quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Nice knowing you, America.

Canada should think about securing its borders. You might be getting an influx of illegal aliens pretty soon.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Urrr, this is a republic down here, if government did what the majority wanted all the time we would be in socialism far deeper than we are. I have to commend somebody that votes for what he thinks is best at the cost of re election. That is the way it should be.

And in a republic the people send a representative to represent them and what they want. Voting against what the people you are sent to represent means you are not representing them. House or REPRESENTATIVES.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 10-03-2008).]

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: * $223M for Alaskan fisherman * $192M for rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands * $128M for auto racing * $33M for companies operating in American Samoa * $10M for film & TV production * $6M for producers of wooden arrows I've been thinking of starting an auto race track in American Samoa. We would be serving Rum and fish at the concession stands. We could do a documentary on it. Truly the land of opportunity.

What people fail to realize is that these were not part and parcel to the bill the senate voted on. These were stand alone bills, previously on the floor to be voted on--in fact, some already had been voted on and passed. They were simply attached to the bill, just like the Mental Health Insurance Parity add-on was. If you want to complain about these types of bills, go back to the rep or senator that originally presented these to Congress for consideration. And, you really should read each one, before complaining about them as a group. Some of them have merit. The tax cut for the wooden arrows made by American children is to give them a break, since they are competing against wooden and plastic arrows made in China. I don't remember which thread it is, but I posted a breakdown of what each section is really for. Not right to paint all with a broad brushstroke.

did everyone forget this or what?

protect against all enemies foreign and domestic.
if you ask me I think the people were just attacked by our own government.
and we the people just bent over for it.
STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!

We're so ****ed!

quote Originally posted by Toddster: We're so ****ed!

You think it's bad now. Wait a year after Obama is elected !

quote Originally posted by Phranc: And in a republic the people send a representative to represent them and what they want. Voting against what the people you are sent to represent means you are not representing them. House or REPRESENTATIVES.

There is NOTHING that binds them to do what the will of the peons demand from day to day, other than the peons can vote them out. They are elected to do what THEY feel is in the best interest of the people they represent.
If you think the people as a whole have a clue how things work or what is best, you are sadly mistaken. The vast majority are nothing short of idiots. This is one of the safeguards against democracy, which anybody with half a brain knows would lead straight to communism with a brief stay at the Socialist Inn. That is a flat guarantee.

I am glad there are some that don't finger to the wind their decisions.

Here's how the house voted:
rollcall

Whodeanie,

I don't know how YOUR individual representatives voted, but I sent emails to both my senators (who I know personally) and my represenetative (who I do not know personally, but have met) urging them to consider a plan similar to what Dave Ramsey outlined and to vote NO on the bailout.

All three did vote no.

Only one KS representative voted yes on this issue.

I think everyone should look to see how THEIR specific represetnative and senators voted, then support (or not) them accordingly in the coming election(s).

The problem with this whole thing was that it was presented as "we have to do this or there's nothing to do". That was not the case and it was disingenuous to portray it that way, IMHO.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by whodeanie: protect against all enemies foreign and domestic. if you ask me I think the people were just attacked by our own government. and we the people just bent over for it. STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: There is NOTHING that binds them to do what the will of the peons demand from day to day, other than the peons can vote them out. They are elected to do what THEY feel is in the best interest of the people they represent. If you think the people as a whole have a clue how things work or what is best, you are sadly mistaken. The vast majority are nothing short of idiots. This is one of the safeguards against democracy, which anybody with half a brain knows would lead straight to communism with a brief stay at the Socialist Inn. That is a flat guarantee. I am glad there are some that don't finger to the wind their decisions.

Those already elected have shown great intellect in letting this happen. The majority of people haven't gotten over extended and borrowed more than they can repay. It is the morons that did that and now the rest of the majority need to bail out the intellegent bankers and losers that went into too much debt. The market showed how great the plan was ending about -160 points on the DOW-Jones after being up about 250 earlier in the day.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Here's how the house voted: rollcall

Thank you for posting that info, I'll reference it on election day.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Whodeanie, I don't know how YOUR individual representatives voted, but I sent emails to both my senators (who I know personally) and my represenetative (who I do not know personally, but have met) urging them to consider a plan similar to what Dave Ramsey outlined and to vote NO on the bailout. All three did vote no. Only one KS representative voted yes on this issue. I think everyone should look to see how THEIR specific represetnative and senators voted, then support (or not) them accordingly in the coming election(s). The problem with this whole thing was that it was presented as "we have to do this or there's nothing to do". That was not the case and it was disingenuous to portray it that way, IMHO. John Stricker

I did call them and the first time they voted no. then all the pork got added then they voted YES! a holes!
the bailout was presented the same way the war was and look how that has worked out for us.
rash decisions make for bad outcomes!

I just read this morning that on top of the 850 billion dollar bailout the US treasury has agreed to pay interest on commercial banks reserves to relieve some of the pressure on the troubled financial sector. They said that is just another way of adding support for the financial institutions. Any guess how much this will cost annually?

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 10-06-2008).]

While I wholeheartedly disagree with the "Bail Out" and intend to vote my conscious come November, I fear that doing so will only empower Speaker Pelosi. That scares the crap out of me. I'm all for a 50/50 split between the powers/parties. If congress is controlled by the Dems, I definitely want the Executive Branch controlled by the Republicans. Senator Mitch McConnell, R, KY voted for this bail out. I intend to let him know how I feel about that.

Ron

A letter from my Congressman.

October 6, 2008





Dear Mr. Kliewer:



Thank you for contacting me to share your thoughts and concerns about our current economic crisis and the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, H.R. 1424.



As you may know, the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act was approved by the House on Friday, October 3, 2008, after passing the Senate on Wednesday, October 1, 2008.



America is facing dire economic consequences. By passing this bill, Congress took an important step toward providing the stability all Americans need to continue to conduct business, pay their mortgages, and go about their everyday lives. I am deeply concerned and disappointed by some of the additional items the Senate added to this emergency economic rescue legislation, but its passage is vital to stabilizing our economy. This bipartisan legislation is designed to provide stability to increasingly strained financial markets that affect not only Wall Street and Main Street, but Minnesotans who are facing difficult decisions in these uncertain times.



The vote in the House of Representatives was a straight yes or no vote on the entire economic package - the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between. I supported this legislation because now more than ever, our concerns and efforts need to be focused on the jobs, home mortgages, and retirement security of Minnesotans - and all Americans.



Thank you again for contacting me. Please let me know if you have any other thoughts, concerns, or suggestions about this or other matters before Congress.





Sincerely,

JOHN KLINE
Member of Congress

An interesting little tidbit for everyone concerning subprimes,,,,,

As early as 2001 president Bush was aware of the potential for difficulties and suggested regulation but was shot down. Alan Greenspan of Federal Reserve also stated the potential for difficulties somewhere around 2003. John McCain helped to co-author legislation for reform and regulation but was shot down by a partisan democratic vote in 2005. Source / Fox News / weekend special on "Economy".

This makes me furious that all of our elected officials knew of this impending train wreck but did nothing until the markets were in serious trouble.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: While I wholeheartedly disagree with the "Bail Out" and intend to vote my conscious come November, I fear that doing so will only empower Speaker Pelosi.

How so ?

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: I just read this morning that on top of the 850 billion dollar bailout the US treasury has agreed to pay interest on commercial banks reserves to relieve some of the pressure on the troubled financial sector. They said that is just another way of adding support for the financial institutions. Any guess how much this will cost annually?

Heh. I just heard that the Federal Reserve has doubled the size of loans available. Where did this money come from ? Are they now also making bad loans ? If credit is so good for the economy, why did they not do it before?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 10-06-2008).]

So to fix the problem of to much credit they added more credit........... And it didn't fix the problem.......

Should have just left it alone and let it happen. The fear of failure has caused an even greater failure.

quote Originally posted by jetman: ....... This makes me furious that all of our elected officials knew of this impending train wreck but did nothing until the markets were in serious trouble.

hmm....sounds familear......
we've known oil/energy was gonna be problem since the 1970's - yet here we sit - almost 40 years later with our thumbs firmly lodged in our buttocks.

that is what sucks about capitilism - things only get done when it is to late. any preventive measure costs to much, yet emergency measures cost so much more....but - I fully understand that when something is prevented - you cant prove it was gonna happen - so your out there being blamed for wasting time & money....friggin blame game....

maybe a new proposal should be put forth where no politician can speak of the past - only the future? much harder to place blame that way....

because it aint democrats fault - it aint republicans fault - it is Washington D.C.'s fault. well - actually - take that back - it is the republicans and democrats fault for dividing our leadership. we are on a bus with 2 steering wheels, each pointing the wrong way. yeah, we'll get far.....

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: we are on a bus with 2 steering wheels, each pointing the wrong way. yeah, we'll get far.....

, I like that.

It is my understanding that nothing has been done yet other than passing the bill. They still have yet to make the distributions etc. This is not an overnight cure, if it is one at all.

I guess everyone needs that ole instant gratification.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: It is my understanding that nothing has been done yet other than passing the bill. They still have yet to make the distributions etc. This is not an overnight cure, if it is one at all. I guess everyone needs that ole instant gratification.

I'm told it's all about putting some confidence back into the credit market. I don't pretend to know much but, I know when I can afford something and when I can't. I'm thinking the entire nation/world is figuring it out. If no one is buying, then they don't need those loans. Banks also want to make better loans now. We're simply having to re-learn the lessons our grand parents and parents were taught about 70 years ago. Nope, we didn't want to listen or learn, guess what, we're going to pay for that stupidity now.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-06-2008).]

when I see people calling this "bail out" bill as Socialization of our financial system it shows either people don't remember there history or were never taught it correctly. If you want to see socialization of our financial system go look at what the Government of this country did to get this Country out of the Great Depression.

I have never called this Bill socialization. Also, I was not taught how the government fixed the Depression. I do know about the WPA. Somewhat. I would like to believe that the American people are responsible for the rise from ashes of the Depression.
Do you have some reading I can do ?