I've been doing some research as to what would be the best long range (~600 yds.) caliber for varmint. Alot of sources are saying a .308 load is good up to 1k yds. but wears out barrels faster. I would love a .243 for its avalibility, BC and flat traj. but wasnt sure if this was enough for 600 yds reliably. Also, I havent seen alot about .270's. To me it would be a great median between the power of a .308 and the BC and flatness of a .243

Any input appreciated!

.30-06

I'm not exactly a gun expert. However, I've heard many good things about the .270 caliber. Just keep in mind that the rifle plays just as much a part as the load. For example, I've seen many AR15 type rifles (.223) that can reliably take down varmints at 600yd. Of course, they're using expensive hardware and match grade ammo. But still... this goes to show that even the "lowly" .223 caliber can have long range accuracy.

The big questions: What will you be shooting at? And how much recoil can you comfortably handle?

I'm also not a gun expert, but these are the opinions I've formed over the years. In general, smaller calibers tend to be more effective for varmints at long range. Small rounds tend to have a higher velocity, which translates to a shorter flight time and a flatter trajectory. Bigger rounds, like the .30-06 or the .308 have more drop than I want for varmints. And for small targets, they're overkill as far as power IMHO. The only thing you really gain from a large caliber when varmint shooting at long range is increased resistance to wind. But the speed of the small round can compensate to some extent for wind. And at long range on a windy day, wind is going to be a concern no matter what you're shooting.

.22-250, .223, .243 and .25-06 are good choices for varmint rigs. .270 is also an excellent round, high velocity with a very flat trajectory. But again, a bit of overkill IMHO for small game, and recoil can get uncomfortable after multiple rounds. My personal choice for a varmint setup is an AR15 (.223), with a heavy 24" barrel, flat top upper receiver, 2 stage trigger, free floated handguards, and Leupold optics. Recoil is almost non-existent, and I like the ergonomics and versatility of the AR platform. And the fact that it's semi-auto makes for faster shots. From an elevated prone position with a bipod and custom ammo, I've hit prairie dogs from a little over 600 yards away.

Remember that the barrel, ammo, and the optics will play a huge part in your accuracy, no matter which caliber you go with. For a tack driver varmint rig, you'll want a heavy barrel that's floated, quality glass and match grade ammunition.

[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 04-26-2007).]

Flattest trajectory bullet over long range is a .270

It has been tested with all the other rounds, don’t have the study at hand, but I’m sure someone else here can find it.

As far as stopping power at that range, now that would also depend on the bullet type.

A black talon (brand name), or jacketed hollow point put in the right spot will drop any varmint.

But anything larger I would go with a larger round, although I have been wrong before. Just allow for the drop of the round.

PS

We use the .243 for all around hunting here, at short range or long range it will drop just about anything from a deer on down, but if you are going after beer or moose. I would recommend a larger round.

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: ..........but if you are going after beer or moose. I would recommend a larger round.

When I am trying to down a beer I use a 12 gauge...umm...ouncer, .

OK

I was going to edit my post because I misspelled something, dah,

can you find it?

I need a vacation!

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Here's the link to this very informative site: http://www.chuckhawks.com/ultra-long-range.htm

Ultra-Long Range Rifles and Cartridges

By Chuck Hawks
Rifles and cartridges suitable for shooting medium size big game at ranges much beyond 300 yards are relatively few. Shooters with the experience and ability to take advantage of these rifles and cartridges are even fewer.

Yet, judging by my e-mail, there is an inordinate amount of interest in such rifles and cartridges. The majority of the letters I receive about ultra-long range hunting rifles are not from the tiny minority of shooters with the great field experience and proven ability to make use of such rifles, but rather from beginning and novice shooters and hunters. Evidently the wise old pros know better!

What I call "long range" rifles are exemplified by (but not limited to) medium weight bolt action rifles, usually with 22-24" barrels. A good example of such a rifle would be the ever popular Remington Model 700 BDL. When chambered for the .270 Winchester cartridge the 700 BDL comes with a 22" barrel and has an overall length of 42.5 inches. The catalog weight of this rifle is approximately 7.4 pounds, which means it will weigh about 8.4 pounds (or more) when equipped with a telescopic sight.

All of the trajectory information that follows assumes a rifle with a scope mounted 1.5" over the axis of the bore. Bullet velocities are based on typical catalog figures for factory loaded ammunition whenever possible.

Long range rifles are chambered for an assortment of popular cartridges. The .270 Winchester shooting a 130 grain bullet has long been the standard of comparison for long range rifle cartridges. A .270 with this weight bullet is nearly ideal as a general purpose long range rifle. But the .243 Winchester with 95 grain bullets, 6mm Remington with 95-100 grain bullets, .25-06 with 100 grain bullets, 6.5mm Rem. Mag. with 120 grain bullets, 6.5x68 with 140 grain bullets, .270 WSM with 140-150 grain bullets, 7x64 with 140 grain bullets, .280 Remington with 140 grain bullets, 7mm Rem. SAUM and 7mm Rem. Mag. with 150 grain bullets, .300 Rem. SAUM with 165 grain bullets, .300 WSM and .300 Win. Mag. with 165-180 grain bullets, .300 Wby. Mag. with 200 grain bullets, .300 Ultra Mag. with 200 grain bullets, 8x68S with 170 grain bullets, and 8mm Rem. Mag. with 170-180 grain bullets all have a similar trajectory (assuming bullets with similar ballistic coefficients). These cartridges and loads all offer muzzle velocities of 3000 fps to about 3150 fps. There are other cartridges and loads that have similar trajectories, but those named above are representative of typical long range hunting cartridges.

These cartridges have a trajectory flat enough to allow a point blank range (where the bullet neither rises nor falls more than 3" above or below the line of sight) extending from the muzzle to somewhere around 296-306 yards. Zero a scoped rifle so that the bullet hits about 2.5 high at 100 yards and it will strike about 3" high at 150 yards, roughly 2.3" high at 200 yards, and about 3" low at 300 yards. This will allow solid hits without "holding over" on medium size big game animals (like most North American deer) out to approximately 300 yards or a little farther.

There is whole lot more info available on his site, I've only posted a few paragraphs from the opening page. Chuck Hawks is considered an expert in this area. Shooting from long distances is OK but, there is nothing like going hand to hand with a ground hog on a face to face basis. Fire a Weatherby .460 once and you'll fall for it. No ground hog will ever scare you again.


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Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-26-2007).]

Barrett .416 not the .50. 2.5 mile accuracy.

Edit: But honestly I shoot a lot of guns, but am not an expert. For accuracy I would take my .270 over the .243 any day. But the .270 is a nicer model Remington 700 which I LOVE. I was putting the rounds through the same hole up to 250 yards and then out at 700 yards I was within 3/4 MOA.

[This message has been edited by ace35 (edited 04-26-2007).]

IMO, the best I've shot was a Remingtom 722 chambered for .223 . Would reach out 700 - 800 yds consistantly. Of course, with any small caliber, wind will play a significant effect on accuracy.

Steve,

If it was the test I'm thinking of, the .270 and the .22-.250 were very close to the same, with the .270 being a little flatter, but the .22-.250 shooting tighter groups at long range. Does that sound about how your remember it as well?

For varmints, really a .22-.250 is plenty of power. More than enough for a coyote at 4-500 yards. From there it comes down to preference and what you're going to be shooting. Personally for unwanted varmints (coyotes, racoons, skunks, etc., if they're close in I just grab my Ruger 10-22, but for longer range I have a Ruger Mini-14 Rancher



Although it's not a long range gun with most practical limits for skunk sized targets of about 1/8 mile (250 yards) or so. They can shoot further accurately, but on a normal day, normal conditions, that's about where I consider the limits to be for me. Normally that's enough. There's not a lot of need, IME, for shooting out to 1/4 mile or more. If something like a varmint is more then 1/4 mile away, then it's probably not much of a nuisance. If you also want to use it for personal defence (sniper rifle) get a .50 cal.

The right tool for the job and all that. (no, I don't have a .50 cal. If the need ever arises for any of my guns to be used for personal defense, I suspect it will be closer than that.)

John Stricker

PS: Steve, you wrote:

but if you are going after beer or moose. I would recommend a larger round. Around here a Saturday Night Special is enough to hold up a convenience store to get BEER, but I generally just use money.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Flattest trajectory bullet over long range is a .270 It has been tested with all the other rounds, don’t have the study at hand, but I’m sure someone else here can find it. As far as stopping power at that range, now that would also depend on the bullet type. A black talon (brand name), or jacketed hollow point put in the right spot will drop any varmint. But anything larger I would go with a larger round, although I have been wrong before. Just allow for the drop of the round. PS We use the .243 for all around hunting here, at short range or long range it will drop just about anything from a deer on down, but if you are going after beer or moose. I would recommend a larger round.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: PS We use the .243 for all around hunting here, at short range or long range it will drop just about anything from a deer on down, but if you are going after beer or moose. I would recommend a larger round.

Steve,
You must have some really tough laws up there. Normally a driver's license and a few bucks will get you the "Beer".

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Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.

Wow, thanks for all the great responses. +'s I think I'm leaning towards the .270, just for the fact that if I want to shoot varmint I can, but will also have the option of dropping larger game at distances. As for the gun, I would loooove a Christensen Arms Carbon custom Ed Brown Damara. I'm sure alot will say to save my money, but I really want something unique. I'm looking at this as in investment, since the future of gun purchasing is honestly scares me.