quote Originally posted by Blacktree: My question is: is Mr. Obama just naive, or is he a totalitarianist?

Good question. Government loves to toss around terms like "automatic weapons" or "assault rilfe" when they have no bloody clue what fits the definition and why, or if it even has anything to do with how deadly the weapon is.

I tend to take a fairly literal view of the 2nd Amendment. The right of the people - that's us - to keep and bear arms (that means have firearms) shall not be infringed. The Amendment doesn't say the militia has a right to keep weapons, it says the PEOPLE have a right to keep weapons. It lists the need for a militia as the reason, but the right is not reserved to the militia, it's reserved to the people. Of course, that's my interpretation and if the SCOTUS disagrees, then I either submit to their will or die. Sadly the only other option you have is leaving the country.

Make no mistake, anyone who tries to "defend" their own rights from the state will be killed or at the very least incarcerated. When your voice and your vote stop working, the line between "defense" and "revolution" becomes perilously thin.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: When your voice and your vote stop working, the line between "defense" and "revolution" becomes perilously thin.

Ironically similar to what an early bin Laden said.

What people have got to understand is that the government would love a "revolution" - any violent out breaks, protests, marches, etc. from normal citizens will be cast as "homegrown" terrorists to the rest of the U.S.. People start fearing for their lives and safety and beg for protection, and almost overnight the U.S. will become a totalitarian state.

Violence will only make things much much worse.

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: Ironically similar to what an early bin Laden said. What people have got to understand is that the government would love a "revolution" - any violent out breaks, protests, marches, etc. from normal citizens will be cast as "homegrown" terrorists to the rest of the U.S.. People start fearing for their lives and safety and beg for protection, and almost overnight the U.S. will become a totalitarian state. Violence will only make things much much worse.

I agree. Like I said, if you try to defend your rights, you'll likely die in the process.

The U.S. considered Osama and the Mujahadeen "freedom fighters" when they were battling the Soviets in Afghanistan. When we're fighting them, they're called terrorists. It's all a matter of your point of view. It's the same enemy. Has the enemy changed, or did we?

In the James Bond movie "The Living Daylights" (1987) there was a character loosely based on Osama bin Laden.


Kamran Shah
Played by: Art Malik

Description: Kamran Shah is the leader of the Mujahidin (Afghan resistance) as well as a an Oxford graduate. He helps Bond stop Koskov and, in return, Bond helps the Mujahidin escape from the Russians.

I wonder how he would be portrayed in a modern film? Since the victors write the history, it all depends on if you win or lose. The American Revolutionary War fighters would be considered terrorists by the Crown, but are revered in our history as founding fathers and freedom fighters.

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: What people have got to understand is that the government would love a "revolution" - any violent out breaks, protests, marches, etc. from normal citizens will be cast as "homegrown" terrorists to the rest of the U.S.. People start fearing for their lives and safety and beg for protection, and almost overnight the U.S. will become a totalitarian state.

We may be getting a little off topic here, but I just wanted to say that I agree. I have the feeling that our country is teetering on the edge of a cliff. All it takes is a push.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: We may be getting a little off topic here, but I just wanted to say that I agree. I have the feeling that our country is teetering on the edge of a cliff. All it takes is a push.

Agreed.

The American populace feels disenfranchised; that the government is no longer serving the people.

That is a very serious problem. All coups start that way.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I hear "semi-automatic weapon" on the news a LOT. "He held the store hostage with a semi automatic weapon". Not a gun. A "semiautomatic weapon". Sounds more nefarious, and the media loves it.

I also hear them lump semi-automatic pistols in with "assault rifles" by referring to them all as "automatic weapons."

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I also hear them lump semi-automatic pistols in with "assault rifles" by referring to them all as "automatic weapons."

That helps them get the broader bills passed. By the time the public realizes it was a scam, its too late.

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: Ironically similar to what an early bin Laden said. What people have got to understand is that the government would love a "revolution" - any violent out breaks, protests, marches, etc. from normal citizens will be cast as "homegrown" terrorists to the rest of the U.S.. People start fearing for their lives and safety and beg for protection, and almost overnight the U.S. will become a totalitarian state. Violence will only make things much much worse.

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.


Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

it happened in New Orleans

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: it happened in New Orleans

Marshal Law was declared, they have no rights, they need to understand that.

As far as that old woman, you can't walk up to cops with a revolver in your hand and expect to be treated nicely.

Up here in Canada our police got in hot water when it was revealed that they were selling guns they had confiscated from their owners to local pawn shops. With our current gun reigstration laws, if you have even just a single firearm registered, this gives the police and the RCMP full authority to enter your house and search the premise without any sort of permit or reason required. If they enter your premise and find any guns that have not been registered, they are as good as gone. By registering your firearms, you basically surrender any personal rights you have. The funny thing is, the lefty moonbats out east who are so gung-ho about this program are the same ones who fight tooth and nail to protect the rights of the criminal ilk who use guns to commit violent crimes, and do everything in their power to get these scum back on the streets because their actions are no fault of their own, they are societies.

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 01-07-2008).]

Wow! I would not want to live up there.

Of course "they" can come in your house at their discretion and look in your freezer for fish if you have a sport fishing license here.

Osama Obama. Oooops I meant Obama Husain is pulling away from Hitlary in the polls today.

I cant wait for gun control.
I have the skills & the equipment to make guns. And, it will finally be worthwhile for me to do so.

dont think guns are going away.

just like everything else that has been banned - there will be a black market, making that banned item even more of a problem & burden on the people.

you like pimps? only one reason they exist. to sell illegal goods.
you like drug dealers? only one reason they exist. to sell illegal goods.

why not make a new class of criminal, who can make so much more money than a honest citizen.....good plan.....but - at least this time - it will be ME. cant be a pimp or drug dealer...because I'd be to busy playing in the inventory

cant wait to see them try and regulate lathes & mills.....

Pyrthian's Pistols come get some

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-04-2008).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's never a good idea to use the examples of a few radicals to paint everyone you dislike with a big stereotype brush. It just makes you look like, well, a Republican. JazzMan

Can't that statement be reversed with equal accuracy?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I am a member of the "weak minded Democrat base", what evidence do you have that I'm weak minded? Or should I just regard your statement as the typical stereotypical comment from the uninformed minority that makes all the noise lately? BTW, I'm not against guns, I firmly believe that the Second Amendment means exactly what it says. Period. JazzMan

Sorry, but you are flat wrong. By your response above it proves that you are NOT a member of that weak minded group. :-)

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: BTW, I'm not against guns, I firmly believe that the Second Amendment means exactly what it says. Period.

May I ask your interpretation, then? I also firmly believe the Second Amendment means exactly what it says. Now, the question is, do we both think it says the same thing?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: May I ask your interpretation, then? I also firmly believe the Second Amendment means exactly what it says. Now, the question is, do we both think it says the same thing?

lol - this one of my arguements against ancient religous texts. heres a single page, written 200 years ago, in our own language - and we STILL cant get it right/agree on its meaning.

anyways - most would agree it means people can own weapons. be it a knife, be it a nuke.

not that people are entitled to hairy "bear" arms.....as much fun as that might be....they are mighty strong, ya know

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I cant wait for gun control. I have the skills & the equipment to make guns. And, it will finally be worthwhile for me to do so. cant wait to see them try and regulate lathes & mills.....

Oh, they will.
You will need a permit to own and opporate one, and you better have a good reason.
Your steel purchases will be reported.
Your lathe & mill hours will be logged.
Your projects had better match up with all of the above.

Simple.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-07-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Oh, they will. You will need a permit to own and opporate one, and you better have a good reason. Your steel purchases will be reported. Your lathe & mill hours will be logged. Your projects had better match up with all of the above. Simple.

lol - good luck wit dat! - anyways - maybe the corporate approach: just make sketches of the parts, and outsource my machining all over the wolrd - anywhere but here, eh? maybe they'll regulate what springs are avilable too....

the real cure is ammo. ammo is tougher to make and easier to regulate. most ingredients already are regulated.

quote Originally posted by 88FieroForm: I live is Texas and I have a Texas concealed handgun license, and if Obama wants to take my guns he will have to pry them from my cold dead hands. I will never give up my right to bear arms!!!! Justin

Wasn't this phrase on the list of retired phrases in 1989 ? Way to represent gun owners you moron.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: the real cure is ammo. ammo is tougher to make and easier to regulate. most ingredients already are regulated.

Nope.
Gunpowder is sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate (salt peter), all can be found in nature, with very little processing required.
Stuff it down a piece of one-ended pipe, top it off with a piece of cloth and a ball of lead or rocks, hit it with a flint, an bang-o, you just made ammo damn-near every bit as deadly as the store bought.
Accuricy, range, & reloading will be the defeating factor, though.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-07-2008).]

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: Wasn't this phrase on the list of retired phrases in 1989 ? Way to represent gun owners you moron.

that's a famous quote by Charlton Heston. which as the president of the NRA said the quote again in 2000 at the NRA's 130th convention

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: Wasn't this phrase on the list of retired phrases in 1989 ? Way to represent gun owners you moron.

Three months and almost banned,,,, I wonder why?

quote Originally posted by GT Quick: Wasn't this phrase on the list of retired phrases in 1989 ? Way to represent gun owners you moron.

I just don't get how calling names furthers a conversation, productivly.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Three months and almost banned,,,, I wonder why?

HA.
i didn't even notice the user name.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-04-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Nope. Gunpowder is sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate (salt peter), all can be found in nature, with very little processing required. Stuff it down a piece of one-ended pipe, top it off with a piece of cloth and a ball of lead or rocks, hit it with a flint, an bang-o, you just made ammo damn-near every bit as deadly as the store bought. Accuricy, range, & reloading will be the defeating factor, though.

I dunno - I cant remember the last time I found sulfer, charcoal & potassium nitrate anywhere....
and - on top of that - its been a long time since gunpowder was used for shells....

but - you are on the right track. even your noob cannon is all thats needed in a land without guns. heck, have a bag full. in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

heck - just go and scrape match heads for flash powder. many many ways to propell a projectile. both mechanicaly & chemicly.

My brother in law and I talked about this briefly the other day. How many could see it leading to another civil war if they tried to start taking weapons from civilians? Alot of people have the mind set that "the only way you're taking my gun is over my dead body" and how long would it take for the crowds to start gathering?

quote Originally posted by Silentassassin185: My brother in law and I talked about this briefly the other day. How many could see it leading to another civil war if they tried to start taking weapons from civilians? Alot of people have the mind set that "the only way you're taking my gun is over my dead body" and how long would it take for the crowds to start gathering?

we are MUCH to sly for just "taking" the weapons from civilians. it will be done (or actually - it IS being done) thru economics. the initial steps being registrations. eventually - much like the drivers license - it will swell into yearly fees. just think of how driving costs have ballooned. legal gun ownership will do the same. you will still have the right - just not the $$$ to "bear arms". you will be forced into extended insurance policy's - even your homeowners insurance will be affected.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I dunno - I cant remember the last time I found sulfer, charcoal & potassium nitrate anywhere.... and - on top of that - its been a long time since gunpowder was used for shells.... .

No No man, I saw that Star Trek episode where Kirk finds all that stuff just laying around on the rocks. He stuffs it into a hallow log and bang! Lizard guy gets his.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: My question is: is Mr. Obama just naive, or is he a totalitarianist?

Like a lot of people on the left, they think that their positions of certain subjects are the only positions that make sense....if you are a socialist! ( I have to define socialism here as being a statist, why socialists are statists can fill a book, so I wont address that. ) I've come to realize that every stance a socialist makes is...propaganda.....designed to make you feel good, at the same time hiding their true intentions.

quote 72] He sponsored a bill in 2000 limiting handgun purchases to one per month.

Fairly sure I dont know any semi normal person buying more than one $500+ gun a month.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Fairly sure I dont know any semi normal person buying more than one $500+ gun a month.

No but any restriction is just a stepping stool for the next one. That's what they are for.

quote Originally posted by niemann99: Like a lot of people on the left, they think that their positions of certain subjects are the only positions that make sense....if you are a socialist! ( I have to define socialism here as being a statist, why socialists are statists can fill a book, so I wont address that. ) I've come to realize that every stance a socialist makes is...propaganda.....designed to make you feel good, at the same time hiding their true intentions.

this is true for ALL political standings. no political "system" is complete, 100% fair, or good for everyone.

there is ZERO reason for ANY law to EVER be passed which includes the words gun, weapon, firearm, etc.
in fact - I have a hard time with any law which centers around an OBJECT - and not a behavior.

with killing already illegal - wtf else you need to say about guns? why do I need a gun law to keep from shooting you? its already illegal to kill you. if I'm gonna shoot you - it is already VERY clear that them thar law words are already irrelevant. doesnt matter how many bonus letters you pile on. it is already illegal to kill people.

but, if you like, next time someone is killing you - why not remind them of the law.....

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: with killing already illegal - wtf else you need to say about guns? why do I need a gun law to keep from shooting you? its already illegal to kill you. if I'm gonna shoot you - it is already VERY clear that them thar law words are already irrelevant. doesnt matter how many bonus letters you pile on. it is already illegal to kill people.

If everyone were this logical and rational, gun control wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, not everyone is rational.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: this is true for ALL political standings. no political "system" is complete, 100% fair, or good for everyone. there is ZERO reason for ANY law to EVER be passed which includes the words gun, weapon, firearm, etc. in fact - I have a hard time with any law which centers around an OBJECT - and not a behavior. with killing already illegal - wtf else you need to say about guns? why do I need a gun law to keep from shooting you? its already illegal to kill you. if I'm gonna shoot you - it is already VERY clear that them thar law words are already irrelevant. doesnt matter how many bonus letters you pile on. it is already illegal to kill people. but, if you like, next time someone is killing you - why not remind them of the law.....

In socialist ( read liberal ) speak it's called "gun violence". So if I hit someone with a bat is that "bat violence"? How about shoe violence? or spoon violence? or printer violence? or book violence or....you name it.

That's BLACK Powder. Modern gunpowder is nitro bases.

John Stricker

BTW, I saw that episode of Star Trek too.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Nope. Gunpowder is sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate (salt peter), all can be found in nature, with very little processing required. Stuff it down a piece of one-ended pipe, top it off with a piece of cloth and a ball of lead or rocks, hit it with a flint, an bang-o, you just made ammo damn-near every bit as deadly as the store bought. Accuricy, range, & reloading will be the defeating factor, though.

IT WONT HAPPEN... We have the right to bear arms as like a balance to keep our government from becoming to powerful. No body is taking my 30 something legal semi auto's without paying me a very large amount of money or leaving with a variety of lead in their side. Im positive that all semi auto gun owners would agree to some degree.

Regulations and tax etc.. good point. I hope it doesnt come to that. Let alone another civil war. I guess you could always get reloading tools. I wonder if you can still get salt peter off the shelf anywhere? I asked my pharmacy and they dont carry it. Hmm. Worse comes to worse.. itl become more of an art than a hobby - we will have to get our supplies from nature like previously stated lol.

[This message has been edited by Chris Hodson (edited 01-11-2008).]