Paint guys (Roger and company):

Well, my organization is very seriously considering another truck (a small one this time - we thought we found a Toyota but it fell through). We recently got rid of our gas hog Sierra and most of the small trucks we have looked at for cheap (the Center does not want to spend a lot of $$$ on a vehicle we will only use occasionally) are in need of a paint job. As for equipment, not a problem, I have a couple of DeVilbiss guns and have painted cars and airplanes in the past. What I have never painted though is single stage enamel (have painted lacquer and aircraft epoxy 2 part paints). The center wants cheap and as far as I can tell single stage black and white enamel is about as cheap as it gets. I can build a temporary "clean" enclosure in which to paint, not a problem for an old truck, it does not have to be perfect.

So any opinions good or bad for single stage enamel? Tips or tricks?

Thanks!

I hate single stage enamel and I won't spray it anymore. The overspray and mist stays tacky for quite a while and even with a temporary clean area the dust settles on everything and stays. If you are looking for a cheap black or white, hit MAACO. We had one of our company vans done and it was about $500 complete ( no door jambs, though...) and it was actually a very good job. With all the time you'll spend and the cost of the paint, it's worth it to have it done. If you are dead set on shooting it yourself, I'd suggest going with a urethane single stage then. It might be a little more expensive depending on the supplier and brand, but you'll end up with better results. Enamel stays wet for a much longer time adding to the threat of runs and curtains whereas the urethane sets up a lot quicker and it's a more durable paint.

Good luck.

Mark

quote Originally posted by Firefox: I hate single stage enamel and I won't spray it anymore. The overspray and mist stays tacky for quite a while and even with a temporary clean area the dust settles on everything and stays. If you are looking for a cheap black or white, hit MAACO. We had one of our company vans done and it was about $500 complete ( no door jambs, though...) and it was actually a very good job. With all the time you'll spend and the cost of the paint, it's worth it to have it done. If you are dead set on shooting it yourself, I'd suggest going with a urethane single stage then. It might be a little more expensive depending on the supplier and brand, but you'll end up with better results. Enamel stays wet for a much longer time adding to the threat of runs and curtains whereas the urethane sets up a lot quicker and it's a more durable paint. Good luck. Mark

Thanks Fox! + for ya.

The Board of Directors is really TIGHT with money now days. I don't mind shooting a truck for them (with no guarantee of the results ). I will be taking my Fiero to Maaco, but that is a little too much $$ for them. They found out I could paint when they saw my primered 86 GT. "Ah, you paint cars?" LOL

The single stage urethane sounds like a good idea, again I have been out of the auto body field for so long I skipped the introduction of urethane paint altogether. Any tips for urethane, anything I should know about gun pressure or technique? I would imagine it shoots a lot like the epoxy paints we used in the Air Force. Luckily I have an old parts car 85 2M6 I can practice on.

Thanks again.

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 07-01-2007).]

Not to hijack the thread, but what's your opinion of some of the newer water based automotive paints, Mark? Like Auto Air? Have you ever shot it? I'm looking for something I can shoot myself on the race car and the race car budget is just as tight as Tut's board of directors. I also really like the fact that the only time you have to get really careful on the breathing protection is when shooting the clear.

John Stricker

I have never sprayed any water based color, but I am going to try it one of these days. It's a whole new idea and I've heard that they can work out pretty well but they are harder to spray than conventional paint. I haven't had time to work on my own stuff yet and until I can clear out my schedule with customer cars I won't be able to give it a shot just yet. My paint guys had been carrying the Auto Air line for about a year and pulled it off of the shelf as they didn't sell much of anything and the reviews that I heard weren't so good. I do want to try it out for myself and see if the water based stuff is going to work out as well as my PPG DBU base colors. I have the ability to take some time to give it a shot whereas a shop can't take the chance on customer cars. As for the race car, you're probably better off with a single stage urethane.

Mark

quote Originally posted by tutnkmn: Any tips for urethane?

Urethane is a great material, but safety precautions are mandatory. Catalyzed urethanes can kill you if you don't observe proper safety procedures!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-01-2007).]

Thanks Mark.

My big reason for interest is the safety aspect of shooting it as compared to uurethane. I've painted tractors and things like that but never a car that I was concerned about what it would look like close up. It doesn't need to be anywhere near a show finish, or for that matter even OEM quality. We're going to have to pull the nose off the car and make some modifications, and I'm considering making a lightweight glass hood, but I need to do that before paint, obviously, and it all has to be done by the middle of August.

If you want to come down and shoot it I'd buy you and airplane ticket.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Firefox: I have never sprayed any water based color, but I am going to try it one of these days. It's a whole new idea and I've heard that they can work out pretty well but they are harder to spray than conventional paint. I haven't had time to work on my own stuff yet and until I can clear out my schedule with customer cars I won't be able to give it a shot just yet. My paint guys had been carrying the Auto Air line for about a year and pulled it off of the shelf as they didn't sell much of anything and the reviews that I heard weren't so good. I do want to try it out for myself and see if the water based stuff is going to work out as well as my PPG DBU base colors. I have the ability to take some time to give it a shot whereas a shop can't take the chance on customer cars. As for the race car, you're probably better off with a single stage urethane. Mark

I wish I had the time to come down and spray it for you. I need a vacation ( even if it's painting! ).

As for the safety aspect, yeah.....be careful. Make sure you have a good charcoal resperator and a air exchange unit of some sort ( fan sucking air out with a filtered inlet ), wear long sleeves, long pants, hood of some sort, and goggles. You can usually buy a full nylon painters disposable suit at any auto paint store and they aren't that expensive at all. You do need to be protected from the fumes and overspray as it is not healthy to be exposed to it. Plus it doesn't taste very good.

Mark

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Not to hijack the thread, but what's your opinion of some of the newer water based automotive paints, Mark? Like Auto Air? Have you ever shot it? I'm looking for something I can shoot myself on the race car and the race car budget is just as tight as Tut's board of directors. I also really like the fact that the only time you have to get really careful on the breathing protection is when shooting the clear. John Stricker

best to ask your jobber. I've sold a little Auto Air colors, but it was to a custom cycle painter for doing airbrush work. I know they're bigger into that with all sorts of combo kits in small quantities. He liked it, and bought it so he could spray it in his basement. Btw, the job he did with it on one bike I saw looked great.

I assume your going to shoot it in your barn ? If so, then you dont have an overspray problem Id just shoot it in single stage acrylic enamel. You can put catalyst in it or not. I did my Mercedes in it, wet sanded and buffed it and looked like laquer. Of course, you dont have to buff it if you dont want. Im going to paint my 'new' parts van with it, no catalyst. Thats what the shop I was in did all its jobs with except for custom laquer jobs before they came out with Imron.

If you're talking to me, Roger, I'm going to shoot it in my shop so yes, overspray IS a major problem.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I assume your going to shoot it in your barn ? If so, then you dont have an overspray problem Id just shoot it in single stage acrylic enamel. You can put catalyst in it or not. I did my Mercedes in it, wet sanded and buffed it and looked like laquer. Of course, you dont have to buff it if you dont want. Im going to paint my 'new' parts van with it, no catalyst. Thats what the shop I was in did all its jobs with except for custom laquer jobs before they came out with Imron.

No John, speaking to TUT, Ive been to his house and hes got a huge 3 story barn with nothing in it.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I assume your going to shoot it in your barn ? If so, then you dont have an overspray problem Id just shoot it in single stage acrylic enamel. You can put catalyst in it or not. I did my Mercedes in it, wet sanded and buffed it and looked like laquer. Of course, you dont have to buff it if you dont want. Im going to paint my 'new' parts van with it, no catalyst. Thats what the shop I was in did all its jobs with except for custom laquer jobs before they came out with Imron.

Yep, likely gonna build a plastic enclosure to keep the worst of the barn dust out of the paint. I'd NEVER shoot a Fiero or anything I'd want to look great in that filthy 150 year old horse barn, but an old truck? Sure. Does not have to be perfect.

Actually, I've found several sources for lacquer paint online. It's not legal in some areas of Ohio, but it is out here in the boonies May just go lacquer and be done with it, quick, easy and dries in 3 seconds LOL.

For that particular vehicle, I wouldnt recommend laquer. Especially now in the summer heat. It would have to be color sanded and buffed and it would take maintanence. I know the city vehicles here rarely ever get even washed, much less polished. Laquer would be lucky to last 2 years with all that being said. Acrylic enamel on the other hand is done when you finish spraying, not very toxic in the air (if you dont use hardener) and will be air dry overnite. It will dry pretty much dust free in an hour or so. Dont mistake acylic enamel for enamel...much different. Ditzler Del Star or SW Acrylyd are good. 2 coats will do fine, laquer will take at least twice that.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: For that particular vehicle, I wouldnt recommend laquer. Especially now in the summer heat. It would have to be color sanded and buffed and it would take maintanence. I know the city vehicles here rarely ever get even washed, much less polished. Laquer would be lucky to last 2 years with all that being said. Acrylic enamel on the other hand is done when you finish spraying, not very toxic in the air (if you dont use hardener) and will be air dry overnite. It will dry pretty much dust free in an hour or so. Dont mistake acylic enamel for enamel...much different. Ditzler Del Star or SW Acrylyd are good. 2 coats will do fine, laquer will take at least twice that.

Looks like it comes down to enamel or urethane single stage then.

Although the whole idea of the Tremclad/roller idea is intriguing. Looks like that would take eons of sanding and sanding and sanding and polishing to make it look OK though (too much investment of time if you ask me for a marginal job). Still very curious what the results of those jobs look like up close. Might call for an experiment on a parts car LOL Sprayed Tremclad might look good though. They say the paint is tough as nails. Might need to make a trip to Toronto soon.

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 07-07-2007).]