I am setting it up on a 5X10 tilt trailer. My idea is to keep as much room towards the rear for whatever temporary need I might have. Material hauling, whatever. My cutting torch is mounted under a P/U cross toolbox. Behind that, the Bobcat 250 welder (about 500lbs). The tool box also weighs due to the tools. I have too much tounge weight.
The welder is just barely in front of the axle. I am looking for a transfer system, to shift weight load to over or behind the axles. ?Kinda like a slide out for a RV camping rig? What can I use ?

If you can't find one already made then it should not be too hard to build one yourself. If I were to do that I would do it this way:

4 small fixed castor wheels for mounting on the welder
1" angle iron in the length needed. This will be used as the tracks. I would be sure to put in stops on both ends of the track.
4 quick release pins.
2 gas charged cartrage struts. I would mount these to cushion the welder's movement and to help push it. I would mount them so that they would be pushing it towards the short end of the tracks. Then you could just pull the pins and tilt the trailer to move the welder from side to side or it will just help offset the welder's weight.

I would weld for tabs from the welder down to the 1" angle iron and drill a hole in it that the quick release pins would go through.


It shouldn't be too hard to fab up and it will be custom made to your needs rather than trying to make a trailer slideout mechanism work.

Thanks Doug. I never would have done a slide out though.
I could fab something up on greased channel iron tracks but I thought something may already exist. I was thinking about those conveyor belts comprised of rollers. Something to that effect.

Welder is to far forward, it should be right over the axel.
And unless I read that wrong you have your torches laying down under your toolbox? If so that is a NO, No. tanks should be standing.

Why not just put the toolbox in your pickup where it belongs and have the bobcat on it’s own trailer With the torch tanks like we always did?

Picture?

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-09-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: And unless I read that wrong you have your torches laying down under your toolbox? If so that is a NO, No. tanks should be standing.

Well, I am not sure of correct procedure here but I have heard something to that effect, at least for one tank. However, I do not transport with the regulators attached. I also screw on the valve safety caps.
The tool box has welding paraphanelia in it plus other common tools. I do not need the welding stuff on my truck all the time. I also do not want to load for a job, I want a ready box.
I know that the welder should be over or just behind the axle (considering a loaded tool box and the tanks at the front). It just is not space efficient with my layout. I really would like to be able to shift the welder's weight as needed. My truck has a tow package and I believe that I can handle the tounge weight. I would just like a more balanced trailer.
I will get a picture when I get it rigged up. This is my first set up. I have seen so so many rigs and I like what I am doing. Best of all, it is not costing me a dime, .

Welding bottles should be vertical in use, and transport but I think they can be transported horizontal not sure, never seen it done that way.

It is your rig and you can do it how ever you like Cliff and feel meets your needs best, just be safe.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

It's not just OSHA. I've seen the State Police stop welders around here for transporting horizontal cylinders if the caps weren't on the bottles.

But, my bottles are laying down on my trailer all the time, with regulators and hoses connected, and have been for 2 years. Never had a problem, but then, I never take the trailer off my property.

Mine is rigged with welder, and 50 ft of leads in the front, bottles over the axles, big toolbox right beside the bottles. Workspace, spare steel material, and vice is on the rear. Not pretty to look at, and I move it mostly with a tractor--sometimes with my pickup.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-10-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Welding bottles should be vertical in use, and transport but I think they can be transported horizontal not sure

Hmm ... vertical in use ? Hmm.
Propane can be a liquid or gas, depending on the bottle orientation. Is the same true with oxygen/acetalene ?

Oxy is rarely a problem. Problem supposedly comes from leaving the acetylene bottles laying down while in use. The acet is said to ba able to "settle out", tho the bottles do have some sort of baffles or honeycomb inside to help prevent that from happening.

As I said, I've never had a problem. Worked in a shop once, where 6 bottles were mounted in a rack--vertically, fed a big manifold for a early model automatic patterncutter. Not sure what problems others have had, but we never had one there, and neither have I here.
But, I do know the law is a bit picky about it.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-10-2009).]

I think this is the important part Cliff should be worried about.

1926.350(a)(4)
When cylinders are transported by powered vehicles, they shall be secured in a vertical position.

1926.350(a)(9)
Compressed gas cylinders shall be secured in an upright position at all times except, if necessary, for short periods of time while cylinders are actually being hoisted or carried.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/osh...STANDARDS&p_id=10696

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Hmm ... vertical in use ? Hmm. Propane can be a liquid or gas, depending on the bottle orientation. Is the same true with oxygen/acetalene ?

I'm not sure about the oxygen bottle's characteristics, but the acetylene bottle is half filled with acetone. Never try to use the bottle on its side because you may get acetone coming out with explosive results. The acetylene is disolved in the acetone.

There are numerous regulations for mounting compressed gas cylinders on a vehicle let alone a trailer. Go talk to your local distributor and have them print out the regulations ( and go through the links above ) and find out what kind of mounting hardware they have available. I used to work with Airgas and there are very strict regulations for transporting cylinders, even for personal use. Trailer mounting is very dangerous due to the collision aspects and tanks must be mounted in certain locations for protection from impact collisions and overturning and those mounting requirements are different for different trailer designs.

All cylinders *should* be used in a secured vertical position. Acetelyne *must* be upright for use.

Been using them either way since 1970--probably won't change my habits at this late date, but if that's the way it's supposed to be--listen up CliffW.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Been using them either way since 1970--probably won't change my habits at this late date, but if that's the way it's supposed to be--listen up CliffW.

You can use your tanks any way you wish, on your own property. Once you leave and go onto a public road with them there are many rules and regulations that you need to be aware of. That could cost you a lot of money, and even be dangerous.

I have never laid tanks down on jobsites, against safety rules. Also as others have said certain gasses are in liquid form and laying them down can be dangerous.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Well, I've never put myself or anyone else in harm's way. The fed govt--on the other hand--has tried it's best to kill me more times than I can count.

Once you are on the public roads, you're in danger regardless of what you do.

I didn't live this long and end up in perfect health following govt regulations.


Follow The Rules CliffW!

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-11-2009).]

Good info for the beginner.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/weld/weld.html

Safety regulations are there,

FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY,

ACETYLENE CYLINDERS
These cylinders contain Acetylene under pressure, are painted black, ( small "B" and "MC" tanks can be gray, silver or red ) made of steel and have cylinder valves. They range in size from 10 to almost 400 cuft capacity. The cylinders contain a porous filler material which is wetted with acetone that allows the Acetylene to safely be contained in the cylinder at 250 psig. Always use an Acetylene cylinder in the up right position so you don't draw any of the acetone out of the tank. Only open the cylinder valve 1 to 1 1/2 turns, leaving the valve wrench on the valve in the event it has to be shut off quickly. Acetylene should never be used at a pressure that exceeds 15 psig as it becomes highly unstable which, depending on the condition, could cause it to decompose and explode. As with the Oxygen cylinder, make sure the cylinder valve is clean before installing the regulator.


Forget it, I am not getting into another argument with anyone here about rules or laws.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I'm way more concerned about an Oxygen bottle getting knocked over and the valve assy getting knocked off than I am with anything that might happen with Acetelyene.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I'm way more concerned about an Oxygen bottle getting knocked over and the valve assy getting knocked off than I am with anything that might happen with Acetelyene.

The oxygen is only a gas in the cylinder so having it on it's side isn't a use issue. The concern there is having something fall onto the regulator while it is laying on it's side and snapping it off. The regulator is actually more vulnerable while it is on it's side than with the cylinder standing up and properly secured. I always prefer to use a clam-shell cylinder cap so there is a proper transport cap in place while the regulator is still attached just for that added safety factor.

Just curious.
You make your living from the safety industry?

I used to. I worked in safety for 15 years ( I was an instructor and supervisor ) and decided for a change. There were some changes in policy that I didn't agree with and decided that I didn't want to be a part of it anymore ( for the company that I worked with ) and changed professions. I now work for a friend of mine in his business.

At the risk of repeating, there are valid reasons for the requirements that oxygen and acetylene cylinders be stored, transported, and used upright. As already suggested, acetylene gas at room temperature can detonate spontaneously at pressures higher than 15 to 20 psi ... which should be reason enough to handle it very carefully.

One more thing about acetylene: never use copper pipe and/or fittings with acetylene (brass is generally OK). Not only is copper plumbing specifically prohibited by OSHA, but the reason behind the regulation is that acetylene and copper react to form a high explosive, Copper Acetylide, that is highly unstable at room temperature and is very sensitive to shock. Copper Acetylide was even used in some "experimental" anti-personnel weapons during the Viet Nam war. This is not something you want to experiment with on your own!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-12-2009).]

Thanks all. I gotta have a new plan. Foe my cutting torch bottles. I was so liking what I had done also. It sure sucks knowing that I have seem many a professional welder with them rigged up horizontal on their welding rigs. Even seeing that the safety dicks did not shut them down, .
Just got home. Been up for 39 hours with just an hours sleep.

Something I noticed when I was in the south. You guys don’t care about OSHA regulations.

Not putting you down, just noticed that OSHA was not something that anyone south of the Mason Dixon line even cared about. Many things that would not fly north of there were common place down there.

Is it something southern?

I mean you still think

THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN.

You think you know it all, no mater what the laws or rules or regulations are.

You know it all, even when people here posted legitimate reasons for not laying the tanks down,

Don said I never had a problem, I won’t change.

Hey lucky you have not blown yourself up, lucky you.

Lets just hope your luck holds.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Something I noticed when I was in the south. You guys don’t care about OSHA regulations. Not putting you down, just noticed that OSHA was not something that anyone south of the Mason Dixon line even cared about. Many things that would not fly north of there were common place down there. Is it something southern? I mean you still think THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN. You think you know it all, no mater what the laws or rules or regulations are. You know it all, even when people here posted legitimate reasons for not laying the tanks down, Don said I never had a problem, I won’t change. Hey lucky you have not blown yourself up, lucky you. Lets just hope your luck holds. Steve

I also told Cliff to follow the rules.

No, not big fans of osha. Common sense keeps more people alive than osha ever coud.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I also told Cliff to follow the rules. No, not big fans of osha. Common sense keeps more people alive than osha ever coud.

And common sense says after reading all the above posts, not only from OSHA but other places stating why acetylene tanks should not be used laying down.

You shouldn’t use them in that position, yet you think it is still safe for you. Because you have been lucky.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I never said it was safe--I said I personally never had a problem with it and never saw anyone else have a problem with it,.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: You guys don’t care about OSHA regulations. Is it something southern?

I have no illusions that the South will rise again but I do think. I can not speak for anyone but myself but I do not give a rat's arse for OSHA regulations. I have no problem with OSHA wisdom but I am sick and tired of being sick and tired with government mandates. People need to think how to think for themselves. They should also be allowed to fail. Now, should someone not follow the wisdom of OSHA and it causes an accident, then they should be held to a higher standard. It would not be just an accident. Negligence would be involved and liabilities should increase.
I do like how my rig is set up but I am gonna start from scratch and incorporate vertical bottles. They are after all gas cylinders and gas rises. Not that that fact would get the gases to the cutting torch.
I do want to thank all for the feed back. I'll try to get some pics of the finished rig.

quote and gas rises

Not all gas.
And not always.
I'm pretty sure I've had gas go down my pants leg while sitting on my porch. The cat died immediately and my dog whimpered mournfully and ran off the porch and out into the darkness..

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Not all gas. And not always.

, you are right . Poison gas (H2S) settles.
I pulled some long hours over the weekend and am still trying to wake up.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: It sure sucks knowing that I have seem many a professional welder with them rigged up horizontal on their welding rigs. Even seeing that the safety dicks did not shut them down, . Just got home. Been up for 39 hours with just an hours sleep.

Being where you are I can believe that Cliff, as I said earlier for some reason in the south OSHA and safety are not something they care to much about.

Not putting anyone down, just stating my observations while I was there.

Try and get some sleep.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: They are after all gas cylinders and gas rises.

You are wrong here, and somebody has already posted one reason why. First, the "acetylene" cylinder is actually filled with liquid acetone, into which the acetylene is dissolved. This is done for safety reasons, since gaseous acetylene can be dangerously unstable at only slightly elevated temperature and/or pressure.

Second, not all gases rise ... only those gases that are less dense than the surrounding air. Acetylene will indeed rise in air because it is less dense, but oxygen will actually tend to sink because it is slightly more dense than air.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-13-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Second, not all gases rise ...

I corrected myself. H2S settles. As do Don's farts, .
I have been paying attention to your every word. And, everyone's else's.