Thinking of buying a new truck, GM made me mad, they don't offer a manual tranny in there full size trucks anymore, so i am looking at a dodge. Anyone own one? How do you like it?

Yeppers, On my second one now. Absolutely love it. Dependable, pulls like a locomotive and gets great fuel mileage. If and when I buy another, Cummins powered will be my first consideration.
Edited to add, you were asking about 07 or 08s I assume, mine is an 02. Not sure what they're offering today.
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Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-05-2008).]

i am looking at an 07 3500 with the 6.7 turbo deisel

My buddy got a monster dodge ram with the cummins turbo diesel. that thing is amazingly stout. you'd never notice you are hauling a trailer. its quite. its smooth. its STONG.

Madess,

I'm on my second Dodge Cummins. I bought the Cummins not the Dodge body, it just came with it. I've had an 02 and now I have a 95 12 valve. I love it. You can make stupid power free or very cheap. If you want 6.7 info go to www.dieseltruckresource.com they are the best Cummins site. At the home page just click on forums, then 3rd Gen 6.7. More info than you need.

Fred

My father has two Ford 650's with the Cummins 5.9L and Allison auto, overall they are a great combo. The only downside is there are very few Ford dealers that have quanified mechanich

Speaking about the Dodge Cummins I have always heard that folks like the older 12 valves better. Nothing wrong with the 24 valves but just preference.

I used to sell Dodge and the newer diesles were AMAZING! we had a Plow.... king maybe? Plw something anyways with a cummins in it I loved that truck I mean it was a beast! I hope you decide to get it cause it's really nice and I don't think you will regret it!

my dad has one, dont let the turbo kick in of you plan on stopping, because it wont. lol he's got an auto, hasnt had many problems with it. nothing big or that wasnt fixed by warrenty anyway..

quote Originally posted by Fredbearstalksme: Madess, I'm on my second Dodge Cummins. I bought the Cummins not the Dodge body, it just came with it. I've had an 02 and now I have a 95 12 valve. I love it. You can make stupid power free or very cheap. If you want 6.7 info go to www.dieseltruckresource.com they are the best Cummins site. At the home page just click on forums, then 3rd Gen 6.7. More info than you need. Fred

My first was a 12 valve version, this one is a 24, my personal preference is my 24 valve, it would out pull my 12 valve. Both are great motors though. Have a friend that threw a Banks set up on his, damn thing refuses to run out of power. I'm not ready to do that but what the heck, it's just money.

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-05-2008).]

"My first was a 12 valve version, this one is a 24, my personal preference is my 24 valve, it would out pull my 12 valve. Both are great motors though. Have a friend that threw a Banks set up on his, damn thing refuses to run out of power. I'm not ready to do that but what the heck, it's just money."


Yes the 12 valves are dogs stock. You have to mod them to wake em up, which is so easy. The free things are sliding the fuel plate full forward, adjusting the AFC for more fuel down low, and a small valve to wastegate the turbo where you want(mine 36lbs). The best idea is to buy a new plate, either a 100 or 10 plate. The free option is to grind your plate to a 100 or 10 profile( what I did). Those things will easily give you 130+ horsepower or much more. It depends on the year and tranny of the truck. The best are 96-98 manuals as they have the 215hp pumps which will put out stupid hp and fuel with the above mentioned mods. 96-98 auto 180 pump, 94-95 manual 175 pump. 94-95 auto 160 pump-> what I have.
Mine is lightly modified, spent $100 on 215 injectors + free mods and I have doubled my hp. I did have to buy a new tranny and better Trq converter.

The 24 valve Cummins(98-02) have a bad habit, the lift pump dies and then the low fuel pressure kills the injector pump. The Inj pump cost about $1100. Also you have to pay alot for upgrades. No free stuff. All electronic.

To each their own.

Fred

[This message has been edited by Fredbearstalksme (edited 02-05-2008).]

Hello, we have two duallys with the Cummins and yes we had to replace the lift pump as said before. That said There simply the BEST diesel engine out there. Our 04 has the six speed manual its tough to live with in town but for hauling on the road none better. Thanks Norm

the one I am looking at is a 6 speed. they have already dropped the price 10k, but I am going to try to get them to go lower.

on a side note, does anyone run Bio deisel in theirs?

My hired hand has a 24 valve Cummins in his 3/4T Dodge and a neighbor just bought a new Dodge with the Cummins about 2 months ago. Just for grins, a third neighbor with an '05 Chevy Duramax challenged them to a race.

Duramax, no contest.

I know there are lots of loyal Cummins owners, heck, I'M a loyal Cummins owner (with three 855 Cummins engines), but the Duramax makes more power stock, can be modded to make more power than the Cummins, has a stronger automatic transmission, and is a whole lot quieter (although Dodge has done better with that the last two years).

If you need to pull a trailer, you'll like the Cummins, they're good motors.

John Stricker

Mmmmm Diesel trucks, there is a guy i my home town that has a 1004 rwhp chev. It run's in the 9's. I said it couldn't be done but i see it at the track all the time. Google... Nasty girl truck and read about it and check out the videos etc.. http://www.youtube.com/watc...NSLY&feature=related

i'm not an expert but a friend of mine has an 2000-2002 (somewhere around there) 6-speed cummins dodge with crazy engine/turbo mods on it. had it dynoed-put somewhere in the area of 900-1000 hp to the rear wheels, torque was off the friggin chart (insanely high). needless to say the motor is not with us anymore. he does various truck pulls at fairs and stuff and grenaded the motor last summer. he says he 'plans' on building another but i don't think his wife will allow it...lol.

------------------
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ
2000 Chevrolet Blazer ZR2

" I guess I've learned that there's more to life than racing, but not much more."
-Paul Menard

Better question is for those who have owned both Cummins and other diesels, every answar will be the same it seems. The others egines are not bad, some will throw in a few that suck, as there are some out the that do (Ford 6.3 anyone?) Cummings, not one bad thing will be said about that engine, those guys have thier act together when it come to diesels.

[This message has been edited by OH10fiero (edited 02-07-2008).]

There is no "G" in Cummins.

Fred

quote Originally posted by Fredbearstalksme: To each their own. Fred

Fred,
I was talking about Cummins motors in stock form, not modified. I couldn't tell you which is a better motor to build on. That my friend, is out of my financial and technical capability. Though I have considered a Bank Six Gun Kit, I can't put money into Fieros and a Hot Rod Truck.
Besides that, I use my Commins Dodge to pull my 36 foot gooseneck car hauler and quite frankly, can't afford to play around with it. That truck has almost paid for itself in hauling cars. As I said earlier, it pulls like a locomotive and has never let me down..
------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-08-2008).]

The one thing I think is important to note is that 95% of the diesel truck owners, be they GM, Dodge, or Ford, are all VERY happy with them and VERY loyal to them. I think the main reason is they are getting the diesel torque and durability that the heavy truck industry has had for a long time now finally available to the people that work their light duty trucks like work trucks and compared to the gas models, there is no comparison to any of the modern diesels. I even know people that swear by the 6.5 Turbo and 6.2 GM diesels. I have one in my service truck with over 500,000 miles, but it's certainly no powerhouse.

Right now, the highest STOCK HP (as of the '07 model years, not sure about '08) is the Duramax. It also is the engine that can be turned up for more HP the easiest, from my understanding, and maintain reliablity. It's quiet, smooth, and starts well in cold weather. The Dodge is the most popular and, IMHO, for a good reason. Cummins knows diesels and they know how to build them to last. The achille's heel of the Dodge truck is the manual transmission. I have a friend with an independent repair shop and he keeps ONE transmission in stock, on the shelf. The Dodge 5 speed. Maybe the 6 speed is stronger, I don't know, but the 5 speed is not durable. He changes 5 or 6 every summer out of trucks pulling campers. The Dodge, although quieter than they used to be, is still the noisiest of the bunch. While my neighbors had a lot of service issues with the 6.0L, most were in love with their older Ford (built by International) diesels and that's why most of them went back to Ford. Their drivetrains seem to be very reliable. They are also quiet and smooth and from what I've heard, get very, very good fuel mileage, better than Dodge or GM.

You pays your money and you makes your choices.

The only real complaints I've heard are from the owners of Ford 6.0L Powerstrokes. Many, many, many service issues with these engines and I know of three people locally that normally trade every 7-10 years with '03 and '04 models that finally just gave up on them. One went to a Duramax, the other two back to new Fords.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Fred, I was talking about Cummins motors in stock form, not modified. I couldn't tell you which is a better motor to build on. That my friend, is out of my financial and technical capability. Though I have considered a Bank Six Gun Kit, I can't put money into Fieros and a Hot Rod Truck. Besides that, I use my Commins Dodge to pul my 36 foot gooseneck car hauler and quite frankly, can't afford to play around with it. That truck has alomost paid for itself in hauling cars. As I said earlier, it pulls like a locomotive and has never let me down..

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Right now, the highest STOCK HP (as of the '07 model years, not sure about '08) is the Duramax. It also is the engine that can be turned up for more HP the easiest, from my understanding, and maintain reliablity. . . . . . The Dodge 5 speed. Maybe the 6 speed is stronger, I don't know, but the 5 speed is not durable.

While I agree with most of what you have said, you can't juice up an engine any easier than the 12v Cummins. Bang for the buck is like WAY out there. Unfortunately that was the 1st gen Dodge. My 24V is WAY easy also. Just costs more than juicing up the 12v

If you are strictly talking brand new diesel engines, The chevy MAY be easy, but I'd put some serious investigating before I'd make the claim it is THE easiest. As with any engine, the more emissions and other garbage the government regulated to be put on the trucks, the more difficult to mod. Nothing is fool-proof though.

Now, one thing can be said about the newer trucks than the 1st/2nd gen trucks is their reliable HP when juiced up is higher than previous generations. Mine is pretty much stuck at 500hp/1000ft*lbs as being my top end without going to the "non-streatable" side. But, even 500hp pushes 8000+lbs down the road quite nicely. That's where I am and I love it. I've had my truck for 6 years now.

Now, as for the Dodge NV4500 (dodge 5 speed) yes, it has one specific flaw, but it is VERY durable. the problem with it is that the 5th gear nut keeps backing off. Nothing that needs a NEW tranny, just needs a mechanic with the right tools. I've fixed quite a few of them, myself. Both the NV4500 and NV5600 (5speed and 6speed) are extremely durable and hold the hp you put to them. They break shafts before they break internals.

There you have it. The truth about dodge from a person that can black out a 4 lane highway when not on the boost.

[This message has been edited by BOILERMAKER (edited 02-08-2008).]

quote Originally posted by BOILERMAKER: Now, as for the Dodge NV4500 (dodge 5 speed) yes, it has one specific flaw, but it is VERY durable. the problem with it is that the 5th gear nut keeps backing off. Nothing that needs a NEW tranny, just needs a mechanic with the right tools. I've fixed quite a few of them, myself. Both the NV4500 and NV5600 (5speed and 6speed) are extremely durable and hold the hp you put to them. They break shafts before they break internals. There you have it. The truth about dodge from a person that can black out a 4 lane highway when not on the boost.

I have been told by other Dodge/Cummins owners about that nut backing off on the five speed trannies. Haven't heard anything bad about the six speed manuals. I'm sure that eventually, something will pop up. It's designed and built by man, nothing is perfect. Thanks for the info.

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-08-2008).]

How about fuel mileage on the Cummins?Diesel costs so much more than gas at this point,there is cause for people to stop and think .Is it practical to purchase a gas powered or diesel?

Gas milage? I am getting around 18 MPG in the city, with a trailer with it drops down on average to about 15 MPG on the highway traveling around 70 -75 MPH I average 22-24 MPG w/ trailer loaded i looking at 19 MPG
I have a '05 3500 (non Duallie). With a 35 gallon tank it took me a $110@ 3.29/gal to fill up so I average about 420 - 440 per tank that is good the way I drive.

02 Dodge Cummins, Six Speed, 3/4 ton. Highway without the trailer, 23 - 24 mpg, with the trailer, 15 - 17 mpg depending on how much air I'm pushing. Speed is determined by the speed limit but normally about 5 over. I love my Cummins!!!!

Edited to add, mine is two wheel drive, I don't have any use for 4WD. I don't four wheel and if the roads are that bad, I don't go.
------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-08-2008).]

Just curious when you guys trailer..............what do you weigh, total? I wanted to know what was on my trailer axles to make sure I had enough tire on there and weighed my truck and trailer today. '99 Chev Silverado with 6.0L gas motor, 4L80E, 36' enclosed gooseneck set up for race cars (which means compressor, 5.0KW Generator, toolboxes, extra set of tires, two winches, etc., etc.) and the Roadster in the trailer loaded just like I pull it down the road. 8,820# on the trailer axles, 17,000# GVW (so that's 8,180# truck weight, 20# under the sticker GVW IIRC). I pull the trailer good power wise, but my fuel economy is, well, not so good. Highly variable on the wind conditions and it helps if I drop the tongue a little below level, but I usually run it level. (normally I get about 13-15 mpg empty, but lucky to make 8 with the trailer and a car in it).

I know, I need a diesel, but I spend a lot more time with this truck without a trailer than with, and I really don't care for a diesel as a daily driver (although that might change).

John Stricker

PS: That's not loading the tires or axles at all. 7.50-16 12 ply at 80psi rated for 2755# each or a total or 11,020 total, so I'm 2,200# under rating (20%). The axles are tandem 7,500# axles and the wheels are rated to 3,500# each.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: 02 Dodge Cummins, Six Speed, 3/4 ton. Highway without the trailer, 23 - 24 mpg, with the trailer, 15 - 17 mpg depending on how much air I'm pushing. Speed is determined by the speed limit but normally about 5 over. I love my Cummins!!!! Edited to add, mine is two wheel drive, I don't have any use for 4WD. I don't four wheel and if the roads are that bad, I don't go.

John,
The weights I haul on my trailer vary significantly but, in all honestly, the mileage I achieve is at worst about 15 to 16 mpg. at 70+mph. It's never been below that. Where I saw a huge difference is between the carhauler (flatbed) and the enclosed trailer. I know you know this but I'll still say it, weight isn't nearly as big of a factor as pushing air. The enclosed trailer with the full nose and full profile always lowered those numbers by a couple of mpg. Hauling mostly Fieros, I never get close to my weight limits and don't push near as much air with the carhauler over the enclosed trailer. Probably the biggest (weight) load I've hauled was a load of alfalfa hay I brought back to KY from KS. As I remember, I had about 15,000 lbs on but the load was only 4 tiers high so I wasn't pushing much air with it. That trip I got about 15 mpg IIRC.

I don't really use mine as a daily driver, it gets used to pull loads. If I didn't pull those loads, I would probably not own a diesel. Gas is cheaper most of the time. I'm not really sure what my truck and trailer weigh, in that I have never had the trailer down on the axles (fully loaded), I'm not really sure. I'll have to check my operator manual to see exactly what it all weighs.

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-11-2008).]

That's what I was wondering. My trailer isn't as long as yours, but let's say you get 15 mpg using your truck and I get 8 with mine, pulling the same load both weight and moving the air. I will have to say that I was pretty close guessing what I had on the axles (I guessed 7,500#, my hired hand guessed 7,000#) I never thought the entire load would be anywhere near 17,000#. I thought more along the lines of 14,000. You're right to an extent that wind pulls as hard as weight, but weight plays a big factor also, especially in hills when trying to maintain a steady speed. Going through the Flint Hills there west of Salina can suck even a 500 hp semi down when loaded to 80,000#.

Gasoline here right now is 2.86 and diesel is 3.35. It costs me 36 cents per mile in fuel and you 22 cents per mile in just fuel costs. Good bet your Cummins will outlast my 6.0L gas motor as well in miles before overhaul. I'm fairly sure my automatic is probably costing me at least 1 or 2 mpg over a manual, but since I don't tow all that much with it, that's a tradeoff I'll make for now. Your direct fuel costs are about 65% less than mine are, as near as I can figure. I normally tow at speeds you mentioned, 70-75 on the interstates, but usually keep it under 70 on the regular highways.

I tried to keep track last year and I pulled the trailer about 5000 miles total to shows, races, and just general usage for other things. So it cost me an extra $6-700 in fuel to run the gas motor, even at current fuel prices.

My thinking was always that if I could keep the gas motor and not have it cost me more than an extra $1,500/year, it would probably be worth it for the other factors like daily driving in winter, no fuel issues as far as gelling or getting bad fuel, and those kind of things, but it sounds like I'm not going to have to do too much more towing and a diesel would be a better option for me. I really don't want to go that way, but that's why I said in the previous post that might change.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by blackrams: John, The weights I haul on my trailer vary significantly but, in all honestly, the mileage I achieve is at worst about 15 to 16 mpg. at 70+mph. It's never been below that. Where I saw a huge difference is between the carhauler (flatbed) and the enclosed trailer. I know you know this but I'll still say it, weight isn't nearly as big of a factor as pushing air. The enclosed trailer with the full nose and full profile always lowered those numbers by a couple of mpg. Hauling mostly Fieros, I never get close to my weight limits and don't push near as much air with the carhauler over the enclosed trailer. Probably the biggest (weight) load I've hauled was a load of alfalfa hay I brought back to KY from KS. As I remember, I had about 15,000 lbs on but the load was only 4 tiers high so I wasn't pushing much air with it. That trip I got about 15 mpg IIRC. I don't really use mine as a daily driver, it gets used to pull loads. If I didn't pull those loads, I would probably not own a diesel. Gas is cheaper most of the time. I'm not really sure what my truck and trailer weigh, in that I have never had the trailer down on the axles (fully loaded), I'm not really sure. I'll have to check my operator manual to see exactly what it all weighs.

John,
I didn't mean to make light of the weight issue, yes, weight can be a major factor but, I'm not always climbing hills. I am always pushing air. Therefore, I consider the air push issue more significant than weight in what I do. I agree that hills can pull you down to lower gears and thusly affecting the mileage and speed issues.

I'd actually like to hook up to your trailer some time just to see and feel how it pulls and how my truck would pull it. I can't discuss your daily driving issues in diesel versus gas but, I can assure you that you will be pleased with the results of pulling your trailer with a diesel, more specifically, a Cummins.

BTW, just cause mine is longer than yours............. Nah, never mind.

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-12-2008).]

i have had several Cummins. THEY ARE THE BEST. I personally like the 12 valve due to the cheap mods and i can work on it with out a $10,000 computer to tell me that a sensor is bad. i have driven and pulled trailers with the new 6.7L with both the auto and the manual trannys. the motor is strong but it is kind of a dog at higher RPMs due to the torque curve being lower (2000 RPM). the VG turbo really helps the truck keep boost at all levels of the RPM range but doesnt produce quite enough power when pulling the heavy trailers in the mountins. the only thing that i didnt like about the manual tranny is that the shift pattern is REALLY TIGHT. took along time to get used to and not miss gears. as with any new engine (first year being out) im sure there are going to be issues that will need to be addressed. if you get the first gen 24 Valve then i would HIGHLY recommend getting the aftermarket lift pump (FASS is the best). i have modified SEVERAL cummins from the first gen 12 valves to the 07 common rails. one of the trucks i just got done building for a friend was a 98 12 valve that was close to 900 HP and 1500 ft/lbs torque and on the highway would still get 22+ MPG. any route you go will be a good choice. good luck and keep us posted. if you have any questions about the 5.9Ls let me know. im still in the process of getting all my info together on the 6.7Ls so i can start modding them.

quote Originally posted by wriott: i have had several Cummins. THEY ARE THE BEST.

I'm a Cummins man. I have a whole bunch of them in a lot of different vehicles and trucks. I have GM Diesels. I have Detroit diesels. My hired hand has a 24V Cummins and a Ford Diesel. I've worked on all of them. I can categorically tell you that the old Dodge Cummins Diesels are not "THE BEST" in every situation. In some, yes. In others, No. You need to keep a more open mind when discussing things like this. There is no "best" for every situation, never has been, never will be, and if you've never had any of the others (Duramax, various Ford/Navistar, etc.) you really can't say with any certainty that the Cummins is the best because you have nothing to compare it to.

No disrespect intended, it's just one of my pet peeves when somebody claims that any one thing is "THE BEST".

It's not that big a trick anymore to make 900HP out of the Duramax either. For a lot of years my guy that does my pump and injector work had available but almost never sold any of the programmers or power boosting kits for the Cummins engines because they were so much stronger than the GM 6.5T or the Ford/Navistar, nobody wanted them. Then when the Duramax came out in '01, by '02 he couldn't keep the stuff on the shelves because a stock Duramax made the Cummins look sick (at that time). Like it or not, strap them on the dyno, and as of last model year the Duramax beat the rest, hands down.

Oct '07 Truckin' Magazine did a comparison test of the '07 3/4T Dodge, Ford, and Chevy with Dyno pulls on each, as well as performance tests.

Chevy 6.6L Duramax, 303.37 HP, 507.33 ft lbs Torque at the wheels, 0-60 mph w/trailer 14.65 seconds
Dodge 6.7L Cummins, 271.38 HP, 477.21 ft lbs Torque at the wheels, 0-60 w/trailer 16.69 seconds
Ford 6.4L Navistar PowerStroke, 283.35 HP, 494.51 Torque at the wheels, 0-60 w/trailer 16.98 seconds

The Duramax was 2 full seconds quicker to 60 mph with a trailer and it makes it's torque at a lower rpm than either of the other two meaning it has a higher torque rise and is a good indication of how it will pull in the mountains and hills. In fact, in nearly every performance comparison, the Dodge came in second of the three. Nothing came close to the Duramax.

I understand your loyalty, you've been treated right by your Dodge so that means a lot, and I don't think they're a bad motor, but that doesn't make it "THE BEST" in all situations.

John Stricker

john, i 100% agree with you. nothing for me to argue with. all of the diesels out there have their ups and downs. the powerstokes that i have had; all run great at highway speeds. the 7.3L was gutless at low RPMs and the auto trannys didnt hold up the best, some did but most didnt (>100,000 miles). the 6.0L was better at making power at the low end and also the high end of the RPM range. i was just never inpressed with how they pulled the trailers in the mountins. the duramax is a good all around engine, not as powerful as the cummins at the low RPM range nor like the powerstroke at the higher RPM range. the duramax in my experince get the best milage pulling the trailers and is very reliable with the best tranny (allison) that is offerd by the big three IMO. the cummins i have found is the better of the three for pure lugging power and pull the best in the mountins. the trailers that i usually pull are gooseneck horse trailers that i hate to say are WAY tooooo heavy for the 1 ton pickups. trailer alone fully loaded weighs 23,000 lbs. i know that i am way overloaded most of the time. i have found out that no matter what the numbers may say the only real test is to see how any truck will perform is to drive it how you are going to be using it, wether it be driving in the city of pulling a trailer that is way toooo heavy and pick the one that does the best for you.

EDIT: just wanted to add... i have not had a chance to hook my trailer to any of the new models, 6.4L powerstoke, 6.6L duramax or the 6.7L cummins so i cant offer any opinions on how they pull a trailer.

[This message has been edited by wriott (edited 02-13-2008).]

quote Originally posted by wriott: the powerstokes that i have had; all run great at highway speeds. the 7.3L was gutless at low RPMs and the auto trannys didnt hold up the best, some did but most didnt (>100,000 miles). the 6.0L was better at making power at the low end and also the high end of the RPM range. i was just never inpressed with how they pulled the trailers in the mountins.

Well, KS doesn't have many mountains but otherwise, I'm right with you on the Fords. The did real well if you got it spun up and spooled up, but don't get on the back side of the torque curve or you'll never get back on the other side again.

quote Originally posted by wriott: the duramax is a good all around engine, not as powerful as the cummins at the low RPM range nor like the powerstroke at the higher RPM range. the duramax in my experince get the best milage pulling the trailers and is very reliable with the best tranny (allison) that is offerd by the big three IMO.

Boy, I have to disagree with you there. The Duramax builds so much torque down low it's incredible. I think max torque is something around 2200 rpm, and that's just the way it pulls. I wonder how the Duramax you drove was geared? That makes a huge difference in the diesels. I also agree that right now, the Allison 6 speed is the best transmission for reliablity over the long run of ANY of them, manual or auto, at least IMO. You do lose some mileage with them, though, and they are very, very heavy.

quote Originally posted by wriott: the cummins i have found is the better of the three for pure lugging power and pull the best in the mountins. the trailers that i usually pull are gooseneck horse trailers that i hate to say are WAY tooooo heavy for the 1 ton pickups. trailer alone fully loaded weighs 23,000 lbs. i know that i am way overloaded most of the time. i have found out that no matter what the numbers may say the only real test is to see how any truck will perform is to drive it how you are going to be using it, wether it be driving in the city of pulling a trailer that is way toooo heavy and pick the one that does the best for you.

23,000 pound horse trailer???? What kind of horses, the whole Budweiser Clydesdale team?? Actually, I know what you're talking about, the horse people might have 2 or 3 horses and take everything in the barn with them, and the trailers are heavy and well equipped. Seriously, though, it sounds like you need a medium duty truck with a larger diesel in it to me. You're right, you're WAY over loaded for a one ton.

quote Originally posted by wriott: EDIT: just wanted to add... i have not had a chance to hook my trailer to any of the new models, 6.4L powerstoke, 6.6L duramax or the 6.7L cummins so i cant offer any opinions on how they pull a trailer.

I have not driven the new Ford with the twin turbo. I hear good things about it's power and the way it drives, but I'm pretty leery of it with the reliability problems they had with the previous generation engines. I did drive a new Dodge hooked to a 27' stock trailer in a 1T with about 12,000 pounds of cattle in it. It handled the load fine, but I didn't try to break any speed records since it was a neighbor's new truck. I was unimpressed with it's acceleration, but it was also a dually and they simply don't move out like a single wheel truck does. The Duramax, IMHO, is now proven, I've been on the "wait and see" side of them since they came out until a couple of years or so ago. They haven't had a lot of problems, but they had a few teething problems at the start. One neighbor has one that is (I think) an '05 with the Allison and he has about 110,000 miles on it. It will definitely outpull the new Dodge from a standing start but it's not a dually either.

It's very hard to compare apples to apples with these trucks because the loads, use, and equipment on them varies so much. The one thing Dodge has a LONG way to go on, IMHO, is the comfort and design of the cab. It's at least a generation behind the GM and Ford as far as design and while the new Dodge's are a lot quieter than the old ones, they're still the noisiest diesel truck out there.

None of them are Bad Trucks (or bad choices) and it all comes down to what one person likes over another AND if you have a good local dealer if you're buying new. Especially with the Dodge since now, if I'm not mistaken, they have a lifetime powertrain warranty on their trucks (at least the 1/2 and 3/4T, don't know about the tonners) so that means any problems will have to go back to a dealer. It's a good warranty though, and worth some extra money IMHO. GM has the next best powertrain warranty with 5 years 100K miles and Ford still has the 5 year 60K mile warranty. I expect Ford to change that in the near future as for the price, they really should have a better powertrain warranty.

The only other thing is of the three that the magazine tested, I was surprised to see the Chevy actually the cheapest (although "cheapest" with these is a relative term) of them all. Quite a bit cheaper in fact. $2,000 less than the Dodge and almost $5,000 cheaper than the Ford.

John Stricker