your kids go to the park unattended. And two, to inform them of the busy body who is watching your kids. And that is probably all he is...

Seems that most of us are overprotective of our kids. My daughter will be 13 in January. She is not allowed outside of the cul de sac on her bike. She is never out of my sight. Never had any problems around here but I sure don't intend for my daughter to be the first.

It is a shame that kids don't have the life a lot of us had growing up. I was gone from daylight till dark on my bike when I was a kid. My parents wouldn't hear from me all day. And I might go as far away as 10 miles! But it was a small town in the country, and it was a different time. Sure, there were still bad people around. Maybe just not as many. The good ole days are gone.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-02-2009).]