As mentioned in another thread, I have been test driving lots of cars recently. A couple asked for a copy of my license, most didn't care. The local Nissan dealer was different, they insisted on my home phone and address. I asked him why, and he said it was "for insurance purposes" I told him not to call me, for ANY reason, unless I wrecked/damaged the car and the insurance company needed to talk to me. He promised. That was Saturday afternoon

Sure enough, I got a call on my home phone yesterday...the first unexpected call on that line in over 2 years. My father answered, and upon hearing that my father was not me, he hung up without giving any information. My dad did *69, and recorded the number for me. I looked it up when I got home from work, suspecting the salesman. Sure enough, it came up as an unlisted landline in the vicinity of the dealership. I called it, asked for my salesman, and thoroughly enjoyed the following conversation:

Me: "Hi XXXX, this is XXXXXXXX, I test drove a Sentra and a Versa this past Saturday?"
Him: "Ohh, hi XXXXXXXX!"
Me: "Tell me, XXXX, did you try to call me this afternoon?"
Him: "Actually, I did..."
Me: "Ahh...do you remember what you said when I asked why you wanted my phone number?"
Him: "Well, I just wanted to thank you for coming in and to remind you to call me if you decide to go with the Sentra."
Me: "That's sweet of you, but I don't think that is what I asked you."
Him: "I said it was for insurance purposes..."
Me: "And what was your promise to me?"
Him: "That noone would call you unless you damaged a car."
Me: "Did I damage anything?
Him: "No."
Me: "Did your phone call have anything to do with insurance?"
Him: "No."
Me: "Hmm...well, thank you very much for calling, you have really helped me make a decision...you have made it a lot easier."
Him: "...umm...what do you mean?"
Me: "I mean that by proving yourself to be a liar about the motive for collecting my information, you have shown that there is no way I can trust you enough to give you thousands of dollars for a car. Looks like I'll be ending up with the Honda or the Scion..."
Him: "Wait a sec, I was just-CLICK-"

It was so satisfying. I had already decided against the Sentra anyway, but at least I could attempt to teach him a lesson. I doubt it stuck, but at least I got some enjoyment out of it.

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More info at: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043357.html

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 04-17-2007).]

lol good job.

I'm also in the market. I'm staying away from GM this time around. I fear I may be waiting for the Evo X ...

Well I used to be a car salesman. All the stories you hear about car sales people are.....................................true. The only way you can be a good (make a living) car salesman is to not care about your customer. i can't tell you how many times I sat across the desk from people who were buying a car they could not afford. I could not continue to force people into bad decisions. But on the other side of the coin, "Oh my car runs great" yeah right.
I'm sure there are decent people out selling cars. Not a career for me. JM

OUTSTANDING!

I do sales for a living right now as a college student, and I have enough trouble doing those sales because I am too honest with people - I could never make it as a car salesman. The good thing is that in the business I am in, if you are straight forward with people, you can still squeeze by and you can amass a great customer base because of your reputation.

There are honest people and crooked people out there, I'm sure there are plenty of great car salesmen just as there are those that are complete and utter slim balls - just like in every walk of life. I just avoid the situation and always buy private party used. Inspect the car yourself, know what you are looking for and you will be just fine most of the time.

~ Derek

EDIT: O yeah forgot Bigfieroman, excellent job! Unfortunately it will probably not change his ways. We are supposed to do customer calls out of my store but I refuse to do them because I hate calling people...because I hate getting called!

[This message has been edited by Derek_85GT (edited 04-17-2007).]

Bigfieroman,
I applaude your actions, you were apparently cool and collected. But I have to say that it's just as much your fault as his. You should have known he was going to call. If not, now you know. Saying he needed the information for insurance purposes was just a way of saving him some research time. It's not unusual for a sales person to ask to make a copy of your driver's license, though it's not necessary in most states but it sure gives them a lot of information about you. I never take a vehicle out alone, I want the sales person to go with me. That way if something happens he/she was there and I don't have to give them a copy of my driver's license. If that's not good enough, then I'll go somewhere else to shop. I no longer allow them access to any personal information unless I'm actually buying and it's necessary for the transaction. He's trying to make a living just like the rest of us. Now, do I think Car Sales folks are any more dishonest than the rest of us, not really. The time when your word was your bond and a hand shake would seal a deal are gone for most Americans. There are still some of around but they are getting harder to find everyday.

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Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-17-2007).]

Whenever a dealer insists on getting my number, I switch around the last two numbers in the phone number, so if I ever end up buying a car from them and it comes up in the paperwork, etc. I can tell them the salesman must have mixed them up when he wrote it down.

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1984 Fiero SE

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Bigfieroman, I applaude your actions, you were apparently cool and collected. But I have to say that it's just as much your fault as his. You should have known he was going to call. If not, now you know. Saying he needed the information for insurance purposes was just a way of saving him some research time. It's not unusual for a sales person to ask to make a copy of your driver's license, though it's not necessary in most states but it sure gives them a lot of information about you. I never take a vehicle out alone, I want the sales person to go with me. That way if something happens he/she was there and I don't have to give them a copy of my driver's license. If that's not good enough, then I'll go somewhere else to shop. I no longer allow them access to any personal information unless I'm actually buying and it's necessary for the transaction. He's trying to make a living just like the rest of us. Now, do I think Car Sales folks are any more dishonest than the rest of us, not really. The time when your word was your bond and a hand shake would seal a deal are gone for most Americans. There are still some of around but they are getting harder to find everyday.

I was about 75% sure he was going to call at some point...though I expected it closer to my purchase date (mid may). The way I figured it, if I didn't want the car, just teach him a lesson and be done with it. If I did want the car, I would be able to use proof of his lie as leverage in bargaining. Other than the fact that I had to endure his phone call, (not bad at all, I actually liked the guy), it was a win-win situation for me.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Sure enough, I got a call on my home phone yesterday...the first unexpected call on that line in over 2 years. My father answered, and upon hearing that my father was not me, he hung up without giving any information. My dad did *69, and recorded the number for me.

Paranoid much? Your telling me in 2 years you have never had a wrong number or a surprise call? And when you did the first thing done is to *69 so you could see who could have possiblely broke into your inner sanctum of phone calling? LOL

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: I was about 75% sure he was going to call at some point...though I expected it closer to my purchase date (mid may). The way I figured it, if I didn't want the car, just teach him a lesson and be done with it. If I did want the car, I would be able to use proof of his lie as leverage in bargaining. Other than the fact that I had to endure his phone call, (not bad at all, I actually liked the guy), it was a win-win situation for me.

Works for me.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.

quote Originally posted by OutsideGroove: Paranoid much? Your telling me in 2 years you have never had a wrong number or a surprise call? And when you did the first thing done is to *69 so you could see who could have possiblely broke into your inner sanctum of phone calling? LOL

Actually, no...I just moved back in with my parents after college. I have been using my cell phone for all business for the last 5+ years...I am sure they have gotten wrong numbers, but everyone who calls me uses my cell phone. My father did the *69 because the guy didn't leave any info and my father wanted to be able to give me a message beyond "some guy called for you".

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Actually, no...I just moved back in with my parents after college. I have been using my cell phone for all business for the last 5+ years...I am sure they have gotten wrong numbers, but everyone who calls me uses my cell phone. My father did the *69 because the guy didn't leave any info and my father wanted to be able to give me a message beyond "some guy called for you".

I was just picking on ya, I do it to a friend of mine all the time, he is much worse, he likes to " stay off the grid " LOL

Nice job. That's ONE way to 'teach" people to respect what you say.

Some good advice from a former car salesman:


Patrick is a former used car salesman who grew a conscience. He has three tips to share with us:

1. Buy in December
2. Bring your own financing
3. Watch out for the squeeze play.

http://consumerist.com/cons...-salesman-253044.php

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 04-17-2007).]

First rule of sales: Never commit to what you can't do and if you commit to do something....DO IT!

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Nice job. That's ONE way to 'teach" people to respect what you say.

I beg to differ. What EXACTLY did you TEACH him?
You had already made up your mind that you were not buying his product. So no matter
whether he called you or not he was not getting a sale. Its not like you were gonna buy it but then he
called and you decided to go elsewhere.

Also, you may think you're having a good joke on him right now but what you don't understand is
right after he hung up with you he went right on to the next follow-up call and then next and so on. I can assure you
that his sales percentage is higher at the end of the month due to his following his rules from his boss and making those follow up calls.
Now not to get off track, your complaint is that he lied to you in obtaining your information and you are 100% right. That was wrong no matter how anyone should twist the words. But lets face it, you were never that serious about buying a car in the first place or you would have been happy for him to have your number, after all, it is just a cell phone number, not your bank account number!

quote Originally posted by Greg Z: I beg to differ. What EXACTLY did you TEACH him? You had already made up your mind that you were not buying his product. So no matter whether he called you or not he was not getting a sale. Its not like you were gonna buy it but then he called and you decided to go elsewhere. Also, you may think you're having a good joke on him right now but what you don't understand is right after he hung up with you he went right on to the next follow-up call and then next and so on. I can assure you that his sales percentage is higher at the end of the month due to his following his rules from his boss and making those follow up calls. Now not to get off track, your complaint is that he lied to you in obtaining your information and you are 100% right. That was wrong no matter how anyone should twist the words. But lets face it, you were never that serious about buying a car in the first place or you would have been happy for him to have your number, after all, it is just a cell phone number, not your bank account number!

As fas as he knows, I was still considering the Sentra. If he perceives that to be the truth, which in all indication he does, then he at least learned that there can be consequences for lying to customers. That's called a lesson...ironically, my teaching you the definition of the word lesson is also a lesson.

If a father tells his son that breaking a mirror is seven years of bad luck, and the son believes the father, the truth isn't relevant; the son is going to be careful with mirrors until he decides daddy was FOS.

I doubt that he was making many follow up calls, since he told me that I was the first customer in all day (2 PM!) and I didn't see a single other non-employee there until I left at 4.

Also, you shouldn't try to tell me things about my self that you have no ****ing clue about. I AM serious about buying a car, and I WAS seriously considering buying a Sentra FROM HIM...until about a day after the test drive. I decided that even though I loved the way the car drove, I could not live with a car I found to be hideous. Hell, it is STILL in the top four. The reason I didn't want him to have my number is that I didn't want to be harassed about a very personal decision. If I decided on the Sentra, I have his card, know where he works and have sat at his desk...there is no reason for him to contact me, I am capable of finding him. I didn't decide to "play a joke", as you put it, until he was proven to be a liar.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: As fas as he knows, I was still considering the Sentra. If he perceives that to be the truth, which in all indication he does, then he at least learned that there can be consequences for lying to customers. That's called a lesson...ironically, my teaching you the definition of the word lesson is also a lesson.

I'll give you that, if he perceives it to be the truth, then he may think twice again about how he handles it again. But you're making a big deal out of him simply doing his job, that man may have a family and kids just like you trying to support. I don't think he meant you any harm by calling you. And PLEASE be for real, you teach me a lesson, you not telling me anything I don't already know.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: I doubt that he was making many follow up calls, since he told me that I was the first customer in all day (2 PM!) and I didn't see a single other non-employee there until I left at 4.

How busy he was at the time you were there is not relevant. The car business customerwise is an up and down deal. You may sit there for hours with no one showing up and then BAM, have a lot full with people leaving because they can't get service.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Also, you shouldn't try to tell me things about my self that you have no ****ing clue about. I AM serious about buying a car, and I WAS seriously considering buying a Sentra FROM HIM...until about a day after the test drive. I decided that even though I loved the way the car drove, I could not live with a car I found to be hideous. Hell, it is STILL in the top four. The reason I didn't want him to have my number is that I didn't want to be harassed about a very personal decision. If I decided on the Sentra, I have his card, know where he works and have sat at his desk...there is no reason for him to contact me, I am capable of finding him. I didn't decide to "play a joke", as you put it, until he was proven to be a liar.

What do you mean I have no clue. I just got done reading that long rant about how car salesman were scum. You gave all of us a very good clue.
You say you cannot live with a car that is "hideous" but in the very next sentence you say its still in the top 4??????? WOW!
I never said you were playin a joke and still don't think you are, but as you said earlier that you won't be buyin till mid-May then you are not a very serious customer at the moment. And we all know how mid-May turns out to be end of June, Early August or never. The man was just trying to make a livin.

------------------
91 NSX - Black/Ivory w/40K (Daily Driver)
89 ESPRIT -White/Black
07 STANG GT -Black/Black ( resale car, not a keeper)
92 600SL -Red/Tan
87 928 S4 -Red/Black
86 928 S -Red/Tan
85 FIERO GT -Indy Clone
84 INDY -41k, 57th built
91 ALLANTE -Red/Black
77 T-BIRD -Maroon/Tan
90 TROFEO -White/Burgandy
94 GMC INDY -84 500 GMC Hauler clone
.
PROJECTS:
90 REATTA, 85 FIERO GT, FORMULA,
INDY, 80 MASERATTI V8

To clarify, I told him I was going to buy in mid-May in the third sentence I spoke to him when I first met him. He was not "simply doing his job" as you say, he lied to me and contacted me against my explicit wishes; unless his official duties are to lie to and harass customers, he was NOT doing his job. (and if you feel that is his job, I think it is safe to assume that car salesmen are indeed the scum of the earth)

Top four means just that...top four. I love the way the Solstice looks, but I will never own one because I just don't fit in it. There is slightly more to buying a car than looks alone(I know, it is shocking). I am considering practicality, price, features, performance, and mileage in addition to styling. The Sentra does well in all of the categories except looks, hence, top 4, but not a winner.

Once again, you are assuming you know **** that you really don't. I am buying in mid May. The xB should be available in showrooms by early May. I am going to test drive it and make a decision within a week. You can assume that I am lying or exaggerating for some reason, have fun with that, but again you prove yourself not to know what you are talking about.

Finally, you did say I was playing a joke when you said,
"...you may think you're having a good joke on him right now..."

I don't understand why you came out of the woodwork to attack my post, unless of course your are or were a car salesman. Is that the case?

[This message has been edited by Bigfieroman (edited 04-17-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: He was not "simply doing his job" as you say, he lied to me and contacted me against my explicit wishes; unless his official duties are to lie to and harass customers, he was NOT doing his job. (and if you feel that is his job, I think it is safe to assume that car salesmen are indeed the scum of the earth)

Look dude, take a chill pill!
Not once have I cursed you or drastically cut you down.
I already made it very clear to you that by lying to you he was wrong, did I not?
When I say it is just his job I'm trying to say maybe he forgot that you did not want him to call, after all that is quite odd that someone "serious" about buying a car is so adament about no phone calls.
It's not the usuall.

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Once again, you are assuming you know **** that you really don't. You can assume that I am lying or exaggerating for some reason, have fun with that, but again you prove yourself not to know what you are talking about.

I'm sorry, I did'nt realize I was doing so much assuming. I have been doing my best to go off the words you are putting down on this thread. I wasn't trying to say you for sure would not be buying in May, just that how often in life do we all go over budget, past deadlines, things just don't simply work out as fast as we would like, etc..etc....?

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Finally, you did say I was playing a joke when you said, "...you may think you're having a good joke on him right now..."

I didn't mean you were playin a joke on him at the dealership.
The meaning was here on this Forum havin a good joke on him talking behind his back without him being able to defend himself. Hence the part where I said "right now"

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: I don't understand why you came out of the woodwork to attack my post, unless of course your are or were a car salesman. Is that the case?

I did not come out of any woodwork, I have been on this Forum for quite some time.
Again let me remind you that I do not condone lying at all in any business and I stated that earlier. I do not know that salesman from a hole in the ground and could not give a rats ass about him. But yes I am a car salesman and I think its unfair just because you had a bad experience with him that you put all car salesman in the "scum" category. Is that so unfair that I would get offended by that thread title? I was not trying to attack you personally and apolojize if I did, I was only trying to show it from his perspective and point out a couple of things.

------------------
91 NSX - Black/Ivory w/40K (Daily Driver)
89 ESPRIT -White/Black
07 STANG GT -Black/Black ( resale car, not a keeper)
92 600SL -Red/Tan
87 928 S4 -Red/Black
86 928 S -Red/Tan
85 FIERO GT -Indy Clone
84 INDY -41k, 57th built
91 ALLANTE -Red/Black
77 T-BIRD -Maroon/Tan
90 TROFEO -White/Burgandy
94 GMC INDY -84 500 GMC Hauler clone
.
PROJECTS:
90 REATTA, 85 FIERO GT, FORMULA,
INDY, 80 MASERATTI V8

Ok, of course ALL car salesmen are not scum, but my experiences so far has led me to believe a lot of them are. You are probably a perfectly honest and respectful guy, hence your distaste for the thread title, and if you are, you are a rare breed.

Every place I have gone to so far, (7 different dealerships of various makes, etc), I told up front that I was not going to go over $20k, and I am not buying until I test drive the new xB, not a day sooner. Many were trying to force me to buy that day, trying to get me to fall in love with $$$$$$$$$$ models, claim there is only a $400 profit when it sells at MSRP.

One sales lady at a Honda dealer told me I could only pick 2 cars to test drive so she could assist other customers.

A scion dealer tried to sell me 2 different used 1st gen xBs for more than brand new MSRP. When I pointed it out, he told me the MSRP was $1300 more than it was. I walked over to a new one, pointed to the window sticker and asked if it was a misprint.

Another salesman at that same Scion dealer said I would have to come back the next day if I wanted to test drive a car, because they closed in 25 min!!!

You are right that not ALL are scum, as I have one salesman who actually told me to wait for the 2nd gen xB to make my decision and put zero pressure on me. He will be the one I buy my car from. Yeah, not all salesmen are scum, and not ALL clovers have 3 leaves, and not ALL Fords explode, and not ALL hippies smoke weed, etc etc. Then again, I didn't say all in the first place, you did.

i feel the same way about sales people they pressure you like crazy everyone of them that i have come in contact with have tried to perssure me thats why i buy wholesale.lol

I've had both good and bad experiences with car salesmen. You soon forget the good ones, but the bad ones live on forever! When I was looking to buy my wife a new car, we had decided on a new Focus. The dealer had the car she wanted, I talked to the banker about financing and was approved to write a check that day for the car. When I finally found a salesman, he was a prick, said I was lieing about the offers made by other dealers and then refused to come of the MSRP. I told him that I was not paying that much because there was supposed to be a rebate. His reply was, "If you want to buy that car, that is the price you are going to pay and if you don't buy it, someone else will." So I went to the Dodge dealership and could not even get a salesman to look my way. As soon as I got to the Chevy store, I was greeted by a polite younger guy who showed me a few cars. I ended up buying a Cavalier from him the next day.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: I've had both good and bad experiences with car salesmen. You soon forget the good ones, but the bad ones live on forever! When I was looking to buy my wife a new car, we had decided on a new Focus. The dealer had the car she wanted, I talked to the banker about financing and was approved to write a check that day for the car. When I finally found a salesman, he was a prick, said I was lieing about the offers made by other dealers and then refused to come of the MSRP. I told him that I was not paying that much because there was supposed to be a rebate. His reply was, "If you want to buy that car, that is the price you are going to pay and if you don't buy it, someone else will." So I went to the Dodge dealership and could not even get a salesman to look my way. As soon as I got to the Chevy store, I was greeted by a polite younger guy who showed me a few cars. I ended up buying a Cavalier from him the next day.

Cooter,
What you experienced (IMO) was 1) the differences in people in general and 2) a reflection of how the dealership was doing that particular month or maybe on that particular model. Let's face it, there are good folks and a$$holes in every walk of life. We all run into them on a daily basis and we also get to choose which ones we deal with. I don't think all car salesman are jerks/cheats/liars, but I do recognize that their job is to sell me a car. I take everything they say with a grain of salt and read all of any contract I sign. Not just on auto deals, I take that approach to all financial transactions just as (IMO) we all should.
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Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-18-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Bigfieroman: Ok, of course ALL car salesmen are not scum, but my experiences so far has led me to believe a lot of them are. You are probably a perfectly honest and respectful guy, hence your distaste for the thread title, and if you are, you are a rare breed.

Well, Yes I'm a car salesman but I'm very, very different.
First off, I'm not a new car salesman working for a pushy high overhead dealership.
I own my own dealership (used cars), so I make the rules. I run a zero pressure lot where we don't ask for any of your info nor or we pushy on the lot. I put good cars out with good prices and you either buy or you don't, whatever.
Will I ever be rich with this attitude? No. But thats just me and who I am. You would have bought from me if I had the product you wanted, but the problem is some people need pushing and you won't get the sale if you don't push a little. I know I have lost more sales than I have gained by not being pushy. So, not sayin I condone pushy salesman, but I do understand where they are coming from. They are taking orders from there bosses and just trying to support there families. Goodday. Greg Z

the topic demands that i bring this back out of retirement:

http://video.google.com/vid...genre%3Acomedy&hl=en

quote Originally posted by Jermz238: the topic demands that i bring this back out of retirement: http://video.google.com/vid...genre%3Acomedy&hl=en

ROFLMAO!!!

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Whenever a dealer insists on getting my number, I switch around the last two numbers in the phone number, so if I ever end up buying a car from them and it comes up in the paperwork, etc. I can tell them the salesman must have mixed them up when he wrote it down.

"So when you change the numbers, he calls my number looking for you instead. Thanks LOL (JOKE) "

Yup, one of the few social groups in the country that can pass a lie detector test regardless, the other group are politicians.

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The Fiero, a testiment to unique AMERICAN Engineering