...the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’.
[This message has been edited by 4-mulaGT (edited 06-27-2008).]
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04:11 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I sincerely hope this post was a joke... YOU saw a missile hit the Pentagon? REALLY? And "NO ONE EVER SEEN A PLANE HIT?" That's funny, because there are multiple eyewitnesses who say different. Interesting...
It's unfortunate that in almost any discussion here in OT where people don't agree on cause/effect, it becomes dumbed down to a Republican/Democrat mud slinging contest. Boring man, boring...
I suppose we should be grateful that by and large this Republican/Democrat baloney doesn't enter into the discussion in the tech threads when Fiero problems are being troubleshooted.
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04:25 PM
AntiKev Member
Posts: 2333 From: Windsor, Ontario, Canada Registered: May 2004
Originally posted by Patrick: It's unfortunate that in almost any discussion here in OT where people don't agree on cause/effect, it becomes dumbed down to a Republican/Democrat mud slinging contest. Boring man, boring...
Patrick,
The reason it becomes dumbed down is that invariably the conspiracy theorists require some impossible re-writing of the laws of physics in order for their conspiracies to be true. That and they never seemed to have learned about Occam's Razor in school.
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04:31 PM
FieroFanatic13 Member
Posts: 3521 From: Big Rapids, MI, USA Registered: Jul 2006
It's unfortunate that in almost any discussion here in OT where people don't agree on cause/effect, it becomes dumbed down to a Republican/Democrat mud slinging contest. Boring man, boring...
I suppose we should be grateful that by and large this Republican/Democrat baloney doesn't enter into the discussion in the tech threads when Fiero problems are being troubleshooted.
This is also oftern the case because these conspiracy threads are usually ABOUT Bush or Republicans and almost always about BUSH supposedly wanting a war. It's not usually a general conspiracy issue- it's usually a "Republicans did it" conspiracy theory...
That being said, it is good that political affiliations don't impact the regular forum areas.
[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 06-27-2008).]
It's unfortunate that in almost any discussion here in OT where people don't agree on cause/effect, it becomes dumbed down to a Republican/Democrat mud slinging contest. Boring man, boring...
I suppose we should be grateful that by and large this Republican/Democrat baloney doesn't enter into the discussion in the tech threads when Fiero problems are being troubleshooted.
My Indy keeps overheating. It's Bush's fault.
------------------ Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck '87 GT Auto '88 Ferrario '84 Indy
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04:37 PM
FieroFanatic13 Member
Posts: 3521 From: Big Rapids, MI, USA Registered: Jul 2006
The reason it becomes dumbed down is that invariably the conspiracy theorists require some impossible re-writing of the laws of physics in order for their conspiracies to be true. That and they never seemed to have learned about Occam's Razor in school.
Just to help out those who don't already know, Occam's Razor simply put is:
"Any hypothesis should be independent of all unnecessary assumptions; if two hypotheses fit the observations equally well, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be chosen."
In a nutshell, this means that actual evidence should be used in formulating your hypothesis while assumptions, presumptions and other fill in the blanks with what I want to be true should not be... This is LOGIC instead of EMOTION. Quite scientific, actually.
[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 06-27-2008).]
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04:43 PM
PFF
System Bot
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
to start with: the towers did NOT fall because they were hit by airplanes. we all saw the planes hit, right? all agree? the towers continued to stand, right? all agree? so - that must mean something else actually caused the final failure. and - with such a gaping hole in the frame - it would not take much. maybe even a large bird landing in the wrong spot. I can easily see metal fatigue compounded by high heat causeing the final pieces of frame to give. just the fact that they stood as long as they did is in fact amazing. betcha the soon to be tallest building in Dubia wont do so well when I crash into it
ok - so - why did they fall? to start with, these particluar buildings are exoskeleton. which means they do NOT behave like other buildings. clearly. any other building hit by planes would have made a MUCH bigger mess. with an exoskelton - the innards fall first. and, they fall inside the structure. if you actually did watch the videos - like so many claim they have - you will see that is EXACTLY what happens. the innards collapse at the point of impact, and above. this in turns buckles the remaining exoskelton at the impact level, and cascades downwards - thru the interior. if you are trying to compare the collapse of these exoskelton buildings with the collapse of traditional buildings - yes - you WILL be confused & lost. the frame is on the outside - the collapse happens inside, and pulls the outside structure inwards & down. thats why it looked like a controlled demolition. because an exoskelton buildings collapses very nicely & orderly.
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04:48 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36554 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
The reason it becomes dumbed down is that invariably the conspiracy theorists require some impossible re-writing of the laws of physics in order for their conspiracies to be true. That and they never seemed to have learned about Occam's Razor in school.
That still doesn't explain why this imaginary arbitrary line needs to be drawn separating "Republicans" from "Democrats", "nazis" from "leftist liberals".
And I'm not just referring to threads here about "conspiracies". It seems in many discussions in OT if a person doesn't have an intelligent response to a post then the easiest thing for them to do is to ridicule the other person's supposed political affiliation. It is SO childish, and it happens here again and again and again... Honestly, it's difficult to believe that real "adults" behave in this manner.
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04:51 PM
4-mulaGT Member
Posts: 1210 From: Somewhere beetween raisin' hell... and saving grace. oh... and MN Registered: Jan 2006
That still doesn't explain why this imaginary arbitrary line needs to be drawn separating "Republicans" from "Democrats", "nazis" from "leftist liberals".
And I'm not just referring to threads here about "conspiracies". It seems in many discussions in OT if a person doesn't have an intelligent response to a post then the easiest thing for them to do is to ridicule the other person's supposed political affiliation. It is SO childish, and it happens here again and again and again... Honestly, it's difficult to believe that real "adults" behave in this manner.
I think its because there is such a difference in the two ways of thinking, black always wants to attack white.
I think its because there is such a difference in the two ways of thinking, black always wants to attack white.
It is because the Dems here keep making outlandish claims completely without any common sense being applied. And they are liberal panty waist pinko fags
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05:26 PM
FieroFanatic13 Member
Posts: 3521 From: Big Rapids, MI, USA Registered: Jul 2006
That still doesn't explain why this imaginary arbitrary line needs to be drawn separating "Republicans" from "Democrats", "nazis" from "leftist liberals".
And I'm not just referring to threads here about "conspiracies". It seems in many discussions in OT if a person doesn't have an intelligent response to a post then the easiest thing for them to do is to ridicule the other person's supposed political affiliation. It is SO childish, and it happens here again and again and again... Honestly, it's difficult to believe that real "adults" behave in this manner.
I've never been involved in any NON POLITICAL discussion where someone's politics was suddenly ridiculed...
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05:30 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36554 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Red, it'll warm the cockles of your heart to know that I was referred to as a "puritan c*nt" (and even a, shudder... "conservative") recently Here. You guys just don't know what to label me.
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05:43 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
sorry - as soon as you drag it political - it shows you have no actual facts left, and are now just grasping & flailing. I guarantee there are both Dems & Reps who had prior warning of the 9/11 attack. and that statement is very untelling. these same dems & reps got the warning about the attack last week, the april 20th attack, and the attack that is scheduled for tomarrow. warning is useless. all you can do is weigh against common sense & reality to guess if its credible. I am sure september 10th - noone would have thought the scale of coordination existed. well, at least at the public level. I am sure plenty people heard the plan, and dismissed it as outragous. and - after it happened - not one would admit they heard about it - because now they are azzhole #1.
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05:44 PM
FieroFanatic13 Member
Posts: 3521 From: Big Rapids, MI, USA Registered: Jul 2006
Also a few weeks ago Howard Stern had Jesse Ventura on the phone. He use to be a SEAL w/ the Underwater Demolition Team. That day he said the towers fell due to a control demolition.
[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 06-27-2008).]
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06:34 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9485 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
to start with: the towers did NOT fall because they were hit by airplanes. we all saw the planes hit, right? all agree? the towers continued to stand, right? all agree? so - that must mean something else actually caused the final failure. and - with such a gaping hole in the frame - it would not take much. maybe even a large bird landing in the wrong spot. I can easily see metal fatigue compounded by high heat causeing the final pieces of frame to give. just the fact that they stood as long as they did is in fact amazing. betcha the soon to be tallest building in Dubia wont do so well when I crash into it
ok - so - why did they fall? to start with, these particluar buildings are exoskeleton. which means they do NOT behave like other buildings. clearly. any other building hit by planes would have made a MUCH bigger mess. with an exoskelton - the innards fall first. and, they fall inside the structure. if you actually did watch the videos - like so many claim they have - you will see that is EXACTLY what happens. the innards collapse at the point of impact, and above. this in turns buckles the remaining exoskelton at the impact level, and cascades downwards - thru the interior. if you are trying to compare the collapse of these exoskelton buildings with the collapse of traditional buildings - yes - you WILL be confused & lost. the frame is on the outside - the collapse happens inside, and pulls the outside structure inwards & down. thats why it looked like a controlled demolition. because an exoskelton buildings collapses very nicely & orderly.
cute.. but when you actually have a degree in structural engineering, and demolitions.. come see us.
As someone who as studied how to blow bridges, buildings, roadways etc All you have to do is look at the WTC engineering/design.. I gave a really simple example on another thread. The crap you are throwing up, might as well as say it was a canadian plot to destabilze the US so they could have more access to bacon
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06:57 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9485 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
cute.. but when you actually have a degree in structural engineering, and demolitions.. come see us.
As someone who as studied how to blow bridges, buildings, roadways etc All you have to do is look at the WTC engineering/design.. I gave a really simple example on another thread. The crap you are throwing up, might as well as say it was a canadian plot to destabilze the US so they could have more access to bacon
I don't think The Anarchist Cookbook counts as a study of how to blow up high rise buildings.
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07:01 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
I don't think The Anarchist Cookbook counts as a study of how to blow up high rise buildings.
True.. But the US gov't paid good money for me to know how to do such things
I'm no psycho, crazy. just a passing interest in how.. based on training and established rules of demolitions.
IE..would I use C4 or TNT?? I'd use TNT.. more "shove" than cut. I won't / don't care to explain in much more detail how to bring down a building other than what I do know and what I know of how the WTC was constructed I don't harbor any conspiracy theorys.
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07:12 PM
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9114 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
It's really amazing how when people hear that World Trade was designed to withstand the impact of a wayward airliner they automatically assume (much like the Titanic for example) that they would never fall. Given the fact that the airplane was almost double the weight and double the fuel capacity of the aircraft it was designed (BTW an unproven design at that) to absorb, it comes as no surprise to me that the internal structure of the building failed.
As far as conspiracies are concerned I do believe the government KNEW what these people were up to. They KNEW they were terrorists or had ties to (at the time well called them Muslim extremists) terrorist groups yet the were permitted to board airliners.
Riiiight... and I suppose many still believe the main was blown up by the Spanish and the Alamo was in U.S. territory and that the huge blip on Hawaii's radar scope was a flight of 5 B-17s... Oh and the most important assets at the time were not in Pearl but were called out to sea on an impromptu maneuver while the 30 year old junk was left behind for easy pickins. The freaking Arizona was commissioned in 1916!!! It was very much outdated technology.
The loss of life was tragic but the reason for that loss of life is even more tragic when you consider the U.S. government has a know history for sticking its nose in other peoples business despite the warnings... then suddenly "out of the blue" for no apparent reason... KERPOW!!!
The historical pattern is very very obvious.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-27-2008).]
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07:50 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
sorry - as soon as you drag it political - it shows you have no actual facts left, and are now just grasping & flailing. I guarantee there are both Dems & Reps who had prior warning of the 9/11 attack. and that statement is very untelling. these same dems & reps got the warning about the attack last week, the april 20th attack, and the attack that is scheduled for tomarrow. warning is useless. all you can do is weigh against common sense & reality to guess if its credible. I am sure september 10th - noone would have thought the scale of coordination existed. well, at least at the public level. I am sure plenty people heard the plan, and dismissed it as outragous. and - after it happened - not one would admit they heard about it - because now they are azzhole #1.
Ya.. they heard it in 93 during the first tower bombing.. but Clinton took real good care of that with the FBI..
WTF ppl.. an entire race/religion declares war on you and you're like.. well that isnt polite.. Fine.. whatever.. we'll have the Obama facist/sharia law states on the coasts and the the mouth breather christian states in the middle.. pick now where where you want to live
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07:56 PM
Chris Hodson Member
Posts: 3068 From: Carpentersville Registered: Aug 2006
Thank you for those who have actually been posting information & facts, videos etc, Emotional posts are not exactly helping me form a more educated opinion on how the buildings just collapsed like a controlled demolition.
"It seems in many discussions in OT if a person doesn't have an intelligent response to a post then the easiest thing for them to do is to ridicule the other person's supposed political affiliation. It is SO childish, and it happens here again and again and again... Honestly, it's difficult to believe that real "adults" behave in this manner."
If you ridicule another persons political affiliation back your attack up with facts. Thats the only thing that will potentially keep this out of the trash can.
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08:27 PM
PFF
System Bot
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
cute.. but when you actually have a degree in structural engineering, and demolitions.. come see us.
As someone who as studied how to blow bridges, buildings, roadways etc All you have to do is look at the WTC engineering/design.. I gave a really simple example on another thread. The crap you are throwing up, might as well as say it was a canadian plot to destabilze the US so they could have more access to bacon
so, are you saying is WAS brought down by explosives/controlled demolition? hmpf....thought you were a little more serious than that....
It couldn't have been planes that brought down the twin towers because on the ground the planes were on conveyor belts that moved with the same speed but in opposite direction of the planes inside a studio that was made to look like the lunar surface so it was impossible for those planes to fly. And the plane that supposedly hit the pentagon? This magic airplane enters the Pentagon at the first floor level, headed downward at an angle of 17 degrees. It then moves upward in order to leave the outermost ring where it waits 1.6 seconds, turns right and continues into Ring E. Then, the plane heads downward at an angle of 27 degrees, destroying several offices. The plane continues downward and then enters Ring D - again destroying several offices. It then leaves ring D - from which it later falls out and is found in almost pristine condition on a stretcher in a corridor of Parkland Hospital.
So Cliff, are you saying that all four of the aircraft that day were remotely controlled from the Texas Schoolbook Depository or from the grassy knowl?
------------------ Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck '87 GT Auto '88 Ferrario '84 Indy
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11:54 PM
Jun 29th, 2008
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
so, are you saying is WAS brought down by explosives/controlled demolition? hmpf....thought you were a little more serious than that....
What? Nope.. an actual demolition / controlled fall would have used different stress points. I was being serious. I haven't done the math on exactly how much to use, but I do know that if I were to attempt it with conventional demolitions I would have gone lower on the building and probably staged 4 shots on alternating floors.. I'm not a full blown engineer, but i'm not a farmer mixing diesel/nitrate bombs to pull stumps either.
Ok here goes. There are alot of conspiracies going on but come on, people. The buildings where designed to withstand an impact,which they did. The only thing is that an airplane doesn't only impact a structure .when the aircraft hit it introduced a sh!tload of fuel to the equation. That fuel burns hot enough to melt steel. Thats why turbine engine are made with titanium and chromoly steel, so they don't melt. Alot of engines have internal componets that are even coated with ceramics to help with heat . The towers metal structure was weakended by the high tempratures of the fire. Then throw on top of that the weight of the floors above the impact floor . That weight was enough to make the weakened structure fail. Once the top portions of the structure started to fall the inertia and mass of the 10+ floors was enough to totally destroy the floors as it crashed down. I think people tend to not realise how big aircraft are. Also the amount of fuel they carry, over 5,000 gallons ,easy. America got sucker punched on 9/11. We got caught resting on our laurals and we paid the price. The pentagon camera has a cloud around it as well. I have seen the video of the "object"flying past the camera . I have to ask this. What was the framerate of the camera? how was it focused? Was it a wide angle lens? Many people have flown in commercial aircraft before and most have seen the little flight info screen that tells altitude and speed. Since you are at 38K feet 580 mph doesn't seem that fast but it is. just think of how much distance a plane can cover in half a second when it is traveling 400-600 mph. A nascar stock car can cover 100 yards a second traveling 200 mph. so did the security camera have 100 yards covered in its feild of view? i'm betting no. I'm also betting it had a low frame per second rate, which made the plane out to be a blur since it was hauling a$$ ! How do you explain the missing people that where on the flight? Im sure the next of kin would like to hear your story.
