I've been tempted to pick up an RC plane for quite awhile. I've never been a big fan of learning anything the easy way so when I finally broke down and ordered a 'beginner' plane, I picked an electric ducted fan F86 Sabre (ARF kit).
A couple pics from a review...
Too bad they don't make an F105; at least I'd have a good excuse if it goes 'thud'
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11:45 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 22nd, 2007
jetman Member
Posts: 7805 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
If you fly that thing too close to Selfridge Air Force Base this weekend, they'll shoot you down.
What a beautiful jet, great lines and electric ducted, looks like alot of fun. Alot of RC pilots take video of their flights, you know, to help critique their flying skills afterwards, and er, um, not so gentle landings.
That doesn't exactly look like a trainer but you can't fly into MIG Alley with a Sopwith Camel. Good luck and be sure to tell us all about the exciting adventures!
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12:07 AM
88GTNeverfinished Member
Posts: 1809 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Feb 2003
Electric ducted fan? I'll admit I've been out of the game for a while but does electric put out enough thrust to get that thing off the ground and keep it there with decent performance for any length of time?
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01:30 AM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
Thats a sharp looking plane. I don't want to get you spirits down but if you haven't flown before you should get a high wing trainer with a generous amount of dihedral in the wings. The trainer aircraft really are the best way to start/learn. They help get your hand eye cordination up and they are more easy to control since they want to "right" themself. I learned the hard way by crashing a gas powered messershmit 109. Man i miss that plane . I picked up a .40 sized trainer that was almost ready to fly and was flying the same day. I picked up on controlling it and was ready for something more aerobatic in a week. Have fun with it in any case.
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
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09:30 AM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
I don't want to get you spirits down but if you haven't flown before you should get a high wing trainer with a generous amount of dihedral in the wings.
Sound advice for sure. I'm seriously looking at a trainer, the more I think about it.
It is a-flipping-mazing what they're doing in RC these days...
You bet, there are SOOOO many options now, for pretty durable beginner planes/helicopters/etc. I was surpried to see that this jet can take off from the ground...!
Have fun with it!
I bought a transformer "starscresm" plane, but have yet to fly it. looks neat though...
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06:29 PM
litespd Member
Posts: 8128 From: No where you want to be Registered: Aug 99
You should check out E-Flites line. There all electric. They even make a ducted fan airliner that about 5 feet long. Surprised you went with a jet for a beginner. Usually the best for beginners are high wing ratio planes like Cubs and Cessnas as far as scale. A friend of mine a little older flew real Sabres in Korea and loved them. Dogfights had Mig 15s & Sabres last friday. Ive got like a 6' F4 Phantom done in the paint scheme and insignias of a real one I flew. It has twin gas turbines though. Havent flown it for 10-15 years now though...hanging in living room. It cracked 200+ mph by radar at Jet Scramble here. Im looking at a nice scale foam electric cub just to goof around with. I have an EFlight CX2 helicopter thats fun except for when your replacing damaged blades. Luckily 4 spares come in a pack for $8.
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04:19 PM
The Poopsmith Member
Posts: 1154 From: Portland, OR Registered: Mar 2005
If your cheap like me but also don't like going outdoors check out the Air-Hogs RC line of toys. You can pick them up at Wal-Mart for very cheap and they are pretty fun and definitely good for beginners. I picked up the Havoc Helicopter and while it's not a stunning machine it is pretty fun to tool around my living room. I need to try one of the actual planes but it is not high on my list of things to spend money on. I don't know what other set up you can buy for $40 including the controller but minus the batteries. And as for the batteries I would suggest buying rechargeable batteries so you don't go bankrupt buying double As. I actually heard about these from another forum member.
Daniel
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10:23 PM
Jul 24th, 2007
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Most of the electric planes now use a special ion wafer type battery. They can get expensive. I spent close to $80 for a couple of extras for my helo. Reg rechargeables are too heavy for the output needed except in the bigger planes.
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07:48 AM
Jul 25th, 2007
Chicken McNizzle Member
Posts: 1310 From: Valencia, CA Registered: Jan 2004
They're called Li-Po ( Lithium Polymer )... I've got them onboard my Walkera 36 Heli, and my Echo 1 G36X airsoft machine gun. The best thing about them is they do not retain a memory over time like a NiCad or NiMh, are MUCH lighter, and provide as much as 3 to 4 times as much flight time ( or shooting time if at the airsoft range ).
Your next step with the plane should be a brushless motor w/ corresponding speed control. I get all my stuff real cheap at www.eHirobo.com
Well, upon further consideration I decided to pick up a foam Cessna 182 4-channel trainer plane.
It arrived with a bunk battery pack, so I just assembled and tested everything and got ahold of the dealer on a replacement battery. In the meantime I got the F86 put together and wired everything up.
Since both are 3-cell 11.1V Li-Po batteries, I figured I'd make up an adapter to use the F86 battery in the Cessna. The flight time won't be as long since it's a 1200 mAh pack instead of the 1800 mAh that came with it, but it should be okay for a substitute in the meantime. I'm just hunting around for a little extra weight to toss up there to preserve the center of gravity as designed.
It's a little windy out right now, but I'm hoping it calms down later and I might just head out to a nearby Jr high school and take a little self-taught crash course in RC piloting There are some pretty tall weeds in the ditchbank over there, so I might make the first landing attempt into them. We'll see.
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 07-29-2007).]
Electric ducted fan? I'll admit I've been out of the game for a while but does electric put out enough thrust to get that thing off the ground and keep it there with decent performance for any length of time?
That was my thought too, i tried doing that when i was a kid and just never could get them to fly, unless i threw it
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03:20 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Electric ducted fan? I'll admit I've been out of the game for a while but does electric put out enough thrust to get that thing off the ground and keep it there with decent performance for any length of time?
To keep weight and drag down, the F86 has no landing gear; it's hand-launched. But with the Li-Po battery, micro electronics, and hollow foam construction the total weight of the plane ends up at about 16 oz with a wing area of 200 square inches. The ducted fan unit kicks out around 9 oz of thrust max while turning about 40k rpm and pulling about 8 amps from a 1200 mAh pack. Flight time ends up at around 9 minutes at full throttle; 12 minutes or so at 3/4 throttle.
I have zero firsthand experience so far, but from what I've read from other owners there's enough thrust to weight ratio for fairly spirited flying. I'm itching to find out
Hey DB just remember this. As soon as you climb to a comfortable altitude be sure to pull the throttle back some. I always would forget to throttle down and was chasing the plane because it was hauling a$$. Im not sure if the electrics have gobs of extra power like my gas plane did. Just remember , it's easier to stay ahead of a slower flying plane than one that is zorching across the sky. Have fun and don't forget the pics !
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
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07:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Aug 18th, 2007
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
I flew the cessna for about 10 seconds before having an 'emergency hard landing' - right on the prop spinner. It obliterated the front 3-4 inches of the fuselage.... total write-off.
I had an old .18 glow size trainer plane in the attic; so I retrofitted it for electric and reused all the components off the cessna. (after beating the shaft back into the motor). First flight was anticlimactic; the wing snapped in two before leaving the ground. Must have gotten some nitro fuel soaked into it up in the attic. At this point I figured I'd had enough of trainers and was ready to move up to a sport plane
I bought a 'simple stick' sport plane and a new motor and got to work on it...
In the meantime I picked up an RC flight sim to get some more of the crashing out of the way while I got the simple stick put together.
Today I went out to give the stick a try; It was a little windier than I'd have liked, but WTH...
The first flight lasted a few minutes; I got it off the ground, circle the field a couple times (learning to fight the wind), and make a decent landing approach. As soon as the landing gear touched the grass it folded up though, and creased the bottom of the front end a bit.
After looking things over a little, I decided to go for a second flight with a hand-launch. Circled the field a few more times and brought it down with no more damage.
We returned home to recharge the battery, remove the landing gear, and tighten up the motor mount a little (it worked loose just a tad). Aside from a little crinkling of the foam on the underside of the nose, everything looked fine.
We returned to the field for another go, and I got a little braver. I did a few barrel rolls and loops with it, and was thinking I'd make an inverted pass over the field for a photo op... judgement got the better of me though; no inverted pass I'll got for that another time.
But now I have three (controlled) flights under my belt and still have a flyable plane to show for it. And lots of pics
I'm holding off on flying the Saber for a while though. When I get good and comfy with the simple stick and have a nice calm day I'll give it a shot.
Pics to follow...
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 08-18-2007).]
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04:40 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
On the next trip out, we strapped my cousin's wireless video cam on... The cam didn't want to stay level; it kept looking down as if to say 'get me the he#$ down from here' Anywho, I just got it up on youtube. Turn your sound down though; the prop noise came through pretty loud.
You did great! Loved the video, I was holding my breath a couple of times, saw buildings and trees really close but you made a couple of perfect landings! That was really cool, a little more stick time and you'll be ready for "Mig Alley' in your Sabre jet.
For the first five flights yesterday I used the 2-cell 7.4V LiPo battery suggested for this motor and speed controller... but after the fifth (video cam) flight it occurred to me that I had a fully charged 3-cell 11.1V LiPo (for the Sabre) sitting there ready to go. I strapped it on and the center of gravity still felt pretty close to the same... so I tried it out with 50% more power
With the 3-cell pack, the stick exceeded the magic 1:1 thrust to weight ratio and could fly straight vertical. I got a little braver and flew it inverted clear across the field, shoved the stick full forward, and threw it into an outside loop to bring it back around. This thing flies really well for a $30 airframe with a $16 brushless motor But with the 3-cell battery, the motor got pretty hot and the electronics smelled a little toasty after flying for about 7 or 8 minutes. I should probably stick to the 7.4V setup in the future. Maybe I can stick a few GTX-R stickers on it for better performance
After a total of six belly landings, all the damage the plane has is a bit of a crunch on the bottom of the fuselage. Its foam sheeting construction wasn't really designed with belly landing in mind.
Last night I dug up a scrap piece of aluminum (from a door jam), cut it to size, bent it a little, and epoxied it on to make a landing skid for the nose. That should eliminate the damage from future belly landings.
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 08-19-2007).]
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02:24 PM
Aug 26th, 2007
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Well, after a few more successful flights with the simple stick, I started eyeballying the Sabre... but I decided to plot one more point in the learning curve. I got looking for something that could carry the 1800 mAh LiPo pack and use the 18A electronic speed controller left over from the crashed Cessna... Something with a low wing, a little smaller span, and a higher top speed
It's a bird ! It's a plane ! It's a JUG !!!
I just finished getting it put together today; if it's nice and calm tomorrow I might try a maiden flight.
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12:20 AM
drumwzrd Member
Posts: 236 From: San Mateo,Ca Registered: Aug 2006
We had some beautiful weather around here this evening; and my cousin just finished getting his new slow stick ready to fly after work. So we went over to the junior high football field to break it in. In about the same timeframe, I got my simple stick repaired from yesterday's beating. (I got a bit too low while flying around inverted and landed it on the rudder. Apparently that's not not recommended.)
My cousin's slow stick came out just fine, putting around nicely. He was pretty happy to finally have something working to start learning on. On his third landing he snapped his prop in two though, so we had to hang it up for the time being.
I got out the simple stick and tried my darndest to tear the wings off it, climbing as high as I could go and still see where it was pointing; then screaming down at the football field in a powerdive. Man that thing's darn near bulletproof. I'm impressed that a styrofoam wing held up to the climb-out I gave it. All in all, I had it up and down three more times before the battery was drained.
I had one plane left that was juiced up and ready to go; so I couldn't resist trying it. We ran back home and grabbed the 'Jug...
I gave it about 2/3 throttle, Dave gave it a toss, and it was off and running. Holy #@$& does that thing move I stayed halfway sane with it for a couple minutes getting a feel for it; but then I couldn't resist doing a few little loops and rolls (and powerdiving it to see how fast I could get it going). It flew beautifully, except for a minor tendency for the alerons to not quite return to center... but who wants to go in a straight line anyway After I had brought it down, I realized in my excitement I hadn't tried inverting it. So I had to run it up one more time. This thing does not like to fly upside down; it took almost full elevator to hold altitude. I guess outside loops are not on the menu... Anyway, I got two good flights (and two perfect landings) in before I figured the battery was ready to call it a day.
A few more outings with the P-47 and I'll no longer have any excuse not to maiden the Sabre jet.....
(edit to add some pics)
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 08-27-2007).]
That P47 Thunderbolt AKA "JUG" is cool. I too am going to jump into the RC plane hobby. I have NEVER flown anything so I am gonna order up a SlowStick and start there....
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11:58 AM
PFF
System Bot
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
The slo stick is very forgiving; looks like a nice first plane. Still, I'd STRONGLY endorse practicing on a flight sim also. Not all of them cost $200.
There's a free one called "FMS" that's okay... graphics and sound aren't very good, but flight model is decent and there are tons of downloadable planes for it. "ClearView" has a free 40 minute demo download, and only runs $40 to buy the full version... nice graphics and accurate flight model. Both of these work with a regular joystick or the $20 Esky controller.
I think there's a demo download of Great Planes Realflight out there too.
The sims model the behavior of the planes very well. They give you a chance to get used to the 'reverse coordination' while flying the plane toward yourself; and the disorientation that you get when you fly the plane directly overhead. The only thing they don't model well is wind gusts.
I had zero flying experience to start with (as evidenced by the way I wasted a perfectly good Cessna 182 aleron trainer in about 5 seconds of flying), and after fooling with Realflight for a week I had no problem handling the Simple Stick (foam, 42" span, straight wing... mild aerobatic sport plane).
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 08-28-2007).]
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05:32 PM
Sep 1st, 2007
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Well, I finally flew the Sabre jet this evening. It really screams ! At full throttle it was all I could do to keep up with it; at 2/3 throttle it was nice and docile. After about 5 minutes flight time it started developing a weird ringing sound to the motor whine though, so I had to set her down. Tonight I need to check to see if maybe the fan rotor is coming loose or something.
Earlier I kinda doinked a landing with the P47; no apparent damage but the motor sounded a little funny afterward. I tore everything down and nothing seemed bent or loose.... oh well. Charged it up and went out to fly again. On the repeat flight (after successfully maidening the Sabre) I had everything all trimmed nice, the motor stopped making the noise, everything was going perfect. The sun was going down, so I could use the rest of the field, out over the school... I was turning the plane around out over top of the building and it hit some RF interference and just wigged out. It quit responding to the control, rolled about 135 degrees right, and went down hard on the roof
I got up on the roof and retrieved the remains. The poor plane looks like it took a flak round; it was a complete write-off. But the battery, radio, speed control, servos, and a few other pieces are still usable. I was really digging that plane.
I just ordered another just like it
Now, to see what the heck is up with the Sabre. I really want to fly it again tomorrow.
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09:59 PM
Sep 2nd, 2007
jetman Member
Posts: 7805 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Oh man alive, sorry to hear about it. What caused the RF interference, high tension power lines? Low battery power? Any ideas on how to avoid it next time? Did you get the crash on video?
Al I can say is that you did better than I ever could, I'd have that Jug in a zillion pieces on the maiden flight, at least you got a couple of flights out of it. Any chance you could repair it, keep it as a expendable trainer?
Please get a video of the Sabre, we got to see that, it looks so cool.
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09:38 AM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
My cousin got the Sabre flight (and the P47 crash) on video; when I get them from him I'll post them up.
I'm pretty sure I hit a bunch of interference with the P47 yesterday. The glare of the sun usually keeps me from flying out toward the school, so as not to lose sight of the plane. That last flight the sun had just gone down behind the building so I figured I'd circle around the building and set up for a low full throttle pass across the whole football field for the camera When I lost the plane it was about 40 feet up in a wide turn directly over a section of the rooftop where a whole bunch of air handlers and machinery were running. I'm pretty sure the machinery was giving off enough interference to jam the plane's radio receiver. The machinery is all shrouded behind a wall so it's not visible from the field below; I didn't know it was up there till I climbed up on the roof to retreive the plane.
I think it was just a matter of time before one of us flew over that spot and lost a plane; We'll just have to stay away from that general area in the future. Live and learn.
.....yeah, my cousin was the first to say it..... "That'll buff right out"
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 09-02-2007).]
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10:19 AM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Hey D.B., you gotta watch out man, this hobby will drain your wallet like no other! This is the reason my Aurora project has not been finished yet. Well R/C and too much heat this summer...
Are your warbirds the ALFA brand sold by HobbyLobby? I am on my second ALFA corsair and my brother has a whole list of the things amongst other models. We have found this brand to be quite fast with a TP1320 11.1v battery and a 950-1050kv AXI outrunner motor. We are using the CC Phoenix 25 esc's to run the motors. The reason I am on my second corsair is that my brother cut the wing in half with his P-51D prop while we were doing mock Reno style racing. He kept flying, my bird went down hard... Here are a couple of pics of the fleet...
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03:40 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Nice fleet you've got there Bummer about the midair collision.
Both my warbirds are the HL Alfa kits. The P47 was (and the replacement will be) running the MPJet AC 28/7-35D (blue) outrunner on an 8x6 prop, 18A ESC, and 3-cell PQ "twenty" 1200 mAh LiPo pack. The Sabre runs the same battery, 18A Jeti ESC, and the 'stock' MPJet 25/25/26 brushless inrunner. I'm thinking of building up another fan unit with the Himax 25-5300 inrunner if the original fan unit gets worse. It's sounding kinda 'wrong' but can't really be disassembled once put together, so I'm gonna run it and see what happens.
My 'grab and go' plane is the Simple Stick from Hobby People. Right now I'm running it with the EMax 1800 mAh 3-cell LiPo and 4 channel radio I got with that RTF Cessna I destroyed, a cheapie 18A ESC from Hobby People, and a Rimfire 28-26-1300 outrunner. I cobbled on the landing gear from the Cessna, and have replaced the rudder with a chunk of coroplast (I got a little low flying inverted and ran outta options, so I set it down inverted rather than trying anything desperate). All in all, I love that ugly sob for it's ability to 'just fly' no matter what I do to it. It's become a flying testbed for different ideas
Now to find a scale Fiero body to glue on it
I can't wait for HL to get ahold of the soon-to-be-released Flying Styro A10 Warthog kit
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 09-03-2007).]
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04:05 PM
Sep 8th, 2007
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
I've been trying different motor / battery / prop and landing gear combinations out on the Simple Stick; Thursday afternoon at lunchtime I ran over to the Prop Shop and went nutzo on go-fast parts
Now I'm running an E-Flite Park 480 outrunner and 11x7E prop on it, and have nice big landing gear that can handle setting down on a grass field. (the smaller gear had a strong tendency to dig in to the grass and skid rather than roll across it)
I also gave the plane a little makeover last night
What do ya think ?
[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 09-08-2007).]
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02:11 PM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
so when I finally broke down and ordered a 'beginner' plane, I picked an electric ducted fan F86 Sabre (ARF kit). 
I'll got for that another time.
Here are a couple of pics of the fleet... 
