I was having a discussion with my best friend when he told me about how is fiance did not like him watching pornagraphy. She felt that it was cheating. So we started talking about it and then it was brought up that his fiance reads romantic novels and likes to watch chick flicks where she swoons over the hunky male characters. Men may pick up a few new things to try in the sack. Women pick up a bunch of things that men should do to be "romantic." We both concluded that when we get dragged in to a chick flick that the woman that we are with expects us to come out of it with new ideas to be more romantic in our relationships. We also noticed that women tend to get emotional attachments to the male characters in the chick flicks. If we make any negative remarks about what a wuss that guy was or how dumb the romantic things are that he did, we catch hell for it.

We came to a few conclusions:

1. Men have a pure animalistic physical attraction to women in pornagraphy.
2. Woman have an emotional attraction to the males in their romance novels and chick flicks.


It is popular to say that pornography is wrong but why is it OK for women to get away with their emotional cheating? Which one is closer to cheating?

both
this is why God said "no others god's besides me" - jealousy is universal
ANYTHING which detracts from your interest in your partner
I cheat on my wife with my Fiero. She calls it my mistress

but - none of it is official until the pants come down

and, this is where most guys watching **** lose - if, ya know what I mean

First let me say this: actions speak louder than words.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT ... We came to a few conclusions: 1. Men have a pure animalistic physical attraction to women in pornagraphy. 2. Woman have an emotional attraction to the males in their romance novels and chick flicks. ...

You're almost there. I have a feeling this is a sh*t test. Will he succumb to her wishes or will he be his own man? They're not married yet, even if they were. It's kinda like the sh*t test that everyone fails. "Okay, now what are you gonna do with this pu**y?" If he supplicates he's screwed, if he goes too far the other way, he's screwed.

Now from a pure psychological standpoint: Men are visual creatures, women are emotional creatures. Men react better to visual stimuli than to emotional stimuli, women are the opposite. Ever wonder why there are some really hot chicks with ugly guys? Well there are a couple of reasons, one is she's cheating, another is that he knows how to push all the right buttons to keep her on an emotional roller coaster. Do you ever wonder WHY girls read those sappy romance novels? For the exact same reason guys won't touch them. They are an emotional roller coaster.

I hate to get into attraction theory (that's a lie) but here goes: A woman will be more attracted to a man that can ping her emotions to both ends of the spectrum. For the same reason that it gets tiring to be at a high-energy emotional state for long periods of time, women quickly tire of the "doormat" who at first brought her great joy, but in his effort to continue that never lets her down. They'll never admit to it (most aren't self-aware enough to even realize it) but these "pings" of high emotion (positive and negative) draw the girl in. Why do you think the jocks who don't care what they say or who they offend get the girls? Many of them don't know either, but it's an Alpha Male trait to say what you think, even if it's offensive to some.

Sorry if i went a little off topic there (we are in T/OT after all). But my advice in the end is you can't compare **** to her romance novels or chick flicks. **** is a touchy subject for a lot of girls for one reason or another (in North America anyway). Your friend is better off just telling her that he understands her objection, but that his view is that watching **** isn't emotional cheating. Emotional cheating would be if he had a female confidante.

^ lol - yes, and the women who keep going back to abusive men. any attention - even bad - is better than no attention.

Women watch all the shows like Desperate Housewives that Ive found almost as bad as X rated movies. It dont take the graphic views. Just the insinuation on a tv show that dont show it can be just as stimulating, as can definately just words in a novel. I guess Im lucky that a lot of my female friends like watching X movies, sometime more than I do. Its ridiculous to me to be jealous of either. Some people have foot fetishes...does that mean his gf shouldnt let him watch a show on Discovery about feet...

I think only the person doing it can be the real judge, and do you trust yourself to be objective? If the question came up in your own mind, I would suspect that was your concience.

Also there are alot of people who only see things others do, but do not notice themselves doing it, she could be one of those.

"Cheating" is one thing, Envy is another, but niether are good.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-18-2008).]

Cheating? Name which genital penetrated a person it's owner wasn't married to or dating.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Why is it OK for women to get away with their emotional cheating? Which one is closer to cheating?

Hmm, let me see. If the g/f or wife screams another guys name in bed.... well that's a clue.
IMO, the end results is about the same for both sexes. If the g/f or wife is aroused by reading the material, isn't it same as a guy being aroused by viewing x-rated material?

If the g/f or wife yells another guy name in bed, isn't just the same as a guy yelling a video vixan's name in bed?

If the g/f or wife after reading the romance adventures bounce on her b/f or husband in bed the same as a guy after viewing x-rated material doing the same?

Are not both the romance characters or video vixens a persons "perfect" in body, sensualness, and wealthy? Compare that to his not-so-exciting g/f or wife. Either way the g/f nor the wife can't live-up to the professional video queen no can the b/f nor husband live-up to the romance characters.

maybe we need to define "cheating", eh?
most folk draw the line with physical contact of pink parts.

but, I suppose an "emotional friend" could make for problems.....

If anyone is still looking for clearly drawn lines. It is defined as sin to lust after someone who is not your wife, in the Bible. That would mean to think about them in a sexual manner.

If you intend to get an answer from the society we live in, watch TV on any given evening and see it happen, and joked about. There is your answer, it is a no holds barred free for all. But when the divorce hammer falls, pull out your wallet.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-18-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 2.5: If anyone is still looking for clearly drawn lines. It is defined as sin to lust after someone who is not your wife, in the Bible. That would mean to think about them in a sexual manner. If you intend to get an answer from the society we live in, watch TV on any given evening and see it happen, and joked about. There is your answer, it is a no holds barred free for all. But when the divorce hammer falls, pull out your wallet.

yes, and I think thats how this thread got started. comparing the male visual lust vs the female emotional lust.

because, as determined by US president - BJ's are just fine. I'd hope that applies to buying them as well

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I suppose an "emotional friend" could make for problems.....

The word, "emotional" friend is dogs best friend. Guys have a hard time keeping it real "emotionally" when their second head is doing the talking.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Compare that to his not-so-exciting g/f or wife. Either way the g/f nor the wife can't live-up to the professional video queen no can the b/f nor husband live-up to the romance characters.

That is the biggest problem. It is a totally unfair comparison.

Even if it wasn't unfair because in either case it isn't reality--the physical is often "enhanced", either by surgery or make-up and in the case of the emotional, it is a fantasy depiction of a relationship that doesn't involve ALL of the REAL portions that make up a long-term relationship--it is TOTALLY unfair anyway.

It is human nature to like variety. So even if you DID have the perfect physical specimen, or the perfect personality person, after a while they aren't NEW.

And to compare something "new" to something you have had around for 5 or for 10 years, the "new" thing will be more appealing just due to our liking variety.
The root of the problem, then, is that BOTH situations are unfair, no-win comparison situations and are both bad. You can have a contest about which is worse. Fine. That contest has NO winners.

Touching of errogenous zones are cheating to me. The rest is just window dressing. Even a platonic kiss is not cheating to me. Men will be attracted to other females, and women will be attracted to other males. What is done with that attraction will tell the story of how your mate feels about you, and how well your relationship is going.JMHO.

Jane

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Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality

There's a difference between attraction and lusting.

And before your friend starts a fight, let him know he can be right or he can be happy, but not both.

[This message has been edited by IEatRice (edited 12-18-2008).]

As a very good friends wife told me one evening when we were teasing her about us taking clients out to a strip bar they wanted to go to.

Her words, I don't care where Jerry develops his appetite, just as long as he comes home to eat with me.

Now, that was a very secure woman and she knew she had no reason to worry about Jerry roaming or checking out the menu at any other establishments.

Cheating starts in the mind. Whether it goes to the next step is up to the participants.

Ron

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: That is the biggest problem. It is a totally unfair comparison. The root of the problem, then, is that BOTH situations are unfair, no-win comparison situations and are both bad. You can have a contest about which is worse. Fine. That contest has NO winners.

Yeah, but I'm sticking with the original points in the thread used; romance novels and x-rated film thus I'm just stating the facts. No guy is going to rent a x-rated film with a girl who is on the same level as his g/f or wife; otherwise, he'll film himself and her getting it on, right?

No g/f or wife is going to read a romance novel about a over weight balding guy with no job, right?

That is perhaps one of the reason why both sexes (some) use these deadly aids in their relationship. They actually want to leave the relationship, but can't so they get involved in these aids thinking that it will solve their issues or a means of excapisum. In the end, it usually back fires resulting in divorce.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: That is perhaps one of the reason why both sexes (some) use these deadly aids in their relationship. They actually want to leave the relationship, but can't so they get involved in these aids thinking that it will solve their issues or a means of excapisum. In the end, it usually back fires resulting in divorce.

Well put.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: No g/f or wife is going to read a romance novel about a over weight balding guy with no job, right?

Well, I guess I'll move to plan B.

Ron

I actually have no desire to see male dancers anymore, but I wouldn't opt out if that's what my friends wanted to do. Most of my friends are single. I eat at home. Most women know that they aren't going to find a man that is perfect in every way, they just like to read about one sometimes. It doesn't hurt to dream. I don't think it signals that she is unhappy in her relationship. In the same vein, I don't think it hurts for a man to see a pron sometimes either. I don't think it signals that he is unhappy in his relationship either. But what do I know. Sometimes you have to escape your life for a while and recharge.

Jane

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Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality

quote Originally posted by calamityjane: Sometimes you have to escape your life for a while and recharge. Jane

Hi Jane.

That is YOUR response. Very healthy.

Here is a not uncommon ALTERNATE response:

Why can't MY spouse be...?
Why can't MY spouse look like...?

I'm not getting what I NEED or DESERVE. I think I'll start looking elsewhere.


For some people, it gives them a distorted, unrealistic expectation level that fosters discontent. I would say from observing our culture, the "some" isn't a small number.

Hey, here's another one. Forget the romance novel reading. How about the chat room reading? Another source of "fiction writing" that has led to discontent ending in broken marriages.

Hi frontal lobe. I've been working a lot.

That is a fault in the people of unrealistic expectations of other people. If nothing short of perfect will satisfy them, then they will always be unhappy. That is not the fault of the entertainment material. People who think real life is supposed to be like that are not based in reality. It is in the fiction section for a reason.

Jane

PS: Those who will believe anything written to them in a chat room are just naive.
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Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality

[This message has been edited by calamityjane (edited 12-18-2008).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: No g/f or wife is going to read a romance novel about a over weight balding guy with no job, right?

Hey, I think I just found my writing project for the year. What an audience -- if done well, both women AND men would buy this book $$

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: maybe we need to define "cheating", eh? most folk draw the line with physical contact of pink parts. but, I suppose an "emotional friend" could make for problems.....

i draw it at lip or body to other person at at all in a sexual way contact she kisses another man, its cheating..

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: he can be right or he can be happy, but not both.

LOL ain't that the truth

is it cheating? Depends what the definition of 'is' is.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: is it cheating? Depends what the definition of 'is' is.

I didn't know Bill Clinton joined the forum. Sorry, couldn't help it.

Paul

Glad someone "got it".

ill be the 1st one to admit it and im gona sound like a perve over it but everything iv learned in the bed came from some kinda porno material or another. and to tell you the truth and i dont mean to brag i havent had one complaint yet

LOL, I know a few girls from my past that def could have used some good movies to at least get some idea of what to do....

Wow, if looking at other women is cheating, then most men are cheating ALL THE TIME, and the rest are gay. If you change looking at other women to "looking at other people", every man (and woman) cheats.

The man that isn't interested in other women probably isn't all that interested in his wife either. Big deal, its just a fantasy, once you exchange phone numbers, then its cheating

Same argument my wife and I have all the time.

She loves her pron books, but lord help me if she finds any racy pictures on one of my computers.

Brad

Here's something nobody probably knows.

Men and Women are very different in what stimulates them.

Can I get a group DUH ?

While we all know that, the thread itself indicates we either deny it or don't believe it. Men are excited by their tactile senses. Visual, audio, smell, taste. It's that simple. Women are not. The vast majority need to have some kind of emotional connection (unless they're pros at it and very good at faking it) to have the same type of responses as men do to a partner.

To that end, men tend to enjoy going to gentleman's clubs, watching more risque movies, and reading materials that are very graphic in nature. Women look for more subtle things that almost always revolve around emotional attachments.

To say that men watch and go to these kinds of things because they want their SO to be like that is not particularly true, IMHO. It's just that it's something men enjoy. Most women do not. Likewise, most men could give a flying fart about watching Kevin Costner being romanced/romancing in "Message In A Bottle" (one of the most boring movies I've ever watched, and that tells you what the selection was like the night I watched that little gem on the satellite). Now if that movie would have had his boat blow up, or showed some boobies, it would have held a lot more interest for males as a group.

There's a double standard here too. Women read this stuff, watch these movies, and then honestly expect/wish their husbands would "romance" them like that. Don't believe me? Look at the women's magazines. What's the "test of the month"? How many articles about how to change "your man"? That's unreasonable. Yet there are still shows on like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" where wives/girlfriends dump their SO's off with a couple of gay guys to "learn" whatever it is they have to teach them. As Jeff Foxworthy, that noted social commentator, says, what do you suppose would happen if we dropped the wives/SO's off at the Bunny Ranch with instructions to "Just Slut Her Up a Little". That would go over well, wouldn't it? Oh no, we are just supposed to accept them as the individuals they are, while in their minds we are always a work in progress.

Another wise social commentator who's name I don't know once wrote "Men marry thinking their girlfriends will never change and Women marry thinking they can change their men. Neither are ever satisfied." and there's a lot of truth to that. It does point something out, though. As a general rule, women will do whatever they think they need to do to catch that guy, including sexual favors, no matter if the boyfriend is treating them like crap, thinking they will change once they're in a monogamous relationship. The guys don't change, but in many, MANY cases the women do. A lot. Then the guys go to various other venues trying to find what the wives used to be like as girlfriends. And of course, it's always the guys' fault..........

This part of Doug's post really bothers me:

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: We both concluded that when we get dragged in to a chick flick that the woman that we are with expects us to come out of it with new ideas to be more romantic in our relationships.

What the heck, Doug, has she snipped them off or what? If you don't want to go to a movie, why would you let anyone drag you to it? For crying out loud, life's too darn short to waste two hours doing something you'd really rather not be doing for no apparent gain.

If you say the 'gain" is that you avoid an argument and keep her happy, I say she needs to grow up and realize you and she may not like the same things and "compromise" does not necessarily mean you have to suffer through a movie you don't want to watch.

My wife teaches Taekwando. She goes to tournaments. She goes to schools and classes for it. She does that on her own because she enjoys it and I don't. Good for her. She's all growed up and has found the things she likes to do. I like to work corners at road races and go racing myself. She goes from time to time, and she's always welcome to come, but she doeen't really enjoy it much and I don't expect her to go. In about another month, when the tournament and racing schedules come out, we'll both write them on the calendar in the kitchen. If there's a tournament and no race, cool, have fun baby. If there's a race and no tournament that weekend then she has the same sentiment to me. When they overlap, we look at what it is, how important it is to the other, and compromise. Sometimes I don't get to go to a race I'd like to go to. Sometimes she doesn't get to go to a tournament she'd like to go to. Such is life.

There is the difference. We compromise on our conflicts so that at least one of us can do what they enjoy, but on the days she has a tournament and I don't have a race, she doesn't "drag" me to the tournament. I stay home, take care of the animals, work in the shop, whatever. Same is true for her when she doesn't have an event and I go racing. We have very few conflicts doing it this way.

I have never understand how a man (OR WOMAN) will let themselves be "dragged" to something they don't want to do when it's as insignificant as a leisure activity like a movie. A company dinner (where if the spouse doesn't show it might cause a problem at the office)? Sure. Family things? Sure. There are times we don't want to do the things we're doing, but not for some crappy movie I won't. Never have, never will.

John Stricker

Well said, Mr. Stricker.

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stimpy

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Here's a hint for you...don't believe everything you THINK.

Somebody listened to Armstrong and Getty this week.

Who are they?? (seriously, never heard of 'em)

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by TK: Somebody listened to Armstrong and Getty this week.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Who are they?? (seriously, never heard of 'em) John Stricker

A local AM team (KSTE 650). They had that specific conversation although I think they were referencing some other source.

IMO there are two types of cheating 1 is physical....that is where any body fluids or exchanged with someone who is not your partner.
2 is emotional this is when you develop a friendship with another person of the opposite sex. And this friendship becomes all consuming. Such as you spend more time talking to or doing things with said person. To me cheating has to involve another flesh and blood person. Pron, romance novels, movies etc...do not constitute cheating. If my husband exchanges bodily fluid with another female (even saliva) or becomes to closely attached to another woman (even in a friendly way) I feel as if he cheated. If he fantasizes about or watches other women naked well that is just life. As someone before said we all need to recharge the old batteries once in a while. So IMO women who worry about titty bars and pron are in for a lot of disappointment. They need to save their worrying for the real issues.