''Chimpanzees have been seen using spears to hunt bush babies, U.S. researchers said on Thursday in a study that demonstrates a whole new level of tool use and planning by our closest living relatives.
Perhaps even more intriguing, it was only the females who fashioned and used the wooden spears, Jill Pruetz and Paco Bertolani of Iowa State University reported.
The chimps choose a branch, strip it of leaves and twigs, trim it down to a stable size and then chew the ends to a point. Then they use it to stab into holes where bush babies might be sleeping.
It is not a highly successful method of hunting. They only ever saw one chimpanzee succeed in getting a bush baby once. The apes mostly eat fruit, bark and legumes.
Part of the problem is this group of chimps is shy of humans, and the females, who seem to do most of this type of hunting, are especially wary. "I am willing to bet the females do it even more than we have seen," she said.''
no, since they are contemporary chimps and the development of tool-using is cultural feature.
we've known for some time that chimps - and other animals - use tools. what's interesting here is that they learn, and figure out how to use different, perhaps more sophisticated, kinds of tools.
my next question would be whether they developed the skill independently, or whether they observed human hunters. i doubt there's any way to determine that.
edit: i re-read the excerpt, and see that they're not using the "spear" in the sense of a projectile, but really just as a handheld pointy stick. that's not so radical a development, really.
[This message has been edited by Euterpe (edited 02-23-2007).]
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07:30 AM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
Originally posted by Euterpe: I re-read the excerpt, and see that they're not using the "spear" in the sense of a projectile, but really just as a handheld pointy stick. that's not so radical a development, really.
Hmm, depends on your perspective. May I suggest that to the bushbabies, it's one hell of a radical development.
------------------ Ron Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.
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01:52 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Brilliant in scientific theory presented as news fact in a news article.
"...a whole new level of tool use and planning by our closest living relatives." Closest living relatives. Stated factually. I missed where that reached essentially proven status. But stated as fact here.
"It is similar to what we say about early hominids that lived maybe 6 million years ago and were basically the precursors to humans." Stated and presented factually.
"Chimpanzees are genetically the closest living relatives to human beings, sharing more than 98 percent of our DNA. Scientists believe the precursors to chimps and humans split off from a common ancestor about 7 million years ago."
Fact mixed in with theory. Both presented as fact. Very effective technique. Also effective to present IRRELEVANT fact as relevant. Although interesting that we share 98% DNA with chimpanzees, I "THOUGHT" I had read about other creatures with which we share as much or more DNA and we are markedly different. But I may be in error on that one.
"...involve the kind of foresight and intellectual complexity that most likely typified early human relatives." More speculation about 'early human relatives' presented as fact.
I appreciate the link to the article. It was fascinating.
I do NOT care to open another discussion about evolution. Done to death. What I found fascinating was the article and the WAY these things were presented. Fabulously done. Deceptive. Speculative. But very effective.
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02:32 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by frontal lobe: I do NOT care to open another discussion about evolution. Done to death. What I found fascinating was the article and the WAY these things were presented. Fabulously done. Deceptive. Speculative. But very effective.
If you didn't care to open another discussion, then why did you? Or is this your attempt to get in the last word?
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02:39 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Brilliant in scientific theory presented as news fact in a news article.
"...a whole new level of tool use and planning by our closest living relatives." Closest living relatives. Stated factually. I missed where that reached essentially proven status. But stated as fact here.
"It is similar to what we say about early hominids that lived maybe 6 million years ago and were basically the precursors to humans." Stated and presented factually.
"Chimpanzees are genetically the closest living relatives to human beings, sharing more than 98 percent of our DNA. Scientists believe the precursors to chimps and humans split off from a common ancestor about 7 million years ago."
Fact mixed in with theory. Both presented as fact. Very effective technique. Also effective to present IRRELEVANT fact as relevant. Although interesting that we share 98% DNA with chimpanzees, I "THOUGHT" I had read about other creatures with which we share as much or more DNA and we are markedly different. But I may be in error on that one.
"...involve the kind of foresight and intellectual complexity that most likely typified early human relatives." More speculation about 'early human relatives' presented as fact.
I appreciate the link to the article. It was fascinating.
I do NOT care to open another discussion about evolution. Done to death. What I found fascinating was the article and the WAY these things were presented. Fabulously done. Deceptive. Speculative. But very effective.
theists use flawed logic to trump facts the fact that some truth is contrary to your fairtales makes the truth Deceptive and Speculative on your small flat world sorry but the fact that our Closest living relatives are chimps and no other animal has a closer DNA match at 98.+ then chimps
If you didn't care to open another discussion, then why did you? Or is this your attempt to get in the last word?
Hi Steve.
Thanks for asking so I could clarify. I didn't want to turn this into another discussion of EVOLUTION. Because we have already had that one multiple times. rayb asked what we thought of the REPORT. What I thought was interesting was the REPORTING style.
Also, thanks for asking, but no, I haven't changed. I never have been nor will I ever be someone that has to get the last word in. And I know you knew that, but sometimes people change and so you just were checking. But, no, I haven't changed to that and didn't intentionally mean it to come across that way.
rayb, real christians NEVER believed in a small, flat world. A lot of what YOU call christians did during the time period you are speaking of. The REAL christians believed the bible, which if read in the normal sense, indicated that the world was not flat, even when the scientists of the day said it was.
I don't care enough to look up the statistics because I don't care to argue whether chimpanzees are the closest. And I, of course, wouldn't argue that they are living. I just dispute that they are relatives.
I love reading on the internet. Cars, sports, computer stuff. A little news. Love pennock's. I don't read "wacked cult sites". I don't read "cult sites"--wacked or unwacked. I don't read creation science sites. I don't read religious sites.
I don't mind so much pointing out your multiple errors. I don't mind responding to your erroneous assumptions. I do feel compelled to do it so you can't try to put words in my mouth, and then other readers on here think that your imagination and accusation is my reality.
and whether or not one admits to evolution, the "living relative" idea is still valid in a genetic and taxonomic sense.
I have no problem with being a relative in that sense. Genetic organization. Taxonomy in general. Good point and again, thanks for opportunity to precisely clarify.
Just that rayb and the article authors presenting the information in an evolution context, I wasn't willing to accede relation as fact.
People that have strong pre-existing biases (and not in any way implying wrong or unjustified biases. Lots of years to decide.) can get huffy pretty fast in discussions like this. Not making any accusations (and certainly, Euterpe, not directly to you in anyway. Just bringing it up in this post.). But just to make completely clear--I'm just discussing in this thread. I'm not arguing or attacking or having any attitude.
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04:58 PM
PFF
System Bot
Indyellowgt Member
Posts: 1950 From: Alfred,Maine,Fiero Country,USA Registered: Dec 2000
These "discussions" never go anywhere,because the people who believe in the fake guy in the sky,will never,ever allow themselves to believe that evolution has any truth to it... We are just stardust,plain and simple,kids....
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05:28 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
These "discussions" never go anywhere,because the people who believe in the fake guy in the sky,will never,ever allow themselves to believe that evolution has any truth to it... We are just stardust,plain and simple,kids....
not entirely true. there are many people - scientists among them - who are comfortable with the theory of evolution, and also are religious. some people who are religious have a doctrinal objection to it, but while they do seem to be particularly vocal, they are by no means universal.
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06:02 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Indyellowgt: These "discussions" never go anywhere,because the people who believe in the fake guy in the sky,will never,ever allow themselves to believe that evolution has any truth to it... We are just stardust,plain and simple,kids....
I believe in the fake guy in the sky
Evolution is a fact. We have evidence of it.
While I won't rule out the possibility life (here and otherwise) may have started by God saying "let there be protozoa".. it might also have started up on it's own.
And of course, you enlightened souls that feel compelled to make comments like "fake guy in the sky" are SOOOOO much more open minded.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Indyellowgt:
These "discussions" never go anywhere,because the people who believe in the fake guy in the sky,will never,ever allow themselves to believe that evolution has any truth to it... We are just stardust,plain and simple,kids....
Do to a recent development by chimpanzees who have started using spears to hunt bush babies, the bush babies have retaliated with a cloaking device. Researchers were stunned to learn recently that the chimps had this kind of tool knowledge. "We are in complete shock that the bush babies had this kind of technology. This puts evolutiuon in a whole new perspective. Now we need to see what the chimps will do next."says researcher Dick Hurts from the Peckerwood University.
Several counties along with the US are sending negotiators in to meet with the bush baby research and development teams in hopes of using this technology in the battlefield. This could revolutionize the way wars are fought and there is a need to keep this invention out of terroist hands.
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10:17 PM
PFF
System Bot
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
Beware, indeed. [QUOTE] Feb. 22,2007 [AP] Chimps Warned of Sanctions
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned West African Chimps on Thursday that they will face further punishment and isolation if they forge ahead with efforts to develop a stick-enrichment program, but she said the United States and other powers are prepared to restart talks aimed at ending the standoff if the Chimps suspend their most controversial spearmaking activities.
The remarks came hours after the International Simple Tools Agency issued a report saying Chimps had defied yet another Security Council demand to halt the multistep spearmaking practice, documented by United Nations weapons inspectors in Senegal who spent years gaining the chimpanzees’ trust.
Russia, China and several European countries have become increasingly uncomfortable with the Bush administration’s positions on apes as tensions between the savannah and Washington have risen in recent months. President Bush recently authorized the U.S. military to capture or kill Chimpanzee intelligence and paramilitary agents in Iraq; the administration has said such agents are involved in attacks against U.S. military forces.
The United States, Britain and France favor imposing a series of additional penalties against chimps........ [QUOTE]
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 02-23-2007).]
we've known for some time that chimps - and other animals - use tools. what's interesting here is that they learn, and figure out how to use different, perhaps more sophisticated, kinds of tools.
And if you are like me and frequent some of the welding forums, they will tell you that any trained chimp can mig weld. So I guess they can use tools.
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10:29 PM
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
ok, ok, lets not get on a chimp bashing rampage here. not all chimps are bad. its just a small sect that have developed these tools of mass poking. most chimps are good banana eating and poo slinging primates.
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10:34 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
ok, ok, lets not get on a chimp bashing rampage here. not all chimps are bad. its just a small sect that have developed these tools of mass poking. most chimps are good banana eating and poo slinging primates.
If they're so good, as YOU say, then why don't they wear PANTS? I rest my case. The only good chimp is a dead chimp. Give them a spear, and before long..... Do you want THIS to happen to you??
Would you rather fight them on the savannahs of Africa, or on our very own doorstep? ------------------ * USA Presidential election results, 2000:
G W Bush - 50,456,002........ Al Gore - 50,999,897 [Infoplease]
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 02-23-2007).]
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10:44 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
