"So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted." ~ Obama



Coal is 50% of all U.S. power generation!

Is he out of his fricking mind?

He just wants to spread big evil coals wealth around.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: *snip* Is he out of his fricking mind?

Sure looks like it.

What does he intend to do about the underground Pa. coal fire that has been emitting gases 24/7 for 20 years or more?

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-02-2008).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: What does he intend to do about the underground Pa. coal fire that has been emitting gases for 20 years or more?

Take your money and throw it at the problem.

Already been tried. $300 million I believe so far, with no results.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Already been tried. $300 million I believe so far, with no results.

Thats because 300 million isn't enough. Million is so last millennium... this is the billennium.. here we use BIG words and big numbers that the average person cant even begin to comprehend.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: What does he intend to do about the underground Pa. coal fire that has been emitting gases 24/7 for 20 years or more?

Charge Pennsylvanians a Carbon Tax.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Charge Pennsylvanians a Carbon Tax.

They are called carbon credits.. It's part of the Democrat plan to thwart global warming and undermine the oil industry as well as the republican party.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: They are called carbon credits.. It's part of the Democrat plan to thwart global warming and undermine the oil industry as well as the republican party.

Actually Bill, it's "wealth redistribution" on a global scale.
You might want to read up on the whole "Cap & Trade" scam.

quote Originally posted by randye: Actually Bill, it's "wealth redistribution" on a global scale. You might want to read up on the whole "Cap & Trade" scam.

AKA the Global Economy... it also goes hand in hand with the North American Union idea I've been hearing more and more about.

We seem to be headed for socialism on a global scale with America acting as the spearhead for it all. :::shudders::: The founders warned us about this.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: AKA the Global Economy... it also goes hand in hand with the North American Union idea I've been hearing more and more about. We seem to be headed for socialism on a global scale with America acting as the spearhead for it all. :::shudders::: The founders warned us about this.

Yup!

As I've said before, the average American thought that Marxism would be as obvious as this:



They still can't grasp the idea that it looks like this:

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-02-2008).]

quote Originally posted by randye:

Look at the smarmy red bastard standing on the flag, the symbol of the country that gives his sorry ass the freedom to express his bullshit communist view. Amazing.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Look at the smarmy red bastard standing on the flag, the symbol of the country that gives his sorry ass the freedom to express his bullshit communist view. Amazing.

A picture is worth 1000 words but it all depends on your perspective. Some see what they want to see other see things for what they are. In the end the most vocal opponents of freedom are those who open their mouths when they should remain silent.

Ultimately everyone will suffer because in this country we are united no matter how divided we appear to be. Be carefule what you wish for, it might come true and you will be the one who has to deal with it.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: In the end the most vocal opponents of freedom are those who open their mouths when they should remain silent. .

You've been attending the Yogi Berra school of politics haven't you Bill?

quote Originally posted by randye: You've been attending the Yogi Berra school of politics haven't you Bill?

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
It might also cost money, a felony arrest record or worse... exposure to the truth of how things really are.

As long as I am breathing, I'll have an opinion on anything including politics.

Who is Yogi Berra?
Isnt he like one of them religious leader types from Nepal?

quote Isnt he like one of them religious leader types from Nepal?

I think so. He lived and worked in New York, and was famous for walking up to hot dog vendors and saying:

"Make me one with everything"

quote Originally posted by fierobear: "Make me one with everything"

:slaps forehead:

Yeeeeeah.... and isn't that what Adam said just before god created Eve?

I once had a contract with the Tobyhanna Army Depot in PA. They had actual mountains of coal next to their boiler rooms for heat and power.
Also a current client , West Chester University in PA. uses coal in their boilers.

It'll be interesting how these carbon credits will end up.

And you wouldn't believe some of the lead polluted lakes in some popular sites in New Jersey.

The government on all levels need to clean up their own mess before going after private business.

Thats a fact.

Spoon

Yep, Pine Bluff Army Ammunition Depot has a huge mess to deal with--but then that is where a lot of the biological/chemical weapons were/are stored.

Google PANTEX if you want to read about a eco nightmare.

McCain supports the same cap and trade polices Obama does for coal. Further, Obama's remarks are intended for the construction of coal plants which do not contain modern pollution controls or use dirty coal.

FURTHERER, this news is 10 months old, the audio has existed on the internets for just as long and the only reason it's being discussed now is because there's no time for a rebuttal to the obvious flaw in the attack.

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 11-03-2008).]

I heard him spout a dumb one here yesterday. He says if any young people would go into the military or any government help agency, hed personally ensure every single one of them would get a paid college education.... Wonder where hes planning on finding that money ? Government dont have it and he cant even get his own family members out of the slums. Maybe hes going to write them a check from his personal account.

Then theres the scam going around the south that democrats vote on tuesday and republicans on wednesday. Guess they think you southerners are that dumb.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Look at the smarmy red bastard standing on the flag, the symbol of the country that gives his sorry ass the freedom to express his bullshit communist view. Amazing.

That picture made me a little sick to my stomach. I just can't figure out what people like that are trying to prove.

so, which president bankrupted the shoe cobbler?

Here's a list of the things Obama Claus promised in Sarasota last week. Quite the laundry list of giveaways! If he does half of what he says, the country is going to be driven into bankruptcy.

---

Obama Claus

October 30, 2008 11:00 PM

Once you get past the soaring oratory, to experience a speech by Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., is to be hit with an astoundingly lengthy list of promises.

"I don't know how any reasonable person" could think he'd really be able to accomplish everything he's pledging to do, said the mother-in-law of a colleague, a Missouri woman who intends to vote for Obama.

Just today in Sarasota, Fla., the Democratic presidential nominee said that he'd:

"give a tax break to 95 percent of Americans who work every day and get taxes taken out of their paycheck every week";
"eliminate income taxes on Social Security for seniors making under $50,000";
"give homeowners and working parents additional tax breaks";
not increase taxes on anyone if they "make under $250,000; you will not see your taxes increase by a single dime –- not your income taxes, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains tax";
"end those breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas";
"give tax breaks to companies that invest right here in the United States";
"eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses and start-up companies that are the engine of job creation in this country";
"create two million new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling roads, and bridges, and schools -- by laying broadband lines to reach every corner of the country";
"invest $15 billion a year in renewable sources of energy to create five million new energy jobs over the next decade";
"reopen old factories, old plants, to build solar panels, and wind turbines";
build "a new electricity grid";
"build the fuel efficient cars of tomorrow";
"eliminate the oil we import from the Middle East in 10 years";
"lower premiums" for those who already have health insurance;
"if you don't have health insurance, you'll be able to get the same kind of health insurance that members of Congress give themselves";
"end discrimination by insurance companies to the sick and those who need care the most";
"invest in early childhood education";
"recruit an army of new teachers";
"pay our teachers higher salaries, give them more support. But ... also demand higher standards and more accountability";
"make a deal with every young person who's here and every young person in America: If you are willing to commit yourself to national service, whether it's serving in our military or in the Peace Corps, working in a veterans home or a homeless shelter, then we will guarantee that you can afford to go to college no ifs ands or buts";
"stop spending $10 billion a month in Iraq whole the Iraqis have a huge surplus";
"end this war in Iraq";
"finish the fight and snuff out al Qaeda and bin Laden";
"increase our ground troops and our investments in the finest fighting force in the world";
"invest in 21st century technologies so that our men and women have the best training and equipment when they deploy into combat and the care and benefits they have earned when they come home";
"No more homeless veterans"; and
"no more fighting for disability payments."
This on top of his 30-minute infomercial last night, and the myriad other pledges and promises he's made throughout the last 21 months.

It's quite a list!

He does call for some sacrifices, though nothing that would equal the cost of these measures.

"Washington is going to have to tighten its belt. It's going to have to put off spending on things we don't need. As president, I'm gonna go through the federal budget, line-by-line, and we're going to end programs that we don't need. We're gonna have to make the ones we do need work better and cost less."
Of course, he'll soon be "asking folks who are making more than a quarter million dollars a year to go back to the tax rate they were paying in the 1990s before the Bush tax cuts."
And in a way of attempting to head off at the pass any criticisms that there's no way the U.S. can afford all this, he says supporters should tell skeptics that ending the war will save the U.S. $10 billion a month.
The AP's Calvin Woodward took a look at Obama's assertion that he's "offered spending cuts above and beyond" what he's pledging to spend, and he concluded that's "accepted only by his partisans. His vow to save money by 'eliminating programs that don't work' masks his failure throughout the campaign to specify what those programs are -- beyond the withdrawal of troops from Iraq."

Even accepting the savings Obama pledges to bring, the bi-partisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says Obama will add a net $428 billion to the deficit over the course of his term.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., too is making unrealistic promises. As the Tax Policy Center says of both candidates, "Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years, according to a newly updated analysis by the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. Neither candidate's plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified."

-- Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 11-03-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: That picture made me a little sick to my stomach. I just can't figure out what people like that are trying to prove.

I dont think they are trying to prove anything but I do believe they are trying to tell us something. One of the quickest ways to defeat your enemy is to anger him to the point of irrational thought and make a mistake. Ears hear much better than mouths or fists.

As I said before, we are all united in this country, like it or not. We all will suffer together, like it or not. That how this country was formed and that is how it will be destroyed too.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: McCain supports the same cap and trade polices Obama does for coal. Further, Obama's remarks are intended for the construction of coal plants which do not contain modern pollution controls or use dirty coal. FURTHERER, this news is 10 months old, the audio has existed on the internets for just as long and the only reason it's being discussed now is because there's no time for a rebuttal to the obvious flaw in the attack.

What does any of this have to do with Obama's plan to bankrupt the coal industry...something I am PRETTY DARN CERTAIN McCain doesn't have on his agenda?

Wrong again. According to Ohio's George Voinovich:

http://www.c-spanarchives.o...ode/77531&id=7351631

quote The McCain amendment will put coal out of business by forcing fuel switching to natural gas. This might even be why some organizations are pushing this amendment. Last year, I was shocked to read that a Sierra Legal Defense Fund staff lawyer said:

Arizona's John McCain:
http://www.c-spanarchives.o...ode/77531&id=7351694

quote Does it involve some sacrifice on the part of the American people? Yes. I have to tell you, every time I talk to young Americans and say, Are you willing to make some sacrifice to prevent the occurrences that we see are happening now, these young Americans are more than willing to do so. ... What is the cost to the Alaskan Inuit Tribe when, as we speak, their villages are falling into the ocean because of the melting of the permafrost? What are those costs?

Those sacrifices are in JOBS as a result of the cap and trade programs. They represent the same policies. This is ideologically retarded since they're pushing the same legislation - McCain just calls Obama out for doing the exact same crap he's doing! (which is the right thing imho)

Here is some satirical commentary provided courtesy of the left wing nuts at Daily Kos. Not without a sense of irony, they use McCain's own words against him:



So, what's your point? Cap and trade will hurt coal? Yes. Do both candidates support it? Yes. Does big Coal? Never.

You tell me how one is different than the other.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: What does any of this have to do with Obama's plan to bankrupt the coal industry...something I am PRETTY DARN CERTAIN McCain doesn't have on his agenda?

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 11-03-2008).]

The problem is, WE DON'T NEED cap and trade. CO2 isn't driving warming. The planet hasn't warmed in 10 years. This could be the biggest scam in human history, nothing more than a money grab. And I disagree with McCain over his support of it. But at least he doesn't intend to bankrupt business. That's reserved for Obama, the guy cozy with Marxism.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: Wrong again. According to Ohio's George Voinovich: http://www.c-spanarchives.o...ode/77531&id=7351631

In order to be wrong "again" I would have to have been wrong in the first place. And I am neither.

I'll ask again, "When did McCain say he would bankrupt the coal industry?

Provision of a link is required (uh, and this time, try to supply one that addresses the question)

When did Obama say he would "bankrupt the coal industry?" I don't recall hearing that one either.

The effect of the two senators plans are equivalent. You can't build a new coal plant without significant financial risk. Neither candidate said they were going to bankrupt the coal industry and you're putting words in Obama's mouth.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: In order to be wrong "again" I would have to have been wrong in the first place. And I am neither. I'll ask again, "When did McCain say he would bankrupt the coal industry? Provision of a link is required (uh, and this time, try to supply one that addresses the question)

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: When did Obama say he would "bankrupt the coal industry?" I don't recall hearing that one either. The effect of the two senators plans are equivalent. You can't build a new coal plant without significant financial risk. Neither candidate said they were going to bankrupt the coal industry and you're putting words in Obama's mouth.

Oh, uh, that's a tough one. Could it be he said it word for word on the audio link in the FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD!?

Jeez, Jeremiah. You give new meaning to hair trigger.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: When did Obama say he would "bankrupt the coal industry?" I don't recall hearing that one either.

Its in the opening post. Don't they teach critical thinking skills in higher education?

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 11-03-2008).]

Don't forget that the Democrats are tied pretty tightly to Al Gore's friends in the "green" industry. Those political backers bought into Gore's fantasy land and put billions into developing "green" technology. Of course Obama is no friend to the coal, oil, gas sectors. If he is elected tomorrow expect real hard times for places like Pennsylvania and West Virginia.

Arn

Let me repeat with caps and bold... SHOW ME WHERE HE SAYS THAT HE WILL "BANKRUPT THE COAL INDUSTRY". Where? Provide the exact quote where Obama says he wants to bankrupt the coal industry. I don't see it. I hear a senator from Ohio telling the world McCain will bankrupt the coal industry, but I don't hear Obama saying anything about bankrupting the industry.

Two candidates support the same legislation with the safe affect and in one case a senator from Ohio says it'll bankrupt the industry and in the other, the guy says it'll bankrupt someone who builds a power plant. No where does anyone say they want to bankrupt the coal industry. No where.

Now I'll insert the obligatory rolleyes.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Oh, uh, that's a tough one. Could it be he said it word for word on the audio link in the FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD!? Jeez, Jeremiah. You give new meaning to hair trigger.

I guess they don't.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: Let me repeat with caps and bold... [b] SHOW ME WHERE HE SAYS THAT HE WILL "BANKRUPT THE COAL INDUSTRY".

No problem. From here, a transcript of the interview:

Imagine if John McCain had whispered somewhere that he was willing to bankrupt a major industry? Would this declaration not immediately be front page news? Well, Barack Obama actually flat out told the San Francisco Chronicle (SF Gate) that he was willing to see the coal industry go bankrupt in a January 17, 2008 interview. The result? Nothing. This audio interview has been hidden from the public...until now. Here is the transcript of Obama's statement about bankrupting the coal industry :

quote Let me sort of describe my overall policy. What I've said is that we would put a cap and trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there. I was the first to call for a 100% auction on the cap and trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted down caps that are being placed, imposed every year. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted. That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches. The only thing I've said with respect to coal, I haven't been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a (sic) ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them.

Amazing that this statement by Obama about bankrupting the coal industry has been kept under wraps until this time.

UPDATE: NewsBusters' Tom Blumer has found out that the San Francisco Chronicle story published on January 18 based upon this January 17 interview did not include any mention of Obama's willingness to bankrupt the coal industry which you can hear on the audio. You can read the story here when you scroll down to the "In His Own Words" section. Way to cover up for The One, SF Chronicle!

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 11-03-2008).]

I see it in the headline, but I don't see it in the transcript. Because, it's NOT IN THERE. Obama has never said he wants to bankrupt the coal industry.

The tape was released in February.

There's no conspiracy. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Again: McCain and Obama support THE SAME POLICY ON COAL there's NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.

Neither candidate will destroy the coal industry but both candidates will seriously screw with coal futures and prevent construction of new coal facilities that do not have "clean coal" tech. There's no honesty or dignity in pushing this.

Period.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Amazing that this statement by Obama about bankrupting the coal industry has been kept under wraps until this time. UPDATE: NewsBusters' Tom Blumer has found out that the San Francisco Chronicle story published on January 18 based upon this January 17 interview did not include any mention of Obama's willingness to bankrupt the coal industry which you can hear on the audio. You can read the story here when you scroll down to the "In His Own Words" section. Way to cover up for The One, SF Chronicle!

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 11-03-2008).]

so, who bankrupted the carraige industry? the horseshoe industry? and so on. most of us want to move forward, not sit and stagnate. which is what BOTH candidates are proposing.

or, are you saying that Obama wants to shut down the mining of coal?

but, again, maybe we should go back to horse & buggy, eh? such liberal thinking - automobiles....bah and these new fangled adding machines.

I bet you rallied against switching to unleaded gas as well. it bankrupt the auto companies!

you know as well as everyone else - we will be burning coal for quite a few more years. but, we WILL transition away from it. WE WILL. nothing lasts forever. know when to hold em, know when to fold em. and so on. yes, there will never be 100% agreement on when to walk away, and when to run but - coal is gonna shifted to the backburner. maybe even a strategic reserve. because it is always gonna have use.

and - did you rally against deisel/electric locomotives vs stream engines too? oh no! think of the coal!

again - BOTH candidates - and most of the nation - wants to move forward from this existing failing energy system. the future is electric

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: but, again, maybe we should go back to horse & buggy, eh?

As long as I can drive it home "drunk" and not have to worry about some jack boot wearing thug stomping all over my rights on a whim... I'm all for that.