BEIJING - China said Saturday that it is strongly opposed to President Obama's decision to impose punitive tariffs on imports of car and light truck tires, calling it protectionism that violates World Trade Organization rules.
Obama had until Sept. 17 to accept, reject or modify a U.S. International Trade Commission ruling that a rising tide of Chinese tires into the U.S. hurts American producers. A powerful union, United Steelworkers, blames the increase for the loss of thousands of American jobs.
For the Chinese government, the tire dispute threatens an economic relationship crucial to the country's economic growth. Chinese officials had previously appealed to Washington to avoid taking steps that might harm relations.
The new tariffs set a bad precedent in light of the global economic crisis and China reserves the right to react, Ministry of Commerce spokesman Yao Jian said according to a statement on the ministry Web site.
The abuse of such trade relief measures will harm U.S.-China economic and trade relations, the statement said.
"China strongly opposes this serious act of trade protectionism by the U.S.," the statement said. "This act not only violates the rules of the World Trade Organization but also violates the relevant commitments made by the U.S. government at the G-20 financial summit."
The Chinese government will continue to adopt necessary measures to support its tire industry to deal with the negative impact caused by the case, it said. China also reserves the right to bring the case to the WTO, it said.
Chinese officials have said the case was prompted by the financial problems suffered by U.S. auto and tire producers due to the economic crisis, and they are blaming China for decreasing profits.
Many Chinese analysts, however, believe U.S.-China economic ties are too important for the governments to risk upsetting them.
The federal trade panel recommended a 55 percent tariff in the first year, 45 percent in the second year and 35 percent in the third year. Obama settled on slightly lower penalties -- an extra 35 percent in the first year, 30 percent in the second, and 25 percent in the third, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Friday.
The steelworkers union brought the original case in April, accusing China of making a recent push to unload more tires ahead of Obama's expected action. The union says more than 5,000 tire workers have lost jobs since 2004, as Chinese tires overwhelmed the U.S. market.
BO is supposed to be going over there in November. Wonder if he's going to borrow more or get them to buy into the global warming crap? Will be interesting to see if the Chinese turn a cold shoulder to him. Will be a nice shopping spree for Michelle and the kids. Wonder what they would do if we defaulted on the debt? Whatever happened to the days when every country owed us money? I was going on vacation there in November, but part of going is to get away from the crap here. Don't want to see his face on TV every day like I do here. Will go in December now, maybe spend Christmas there. At least there you see Merry Christmas plastered everywhere, and not just the politically correct Happy Holidays like here.
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02:32 AM
ghost187x Member
Posts: 1026 From: El Paso, TX Registered: Oct 2008
what kind of example do we put when our own country has a high debt (deficit)? whenever i owe a lot on credit cards most banks will not give me a loan. the economy is down and america owes even more money to random people... maybe we should get a credit report on future presidents before they take office.
That's kinda like the local Hyper-Store knocking on your door and complaining because you are growing your own fruit and veg, and rearing chicken and rabbits for the table!! TELL THEM TO FLOCK OFF!!!!! Never forget..they need US (almost ) as much as we need THEM. (Why isn't there a 'traffic finger' smilie????? ) Nick
That's kinda like the local Hyper-Store knocking on your door and complaining because you are growing your own fruit and veg, and rearing chicken and rabbits for the table!! TELL THEM TO FLOCK OFF!!!!! Never forget..they need US (almost ) as much as we need THEM. (Why isn't there a 'traffic finger' smilie????? ) Nick
US population=less than 400 million. Earth's population=6.7 billion China=1.3 billion Asia (India and China=4 billion All of Europe=710 million
Their economy is tied directly to ours. It's like a bad relationship, they may want to leave, but cannot. We but the majority of their exports.
Edit to add: Also, we must look at spending habits and the goods China produces. There are emerging consumer-powers but they do not purchase like many Americans do. It would likely be a long time until other nations could fill our gap. Examine the import tax many S.E. Asian nations put on products. Malaysia has a national car (The Proton) that almost everyone drives. This is a result of import taxes that (depending on the vehicle) range from 200%-400%, similar on many other goods going into many other nations. .02
[This message has been edited by psychosurfer (edited 09-12-2009).]
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09:18 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 35994 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by maryjane: A powerful union, United Steelworkers, blames the increase for the loss of thousands of American jobs. The steelworkers union brought the original case in April, accusing China of making a recent push to unload more tires ahead of Obama's expected action. The union says more than 5,000 tire workers have lost jobs since 2004, as Chinese tires overwhelmed the U.S. market.
Hehehehe. Hahahahaha. Bawh ha ha. They are not Chinese tires. They belong to American tire manufactures. Next thing you know, the unions will be having Obama make the Chinese and other foreign countries to allow Card Check. Maybe the unions should take their thugocracy and bribes overseas.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 09-12-2009).]
BEIJING - China said Saturday that it is strongly opposed to President Obama's decision to impose punitive tariffs on imports of car and light truck tires, calling it protectionism that violates World Trade Organization rules.
That is a funny statement there..
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09:41 AM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Their economy is tied directly to ours. It's like a bad relationship, they may want to leave, but cannot. We but the majority of their exports.
Edit to add: Also, we must look at spending habits and the goods China produces. There are emerging consumer-powers but they do not purchase like many Americans do. It would likely be a long time until other nations could fill our gap. Examine the import tax many S.E. Asian nations put on products. Malaysia has a national car (The Proton) that almost everyone drives. This is a result of import taxes that (depending on the vehicle) range from 200%-400%, similar on many other goods going into many other nations. .02
The Chinese crave anything American, fruit being a biggie. They may be getting the cream of our crop as well. 1.3 Billion consumers is a big draw for American companies, but only a small portion of their population can afford our goods because of tariffs. Do we keep Chinese tariffs low and force them to lower theirs to the same levels. They have lowered many of them. This keeps their goods cheap here and allows more Chinese to buy our goods. Or do we tax the crap out of Chinese goods and they will do the same. The price will go up on our side and we will sell virtually nothing over there. The thing I do not like about the second option is that it is a round about way for our government to levy more taxes on us.
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10:47 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Hehehehe. Hahahahaha. Bawh ha ha. They are not Chinese tires. They belong to American tire manufactures. Next thing you know, the unions will be having Obama make the Chinese and other foreign countries to allow Card Check. Maybe the unions should take their thugocracy and bribes overseas.
what tyre brands are china made and what lines
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
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01:56 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
I saw one of China's tire company at SEMA in 2008. IMO, based upon China's recent fumbling in pet foods, clothing lined with chemicals that are known to cause cancer...I would avoid all tires made in China. Period.
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02:11 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 35994 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Wiki isn't a very good source. Don't know what I was thinking.
"This is Kumho’s fourth tire plant in China, and the company has three other facilities in Nanjing, Tianjin and Changchun. In addition, the company established an R&D center in Tianjin in 2006, which includes the latest testing facilities for chemical analysis and performance tests" From http://www.kumhousa.com/New...9b-a9e4-1b518592bec5
[This message has been edited by WBailey1041 (edited 09-12-2009).]
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08:23 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
September 12, 2009 Obama Concedes to Union in Trade Tariff Decision President Obama earned his union stripes with his decision to level tariffs on Chinese tire imports into the United States. Some big questions remain: will the Chinese retaliate? Will the action actually save American jobs? And perhaps most importantly for the White House, will conceding to the Union – a major campaign supporter – help in the President’s push for health care reform?
In a late Friday night announcement, the White said the President would,” remedy the clear disruption to the U.S. tire industry based on the facts and the law in this case,” by imposing a a 35% duty on passenger vehicle and light truck tires.
The United Steel Workers Union, which represents US tire workers, won an International Trade Commission (ITC) ruling that called for 3 years of tariffson Chinese made tires, starting at 55% and falling by 10% each of the next two years.
While the President is imposing a 35% tariff which reduces to 25% by the third year, the Union is nonetheless pleased.
"For far too long, workers across this country have been victimized by bad trade policies and government inaction. Today, President Obama made clear that he will enforce America's trade laws and stand with American workers," USW International President Leo W. Gerard said.
The irony is that the tire companies and the association of tire dealers did not support the tariffs.
“We are certainly disheartened that the President bowed to the Union and disregarded the interests of the thousands of other American workers and consumers,” said Marguerite Trossevin with Jochum Shore & Trossevin and counsel to the Coalition.
The imported tires are actually made for Goodyear, Michelin, Cooper and Bridgestone using the cheaper labor and materials in China. Those companies tend to focus their domestic plants on higher quality and higher performance tires, but the low end tires account for about 15% of the market. Tariffs would raise their prices and presumably reduce the amount of sales.
With the tariff, experts believe that no only will the tire companies seek cheap labor in other countries like Vietnam and Indonesia, but that more American jobs – particularly in the retail end of the tire industry -- will be lost overall.
Professor Tom Prusa, of Rutgars University, completed a study to evaluate how many jobs would be saved as a result of the tariffs. The answer was none. In fact, he belives that up to 20,000 jobs in related tire industries will now be lost as result.
Section 421 of the trade law under which the tariff will be imposed, was created as a concession to get China into the World Trade Organization.
Despite similar cases brought on during the Bush administration, President Bush never chose to enforce the tariffs because of the perception
"For the President to take this kind of decision, I think, would undermine American credibility in trying to revive the global economy," noted Dennis Wilder, an East Asia expert at the Brookings Institute
The imported tires are actually made for Goodyear, Michelin, Cooper and Bridgestone using the cheaper labor and materials in China. Those companies tend to focus their domestic plants on higher quality and higher performance tires, but the low end tires account for about 15% of the market. Tariffs would raise their prices and presumably reduce the amount of sales.
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09:30 PM
Sep 13th, 2009
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Just more taxes. And this is the beginning of what he promised, no new taxes for the middle class. Why doesn't he give these tariffs to the tire companies in return for a promise that they will lower the prices of their tires. Then they could be more competitive with the Chinese, and the poor and middle class would spend less for tires. Proof again the dems are for the working class.
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01:21 AM
KurtAKX Member
Posts: 4008 From: West Bloomfield, MI Registered: Feb 2002
Tire brands Nankang and Wanli also? There seem to be about a hundred brands from China making tires for 20+ inch rims, since no one can afford the "real thing" for wheels that big.
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01:25 AM
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
So, if China was dumping as found by the ITC, what penalties (if any) are appropriate? The ones the President signed off on are less than the ones recommended by the ITC so you can bet that there was some kind of deal made with the Chinese already.
The practice of dumping is intended to put competition out of business and corner the market. Should this be ignored because China lends us money to buy their stuff? Is it O.K. for U.S. companies to use Chinese subsidiaries to dump, thereby wiping out domestic production to increase profits?
Here comes the other shoe. US Auto and Poultry imports being investigated in China. Where is the only place in the world that GM is profitable? China. http://www.businessweek.com...alnews/D9AMEC801.htm
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11:21 AM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Here comes the other shoe. US Auto and Poultry imports being investigated in China. Where is the only place in the world that GM is profitable? China. http://www.businessweek.com...alnews/D9AMEC801.htm
You F' with our tires, we F' with your whole car, and we will F' your chickens while we are at it.
I have spent a LOT of time in Western China. The "vibe" there is of fear that the USA will stop buying the good s they make. This fear is based in their perception that if we sop buying, their economy will fail. We are a nation filled with problem solvers. Love or hate many of the current actions taking place by those who (love it or hate it) represent you and me, we will find solutions to problems. Pesimism rarely serves. Keep up the vigilant watch-keeping of those in power, and good things will be in our collective future. Finding fear and failure in everything without a SOLUTION to it is a fruitless endevor. Simply my .02
Good vibes to everyone in the world to find peace and happiness in our lives.
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08:02 PM
PFF
System Bot
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 22896 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Maybe if the union workers didn't have to pay union dues, then that money could otherwise go towards keeping the company healthy.
I'd love to know how much money gets siphoned off of both the American tire manufacturers, as well as the union workers, that instead goes to the union corporate employees for free health care, hair cuts, gym memberships, take-home cars, and excellent pensions...
4 problems that could sink America American ingenuity has solved daunting problems before and could again. But it would be a mistake to assume that American prosperity is on a preordained upward course.
By Rick Newman, U.S. News & World Report If we're lucky, the recession is winding down, and life will start to feel a bit more comfortable before long. But that doesn't mean things will go back to the way they used to be.
The global recession that began in America's housing market has shaken the world's economic order and possibly knocked the United States down a notch or two. The spendthrift American consumer is out of money. American wages are flat. Despite some hopeful signs, the U.S. economy could muddle along for years.
Meanwhile, actions in China -- rather than in the United States -- may have been the trigger for a global economic recovery. Many other nations will grow faster than the United States over the next few years and command an increasing share of the world's resources.
"The message to Americans," says Mauro Guillen, an economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, "is you need to redouble your efforts to be more competitive."
American innovation has solved daunting problems before and could again. But it would be a mistake to assume that American prosperity will continue on some preordained upward course. Nations rise and fall, often realizing what happened only in retrospect.
Here are four problems that are undermining our future prosperity:
We don't like to work Sure, now that jobs are scarce, everybody's willing to put in a few extra hours to stay ahead of the ax. But look around: We still expect easy money, hope to retire early and embrace the overly simplistic messages of bestsellers like "The One Minute Millionaire" and "The 4-Hour Work Week."
Unfortunately, the rest of the world isn't sending as much money our way as it used to, which makes it harder to do less with more.
White-collar jobs are now migrating overseas just like blue-collar ones. Kids in Asia spend the summer studying math and science while American mall rats are texting each other about Britney and Miley.
"We need a different mind-set," says Guillen. "People need to invest more in their own future. Instead of buying stuff at the mall, spend the money on evening classes. Learn a language or skills you don't have."
I recently interviewed entrepreneur Gary Vaynerchuk, who transformed his father's neighborhood liquor store into a $60 million business anchored by the Web site winelibrarytv.com. An overnight success? Hardly. Vaynerchuk has big plans, and he works at least 16 hours a day to achieve them. "If you want to work eight hours a day," he says, "you're going to get eight-hour-a-day results. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't want to hear you ***** about money if you're only willing to work eight hours a day."
Vaynerchuk is only 33, but he has something in common with John Bogle, the founder of the Vanguard mutual fund company, who's 80 years old. I talked to Bogle recently about how Americans need to change their approach to work and money. He told me this: "We need more caution, more savings and we may have to work harder. Maybe we need more people who like to work and don't count down every day till retirement."
Nobody wants to sacrifice Why should we? The government is standing by with stimulus money, banker bailouts, homeowner aid, cash for clunkers, expanded health care and maybe more stimulus money. And most Americans will never have to pay an extra dime for any of this. Somehow, $9 trillion worth of government debt will just become somebody else's problem.
When he was campaigning, candidate Barack Obama dabbled with the "personal responsibility" theme, and in his acceptance speech in November he called for a "new spirit of sacrifice." But now that he's in office, there's less interest in such quaint ideas.
During Obama's prime-time news conference about health care reform in July, a reporter asked the president if ordinary Americans would have to give up anything in exchange for better, more widely available care. Obama's answer: "They're going to have to give up paying for things that don't make them healthier." Hooray! Something for nothing! He may as well have said, "Here's a magic pill that will make all your problems go away."
Obama's plan is to get a tiny portion of the American public -- the wealthy -- to pay higher taxes for the benefit of the majority. Hey, while we're at it, let's see if we can convince 1% of the population to bear the entire responsibility for fighting two open-ended wars that are supposedly in the interest of every American. It would just be too uncomfortable to tell the middle class that if they want something, they need to earn it themselves. We're uninformed The health care smackdown -- sorry, "debate" -- is Exhibits A, B and C. The soaring cost of health care is a problem that affects most Americans. It's shrinking paychecks, squeezing small businesses, bankrupting families and swelling the national debt.
Yet outraged Americans seem most concerned about fictions like death panels and government-enforced euthanasia, while clinging to the myth that our current system of selective availability and perverse incentives somehow represents capitalist ideals.
But let's take a break from that burdensome issue to examine the likelihood that President Obama was born in a foreign country and hoodwinked America into believing he was eligible to run for president.
People who lack the sense to question Big Lies always end up in deep trouble. Being well informed takes work, even with the Internet. In a democracy, that's simply a civic burden. If we're too foolish or lazy to educate ourselves on health care, global warming, financial reform and other complicated issues, then we're signing ourselves over to special interests who see nothing wrong with plundering our national -- and personal -- wealth.
The iCulture We may be chastened by the recession, but Americans still believe they deserve the best of everything -- the best job, the best health care, the best education for our kids. And we want it at a discount -- or better yet, free -- which brings us back to the usual disconnect between what we want and what we're willing to pay for.
Rationing is a dirty word, so we can't have a system that officially rations something as vital as health care or education. Instead, we have unacknowledged, de facto rationing that directs the most resources to those with the best connections, the most money or the savvy to game the system.
What keeps the rest of us content is the illusion that we, too, will eventually be able to game the system -- as long as the government doesn't interfere.
Solutions that serve some public good -- like Social Security and bank deposit insurance in the 1930s and Medicare in the 1960s -- usually require everybody to give something to get something. If it works, the overall benefits outweigh the costs.
Good programs leave individuals the option to pay more if they want more. Bad programs promise more than they can deliver. But often we don't know that until it's too late.
This was one of the important statements made in the article: "People who lack the sense to question Big Lies always end up in deep trouble. Being well informed takes work, even with the Internet. In a democracy, that's simply a civic burden. If we're too foolish or lazy to educate ourselves on health care, global warming, financial reform and other complicated issues, then we're signing ourselves over to special interests who see nothing wrong with plundering our national -- and personal -- wealth.". Too many liberals are just turming a blind eye to the problems we are having, without any care of what can happen to our nation's future.
The iCulture We may be chastened by the recession, but Americans still believe they deserve the best of everything -- the best job, the best health care, the best education for our kids. And we want it at a discount -- or better yet, free -- which brings us back to the usual disconnect between what we want and what we're willing to pay for we can afford
People want things just because they exist, or because someone else can afford one. Me me me. covet covet covet
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-13-2009).]
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09:06 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Talking to a friend of mine in China this morning. She said that night before last there was a special on TV how the chicken ranchers here were giving growth hormones and antibiotics to the chickens. They were claiming that the American kids develop physically much earlier than their kids and it may be because of the hormones. Considering having a child out of wedlock is 100 times more devastating there than here, they will not be feeding the children no US chicken. It was also said that giving them hormones allowed American ranchers to have an unfair advantage cost wise over the Chinese rancher. They were also talking about the bad affects of consuming chickens that had been given antibiotics. They said that treating them for illnesses could be hampered by consuming too much antibiotic laced chicken. Looks like the Chinese government is serious about eliminating our export of US chicken products. If they stop buying all of those tons of chicken parts, will that mean the American chickens will be staying home to roost?
She said that night before last there was a special on TV how the chicken ranchers here were giving growth hormones and antibiotics to the chickens. They were claiming that the American kids develop physically much earlier than their kids and it may be because of the hormones.
They do, and it does.
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11:29 PM
Sep 14th, 2009
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
"The GAO study also confirmed a dramatic change in the US meat and poultry industry since the Reagan Administration first opened the doors to union-busting and vertical integration and concentration in the industry by de facto ignoring enforcement of anti-trust and industrial safety laws such as the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (OSHA). In 1980 meat and poultry packing was highly unionized, and well-paid work, with the accompanying union defence of working and safety conditions. The industry was 46% unionized.
A decade later, by 1990, that rate had plunged to 21%, and today is far lower. The wages plunged in parallel, as did the composition of workers in the plants.
Today, according to the GAO, more than 38% of production line workers in the meat and poultry processing industry are foreign born. The GAO gives no data on what percent are illegal immigrants. The largest percent of workers are male, and 42% are Hispanic, and another 20% are black. But far from being a model of fairness in racial minority hiring, the high rate of black and Hispanic workers are precisely because companies find it easiest with the high unemployment rates among those population groups to impose working conditions most workers would refuse.
Encouraged by the Bush Administration’s benign neglect of anti-trust laws and health and safety controls, the meat processing industry has shut down countless unionized plants across the country, reopening new plants often in the same area, typically manned with immigrant, non-union labor at drastically lower wage levels."
"Tyson runs sixty poultry processing plants engaged in slaughtering, dressing, cutting, packaging, de-boning and further processing fifty million chickens per week."
) as much as we need THEM. (Why isn't there a 'traffic finger' smilie????? 
)
