JCPenney: "We Don't Do African-American Hair"
By Hayat Mohamed, BlackVoices.com

http://www.blackvoices.com/...rican-american-hair/

When Brenda McElmore showed up to get her hair dyed at a local JCPenney salon in Downey, Calif., she probably didn't expect to hear "no." Unfortunately, that's exactly what happened. According to McElmore, the receptionist at the front desk told her, "We don't do African American hair." McElmore says she was "astonished" to be denied service strictly because of her race.

After writing several letters to JCPenney about the incident, a representative responded with an apology, explaining that the "salon's receptionist did not feel [the salon's employees] had the technical proficiency to perform the service required." McElmore was not satisfied with that answer. "If you only want color -- I'm not asking for a perm or a style or anything else -- it doesn't take a special person or a special skill to do that," she said during a press conference last month .

McElmore recently called upon prominent defense attorney Gloria Allred to represent her in a lawsuit against JCPenney. In the lawsuit, Allred charges that JCPenney violated California's Unruh Civil Rights Act, which prohibits businesses from denying services based on race.
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I gotta say, JC Penny is gonna be in a world of hurt over this one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the receptionist represents JC Penny as a whole but, my lord, what kind if idiots are they hiring? I'll suggest that anyone interested in employment might find an opening at the Downey, CA store. If the receptionist really believes that the lady's hair couldn't be dyed, then she needs to find another line of work. Hopefully, she is just an idiot. What a dumb ass.

Ron

Edited to provide link.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-26-2008).]

while I fully understand not wanting to do "african american hair" if you have never worked on it before, for fear you will screw it up - but - c'mon - is this any better? this was a rock & a hard place for the poor girl - but - she choose poorly. should have done the ladies hair - and however it turned out - would be better than the problems she now caused.

u wouldn't believe how stupid most people are... its kinda sad actually

Anyone who has to hire people these days knows the gene pool is very shallow.
Surely this person got sensitivity training in grades K-12, must not of stuck.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Anyone who has to hire people these days knows the gene pool is very shallow. Surely this person got sensitivity training in grades K-12, must not of stuck.

lol - I dont think she was being specificly racist - I think she actually thinks the "nappy hair" is different from hair she has previously worked on.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: lol - I dont think she was being specificly racist - I think she actually thinks the "nappy hair" is different from hair she has previously worked on.

Hell, I could have dyed the lady's hair, might not have turned out exactly the way she wanted it but, hey, I've never dyed anyone's hair before.

Well, not counting that one event back in college but, that really doesn't count does it?

Ron

I think its just harder to go from black hair to a color of hair. She could have been a White girl with black hair and has an issue, Am I wrong?

The rest of the story, sorry, didn't see it the first time around.

Black Voices contacted Allred's office and was informed by an employee that JCPenny has yet to respond to the lawsuit; they have 30 days to do so.

This incident raises an important question: "Should hairdressers be equipped to do all types of hair regardless of where they work?"People of all races have unique hair textures, but where do we draw the line? McElmore was not going in for what a white stylist may view as a complicated procedure, such as a perm or weave. She was simply trying to get her hair dyed. Most hair dye that is sold in stores is formulated to be used on all hair types. Though special hair dye, shampoos and products are tailored for each "race" or hair texture, it's safe to say that, for the most part, hair dye does not come in a white, black, Hispanic, or Asian category.

On the same token, some may feel that JCPenney was wise to deny McElmore service because they felt there was a good possibility they could have mishandled her hair. If that was the case, they might have ended up being sued for doing McElmore's hair despite their lack of experience her hair type. It could be argued that the salon was truly in a Catch-22 -- either decision could have resulted in a lawsuit.

Incidents like this make you wonder whether or not the hair industry should remain segregated to ensure quality for each race. Do you believe JCPenney was right to deny McElmore service? Tell us what you think.
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Ron

Makes sense to me if you're currently incapable of providing a suitable service for a specific reason, simply say so.

Like taking an electric car to the garage, "Sorry, we don't work on Hybrid Vehicles."

Sure maybe you just wanted an oil change, but they aren't yet ready to do any work on such a vehicle.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Most hair dye that is sold in stores is formulated to be used on all hair types. Though special hair dye, shampoos and products are tailored for each "race" or hair texture, it's safe to say that, for the most part, hair dye does not come in a white, black, Hispanic, or Asian category. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Ron

They have African American hair dye stuff separate at Walmart.

I see a certain lack of tact and decorum on the part of the JCP employee-meaning she could/should have done a better job of explaining her reason for not wanting to do it. Like:
"You know, I'll be happy to give it a try, but to be honest, no one here has ever recolored African-American hair before, and I'm not real sure what the outcome would look like. Do you really want to trust us with your hair, under these circumstances? I'd really hate to screw it up."

I bet Al and Jesse could get their hair dyed at JC Penny.

i give it about 3 weeks and jessie and al will be all over this

My dad told me my grandfather would not cut AA hair. This was back in the 50's, grandfather was a barber. Simply said "I dont know how to cut AA hair." It was true and there are specific barbers that do AA hair. At least from what I've seen. Either you can or cant, though I am not sure about coloring.

Ya, its mostly about tact. The JCPenney employee had none, and shoudl not work in customer service.

My insurance agent cuts my hair, and he's Afro American, and does a great job, but good gawd almighty he is so s-----l------o-----w. Honestly, I think he just cuts one single strand at a time. I think I am his only white client--as I have never seen any other white person in his shop, other than to pay their insurance in his back office.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: My insurance agent cuts my hair, and he's Afro American, and does a great job, but good gawd almighty he is so s-----l------o-----w. Honestly, I think he just cuts one single strand at a time. I think I am his only white client--as I have never seen any other white person in his shop, other than to pay their insurance in his back office.

Let us be the judge, post a pic of your afro bro.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: My insurance agent cuts my hair, and he's Afro American, and does a great job, but good gawd almighty he is so s-----l------o-----w. Honestly, I think he just cuts one single strand at a time. I think I am his only white client--as I have never seen any other white person in his shop, other than to pay their insurance in his back office.

Don,
It could be that at your age, he's trying to make you feel like you got your money's worth.

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Hell, I could have dyed the lady's hair, might not have turned out exactly the way she wanted it

Then you would have had a MAJOR situation on your hands.

People are VERY touchy about their hair. And when you dye it, it is a LONG time before it grows out. You can RE-color over it, but that can be tricky, too.

Black (not african american. I don't even know what that exactly MEANS. I doubt she has ever BEEN to Africa, but I suppose it is possible. With a name like Brenda McElmore, she likely was born in the U.S. There are MANY non-blacks that are africans. African american is some vague, imprecise social designation and is in not related to a genetic race condition like this context. But I digress, don't I?) hair is SIGNIFICANTLY different than caucasian or asian hair, for example. It is thicker and drier as a rule. I do not know if it take a hair dye differently but due to those characteristics, I would be surprised if they didn't.

Brenda McElmore is an intolerant, whiny opportunist. She was not denied service, as she put it, "strictly BECAUSE of her race." She was denied service because of the person's lack of confidence in performing the desired service on this particular person's hair type. You can say all you want that she SHOULD have known how to do it, etc. Fine. SEPARATE QUESTION. McElmore was "astonished" by this. So? Well, so, I'll run to a lawyer and try to sue to get money out of JCPenney.


Now absolutely the receptionist communicated the situation extremely POORLY.

But you have to have a mighty BIG CHIP on your shoulder to get from THAT situation to hiring a "prominent defense attorney".
She might as well have said, "Oh NO YOU DITN'T." at the desk. Way to be a caricature of the overly sensitive AFRICAN AMERICAN (now we are dealing with the issue on a social and cultural level instead of genetic race level, so I'm switching back into politically correct mode) who sees racism EVERYWHERE...even when it doesn't exist. And then runs to a LAWYER.

Make a complaint to JCPenney management? Sure. Very appropriate. Run to a lawyer to sue. Ridiculous.

[This message has been edited by frontal lobe (edited 11-26-2008).]

Or its difficult both ways. takes him longer because he's not used to cutting white folks hair.

I disagree Ron. The receptionist, of ALL people, represents the company more than anyone. At my office, our receptionist is called the "Director of First Impressions" and she had to undergo some serious orientation regarding what she can and can not say since she is the first point of contact for anyone in the company with clients.

JC Penny either didn't do their job in educating this woman or they blew it in hiring an idiot who overstepped her authority. In either case, the damage is significant and JC Penny is responsible.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Then you would have had a MAJOR situation on your hands.

Doc,
My life is a MAJOR situation. So, that wouldn't be anything new.

I'd have told her up front that I'd never done it before and she was taking her chances letting me anywhere near her head but, if'n she was willing, I'd be happy to color her hair. They get big bucks for that stuff and how does anyone know that I wouldn't come up with the next fad in doos.

Don, I'm ready to cut your hair, I promise it won't take long.

Ron

Edited for spelling. Hey, stuff happens.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-26-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I disagree Ron. The receptionist, of ALL people, represents the company more than anyone. At my office, our receptionist is called the "Director of First Impressions" and she had to undergo some serious orientation regarding what she can and can not say since she is the first point of contact for anyone in the company with clients. JC Penny either didn't do their job in educating this woman or they blew it in hiring an idiot who overstepped her authority. In either case, the damage is significant and JC Penny is responsible.

there is alot to this. the receptionist is just as important as the logo, the commercials & any other PR thing JC Penney does. of course that will NEVER show up in the girls pay tho. which is why they get what they got.

because while it is 100% true that the lady couldnt get her service strictly on the basis of race - the silly girl should have at least tried to make it sound nicer. there is a huge difference in saying "We dont do negros here" and "Our tech doesnt know how to color your hair type"

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: it is 100% true that the lady couldnt get her service strictly on the basis of race - there is a huge difference in saying "We dont do negros here" and "Our tech doesnt know how to color your hair type"

Your own comments reflect that it wasn't STRICTLY on the basis of race. It was on the basis of HAIR type.

I agree with Toddster that JCPenney IS responsible. But I want to define "the damage is significant". The PUBLIC RELATIONS damage is significant. The PERSONAL damages to Brenda McElmore is somewhere barely discernible from ZERO.

JCPenney may have to be "damaged" financially by forking over for lawyer fees, but any competent lawyer ought to be able to destroy this flimsy case that it is a racial discrimination issue, and also that there have been any "damages" to McElmore. (except the wild card in that statement is that it IS in California, with its FAR leftist judges)

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: JCPenney may have to be "damaged" financially by forking over for lawyer fees, but any competent lawyer ought to be able to destroy this flimsy case that it is a racial discrimination issue, and also that there have been any "damages" to McElmore. (except the wild card in that statement is that it IS in California, with its FAR leftist judges)

We always seem to come back to that. California The Left Coast

Ron

Please read the whole thing before jumping to conclusions about my point. Sorry, but I have to agree with frontal lobe on this one. I think the woman who was refused service is an opportunist. And don't even get me started on what an opportunist I believe Gloria Aldred is. She completely turns my stomach and makes all lawyers look bad, the camera, media and attention whore that she is, in my opinion. (Have to state it as an opinion or she may try to sue me . That aside, consider recently in the Milwaukee area an African American mother has been arrested for giving her 16 year old son a gun to settle an argument he had at school. Her son shot three people. An african american foster parent has been arrested an charged with murder for beating and torturing to death a 7 month old boy (her nephew) and severely injuring his two year old sister. The african american community in south eastern Wisconsin sees the highest murder rate (per capita) of any ethnic group in the state. It has a significantly higher teen pregnancy rate than any other ethnic group in the state, (but to give credit where it is due, the rate decreased significantly in the last few years). There are significant issues with violent crimes, property crimes and drug related crimes. Graduation rates are declining and truancy is up. In the last five years, there have been at least two instances of large groups of AA teens beating to death people for no good reason and one case of seventeen men and boys (as young as twelve and as old as forty) gang raping a fourteen year old girl. During all this time, I have not heard or seen one "great" black leader, like Sharpton or Jackson, decry the actions of the individuals involved or propose a solution to the problems in the community. I have not seen Ms. Aldred volunteer her services to the black community here to help solve the problems it is facing from within.

Now, before anyone screams that crime occurs in white or asian or whatever ethnic area also, I know that and that is not my point. It is also not my point that the above actions represent the actions of the majority of black people in south eastern wisconsin, because I do not believe they do. I firmly believe that most black people, like most people, live good and productive lives and want nothing more than to make a living wage, have a nice home and some spending money and to feel safe with their family in their homes. My point is, with all the real and tangible adversity facing the black (or, if you must, the African American) community, why would anyone waste any time or effort because a receptionist may have been a bone head and may have said something stupid. Could it have been racially insensitive, maybe. Could it have been inappropriate, possibly. Is it something to hire a lawyer and threaten a lawsuit over. No. . This reminds me of the Michael Richards (Kramer on Seinfeld) thing awhile back. A washed up has been comedian who has been relegated to doing stand up in clubs loses it and starts using the "N" word and its caught on tape. The whole world goes crazy. This guy hasn't been relevant in years and all of the sudden him using an offensive word is the news of the week. Give me a break. Was it offensive? Definitely. Was it intolerant? Absolutely? Was it national news? No f-ing way. I feel the same way about the whole Imus thing.

The black (or AA) community has so many other real issues facing it that making federal cases out of these insignificant instances detracts from the real issues and makes it impossible to have a real, open and honest dialogue about racism, prejudice and intolerance. People say stupid things all the time. People do stupid things all the time. In most cases, you cannot sue them unless you can show actual harm, in this case, she may be able to sue because of a law that is meant to prevent institutionalized discrimination. Because the media and the race baiters out there over hype these stupid little incidents, instances of real discrimination are not taken seriously because the general population has been desensitized because of specious claims of discrimination.

Another thing that needs to be understood here is that we are taking the offended woman's word as to what she was told. I would bet this incident was not taped or otherwise recorded and I would also bet that the receptionist was not as ham-handed as the article would have you believe. I deal with people everyday who feel they have been slighted somehow. I answer people's questions regarding discrimination and have even done work as a equal rights attorney, and have represented people who have truely had their rights violated, for race, sexual gender, age, and disability. I believe that we need to have laws that protect people from discrimination based upon race and I have fought to enforce those laws in both state and federal court. And I have learned, over the years, that people's memories of conversations are often oppurtunistic and rarely idetic. In other words, people remember what they want to hear, or what fits their agenda, not what was actually said.

Additionally, I think it is a stretch to suggest that JC Penney's, as a corporate policy, refuses to provide hair care and salon treatments to african-americans. But we should just ignore that and jump on the band wagon and have a reactionary response to this without knowing what was truly said by the receptionist.

There is no such thing as equality in this world. All individuals are all differentl, and therefore inequal, regardless of race. We can only strive to allow equal opportunities to everyone. In this case, I do not know what actually happened. I have my ideas, but I will keep those to myself. Everyone else will draw their own conclusions based upon the information they have. But it is stories like this that actually hurt the advancement of equal opportunity because they breed resentment and detract from the real issues facing the AA community and the AMERICAN community as a whole.

Let's tell the story a different way. A receptionist at the local JC Penney's was recently faced with an untenable situation. A new client set up an appointment for a coloring at the salon. When she arrived, it was clear that the salon was not appropriate for the client, who was African-American, because the stylists working that day had no experiance in dying or styling african-american hair. After consulting with the stylists,the receptionist informed the client that they would unable to help her for fear of damaging her hair, and they were afraid her scalp could be harmed by the chemicals used in the process. She apologized for the incovenience but the client was dissatisfied with her response. Because the staff did not have the technical savvy to properly provide services for her and she was afraid that if she allows the salon to provide services, the client could be harmed, she politely refused service the the client. While there was no good alternative, she chose the alternative that would cause the least potential physical harm to the client. The client is suing JCPenney's for discrimination.

I know the above is a fantasy, as I have no facts about the situation other than what was presented here, but when it is phrased as above, the client seems to be a little less sympathetic, doesn't she.

FInally, it seems to me that if they would have provided the services and the client would have been injured as a result, they would have been sued for that also, so it truly was a catch-22 for the salon employee.

Just something to think about.

And, as an aside, in fifteen years as an attorney, I have been contact once by a white woman who's hair and scalp had been damaged at a salon, but I regularly receive calls (3-5 a year initially, less recently) about damage caused to the hair and/or scalp of black women while receiving salon treatments. While I have never taken one of these cases, just from the volume I have received from the black community over the years, I would believe that it is fundamentally more difficult to treat/style/color black hair. Mind you this is anecdotal evidence at best, but it seems elementary to me.

Tytehead,
Having read your entire post, I have one question for you. Should maryjane (Don), Toddster (Todd) or anyone else come into my new stylist shop, will you defend me.

Ron

Sure...but the retainer fee will be appropriately outrageous...and we will have to make a media circus out of it....

quote Originally posted by Tytehead: Sure...but the retainer fee will be appropriately outrageous...and we will have to make a media circus out of it....

With this group, I'd expect nothing less.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-26-2008).]

Oh no you diint!!!

This whole thing may be blown out of proportion. Here's another possible angle: my uncle is a saloon owner, and I remember him saying that back in the days of his classes, there were separate courses for working with African Americans hair. He said that the properties of that hair were significantly different, so additional training was required. Maybe that is why this person said they wouldn't work on it, because they knew it was different and didn't want to make a mistake due to inexperience.

quote Originally posted by Tytehead: My point is, with all the real and tangible adversity facing the black (or, if you must, the African American) community, why would anyone waste any time or effort because a receptionist may have been a bone head and may have said something stupid. The black (or AA) community has so many other real issues facing it that making federal cases out of these insignificant instances detracts from the real issues and makes it impossible to have a real, open and honest dialogue about racism, prejudice and intolerance. People say stupid things all the time. Because the media and the race baiters out there over hype these stupid little incidents, instances of real discrimination are not taken seriously because the general population has been desensitized because of specious claims of discrimination. But it is stories like this that actually hurt the advancement of equal opportunity because they breed resentment and detract from the real issues facing the AA community and the AMERICAN community as a whole.

Using episodes of this as examples of "racism in America" is an insult to black people of 30 and 40 years ago. People in that time experienced REAL racism. And black people in the U.S. 100 years ago faced even worse than that.

McElmore is an opportunist of the worst kind, who hurts black people primarily, but also our society in general. Enablers like attorney Gloria Allred are arguably even worse, because their actions harm our society as well, but they also do it under the GUISE of being a defender of social justice.

quote Originally posted by ditch: This whole thing may be blown out of proportion. Here's another possible angle: my uncle is a salon owner,

Fixed that for ya or maybe I should ask, what beverages did he serve?

Ron

JC Penney does hair?

working in laurel, md theres a hair cuttery near my work, who is all "black" barbers, i went in before to ask for a cut, and was told "im not sure how to do them new syle whiteboy cuts, might wana try downthe street"

nothing offensive, altho i coulda probly been an asshat and sued, but he was just being honest, not everyone is PC

quote Originally posted by ditch: This whole thing may be blown out of proportion. Here's another possible angle: my uncle is a saloon owner, and I remember him saying that back in the days of his classes, there were separate courses for working with African Americans hair. He said that the properties of that hair were significantly different, so additional training was required. Maybe that is why this person said they wouldn't work on it, because they knew it was different and didn't want to make a mistake due to inexperience.

But..but... everyone is the same, "created equal is in the constitution" we all have the same rioght to use the same haircare! j/k

hookedonspeed don't take this lying down. You have been treated egregiously and with no concern for your feelings. I think we should sue and sue now!! Calling you a whiteboy. How offensive!! Suggesting you walk down the street because you are too poor to afford a car. Unspeakable!! How have you overcome the shame, the extreme mental pain you must have felt to be refused service this way. You are a true hero to have not fallen on the ground in agoney and dispair when this happened to you!!!! Call me we can work something out....I work on contingencies......


I think it goes without saying I am being completely facetious........

lol, but, im about as white and nerdy as they come homeskillet

What about the rest of your people!