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Internet etiquette? by blackrams
Started on: 12-27-2007 02:24 PM
Replies: 11
Last post by: rogergarrison on 12-28-2007 04:30 PM
blackrams
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Report this Post12-27-2007 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
In-flight Internet raises etiquette concerns
Phone calls, expletive-laden chats, pornography open up ‘ticklish area’

updated 11:52 a.m. ET, Wed., Dec. 26, 2007
NEW YORK - Seat 17D is yapping endlessly on an Internet phone call. Seat 16F is flaming Seat 16D with expletive-laden chats. Seat 16E is too busy surfing pornography sites to care. Seat 17C just wants to sleep.

Welcome to the promise of the Internet at 33,000 feet — and the questions of etiquette, openness and free speech that airlines and service providers will have to grapple with as they bring Internet access to the skies in the coming months.

"This gets into a ticklish area," said Vint Cerf, one of the Internet's chief inventors and generally a critic of network restrictions. "Airlines have to be sensitive to the fact that customers are (seated) close together and may be able to see each other's PC screens. More to the point, young people are often aboard the plane."

Technology providers and airlines are already making decisions. Some will block services like Internet phone calls altogether while others will put limits and install filters on content. And traffic management tools that are frowned upon on terra firma could be commonplace in the air.

Panasonic Avionics Corp., a Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. unit testing airborne services on Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd., is designing its high-speed Internet services to block sites on "an objectionable list," including **** and violence, said David Bruner, executive director for corporate sales and marketing.

He said airlines based in more restrictive countries could choose to expand the list.

The company also is recommending that airlines permit Internet-based phone calls only on handsets with wireless Wi-Fi capabilities — the technology delivering access within the passenger cabin. Bruner said the company believes Wi-Fi handsets use less bandwidth than telephone software that runs on laptops.

Airlines, he said, also could block incoming calls — and the annoying ring tones they produce — or designate periods of quiet time.

OnAir, which has European certification for airborne cellular services, plans to give airlines similar choices, Chief Executive Benoit Debains said. Although some airlines are concerned about noise, Debains said, enabling voice would generate more revenue than data-only services.

Air France, which plans to start allowing cellular calls through OnAir within months, said it would see how people use such services before crafting rules.

"Are you going to reach your wife to tell her what you did the entire day or just tell her, 'Can you pick me up at the airport?'" Air France spokeswoman Marina Tymen said, adding that passengers might tell the airline that data services fulfill all their needs.

U.S. airlines are largely taking the opposite approach.

With possible exceptions for crew and federal air marshals, flights on AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and Alaska Air Group Inc.'s Alaska Airlines won't have access to Internet-based phone services like eBay Inc.'s Skype.

Discount startup Virgin America is also considering a ban.

"An airborne environment is a confined environment," said Charles Ogilvie, Virgin's director of in-flight entertainment and partnerships. "You don't want 22B yapping away or playing on a boom box."

Airlines have offered in-flight phone services before, but their high costs have limited their popularity. By contrast, Internet phone calls are free or cheap, particularly for passengers already paying for in-flight access to check e-mail or surf Web sites.

Meanwhile, American, Alaska and Virgin have no plans to filter sites based on their content. At most, an airline may manage traffic and delay large downloads, or in Virgin's case give passengers the option of enabling controls for their kids.

"We think decency and good sense and normal behavior" will prevail, said Jack Blumenstein, chief executive of Aircell LLC, which is launching service on some American and Virgin flights in 2008.

Alaska, which plans to start offering service on some flights in the spring, said the same guidelines apply whether a passenger is flipping through a magazine, watching a DVD on a laptop or surfing the Web.

"Occasionally we do have conversations with customers about content," Alaska spokeswoman Amanda Tobin Bielawski said.

In many ways, airlines are facing issues similar to those encountered by Wi-Fi networks on the ground — at airports, coffee shops and other public places.

Glenn Fleishman, editor of the Wi-Fi Networking News site, said operators of public networks generally do not filter because users are conscious that others can see what they surf. A coffee shop employee might occasionally ask a customer to leave, Fleishman said, "but those stories tend to be pretty far between."

Airplanes, however, are different because customers are in closer quarters and are more likely to include kids.

Allowing pornography could subject an airline to harassment complaints much like an employer that refuses to clamp down, said John Palfrey, a Harvard Law School professor.

"I think they have a right to (filter), but I come up short of saying they have the responsibility," Palfrey said. "I'd rather have the responsibility in the hands of passengers and require them to be accountable for what they do on laptops and airplanes."

Airborne Internet activities — such as hacking and piracy — could raise new questions about which country's laws apply.

The in-flight services also could exacerbate long-standing grievances.

What if the passenger in front of you wants to recline, making it difficult to surf comfortably on your laptop? What if you're finishing a crucial e-mail on deadline and an adjacent passenger needs to leave for the bathroom? What if the person next to you keeps peering over while you're trying to review a confidential Web site?

Steve Jones, a University of Illinois at Chicago professor who specializes in Internet studies, said passengers and flight crews would need to undergo "the kinds of learning the ropes and learning the etiquette anytime we put new technology in new settings."

Just as most people have come to set boundaries for cell phone use in public settings, he said, "we will develop social norms for using the Internet in flight."
________________________________________________________________________________

I'm thinking that to exercise courtesy to fellow passengers that might have viewing access to your screen might be a "good thing".

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

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Report this Post12-27-2007 04:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
Well im unsure, but given the total lack of personal responsibility and the "the world revolves around me" attitude displayed by most people now, I doubt people will be policing themselves, so have at it.
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Formula88
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Report this Post12-27-2007 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
I don't see why this is an issue. What if someone is reading their copy of Gigantic Jugs on the plane? If no one cares or if the attendant would ask them to put it away, why should the material being on a laptop be any different.

Loud or profane language can be left up to their discretion, but any technology use shouldn't matter. (why is shouting into a cellphone any different than shouting across the room? - treat them both the same, tell them to shut it)

I can see blocking **** sites just from a corporate stance, but other than that, I don't see the big deal.
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blackrams
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Report this Post12-27-2007 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
I don't see why this is an issue. What if someone is reading their copy of Gigantic Jugs on the plane? If no one cares or if the attendant would ask them to put it away, why should the material being on a laptop be any different.
Loud or profane language can be left up to their discretion, but any technology use shouldn't matter. (why is shouting into a cellphone any different than shouting across the room? - treat them both the same, tell them to shut it)
I can see blocking **** sites just from a corporate stance, but other than that, I don't see the big deal.


Actually, I tend to agree with your stated position. But, the key word you used was "if". If, I'm reading Gigantic Jugs and if you are offended, then who is right? Same thing with laptops. I personally don't care if you're viewing Pron but I really don't want for someone that's sitting next to you also have to view it if that offends them. It's one of those "my rights only reach to where your rights begin" things. Now, if i happen to be one of tose folks that really don't care what others do or don't want to see, there is where we have the problem. We happen to be discussing what is normally construed to be less that customarily acceptable behavior in a public forum in some if not most American communities. Now, put the same issues out on an international airline with all the different cultural values. I'm glad I don't have to be the one making this call.

How'd you like to be a muslim riding on Saudi Airlines with a plane load of American GIs coming home. They have different cultural values than most Americans or westerners. Would make for an interesting flight.

Edited to rephrase what I was trying to say.
------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-27-2007).]

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Formula88
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Report this Post12-27-2007 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:


Actually, I tend to agree with your stated position. But, the key word you used was "if". If, I'm reading Gigantic Jugs and if you are offended, then who is right? Same thing with laptops. I personally don't care if you're viewing Pron but I really don't want for someone that's sitting next to you also have to view it if that offends them. It's one of those "my rights only reach to where your rights begin" things. Now, if i happen to be one of tose folks that really don't care what others do or don't want to see, there is where we have the problem. We happen to be discussing what is normally construed to be less that customarily acceptable behavior in a public forum in some if not most American communities. Now, put the same issues out on an international airline with all the different cultural values. I'm glad I don't have to be the one making this call.

How'd you like to be a muslim riding on Saudi Airlines with a plane load of American GIs coming home. They have different cultural values than most Americans or westerners. Would make for an interesting flight.

Edited to rephrase what I was trying to say.


Yes, but do they already have a policy against magazines? Why would viewing it on a laptop be any different?

My point isn't that people should be able to look at **** on the plane. I don't think they will be, because you don't hear about many problems with people thumbing through spank magazines, etc. And in the few cases where someone is viewing inappropriate material - either on a laptop or paperback, you just ask them to put it away.

 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

How'd you like to be a muslim riding on Saudi Airlines with a plane load of American GIs coming home. They have different cultural values than most Americans or westerners. Would make for an interesting flight.


While I may catch hell for this, I don't give a green goddam about how a Muslim might feel - anywhere, at any time.
They riot and call for blood and maim and kill over teddy bear names.
They murder their own family members for "honor" if a girl is seen with a man who isn't her husband or relative.
The entire freaking world walks on egg shells trying not to offend Muslims, less they riot and kill more people. Screw 'em.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-27-2007).]

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blackrams
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Report this Post12-27-2007 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
Yes, but do they already have a policy against magazines? Why would viewing it on a laptop be any different?

My point isn't that people should be able to look at **** on the plane. I don't think they will be, because you don't hear about many problems with people thumbing through spank magazines, etc. And in the few cases where someone is viewing inappropriate material - either on a laptop or paperback, you just ask them to put it away.


Again, I understand and agree. As the article says, they are trying to develop policies for new technologies. I don't know that nudie magazines as an example are currently a problem or not. It would seem from the article that someone is foreseeing a potential problem and trying to get ahead of it.

Good discussion, thanks.

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

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Report this Post12-27-2007 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Direct Link to This Post
I have the ultimate solution. www.netjets.com

------------------
1988 Fiero Formula T-tops
CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"

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htexans1
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Report this Post12-27-2007 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Direct Link to This Post

htexans1

9115 posts
Member since Sep 2001
Do'h double post.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 12-27-2007).]

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blackrams
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Report this Post12-27-2007 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:
I have the ultimate solution. www.netjets.com


I've been working on that option, will probably do it once I make my second million.

(Gave up on my first million.)

------------------
Ron

It's the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us the freedom of the press.
It's the Soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us the freedom of speech.
It's the Soldier, not the politicians
That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag.

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Report this Post12-27-2007 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sostockSend a Private Message to sostockDirect Link to This Post
i was once on a plane coming back from vegas and was offended by a passenger sitting next to me. he was watching the movie "dodgeball" on a portable dvd player and wouldn't give me a ear phone so i could listen. i think it may have been uncomfortable for him with me starring over his shoulder for two hours.
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Report this Post12-27-2007 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

What if someone is reading their copy of Gigantic Jugs on the plane?


So why would anyone care? It's my favorite mag!

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Report this Post12-28-2007 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
For commercial carriers....no cell phones, no internet. If its an emergency or important they have an Airphone. Dont like it, charter your own flight or go private. I have a friend who runs NetJets if you need one. I have no objection to watching movies on DVDs on your laptop however as long as you use earphones.
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