So your logic would indicate that we need to jail gun dealers every time someone kills someone with a gun? I somehow dont think that will fly.
All that is needed is another person like you with the idea that homos should be jailed and guess what? they will be. And dont go thinking they dont exist because they do. There was once a man named Hitler... remember him?
Dont start resorting to personal attacks on me. My posts are not far fetched but rather you disagree and are frustrated becasue you arent getting through to me.... Well guess what? I feel the same and I also understand why... So, I'll just say this, reality really does suck.
No, gun dealers who sell guns Illegally such as maybe out of the trunk of their car however is alot more similar to a drug dealer, as compared to drugs the guns would have to be smuggled in or grown illegally too.
It's not my job to worry about what some whack a mole thinks. I have my own viewpoint, you are trying to use the slippery slope argument here? You are saying I cannot disagree with someone because what if someone else wants to put them in jail for it?
It is not a personal attack to say something you posted is far fetched, (I.E. a reach, a stretch, not really applicable). I understand your frustration at not getting thru to me.
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01:33 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Yes... the slippery slope argument... yes you are on a slipery slope with those arguments you make against anthers freedom to chose A. to screw a hooker. B. to won a gun C. to enjoy some drugs D. to marry who they want.
Does it really matter to you what people do to enjoy their lives or does it hurt you when they do? I'm not saying there are not any irresponsible people out there but what I am saying is stop relying on the government to make them so.
When one harms another for any reason then there is a price to be paid and the responsible party should be made to pay but to make a criminal out of someone who merely provides "a service" is simply illogical in concept.
Originally posted by 84Bill: Yes... the slippery slope argument... yes you are on a slipery slope with those arguments you make against anthers freedom to chose A. to screw a hooker. B. to won a gun C. to enjoy some drugs D. to marry who they want.
Does it really matter to you what people do to enjoy their lives or does it hurt you when they do? I'm not saying there are not any irresponsible people out there but what I am saying is stop relying on the government to make them so.
I find the drug dealers are NOT the problem - it is a few of the drug users which cause the problems. "Them few bad apples, which spoil the bunch". and, while I cannot "grow" a gun - I sure can make one.
I dont see what the complaint is, the majority spoke and that is how our form of goverment works. Only a minority complains about how a vote goes well I am sorry that people cant except that in our form of goverment works it is a majority vote. IF you dont like it you could always join the Comunist party and let a small group decide the laws. I personaly would not approve nor would I vote for gay marrige. But as I see it you all wish to live anyway you wish. It isnt like we are saying that you cant be gay.
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: I dont see what the complaint is, the majority spoke and that is how our form of goverment works.
That is NOT how our government is "supposed" to work. It just so happens that many believe that democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. However, it is not, it is the destroyer of ALL the civilizations that have implemented it.
In fact our founders gave us a warning about it. MANY warnings.
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02:03 PM
aconesa Member
Posts: 374 From: Trenton, New Jersey, USA Registered: Jun 2005
That is NOT how our government is "supposed" to work. It just so happens that many believe that democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. However, it is not, it is the destroyer of ALL the civilizations that have implemented it.
In fact our founders gave us a warning about it. MANY warnings.
Well if it isnt supposed to work that way it would seem that it does and majority rules. We are talking about one state here who its people have voted and the majority of those voters have spoken I still dont see where any arguement is relevent. a vote is a vote. It is what makes a Republic work. All a republic is, Its a Country made of differant States, Russia while it was Communist was a Republic. It was a Country made of Many states. USSR the R means Republic.
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02:25 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: Well if it isnt supposed to work that way it would seem that it does and majority rules. We are talking about one state here who its people have voted and the majority of those voters have spoken I still dont see where any arguement is relevent. a vote is a vote. It is what makes a Republic work. All a republic is, Its a Country made of differant States, Russia while it was Communist was a Republic. It was a Country made of Many states. USSR the R means Republic.
yes...if only....we would have been rid of "the blacks" long ago.....
The humanity of the cravings for sex and drugs, illegal or not. Also the apparent way I cannot express my point well enough.
yeah, it aint easy, is it. but - we've managed to get thru 7 pages of this junk without throwing insults. which is quite a feat. we covered much ground.
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03:05 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
It doesn't matter if it's MY wallet or the wallet of the stockholders of General Motors.
Only you would take that personally.
If you need it any more clear, then let me rephrase it so there is no doubt. When the law is written that forces ANY EMPLOYER to support a lifestyle choice that they don't approve of, it's wrong and I could argue unconstitutional on several levels.
I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that, Bill. Yes, I don't approve of "gay marriage". That is making the term "marriage" meaningless, IN MY OPINION, and is something I would not support. That doesn't mean I hate gays. It doesn't even mean I care how anyone else lives their lives. It does mean that I should not be expected, nor anyone else, to support a lifestyle which they don't approve of.
Go back to Jazzman's post about the churches. Believe it or not, if it's solely based on religious grounds, I agree with him. However, the vast majority of churches in the US could qualify for tax-exempt non-profit status, and that is why the law is what it is. I know there are SOME churches that do things for profit, but most of them make little if any money, so it's primarily just a technicality on how they are exempt and not IF they are exempt. However, if Jazzman gets his way, I'll also yell just as loud to remove tax exempt status from things like the NAACP, ACLU, ASPCA, and Planned Parenthood. What's good for one should be good for all.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
But you said YOU draw the line when it comes to reaching into YOUR wallet. You made the argument personal and you continue to do so with statements like "force ME" and "MY wallet" "I dont approve"
It does not require rocket science to figure out by reasonable deduction you hate the idea of gay marriage yet you say "I dont care."
If you didnt care then why do you say such things? Are you playing devils advocate or gods advocate?
Originally posted by Pyrthian: yeah, it aint easy, is it. but - we've managed to get thru 7 pages of this junk without throwing insults. which is quite a feat. we covered much ground.
Which is why I'm bowing out of this because I can see where it is heading with the accusations that are beginning to fly. It never fails that whenever something like this is discussed some people just cant bring themselves to accept that this nation was founded on freedom to live as you wish and not the freedom to tell others how they should live based on xxx beliefs. It's tragic really...
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04:05 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Originally posted by JazzMan: What's better, a government that protects the weakest among us, or one that throws them to the wolves? Which one is more reflective of a civilized society? Which one do you reflect?
JazzMan
Abortion? Selective reproduction?
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04:11 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
yeah, it aint easy, is it. but - we've managed to get thru 7 pages of this junk without throwing insults. which is quite a feat. we covered much ground.
So, discrimination laws in the deep south were majority vote against a minority, we should accept that as a nation? And laws against interracial marriage? They were majority vote. Howabout laws that made it illegal to vote if you were a woman, or black? Those were majority vote. You're sorry that people couldn't accept those laws?
What's better, a government that protects the weakest among us, or one that throws them to the wolves? Which one is more reflective of a civilized society? Which one do you reflect?
JazzMan
All laws discrimanate against someone. Hell I wish they would repeal all speedlimit laws I am a speeder and I would love nothing more then to see those laws go away. I was born to go fast its in my nature. I would be willing to bet that there are alot of others just like me. Not only that but my Job I am payed by how many miles I drive in a day. Speed limit laws cuts into my pay........ Some laws are not worth overturning. Besides It isnt like were making Gays eat in the Kitchen or denying them an education or making them sit in the back of the bus.
[This message has been edited by 88_Fiero_2M4 (edited 11-11-2008).]
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4: All laws discrimanate against someone.
Hard to believe but there was a time when they didn't. At one time in American history they actually were remedy for injury FOR discrimination. But alas... evil prevails. I really need to get a job, take out my brain and be miserable like everyone else. :sigh:
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06:26 PM
PFF
System Bot
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Do me a favor and dont answer yet, I'd like to see what Khw meant by that.
Thanks.
Give me a few. Honestly, I have been known to spend days writing replies. I have spent countless hours reading and researching for information to help me better demonstrate or compose my answers. This is one reason why I don't post alot on political threads anymore, I used to post alot on the forum I linked to on page 4. I still post in those forums in there new location, but not in any such capacity that even comes close to what I used to when debating there. I just don't have the time to do so that I used to. It may take me a day or three to answer because my mind has gone off on a tangent of sorts from personal definition.
Oh, and I didn't say a caught anything, Just that I was pondering those words.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 11-11-2008).]
Give me a few. Honestly, I have been known to spend days writing replies. I have spent countless hours reading and researching for information to help me better demonstrate or compose my answers. This is one reason why I don't post alot on political threads anymore, I used to post alot on the forum I linked to on page 4. I still post in those forums in there new location, but not in any such capacity that even comes close to what I used to when debating there. I just don't have the time to do so that I used to. It may take me a day or three to answer because my mind has gone off on a tangent of sorts from personal definition.
Oh, and I didn't say a caught anything, Just that I was pondering those words.
Thanks, you are a good man because you have an open mind. I like that and I appreciate it.
As much as I'd like to, I cant continue this discussion. I must at this time admit defeat, I have been defeated. I though I was a good man for the job I have concluded that I apparently am not. As noble as my cause may have been, I must now give it up. I can go no further. I have no will to continue this dialogue or any other confrontations with anyone... I am.... truly finished with the fight for what is right. I do so because I have finally realized that there is no right, no justice and no happiness. It was never meant to and it never will be.
I hope that you never know....
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01:06 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
It's not over. This world is constantly changing, and opinions with it. PFF is a tiny window to the world, theres a lot more out there than you can see thru this window. However, I do agree with my own opinion.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-12-2008).]
