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[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-04-2008).]

I don't see how ANY of those gazillionaires in government could understand the financial plight of the average American. As long as they're making money...

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1986 SE 350 V8

How do you define a recession?

Inflation isn't a recession, but it can be very painful to your wallet.
Bank failures, foreclosures and consumer debt isn't a recession.

If GDP declines for 2 consecutive quarters, then we have a recession. Period.

That is not to say we don't have some serious economic problems, like the food and fuel inflation rates you mentioned. But people like labels and calling the current economy a "recession" makes people feel like their pain is being legitimized. As if no one would notice skyrocketing fuel prices until you use the word "recession."

He's 100% correct. The down turn is like a run on a bank. You start a rumor that the bank is shaky and pretty soon everybody starts withdrawing their money. Before you know it, the bank IS shaky. Self fullfilling prophecy.

Jazz, I won't go into the reason's why economies rise and fall but suffice it to say that the fundamental elements of a sound economy are ALL still here. Amercia has no shortage of willing manpower, natural resources, technological superiority, and capital. The reason we are not doing well is because the Dems have everyone SO convinced that the bubble is about to burst that people are "running on the bank". Or more specifically, they are NOT buying houses even though this is a GOLDEN opportunity to do so. They are NOT buying as many consumer goods, new cars, luxury items, etc. And as a result, business is being forced to cut back. Our overseas markets have helped somewhat as a result of the declining dollar but that can't last forever.

You want to know what the solution is? GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE! If all Americans would just do that then the "problem" would disappear overnight. This is the most blabbed about non-recession in history! The smart money is buying like crazy and the dumbasses who are cowering in the corner wondering when the sky will fall are going to get poorer and poorer while the wealthy get richer...not becuase of policy, but because they are taking the above mentioned advice.

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[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-04-2008).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's hard for me to fathom, really. You see people spending more of their money on energy and food, and general inflation for that matter, yet you honestly wonder why they're spending less on other things that aren't as important. It's like you can't even comprehend the fact that somebody could reach into their wallet and find that it was empty.

Pokey can attest to the fact that I have been doing that for the past month! Why do you think I have been working 7 days a week lately. The difference is that I ACCEPT that times get hard and that the solution is NOT to hold your hand out but to roll your sleves up. I'm in the thick of the economic down turn as a real estate specialist but you won't hear any complaints from me. I just work harder and I'm doing fine. When things pick up I'll be doing even better.

quote Until you can actually comprehend that in a real, visceral manner I honestly don't think you can grasp what's happening in this economy. I will commend you for choosing a good career field, though. Houses will always sell, and you'll always get a cut. JazzMan

I can and I do. I don't mean this as a put down Jazz, just a statement of fact, I have forgotten more about economics than you will ever know. I understand the reasons for this down turn all too clearly.

And I am not loaded Jazz. I live in a very modest 3/2 house of 1305 sf, I have two car payments, and I try to squirrel away some money each month for the kids college fund by working my ass off as both a general contractor AND real estate agent. Today I was in the office doing paperwork and arranging to show property to clients, tomorrow I am in my jeans installing lights and door knobs and making some plumbing repairs on a house I am trying to flip. Yesterday I took my kids to an airshow in the morning and then we went out to lunch and then at 2:00 I went to the job site where I put in 6 straight hours of work...that was my Sunday. No football, no brewski's with the boys, no sitting around whining about Bush and the economy. Just working hard for my family.

In short..I GET IT! And when I see people whining and doing nothing about it, I don't have much trouble seeing the problem. If I can get by ANYBODY can.

quote If I didn't have Asperger's I'd probably have done the same thing, but it takes a fairly social and charismatic type personality to succeed in that field and those are traits that I can't have so I'd never be able to compete against those like you.

I genuinely empathize with your medical condition Jazz. I mean that sincerely. But I have an observations to make: I saw a man on TV once who had no arms and no legs. He was not only getting by but he was thriving! Gorgeous wife, two great kids, top paying job...and not an excuse in sight! A genuine inspiration. He has had to endure more than you or I will ever know and he turned lemons into lemonade through hard work and confidence. The reporter asked him how he managed to get by with his handicap and he said, "What handicap?" There are achievers and there are excuse makers. Pick a team.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-14-2008).]

To be fair Toddster, it is often much easier to overcome or deal with a physical medical problem than a mental one--not that Aspbergers doesn't have it's roots in a "physical" disconnect, but it is an ailment you can't feel or touch--or even know it exists without a battery of tests.

Talk to any of the approx 3 million people with something called Fibromyalgia, and you will understand a bit better. My wife has it. A mostly mental ailment, with physical manifestations.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's hard for me to fathom, really. You see people spending more of their money on energy and food, and general inflation for that matter, yet you honestly wonder why they're spending less on other things that aren't as important. It's like you can't even comprehend the fact that somebody could reach into their wallet and find that it was empty. Until you can actually comprehend that in a real, visceral manner I honestly don't think you can grasp what's happening in this economy. I will commend you for choosing a good career field, though. Houses will always sell, and you'll always get a cut. If I didn't have Asperger's I'd probably have done the same thing, but it takes a fairly social and charismatic type personality to succeed in that field and those are traits that I can't have so I'd never be able to compete against those like you. JazzMan

Being broke also doesn't mean the economy is in recession. That's why I asked what your definition is.
Everyone is feeling the pinch of rising prices - some more than others - but if the economy isn't shrinking it's not a recession. Slower growth is still growth.

You seem to believe the idea that it's a recession when your neighbor loses his job. It's a depression when you lose yours.

Phil Gramm is right.

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[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-04-2008).]