..I was dialing thru the radio dial seeking the latest midget or FLYING RODENT bat reports,,or schedualed female mud wrestling . when I caught the last 30 seconds of a discussion about the demise of Camaros,& modified street cars . I miss this important discussion and am very interested ,, Tho Mark has many interesting subjects and is a strong advocate of our military,,Hes a real butt kisser about out boys in uniform and I like this attitude ++ he likes BIG DICK Cheney,one of the greta men od out lifetime The marxist want to end replacing the stock engine with some other than stock ..just another benefit of marxist ,democraps,moderates and other snoopy goverment knows best leftist who want to see your papers !! SUPPORT THE LEGISLATION FOR A CASH BOUNTY ON MARXIST LIBERALS WHO HATE CARS ...
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08:36 AM
PFF
System Bot
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25530 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
..I was dialing thru the radio dial seeking the latest midget or FLYING RODENT bat reports,,or schedualed female mud wrestling . when I caught the last 30 seconds of a discussion about the demise of Camaros,& modified street cars . I miss this important discussion and am very interested ,, Tho Mark has many interesting subjects and is a strong advocate of our military,,Hes a real butt kisser about out boys in uniform and I like this attitude ++ he likes BIG DICK Cheney,one of the greta men od out lifetime The marxist want to end replacing the stock engine with some other than stock ..just another benefit of marxist ,democraps,moderates and other snoopy goverment knows best leftist who want to see your papers !! SUPPORT THE LEGISLATION FOR A CASH BOUNTY ON MARXIST LIBERALS WHO HATE CARS ...
I think, honestly... in the next couple of years, we're going to see (again) the end of high horsepower vehicles. With the newer emissions and fuel economy requirements, cars are pretty much going to become smaller, with smaller engines, or become INSANELY more expensive.
But, it's not like this hasn't happened in the past... this is totally remeniscent of 1971--1974 emissions / legislation era. As we all know, for a little more than an entire decade, cars became enemic, slow pieces of crap. Every manufacturer was hurt by it. But by the mid-80s, car companies started to invest in technology to get more realistic power... like TPI motors, super chargers, turbo chargers, etc...
So, I honestly would expect that 2011-2014 will be a repeate of 1971-1974. 10 years from now (and maybe even sooner) we'll start to see cars re-emerge with smaller motors, better technology, and slightly more power than the previous generation of performance vehicles.
One things for certain...
There are DOZENS of pre 1974 vehicles that you can go buy off the street right now.
I've got a 480 horsepower, 600 foot-lbs of torque, naturally aspirated 1969 Oldsmobile 455 big block, just sitting on an engine stand for the day when I find the RIGHT candidate. I've got a 73 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme... but I just don't know...
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: IThere are DOZENS of pre 1974 vehicles that you can go buy off the street right now.
I've got a 480 horsepower, 600 foot-lbs of torque, naturally aspirated 1969 Oldsmobile 455 big block, just sitting on an engine stand for the day when I find the RIGHT candidate. I've got a 73 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme... but I just don't know...
So YOU are the legendary, mysterious Dr Olds!! I always wondered.
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12:50 PM
Derek_85GT Member
Posts: 1623 From: Flipadelphia, PA Registered: Mar 2005
Again, the Federal Gov't playing where it shouldn't. They should not be dictating what cars can and cannot be made. The public should be doing that with what cars they will or will not buy. I'd rather spend more on gas and drive a V8 or truck that some econo-**** -box.
~ Derek
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01:21 PM
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9115 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
what happened to the right to free trade? (rhetorical question, CAUSE IT'S GONE!) this is when our country starts it's downward spiral into just what we fought against in iraq...
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01:43 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25530 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
A bit off topic ,,but our auto interest is finished ,kaput,, the shifty eyed marxist control freaks are gatting ready to insure we drive socialist approved Cars.. many do not believe this because they are asleep ,,they just do not care ,,let someone else defend me, What huh! what up every thing seems normal,, It is not normal ,,Waxman is drooling to remove all the fun from Fiero land it will take time ..The radicals from the 60s have the power ,,they know you hate them ,,but hope you remain asleep ,,if they can slip in 10 to 15 million mexicans the country is thiers ,,they can not be defeated ..I like some of these policies they make me seem like a visionary.. who remembers the hate against me because of the things I said about Jap cars and the destruction of America ??Oh your memory fails you ?? this is why I ask people to red bar me demanded it ..Because you are anvil headed pacifist who do not want trouble and fear being politically correct.. Mary Jane we would like each other, you know it in your heart but you just think I am weird.. Do not forget they will not send Jane Fonda for your Guns .. the local police will come,, the same cops who said 20 years ago I would never arrest some one for not wearing a seat belt,The marxist/socialist are creeping now they creep faster .. GOD GUNS GUTS AND FIERO,S MADE AMERICA GREAT does any one understand yet??can you admit it .. soon only traitors and the marxist/socialist will drive jap and Goverment motors cars You guys need 2 more years of the Obamanation,if you are a Marine and do not understand ,,you need another turn at the yellow footprints and the grinder Only from with in can America the greatest country of all time ,, with no equal the shining at the top of the hill I have an M1 garand ,80 rounds of ball and the blood I shed for america is nothing ,meaningless ,,The ground I stand on is American ground ..218 222 224 196 (Hansen range, drunk) 226
I think, honestly... in the next couple of years, we're going to see (again) the end of high horsepower vehicles. With the newer emissions and fuel economy requirements, cars are pretty much going to become smaller, with smaller engines, or become INSANELY more expensive.
I'm not sure if I agree.. Europe has been going crazy about the high horsepower race. They're building street cars, sedans, station wagons with 545hp high rev'ing V-10's, insane torque monster V-12 Diesels that can tow 747's, etc. The likes of Audi, BMW, Mercedes. Those cars are also light, and designed to handle on rails for nice curvy roads, or to burn down the Autobahn effortlessly.
Some are wondering when the horsepower race will stop, it's close to getting out of hand. (and killing people financially with taxes. - In Europe vehicles are taxed according to their rated horsepower) A few German magazines would prefer them to put the effort into engineering instead of "masking" vehicle flaws with high horsepower figures and just overpowering weaknesses with brute force. The suggest cars should be lighter, more nimble, and fun to drive at slower speeds. Follow Colin Chapman's (Lotus) mantra: "Simplicate, and add lightness!"
Even in America I recently read an article about restoring an Acura NSX in a Honda tuning magazine. It was said, that "with these extreme mods the Acura NSX might actually make the same horsepower as a generic modern Honda grocery getter" :-p With a hint of being cynical. I can see what they meant. My '99 626 V6 in the highest horsepower version made 170hp/170tq. Now that's the figure for a 4-cylinder base model Mazda 6. The V6's make upwards of 250hp.
Some of my co-workers mock me because my Fiero only makes 140hp (I'm sure some of these horses died of old age after 20 years. ) whereas their Subies, GTi's, Honda's make 200hp-300hp. Some of them don't understand power-to-weight ratios, at the same time they know that 500hp big block's won't be that fast because the car weighs a ton, and will fall off a cliff at the first mountain pass. (their words..)
The V 6 2.8 turns out a thundering 110 gerbil no torque horse power at the rear wheel s HOWEVER there are 1 r 2 a lume in num block & head I hada have a V8 fiero ,that will blow any thing on the street away(2 wheel scooters excepted) Besides soon the great Nipponese rapture will come and all lovers of the Emperors cars and products will be swepetha to Mt FUJI where they will reside in the land of thier true hearts !! America will be such a better place when the people who express thier love the only way they know how,, with thier pocket book to the rising sun..SO SOLLY,, hit the bars in Gotemba for me ONLY FORD IS left,,buy nothing from Goverment Motors,, I choke to say this because now many of the 5th columnist,traitors and other lite weights may buy a mazdVal,, toyhondanambu ,a mitsubitchi zero,,subarubetty , nissony or Kawasakate.I have lived in a tent camp on MT. Fuji you will love it.its a barren ugly place in summer tho.. "" I continue as the cheerleader for the morgue "" Better break out fat belly Ho tie and rub his belly,,better to mount him in a katha(spirit bag) and when the jap waves come, place in your mouth to calm yourself (they do not like americans much ,but enjoy our culture ) I continue my journey for acceptance,,I seek only to please ,, how do you like me now ??
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 06-10-2009).]
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03:19 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
yeah...and lets get leaded fuel back these new fangled fuel injected motors....wtf..... and seatbelts.....airbags....and forcing crash tests.... why cant we let corporations do what they want? lol why do need windshield wipers? and auto insurance? and headlights? wtf is this crap?? and, of course - the drivers license & license plates. of all things. its MY car, why cant I drive where how and as fast as I like? if I wanna race the guy next to me, why cant I?
lol - is it or aint it?
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03:27 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25530 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I'm not sure if I agree.. Europe has been going crazy about the high horsepower race. They're building street cars, sedans, station wagons with 545hp high rev'ing V-10's, insane torque monster V-12 Diesels that can tow 747's, etc. The likes of Audi, BMW, Mercedes. Those cars are also light, and designed to handle on rails for nice curvy roads, or to burn down the Autobahn effortlessly.
Some are wondering when the horsepower race will stop, it's close to getting out of hand. (and killing people financially with taxes. - In Europe vehicles are taxed according to their rated horsepower) A few German magazines would prefer them to put the effort into engineering instead of "masking" vehicle flaws with high horsepower figures and just overpowering weaknesses with brute force. The suggest cars should be lighter, more nimble, and fun to drive at slower speeds. Follow Colin Chapman's (Lotus) mantra: "Simplicate, and add lightness!"
Even in America I recently read an article about restoring an Acura NSX in a Honda tuning magazine. It was said, that "with these extreme mods the Acura NSX might actually make the same horsepower as a generic modern Honda grocery getter" :-p With a hint of being cynical. I can see what they meant. My '99 626 V6 in the highest horsepower version made 170hp/170tq. Now that's the figure for a 4-cylinder base model Mazda 6. The V6's make upwards of 250hp.
Some of my co-workers mock me because my Fiero only makes 140hp (I'm sure some of these horses died of old age after 20 years. ) whereas their Subies, GTi's, Honda's make 200hp-300hp. Some of them don't understand power-to-weight ratios, at the same time they know that 500hp big block's won't be that fast because the car weighs a ton, and will fall off a cliff at the first mountain pass. (their words..)
Well, to be fair, I don't think you fully understand what I said.
Back in 1957... the horsepower race started to take hold. It really became apparent with the production of the 64 Pontiac GTO. Horsepower figures continued to climb again and again every year until about the end of 1970. What we do, and what we sell in America doesn't really have an effect on what everyone else produces
From about 1971 to 1980 cars continued to decrease in horsepower. A Pontiac 400 went from producing well over 400 horsepower in 1970 to producing less than 200 horsepower by 1979. Engines died away, and were replaced with smaller and smaller engines.
It was then a few years of basically no change, and then performance started to pick up again in the mid 80s. It continues now... and this INCLUDES everything from 700 horsepower Corvettes, to 300 horsepower Toyota Camrys. All that will change though... there is simply no way you can produce 300 horsepower from a cost effective and reliable grocery getter commuter car while getting 35 miles to the gallon and making the car affordable. it's not impossible, but it's not cheap. So I expect that sometime around 2010, we will see another 6-8 year continuous decline in performance cars and an immediate hit in actual performance.
Make no mistake about it though, during 1971-1989, companies like Ferrari, Mercedes, etc... were still continuing to produce huge horsepower engined vehicles... but they typically were either not allowed to be sold here because they didn't meet our emissions or standards, or came over in small numbers.
Perfect example, the early Porsche 928 with the mechanical fuel injection. The European version had something like 10:1 compression with over 300 horsepower, while the one exported to the US made no more than 215 horsepower. This continued all through the 80s in every Porsche model.... even the Porsche 944. The same went with Japanese cars. There was such a thing known as "EuroSpec" and "Japanese Spec" cars... that's because the higher horsepower ones were available elsewhere from the US.
I think we're seeing the end of our "current" horsepower war... and I expect it to end in 2010. I think though, we should see big HP again when technology catches up, as it always does... 6-8 years from then.
and, have we not always been allowed to have Track Cars? even in 1975, it seems you could drive whatever you liked on a race track. you can build the most foul soot machine, which runs on whale oil, if you like.
) whereas their Subies, GTi's, Honda's make 200hp-300hp. Some of them don't understand power-to-weight ratios, at the same time they know that 500hp big block's won't be that fast because the car weighs a ton, and will fall off a cliff at the first mountain pass. (their words..)
