quote Originally posted by GT86: Too little, too late. Don't blame consumers for buying a better car. Blame Detroit for not bothering to be competitive.

True on so many levels. For years I (and many more people) have wondered how so many people could afford their mcmansion's. Well....they couldn't! For years I (and many others) have wondered when the big three, or one of the big three would fall. Well here ya go. Ya fudge up and you ask the gov for help.

These are strange days...

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Did you know that Ford released a Focus in Europe that was a completely different car than the piece of crap they released here? It's the UK's best selling car because it's awesome.

Yep the focus is something special in Europe and Australia. I recently got rid of my Focus Xr5 Turbo. Top car. 2.5 litre 5 cylinder turbo, 6 speed and handled like on railss.

MaryJane,

You seem to assume I feel bad about the purchase of my Honda. In no way to I feel bad about this. It's just the way at the time life happened. I got a great deal on the car buying it from a friend of mine. the thing has 62,000 miles are runs awesome I am not gonna lie I love my car. But I also loved my PONTIAC Fiero my PONTIAC Grand Am and my PONTIAC Sunfire.

I am not trying to say that all the money I spent on my car stays in the US but it helps employ people who otherwise would be out of work. I spend my money to have maintenance done on the car oil changes and that stuff and that stays here in the US.

I am not saying anyone is wrong or right in this buy a domestic car dispute. I love my Honda, you can love your Ford or GM or Chrysler too. Thats fine but no matter what you can not say that someone who drives a japanese car does not contribute to the economy.

quote What I don't understand is what makes my Honda that was built in Ohio by Ohioans so bad?

You are the one that intimated that it was bad.

quote Thats fine but no matter what you can not say that someone who drives a japanese car does not contribute to the economy.

Of course our foreign purchases contribute to the economy.

But--whose economy ------------ours--or theirs?
It's the "lesser of two evils" scenario.
"OK, while I choose not to buy an American car, but I will at least buy a foreign make that is built here--at least it contributes some to our job and tax base".

The problem?
Not only does that contribute only a fraction of what buying American car would provide, but it also detracts from US company's market share, job totals, corporate viability, and sends dollars out of the country--therefore increasing the trade defecit. If you figure in all the many variables, I suspect in the end, your contribution is at most, a wash--but probably overall, still a negative impact on the US economy.

To me buying American means buying a better product, a wise choice and having the resources for that product. Let's give an example.... GM is selling their standard 1500 series trucks with an $8000 rebate. $8K?? So I have to ask myself.... what is the profit margin on these things if they offer a discount that large? What will be the value of that truck in a few years? What happens after the warranty runs out? How much will it cost to fix? GM hasn't always concentrated on making a better product, but instead one that is just average. $20K-$30K is a lot of money and as an American I believe we should spend wisely and make informed descisions.

J.

Profit margin is no longer very big, and the $8K rebate is just an incentative to get the backlog of inventory to move. They had to do something to try to preserve their market share, especially since financing is harder to get now.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I have issues with anybody trying to tell me what to buy and how to spend my money!

When you get an oil change, tune up the car, get a brake job, etc, where are the parts made?

The local alternative station http://www.89xradio.com/ played the ad but it's not on the site yet.

Anyone know what their profits are? You can't tell me a $5X,XXX Caddy SUV takes $50,000 to make.... I am betting it runs about $20K to make... maybe even less... Chrome isn't that expensive. SUVs are hugh profit makers and they are not selling.

The sad part is that $8K rebate isn't enough.... try rebating them at $15K... that would bring their prices more along the lines of their real worth.

J.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Profit margin is no longer very big, and the $8K rebate is just an incentative to get the backlog of inventory to move. They had to do something to try to preserve their market share, especially since financing is harder to get now.

Not the greatest example; it's pretty obvious Caddy SUV's (and "Hummers") are made specifically for those with more dollars than brains. A better example would be 'how much of the $20k price of a Malibu is profit ?' I'd guess about -$1,500.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Anyone know what their profits are? You can't tell me a $5X,XXX Caddy SUV takes $50,000 to make.... I am betting it runs about $20K to make... maybe even less... Chrome isn't that expensive. SUVs are hugh profit makers and they are not selling. The sad part is that $8K rebate isn't enough.... try rebating them at $15K... that would bring their prices more along the lines of their real worth. J.

NOT WORTH IT!?!? have you ever even SAT in one?

The new Escalades have bulletproof quality, a butter smooth 400hp engine and 6-speed automatic transmission (faster then my 3800sc CAR), 22" rims (and still has the caddy ride), and every electronic amenity you could ever want.

There is no way in hell it only costs 20k to make.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Your rationalization, that it was built in Ohio by Ohioans is just that--a rationalization to make yourself feel better about buying it.

No need to rationalize here. Is it my job to save America ? No, it is not. There are too many things beyond my control. Big Auto would be better able to do it. Politicians are better able to do it. To expect me to pay more for less so I can save America/Big Auto is ludicrous.
In a sense, I am doing my part to save America/Big Auto. I mentioned in another thread......

quote Originally posted by silver 85 sc: I was told by the union steward that I was working to fast and making the others look bad. This is the same union that defended an employee that never got his work done. The unions made a mistake of taking everything and everybody. They should have established themselves as an elite workforce that companies would jump at to get. Knowing that if they hired union, productivity and accuracy would be beyond compare. If it could guarantee that its members could meet any production challenge the unions would be a strong production force that would be worth its weight in gold.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Heh....amazing what no competition will cause. Myself, I have never been the best. The best that I could do was because of competition.

Foreign cars are in a large part responsible for American cars being better. Funny how everyone is for narrowing the wage gap. Complaining that too many are too rich and too many are too poor. I believe in worldwide competition. It worked for us and then we showed them how to do it. They learned from us and now we are learning from them. What's the big deal ? If we really are the greatest, we will succeed.

Interesting that people still just dismiss with a Jedi hand wave the FACT that the Asian car corps have been subsidized directly and through currency manipulation. This has been anything BUT fair competition. I believe in America and it's superior work force, given a level playing field I think we will win every time.

Sure the Union situation blows dog, it is in this case a bit out of hand, they need to be slapped. On the other side I also do not believe that a union work force is a bad thing. Without unions workers would be living in shacks behind the factory barely making enough to get by. Sure a bit of an exaggeration but it really used to be that way in the beginning of the industrial era. This scenario could easily repeat itself with un fettered capitalism. You hear the mantra everyday now, low wages are better than no wages.

In any event, the union is only a small part of the equation. Everyone is looking at them right now (by design) when they should be looking at the Feds for not doing their job which like it or not is regulating commerce. In my mind they have not been doing the job with the best interest of the American people in mind for a long time. They cave to corp.'s that want to open foreign markets because of lobbies and campaign contributions and have sold the people a bad bill of goods with horrible trade agreements that in the long run have undermined our American way of life and squelched the dreams of millions.

Fair trade not "free trade" will solve this. The Feds SHOULD be protecting American manufacturing through tax incentives and trade tariffs. All I have been hearing on the consumer side is me me me, soon it will be why me why me but apparently many are far too stupid to figure it out.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Interesting that people still just dismiss with a Jedi hand wave the FACT that the Asian car corps have been subsidized directly and through currency manipulation. This has been anything BUT fair competition. I believe in America and it's superior work force, given a level playing field I think we will win every time. Sure the Union situation blows dog, it is in this case a bit out of hand, they need to be slapped. On the other side I also do not believe that a union work force is a bad thing. Without unions workers would be living in shacks behind the factory barely making enough to get by. Sure a bit of an exaggeration but it really used to be that way in the beginning of the industrial era. This scenario could easily repeat itself with un fettered capitalism. You hear the mantra everyday now, low wages are better than no wages. In any event, the union is only a small part of the equation. Everyone is looking at them right now (by design) when they should be looking at the Feds for not doing their job which like it or not is regulating commerce. In my mind they have not been doing the job with the best interest of the American people in mind for a long time. They cave to corp.'s that want to open foreign markets because of lobbies and campaign contributions and have sold the people a bad bill of goods with horrible trade agreements that in the long run have undermined our American way of life and squelched the dreams of millions. Fair trade not "free trade" will solve this. The Feds SHOULD be protecting American manufacturing through tax incentives and trade tariffs. All I have been hearing on the consumer side is me me me, soon it will be why me why me but apparently many are far too stupid to figure it out.