quote Originally posted by cliffw: If your kid is dying in your arms you do not need permission to speed. Any life threatening event is legal reason enough. Who is anyone to judge why someone else is in a hurry ?

Bingo.

I drive in the left lane a lot (at a curtious 10-15 over when traffic and weather allow), but when approached from behind (and it happens a lot) its safer to slide over and slow down to right lane speed for a minute than to hog the passing lane. Who am I to say the other guy can't go 100 if he wants ? It's nice to have a 'bird dog' up ahead to distract the next speed trap anyway.

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 05-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Personally, if I'm obeying the law by going the speed limit in any lane and someone flies up on me flipping and beeping for me to get out of their way i flat out refuse. I'm liable to simply stop in the middle of the road to stop them and traffic. Or run them off the road if they try to fly around and cut me off. Or follow them home....

As other's have said, you should not be driving. If you intentionally run me off the road the police will either take you to jail or the morgue. You follow me home & they damn sure will be taking you to the mourge. I don't have any qualms whatsoever in using my 9mm on my own property. What if the guy in a hurry behind you is taking his wife in labor to the hospital? What if someone is bady hurt & going to the hospital? Whatever the reason, if someone wants to go faster than you MOVE OVER & LET THEM BY! There's NO REASON WHATSOEVER for you to block them.
Back on subject. Yes there are a lot of cars these days that get better mileage at speeds higher than 55. It all depends on the aero, the gearing, & the power band of the engine. A lot of cars are geared high (everything has overdrive now) to meet corporate mileage figures.
Paul

quote Originally posted by cliffw: If your kid is dying in your arms you do not need permission to speed. Any life threatening event is legal reason enough. Who is anyone to judge why someone else is in a hurry ?

another fine point. I see many folk who take "getting passed" like it is some form of cutting down their manhood. just traffic. everyone has their days. some folk even enjoy doing the traffic zipping like, imagining everyone else is highly impressed with their skills & reflexes. the SLOWEST way to get ANYWHERE is on someone elses bumper. if people heed the "slow traffic keep right" - the side affect becomes: left lane passing only. and the poor guy who has to get his kid to the hospital - can get there - without having to deal with someone putzing around, being a jacka$$. this applies to ALL roads - not just the freeway. obviously - boulevards & turnarounds muck it up. just keep it in mind. EVERYONE will be better off.

and, again - we understand the reluctance to move over. its easy to ride along with noone in front of you. you can read, text, talk on the phone, look for crap under your seat, smack the kids, etc.

lol I bet whatever you;re driving, drafting a semi at 65 yields better fuel economy than going 55 on the open road. Anybody see that Mythbusters episode ?

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Well go argue with the Washington state patrol about it. Unless you are law enforcement or an aid vehicle you do not have permission to speed. What I state is not hypothetical, it is exactly what the officer told us and the guy with the head concussion. Heh, this is like the old "everyone else was doing it" excuse when you get picked out of a line of speeding cars and get your golden greenie award.

Instead of taking an officer's word for it, how about actually looking at what Washington state law says:
I. No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. '46.61.425(1)
II. No person shall drive continuously in the left lane of a multilane roadway when it impedes the flow of traffic. '46.61.100(4)
III. When driving a vehicle on a highway having two or more lanes of traffic in the same direction, a person shall drive in the right-hand lane except when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow.

Can you find where it says anything about following the posted speed limit? How about the last part of the last sentence- a person shall drive in the right hand lane except when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow. Its in the law, it is dumb, but still the law. You might want to find that Washington state patrol officer and alert him to his misunderstanding of THE LAW as it is written. I don't like it either, but that is the way it is.

My wife was in an accident a few months back. You can bet I was speeded very excessively on county roads to get to the scene after getting the call. Same as I do anytime a personal emergency ocurrs. My response to the situation is for no one but the law to decide, if they can catch up to me.

Regarding the blocking of traffic. I have an older family member who several years ago was cited for impeding the flow of traffic. She got a ticket while going 70 in a 65. Not a ticket for speeding, but for impeding traffic. When you live in a commuter city (mass exodus begins at 4pm), traffic FLIES, if you don't/can't keep up, get off the highway. I'll add, this family member was floored that they got a ticket for impeding traffic. My reponse was, what were you expecting? It only takes so many people honking and flipping the bird to realize YOU are the one causing the problem, not the thousands of folks passing you.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Without a mile long post here, my X and I got into a tiff with a motorist for this very thing. He was a big dude and thought that actually means something in the real world, I guess I was supposed to be scared. The police (state patrol) ended up involved and set him straight,,,,, after I did

I don't know if you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds to someone taller then 5'8", but let's replace "big guy" with "white guy". I can no more control being my size then you can control being a honky. I don't know if Bud Light now comes with the ability to read minds or if he told you that he thought that bigger people have different laws, I can assure you as someone who is 6'6" and 285 pounds as of my post breakfast dump, I do not think that the laws are any different for me.

However, if some jackass wants to start following me, wanting to have a word with me, I am always happy to oblige. It seems to take the argument out of most people when they are trying to bully my car around on the road, and I get out of my car, and keep getting out. All they are usually left with is 'Well just because you think you can kick anyone's ass..." Well, I don't go around thinking I can kick everyone's ass any more then I go around thinking that I'll get paid more as a white male then as a minority. Ignorant thinking. I don't waste my time deluding myself with that. I'm just speaking as a single representative of someone who turned out differently in the genetic lotto, of course I could be the only one. That's why you see such a problem in the news of marauding bands of six footers kicking the crap out of everyone who crosses them.


Short people got, no reason
Short people, they got no reason
Short people, they got no reason to liiiive....

Randy Newman


Love you Hughie!

quote Originally posted by cliffw: If your kid is dying in your arms you do not need permission to speed. Any life threatening event is legal reason enough. Who is anyone to judge why someone else is in a hurry ?

Your ignoring everything else in my post. Like

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Don't get me wrong here, I am a courteous driver, I do not lane hog, and generally drive what we like to call around here "a polite 5 over" I was only sharing an actual encounter with an officer in this situation.

"Any life threatening event is legal reason enough."

I an not sure that is true at all. but I will add that it in my eyes would certainly be understandable.


"Who is anyone to judge why someone else is in a hurry?"

Just for starters "IF" it was an emergency I would think that the driver would have the good sense to have his warning flashers on. That is what I have done while rushing some one to the emergency room. In fact I was pulled over for it and given an escort, BUT I would have gotten there faster had I not been speeding, running the stop sign and pulled over as a result.

Sorry , but we judge each other all day long, everyday, all the time, in every aspect of our lives.

hazard flashers are rarely noticed in rearview mirrors. hence the flashy (euro) headlights.

and - being this is a Fiero Forum - are we allowed to mention the "euro flashes"? since normally have no lights to flash.....

quote Originally posted by Cooter: I. No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. '46.61.425(1) .

Well you might read what you write yourself. "normal and reasonable movement of traffic" that IS the speed limit. Sorry. you go ahead and inform the next cop that thinks you are not being reasonable for speeding that the law is on your side.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Sorry , but we judge each other all day long, everyday, all the time, in every aspect of our lives.

Unnecessary comment redacted.

[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 05-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Well you might read what you write yourself. "normal and reasonable movement of traffic" that IS the speed limit. Sorry. you go ahead and inform the next cop that thinks you are not being reasonable for speeding that the law is on your side.

I have. No ticket. Next....

I'm way too lazy to look it up right now, but I know they recently had to follow some law around here that required that CalTrans raised the speed limit on a local patch of highway from 55 to 65 because the majority of traffic was flowing at that pace. They would have lost highway funds if they had not, IIRC. Otherwise what is to prevent localities to set up speed traps? Suddenly speed limits drop without any regard for rational traffic flow or safety, and it's just going to be tickets and accidents.

quote Originally posted by Rainman: When you live in a commuter city (mass exodus begins at 4pm), traffic FLIES, if you don't/can't keep up, get off the highway.

That's just it. During the rush hours there's a lot more traffic on the road than lane space. [sarcasm] In a perfect world the freeways would be 18 lanes wide; figure 3 for merging, 2 for big rigs only, 2 for carpool lanes, 3 for folks to cut each other off in, a couple for passing, and 6 for road construction. Then MAYBE you could expect to merge on and set the cruise at your most efficient speed and save fuel.[/sarcarm] We just can't afford to design the roads to handle the volumes at rush hour; they'd be ungodly expensive to build and maintain.

Realistically, it's about maintaining an optimum flow of traffic. Generally the passing lane is more efficient than the right lane despite the higher speeds. The RH lane has a lot of stop-and-go at the various entrance ramps; and changing speed a lot uses more fuel than driving faster. When traffic isn't a factor I prefer to set the cruise at 70-75 and chill. But in rush hour traffic I feel I have a responsibility to flow with traffic. The choices are either 1 (stop-and-go), or 2 (drive a little faster than I'd really like to).

It just gets under my skin when someone chooses option 3 (set the cruise at your chosen speed in the left lane; screw everyone else. My SUV gets 17 mpg on cruise but only 15 if I keep up with traffic.) Sorry bub, but you're choice of lifestyle isn't the other guy's problem.

The ones that really have it bad in rush hour are the guys driving the big rigs. They can't get away with driving left-lane speed, and there is no efficient speed in the right lane. If they maintain a decent following distance someone will wedge their car into that open space, defeating the purpose of laying back in the first place. When someone up ahead gets cut off and hauls on the brakes the truckers must really sh!t a brick.

I guess what I'm getting at is the mpg gain by reducing posted speeds to 55 is just not practical in the real world. There are too many variables other than posted speed limit. On a treadmill a given car might use less fuel at a lower speed, but when you jam a road full of vehicles and look at each car's average mpg the biggest influence is not speed, but rather how smoothly the stream of vehicles can flow. Slowing the average speed just keeps more vehicles on the same road at the same time; jamming things up more.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: I don't know if you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds to someone taller then 5'8", but let's replace "big guy" with "white guy". I can no more control being my size then you can control being a honky. I don't know if Bud Light now comes with the ability to read minds or if he told you that he thought that bigger people have different laws, I can assure you as someone who is 6'6" and 285 pounds as of my post breakfast dump, I do not think that the laws are any different for me. !

I am just over 6 feet and it did not sound ridiculous to me. This guy was around six four with a big belly, easily 250lbs.

Sorry if I pushed your buttons, I was only giving my take on THIS particular situation with a particular person. He obviously thought because HE was a big guy he was going to get his way and was very aggressive, not only with his driving but by physically attaching me at the off ramp.

"he obviously thought" Again with the mind reading. Must be nice.

Hey mindreader, what finger am I holding up?

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: "he obviously thought" Again with the mind reading. Must be nice. Hey mindreader, what finger am I holding up?

Lemme try...

Umm, the middle one ?

Actually, I was having tea, so it was my pinky.

Here's the flip side of Red's story. Happened to me on Mother's Day. We're still going to need couples counseling over this. Warning, some language may not be suitable for minors or employers.

http://realfierotech.com/ph...iewtopic.php?t=12935

Or from PTCrew, Learn it or Burn it.
http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB...storder=asc&start=15
[quote="stimpy"]I think the Sunbird guy had some latent issues to work out. Maybe he was hoping that you are gay and would somehow help him out. I mean the Sunbird is a car for receptionists. Well, at any case, hopefully this gives you some empathy for gay people and abuse they get.

As far as Road Rage, this past Sunday night I wound up making my wife cry during a freeway encounter on I-5 going through the Central Valley around Santa Nella. I'm driving my wife's car, 04 GT PT sedan, cruising along around 85 mph, passing some occaisional light traffic, and it's 9:00 pm so it's dark.
About 10 miles north of Santa Nella, I come up on a lifted Toyota truck cruising along at 65-70. I'm slowing down so I can pace him when he pulls to the right lane. I pass, and he swerves back on my ass with his high beams on!
I try to get ahead, but of course there is traffic that I couldn't see because of the truck anyway. So now this guy is crowding my back bumper. My wife is already getting agitated, having read in the newspapers about people getting murdered in road rage incidents. So I pull to the right and let the dude pass, but not after giving the breaklights a quick test.

Unfortunately,something about me is that I have a natural tendancy to be an ******* . So I pull back behind the dude, and gave him some Hella high beam back at him. This prompted him to do a full on brake check making my wife scream. He is swerving back and forth block lanes, I slow down, he slows down. **** this. I'm in the autostick and drop it to 2 and launch by the guy on his left, he ishanging his head out his windowscreaming at us. The exit for Santa Nella came up and I pulled ahead for it. After that it would have ben miles and miles of nothing. He pulled off after me and got his front bumper nearly touching the glass of our hatch when we got to the stop at the end of the ramp. I peeled over into the Shell station ready to get my ass kicked. I parked in the middle between the pumps, so our car would be on camera and I could get out quickly. Sure enough, this guy pulls around to come in front of me and start in on me. I imagine that this guy could be intimidating to some people, he was inked on his forearms, had a shaved head and one of those billy goat goatees that Nu-Metal bass players all have. He got out of his truck, and I stand a good 8 inches taller then the guy, and probably 100 pounds over him, I can be a bit intimidating myself at 6'6" and 280. Meanwhile my wife is on the phone to 911 thinking that there is going to be a fight.

So the result of our road rage? I explained that I couldn't see through his thruck, but I had been a dick with the brakelights and the highbeams. He actually walked over and apologized to my wife for scaring her. Then I got to sleep on the couch that night. Drive kinder, it just works better.[/quote]

[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 05-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Your ignoring everything else in my post. Like....

Actually, I am not.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Don't get me wrong here, I am a courteous driver, I do not lane hog, and generally drive what we like to call around here "a polite 5 over"

Um, polite is moving to the right for faster traffic, not a speed. Slowing someone down because you are doing the limit is wasting gas. The gas of the other person. Any stop and speed back up driving wastes gas. Think about it. You can decrease the cost of a gallon of gasoline by being polite.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Just for starters "IF" it was an emergency I would think that the driver would have the good sense to have his warning flashers on.

I would hope so but I would not bet the farm.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Sorry , but we judge each other all day long, everyday, all the time, in every aspect of our lives.

Guilty.
However, I am not the judge, jury, and executioner. Does it really hurt that much to move over to the right hand lane ?
Ya know, when the wife and I go somewhere, we fight over who gets to drive, . Even she has been convinced that the left hand lane is for faster traffic. It almost took a divorce so.....there is still hope for you, .

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-23-2008).]

the 55 mile per hour speed limit DECIMATED our economy! It saved no more lives, in fact, it helped to create more problems on the road an inattentiveness increased. It made a token dent in oil consumption but the cost was FAR greater than the reward and it in no way solved the problem of WHY AREN'T WE DRILLING FOR MORE OIL!??!?!?!?!?!?!!?

The speed limit should not be lowered to 55, my 3.4/4t60 Fiero cannot choose a gear between about 53-58 mph so I do my best to avoid travel on roads with that speed limit...


But I have a question about the 'Left Lane for Passing Only' laws. This is something I have never understood. I usually (if I'm going more than 10 or so miles) will get directly into the left lane, quickly reach my cruising speed between 85-95 mph (depending on traffic, likelyhood of cops, and weather conditions), and stay there until I am 2-3 miles from my exit at which point I will begin slowing down and cautiously make my way into the right lane. I do this because I am comfortable at that speed, my car is very comfortable at that speed, and I feel that staying in the left lane is safer than the speed up-slow down-get over-pass this car-etc of the other lanes. If someone wants to go faster than I am (which is very, very rare) I will move over and let them pass, and if I come up on someone who is going slower than I would like to I will get a little closer to them than I normally would (not tailgating- I always leave big gaps, usually 5+ car lengths whenever possible) and give them a few minutes to let me pass and if they don't move or speed up I will put on my blinker for long enough I am sure than have seen and then I will pass on the right.

So the question is, am I violating the Left Lane law? My defensive driving video said "the left lane is not for speeders and should be used only to pass", but when I am maintaining 85-95mph I'm constantly passing everyone so should I be weaving in and out of the 3rd lane or is it okay to stay in the left lane?

Granted, I am already breaking one law by speeding, I am fully aware of that, but as I stated I feel that speed is safer than frequent lane changes, I'm just curious if I'll be hit with a double ticket if I ever get caught staying in the left lane.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-05-2008).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Guilty. However, I am not the judge, jury, and executioner. Does it really hurt that much to move over to the right hand lane ? Ya know, when the wife and I go somewhere, we fight over who gets to drive, . Even she has been convinced that the left hand lane is for faster traffic. It almost took a divorce so.....there is still hope for you, .

Uhhh, read again, I SAID I am not a lane hog............

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Uhhh, read again, I SAID I am not a lane hog............

I did read again. I will have to say that you have said nothing for me to believe that you are.
My apologies.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I did read again. I will have to say that you have said nothing for me to believe that you are. My apologies.

Not a problem Cliff

David

depends a lot on your car. My Magnum gets far better gas milage around 70. It has MDS which cuts 4 cylinders out at around 60-65. If I keep it at 55, MDS wont work except going downhill. Also at 55 overdrive will kick out on every hill. My corvette also gets best mileage around mileage around 70 too. Both have dash displays that shows your real time mileage. Even if you use the same amount of gas for say per hour, you get to your destination in 15-20% less time, so less gas used.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Doesn't take any mind reading to figure out somebody's attitude when they get out of their car size you up, smirk and physically attach. Not sure what the hell your problem is with me, I was not the aggressor, hell, I was not even driving!

Critical information about this physical attack has been missing from the story. I guess that's where details matter. I would say that up until that point, it's pretty subjective what you may think I have in mind when I get out of my car and look in your direction. Just like it's pretty subjective that you believe that I have a "problem" with you, even though my posts have been written in a light-hearted manner with plenty of smily emoticons to keep my intent fairly evident.

I do have a bit of a complaint that large people are charactarized (and not just by you) as either bullies or lazy dullards. I do have a bit of a problem with every Alpha Dawg TypeA1 HardOn male whenever I show up at an employer, when they are more then overjoyed to build themselves up by breaking a bigger man down. My choices to deal with this behavior is to A: ignore it, and reinforce the behavior. B: fight back, against the smaller individual, putting myself at jeopardy of loss of health or personal freedoms or C: remove myself from the situation, thereby depriving myself of the ability to make a decent living, and also reinfocing the behavior, but reducing my risk of incarceration severely.

So, If you called the cops on a guy just because he's bigger then you and he got out of a car and looked at you, Ihen I can see why he'd want to beat your ass. However, if he just gets out of his car, runs over and starts beating on your ass, I can see why you'd want to call the cops. It's details like that that are important to the story, not what size this guy is. Unless you are just trying to make your e-penis look larger, I don't really see what the point of what size this guy was is to your story.

I lived in CA (Central Valley) for 5 years, and have managed to escape back to normal-land (WA state). One of the very few good laws they came up with in CA was this:
"It is illegal to be passed on the right." First time I heard that, I thought that's weird, but then I thought about it, and it started to make sense.. You can't control the crazies that wanna drive 100+ thru crappy conditions and traffic, but you can control the law-abiding citizens that will stay to the right more to minimize the risk of the crazies..

Personally, I love the law, and the more I think about it, the more I like it. It defines well when you probably should get over (like when people are swerving to the right lane to get around you..).

just my 2c.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Doesn't take any mind reading to figure out somebody's attitude when they get out of their car size you up, smirk and physically attach.

Ewwww... is that what road rage has come to down there?

Guys are physically attaching themselves to each other on the side of the highway?

And they're smirking while they're doing it?

Yuck.

That's just so wrong.

Short people got, no reason
Short people, they got no reason
Short people, they got no reason to liiiive....

Randy Newman


Love you Hughie![/QUOTE]
I guees you have shown the long and the short of it Jeff ! As one of the few people on this board that have met you,You may be sarcastic sometimes,but you have a good heart !

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Ewwww... is that what road rage has come to down there?

Heh, actually this incident was over 20 years ago! long before road rage was the in thing, and yes, I misspelled something, as usual. Heh, I read your reply and thought WTF? and then had a good laugh! thanks

Last night (03:00hr) I was driving 70mph in the fast lane and quickly came-up on a large Ford or Lincoln SUV driving about 60-ish in the fast lane. In my mind I'm thinking, "You idiot, move that stupid gas guzzler over to the slow lane if you want to conserve gas." Did he move? No. He continued driving in the fast lane going 60-ish for many miles after I had to go around him. I could see others going around him in my rear view mirror.

As for the 55MPH talk, thats for continued revenue by the State when officers pulling you over. They know most can't resist going faster than 55 on a long streach of hwy.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: ...As for the 55MPH talk, thats for continued revenue by the State when officers pulling you over. They know most can't resist going faster than 55 on a long streach of hwy.

Exactly.

I'm sure the insurance companies don't mind, either.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Exactly. I'm sure the insurance companies don't mind, either.

Lets not forget those companies that profit from speeders who have to go attend $200+ driving schools to prevent a $300 ticket from appearing on your record. I'm sure some back-door lobbyist deals are made in Congress.


As for speeders; that includes motorbikes and Green cars. I've seen them pass me going over 70mph.

Yipeeee!
I finally get to "redline" my Fiero

The 55 MPH speed limit would have the same effect it had the last time. It would be ignored by almost everyone. Then the experts would come out and talk about how many lives are saved and how much fuel was saved when a short trip on a highway at 55 would show the stupidity of their statements.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: lol - ya ya. my vehicles have well worn horns....and high beam flashes.....and...when that fails, pass on right (ug...), and I will then pull in front of them and go even slower.... I have found the main reason people go slow in the fast lane - is because it is easy - there is no traffic in front of you. you can talk on the phone, read the paper, whatever. that - and some dont know any better.

When I lived in Illinois...they did pass one decent law. Slow drivers in the left lane can be ticketed after like 3 miles I believe . Never saw it happen but on I65 here I have been seeing a bunch of out of state idiots driving slow in the left lane.

When I was in college, I chose the 55mph issue as a subject for a speech or report. In the early 90's, almost every analysis I read was indicating the reduction in speed RANGE as the principal reason for the immediate reduction in fatalities.

While I could see national speed limits again, hopefully we will see better mpg cars instead.

I stay in the right lane except when Im passing someone, then move back. The exception is if there is nothing behind me in the fast lane, I may stay there until someone starts moving up on me...then I move over. Thats all just courtesy. In Ohio anyway, if a cop sees you blink your headlites to move someone over, you will get pulled over and given a ticket. Flashing your brites is illegal here period. You can also get a ticket for blowing your horn to move them over.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: In Ohio anyway, if a cop sees you blink your headlites to move someone over, you will get pulled over and given a ticket. Flashing your brites is illegal here period. You can also get a ticket for blowing your horn to move them over.

Its called aggressive driving down here and apparently its also against the law to ****ing yell in your own car