Anyone know anything technical which would make the following dangerous, I don't mean the not wearing the seatbelt part but the method being used: what I see is guys here at work doing all the time, which is taking the seatbelt and plugging it in then tucking it behind the seat so they don't have to deal with it or that annoying bell reminding them to buckle up. Now I'm hearing that this may trick the car computer (06 explorer) into thinking the person is belted in and doing something with the timing of the firing of the airbag in a frontal impact?
They are trying to get themselves killed and/or ticketed.
Airbags, of any design, are not intended to be used w/o a belt. They won't be able to protect properly and may even cause greater injuries. As it is airbags are well known for causing certain injuries when they deploy. Many trucks and SUV now have manual or automatic shutoff for passenger airbag to keep it from heaving things, like laptops and small cargo that may be on the seat, around the cabin in a wreck.
In a bunch of states not wearing the belts is a Primary Offense, which means they can stop you for that alone and it's a fairly fat ticket. In other states where it is still a secondary offense, they can usually still find something to stop you for and add that to the ticket. Your state may not have such laws but adjacent states may.
If the company is allowing this behavior... even if that's just turning a blind eye to a policy violation, then they are begging for major law suites should one of those guys wreck. It is possible that insurance companies won't pay up and/or they raise the rates tremendously for such behavior. Safety policies at many companies are there as a direct result that there is often a major insurance cost benefit for having such things. Insurance companies don't like fraud. If they are giving a discount they expect the terms to be fulfilled.
Worse if this is happening in company vehicles because of maintenance problems... IE the belts aren't working right... There could even be criminal results if one of them wrecks.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurasic Park)
Funny thing about this, is that here in Maine there are certain people who are exempt from wearing a seatbelt, with or without an airbag in the vehicle.
Postmen,
Meter readers,
People who have pacemakers,
There are others I just can’t think of them right now.
I find it amazing that a state that allows motorcycle riders to ride without a helmet require us to wear a belt when in a car.
Yet these people are exempt.
As far as how smart it is to not wear a seatbelt in a vehicle, I really don’t know.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Even if they are exempt... If that airbag goes off and they aren't wearing belts they will pay for it. And what I said about insurance etc may also be other than whatever the law is. Insurance is a bunch of other laws plus contract law. If you agree to something under the contract, you'd better agree to it or it's a breach and maybe even criminal fraud.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-07-2007).]
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06:42 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The closer you are to the airbag the more dangerous it is. So if you are not wearing your seatbelt and are involved in a head-on collision, Your body will start to move forward a split second before the airbag deploys. This creates a condition that could arise in more serious injuries or even death. Basically it's a "blank" shotgun shell with a bag in front of it. If you run into the steering wheel before the bag can fill up to cushion you, all that explosive force goes into your chest. The seatbelt keeps you from slamming into the steering wheel and prevents the situation that could happen with an airbag.
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06:47 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Airbags are a supplemental restraining system that are supposed to be used in conjunction with the seat belts. They are not meant to be the primary restarining system. They are an explosive device. You want to be as far away from the airbag as you can when it deploys, as it can cause severe injuries or death if you are too close to it.
Someone I know was recently hit with an airbag in a fairly low speed crash. Even with seatbelt it's like getting hit with a very hot 50 pound bag of potatoes dropped from pretty high onto you laying under it. It leaves blunt impact stress/trauma and nasty friction and thermal burns.
And yes, it is well confirmed that the closer you are the worse it can be. Airbags have killed more than a few people. Usually children and small drivers. (All Drivers below about 5' 5" are at greater risk) "Advanced" airbag systems now in many current models are better but still dangerous under certain conditions. No airbag system is safe w/o a seat belt.
On a side note... If you are ever in a a wreck that deploys airbags, if you are at all able to do so... ventilate or exit the vehicle quickly. Asthmatics should take a hit of their inhaler ASAP. Airbag exhaust is nasty stuff and can trigger severe asthma attacks and choking even in people w/o asthma.
Even tho it's legal for them to not wear the belts, there may be grounds for major law suites if they are wrecked and hit with the airbag while not belted. I would not want to own the company that allows this.
as usual you guys are not reading my actual question, I understand perfectly well how airbags/seatbelts are designed to work together, and also all the implications legal etc of not wearing your belt, that said I'm looking for any techinical info on later style vehicles, which do use sensors to look at the area in front of the seat etc, I am wondering if there is a possibility that they look at the seatbelt latch which also obviously has a sensor, the reason I asked is because I see guys routinely faking this sensor out by doing the old plug the belt and run it behind the seat deal so as not to hear the warning chime all shift long I just wondered if there would be another way around this to satisfy the non belt wearers that isn't so dangerous like finding the chime wire and cutting it. Again I'm well aware of the legal issues so please drop the discussion of anything like that no offense intended to those who inserted their 2 cents.
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08:02 PM
turboguy327 Member
Posts: 1692 From: Webster, NY USA Registered: Feb 2007
yes some cars do look to see if the passengers are buckled up. I have disbaled all of my airbags on all of my cars. I have had problems with 2 of my fords. I had an escort where both driver and passenger airbags never went off until we went to take our belts off. we both got hit pretty hard by them and the injuries from the bags where the only injuries we had. just take out the fuses and dont worry about em.
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09:43 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Some of the newer cars have weight sensors that will determine how hard the airbag deploys, depending upon your weight. Buckling the seat belts will not defeat the airbags from going off but it will stop the chime. It might be legal to disarm the airbags, as some trucks come with a switch to do so for the passenger side one, but I am not certain of this.
as usual you guys are not reading my actual question, I understand perfectly well how airbags/seatbelts are designed to work together, and also all the implications legal etc of not wearing your belt, that said I'm looking for any techinical info on later style vehicles, which do use sensors to look at the area in front of the seat etc, I am wondering if there is a possibility that they look at the seatbelt latch which also obviously has a sensor, the reason I asked is because I see guys routinely faking this sensor out by doing the old plug the belt and run it behind the seat deal so as not to hear the warning chime all shift long I just wondered if there would be another way around this to satisfy the non belt wearers that isn't so dangerous like finding the chime wire and cutting it. Again I'm well aware of the legal issues so please drop the discussion of anything like that no offense intended to those who inserted their 2 cents.
I read the question Very well and I think what you want is pictures or graphic details. This is the wrong forum, but I will tell you what I think. My brother 38 Y.O. wont wear seat belts unless he See's a cop, I don't like riding with him just for that reason. The consequences are numerous, loosing a family member or friend, The high cost of insurance, The Knowledge of what a seat belt can do to protect your internal organs. My children sometimes don't fasten the belt and I go ballistic if I find out, their 3,7,8 and 9.
yes some cars do look to see if the passengers are buckled up. I have disbaled all of my airbags on all of my cars. I have had problems with 2 of my fords. I had an escort where both driver and passenger airbags never went off until we went to take our belts off. we both got hit pretty hard by them and the injuries from the bags where the only injuries we had. just take out the fuses and dont worry about em.
Sorry for the Air Bags going off in your face but WHY are you driving Fords? The information is out there, I tell everyone I can DON'T buy Ford. I know all cars are crappy but everyone should Know and tell all their friends DON'T BUY FORD.
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11:21 PM
Oct 8th, 2007
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
I read the question Very well and I think what you want is pictures or graphic details. This is the wrong forum, but I will tell you what I think.
Again I never asked how to do this or anything of that nature, nor did I ask for anyone's opinion or approval of not wearing belts, I do so myself, the information I was seeking is technical only so I guess I need a Ford engineering forum if anyone knows of anything, otherwise this is a O/T topic so please add something if you have it, and leave your rants etc back home... The reason I posted to begin with is some blurb regarding the fact that newer cars airbags may have the information regarding seatbelt usage or not based on the latch sensor and may make adjustment to the firing timing etc, which if the computer is being tricked as I see happening by guys who wrap the belt around the back of the seat, then they may get more hurt than if they didn't buckle up at all, I'd like to suggest another way of handing this problem to them such as cutting the wire to the seatbelt warning chime, can't see how that would be a legal issue etc (YES I SUPPOSE SOME A##@CLOWN Could sue claiming he forgot to put the belt on because there was no warning chime please SIMMER DOWN NAH)
They are trying to get themselves killed and/or ticketed.
Airbags, of any design, are not intended to be used w/o a belt. They won't be able to protect properly and may even cause greater injuries. As it is airbags are well known for causing certain injuries when they deploy. Many trucks and SUV now have manual or automatic shutoff for passenger airbag to keep it from heaving things, like laptops and small cargo that may be on the seat, around the cabin in a wreck.
In a bunch of states not wearing the belts is a Primary Offense, which means they can stop you for that alone and it's a fairly fat ticket. In other states where it is still a secondary offense, they can usually still find something to stop you for and add that to the ticket. Your state may not have such laws but adjacent states may.
If the company is allowing this behavior... even if that's just turning a blind eye to a policy violation, then they are begging for major law suites should one of those guys wreck. It is possible that insurance companies won't pay up and/or they raise the rates tremendously for such behavior. Safety policies at many companies are there as a direct result that there is often a major insurance cost benefit for having such things. Insurance companies don't like fraud. If they are giving a discount they expect the terms to be fulfilled.
Worse if this is happening in company vehicles because of maintenance problems... IE the belts aren't working right... There could even be criminal results if one of them wrecks.
Ironically I got pulled over the one day I didnt wear it and the highway patrol officer almost ran off the road looking over to check.
Who is the real menace here?
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05:18 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33101 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Originally posted by Pyrthian: mostly - it is because they are to fat to comfortably put the belt on ever watch a fat person try and belt up in a unfamilear car?
HEY, I resemble that remark!
------------------ Ron
Never, never do anything or wear things that you don't want to have to explain to Paramedics, it can get very embarrassing. They talk!
