quote Originally posted by fierobear: AGW is *religion*. You can't argue religions with logic.

AL Gore is the Jesus & CO2 is the Devil

anyways - how about some worst case scenarios? no matter what the cause
so far, a 20 foot sea level increase has been proposed, due to greenland/other glaciers melting
and, increased huricane strengths - especially in the Gulf of Mexico

quote Originally posted by fierobear: In other words, not matter WHAT the result, they are right about global warming. AGW is *religion*. You can't argue religions with logic.

Seems that Ray has a fairy tale to believe in, now.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Seems that Ray has a fairy tale to believe in, now.

Yup. Fascinating how he acts and talks *exactly* the same way as the religious people do whom he so roundly criticizes.

This debate of Global Warming resembling a religion, reminds me of that 2 part South Park episode where Cartman freezes himself because he cant wait for the Wii. And the future society fights over the answer to the ultimate scientific question. Oh Science!

Speaking of Global Cooling...

"More troubling facts for the global warming movement. The government has released temperature data for February. Do the statistics show the Earth continues to warm at a troubling rate? Is certain doom accelerating in the environment, ready to melt the polar ice caps and cause California to fall into the ocean? Will winter soon be relegated to the ash heap of history, with the entire world enveloped in a global warming-induced massive temperature hike? Uh..no.

As a matter of fact, according to the National Environmental Satellite, Data and Information Service, the average temperature in the month of February fell almost 2 degrees. What, you say? Is this over last year? The last 5 years? Compared to the last 10 or 20? Nope. When compared with the average over the 100-year period between 1901 and 2000. In fact, we've just experienced the 34th coldest February in the last 113 years.

This is a long-standing problem with the global warming hype. The facts and figures don't line up with the hysteria. Just as there may be data that shows the Earth is warming, there is plenty of information to the contrary. But anything that doesn't square with the environmental extremists is ignored and not reported. And that's why global warming has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with politics."

From Nealz Nuze web page.
(Text changes daily. Check the archives after today.)

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: silly person.....its winter maybe you should find out what global warming actually is. actually, I think many should. 1st of: its NOT a catastrophic thing. its not like 150 degree summers temps. its not 90 degree winters. its not even 5 degrees difference from "normal" temps. the problem is nature keeps a tight balance. systems like the oceans conveyor system, which steady's/dampen global temps is affected. this is what keep the northern areas from totally freezing during winter. so, in fact - if global warming is taking effect - the northern areas will have COLDER than normal winter spike temps - especially ones near the oceans - like Maine. this is why every ice age is proceeded by a period of warming. and - Ice age isnt as catastrophic either. the world is not a ball of ice. anyways - no matter what is causing global warming - it is NOT anything most people even need to be concerned about. and, the ice age that follows - again - NO BIG DEAL.

what a smart person

which goes right back to the original post....

the doom people will soon be here to find holes in that too. They only believe the facts that back them up and ignore everything else...like even looking out the window, lol.

non =news flash it is cold in winter
local temps mean NOTHING
AVG GLOBAL WARMING will produce wild weather

GLOBAL AVERAGE TEMPERATURE FOR JANUARY HIGHEST ON RECORD, U.S. TEMPERATURE NEAR AVERAGE FOR MONTH

NOAA image of January 2007 global temperature anomalies.Feb. 16, 2007 — The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the highest for any January on record, according to scientists at the NOAA National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. The most unusually warm conditions were in the mid- and high-latitude land areas of the Northern Hemisphere. In the contiguous United States, the monthly mean temperature was near average in January. (Click NOAA image for larger view of January 2007 global temperature anomalies. Please credit “NOAA.”)

Global Temperatures
The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 1.53 degrees F (0.85 degrees C) warmer than the 20th century average of 53.6 degrees F (12.0 degrees C) for January based on preliminary data, surpassing the previous record set in 2002 at 1.28 degrees F (0.71 degrees C) above the average. Last month’s record was greatly influenced by a record high land-surface temperature, which was 3.40 degrees F (1.89 degrees C) warmer than average. Separately, the global ocean-surface temperature was fourth warmest in the 128-year series, approximately 0.1 degrees F (0.05 degrees C) cooler than the record established during the very strong El Niño episode in 1998.

btw

http://www.noaanews.noaa.go...l-temp-anomalies.jpg
http://www.noaanews.noaa.go...n2007-temp-ranks.jpg

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

I'm in the middle of reading Micheal Chrichton's "State of Fear". He thinks the whole glo-bull warming thing is BS as well. Although the story is fiction, he's done his research, and all the charts, comments, and dialog are backed up with references to the scientific journals they came from. The dialog on both sides is accurate to dialog I've been having with my friend (a "supporter"). He's a Chrichton fan luckily, and I suggested he get this book without telling him specifically what it's about.

He may not change his mind, but at least he may see the differences between pollution, weather and the THEORY of global warming, and at least open his mind to "there may be more to this than I know. Too many people get all three mixed up and it's also very handy when the "news" can blame EVERYTHING on global warming.

- a wet spring in Alberta - global warming
- a dry hot summer in Alberta the same year - global warming
- warmer than normal winter (December in Ontario) - global warming
- colder than normal winter - (January/February in Ontario) - you guessed it, global warming too

Of course, when the prairies have a bumper crop of wheat because of the wet spring and dry hot summer it will be because of "perfect weather" NOT because of global warming. Global warming is only responsible for BAD things. And as we know, only bad events make headlines. Stock market drops 400 points, it's on the FRONT Page. Stock market gains 200 points, it's in the Business Section.

The retort of "supporters" is always "oh, THOSE scientists (with differing studies) have been bought off" and they automatically dismiss everything while hanging on to "faith". People who think it's BS have often read BOTH sides before thinking it's crap.
Chrichton has more money than some countries. He has no need to be bought off. His book would also be a best seller "whatever side of the fence he was on". He could just have easily had the story fueling the urgency to stop global warming - but that would not have fit the facts he found in his research.

Whatever side you're on - I'd suggest reading "State of Fear" (no I don't get a comission LOL). It's a pretty good story woven in there.

so, you completely dismiss global warming entirely?
I find this stance even harder to swallow than people causing global warming.

global warming is happeneing. has happened before, and will happen again. saying global warming doesnt exist seems...well....
it subtle, and its sloooooow. without looking for it, you'd never find it. and, thats another point - just the shear NON issue of this.
anyways - the cause of it is the only issue. being it happened before, when people DIDNT burn massive amounts of coal & oil, its a pretty safe bet - this just happens - and we can do nothing positive or negative.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, you completely dismiss global warming entirely? I find this stance even harder to swallow than people causing global warming.

I'm not saying that the average temps aren't climbing. I'm saying that

1. we don't know that humans are the *total* cause, or even the *majority* cause
2. the earth has warmed, and cooled, SIGNIFICANTLY in the past, with absolutely NO human intervention

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, you completely dismiss global warming entirely? I find this stance even harder to swallow than people causing global warming.

Not at all. In fact, we've had "global warming" continuously for the last 5000 years at which time most of North America was covered by ice. Present day Canada was covered by ice more than 1000 meters / 3,200 feet thick! If it wasn't for global warming, we couldn't be living in Canada right now.

I'm not doubting warming may be happening, but the EXTENT to which man is responsible (greatly exaggerated I think), the thought we can stop it (wishful thinking), and "the end of the world" scenarios are what I seriously doubt.

quote Originally posted by fierosound: Not at all.

it just seemed that post above was saying "global warming is BS" altogether, not just that the greenhouse gasses is BS

Oh my gosh!
Mars is Melting!
Evil President Bush must be causing Global Warming on Mars too!

Mars is Melting
http://science.nasa.gov/hea.../07aug_southpole.htm

Sorry sometimes I just can't help the sarcasm.

EVEN IF anyone buys global warming, its not going to do a thing until way after were gone. If mankind does last that long, by then we'll have the ability to go somewhere else. It was 20* last nite..............and today global warming made it go up to 60* yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-09-2007).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: EVEN IF anyone buys global warming, its not going to do a thing until way after were gone. If mankind does last that long, by then we'll have the ability to go somewhere else. It was 20* last nite..............and today global warming made it go up to 60* yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

and, even more funny - global warming may actually be done next year, and off we go starting into the next ice age - which also wont take hold for quite sometime. NO-ONE KNOWS. thats what makes it so much fun.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: and, even more funny - global warming may actually be done next year, and off we go starting into the next ice age - which also wont take hold for quite sometime. NO-ONE KNOWS. thats what makes it so much fun.

...and not so funny - either way, the Global Warming crowd will shout "see! we told you __________ would happen!"

OK if you must be consistent on the fight to stop Global Warming, then you must become Vegan.
This comes from your fellow Left Wingers PETA and the UN.

"food generate more greenhouse gases than all cars and trucks combined, and that (according to a recent University of Chicago study), switching to a vegan diet is more effective in countering global warming than switching from a standard American car to a Prius"

Clearing a Few Things Up for Al Gore
http://blog.peta.org/archiv...3/clearing_a_few.php

So if Al Gore and all you anti-CO2 activist, better step up to the plat and live by example.

Give up your meat or give up the argument.

quote Originally posted by xtn668: OK if you must be consistent on the fight to stop Global Warming, then you must become Vegan. This comes from your fellow Left Wingers PETA and the UN.

cant we just put our air conditioners on "high", and open the windows?
bwahahahahaha

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: cant we just put our air conditioners on "high", and open the windows? bwahahahahaha

Sure if you are an Evil Conservative, and can afford too. It might even be cheaper than buying Al Gores Carbon Credits.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: and, even more funny - global warming may actually be done next year, and off we go starting into the next ice age - which also wont take hold for quite sometime. ...

...and it will still be blamed on the evil right-wingers, SUV drivers, electricity producers, electricity consumers, industrialists, oil producers, meat eaters, cabbage and broccoli eaters, bearded-clam eaters, cows, sheep, goats, Britney Spears, P.diddy, The Seventh Day Adventists, Osama Bin Ladin, George Bush, and six unidentified dogs in Missouri.

And it will still be bullshit.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: cant we just put our air conditioners on "high", and open the windows? bwahahahahaha

Just take and install window air conditioners backwards so they blow all the cold air out! This should not only counter global warming, but also create a drier more hospitable atmosphere

Brad

The Great Global Warming Swindle - BBC Documentary here: http://video.google.com/vid...=9005566792811497638

quote Originally posted by fierosound: The Great Global Warming Swindle - BBC Documentary here: http://video.google.com/vid...=9005566792811497638

We should send that link to everyone we know. Pass the word. This bullshit has to stop.

God help me! I just watched part of the HBO propaganda on Global Warming, I almost had to scratch my eyes out. That link has saved my sanity.

Hmmm...Colder than they expected!

I especially like this part:
The explorers had planned to call in regular updates to school groups by satellite phone, and had planned online posts with photographic evidence of global warming. In contrast to Bancroft's 1986 trek across the Arctic with fellow Minnesota explorer Will Steger, this time she and Arnesen were prepared to don body suits and swim through areas where polar ice has melted.

Atwood said there was some irony that a trip to call attention to global warming was scuttled in part by extreme cold temperatures.


hahahahahahaha...they thought they'd be swimming in the melted Arctic Ocean! Too funny.
Even the New York Times is getting into the skeptic act...quoting...

“Nowhere does Mr. Gore tell his audience that all of the phenomena that he describes fall within the natural range of environmental change on our planet,” Robert M. Carter, a marine geologist at James Cook University in Australia, said in a September blog. “Nor does he present any evidence that climate during the 20th century departed discernibly from its historical pattern of constant change.”

In October, Dr. Easterbrook made similar points at the geological society meeting in Philadelphia. He hotly disputed Mr. Gore’s claim that “our civilization has never experienced any environmental shift remotely similar to this” threatened change.

Nonsense, Dr. Easterbrook told the crowded session. He flashed a slide that showed temperature trends for the past 15,000 years. It highlighted 10 large swings, including the medieval warm period. These shifts, he said, were up to “20 times greater than the warming in the past century.”

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 03-13-2007).]

It amazes how people that have just enough education to think that because they have gone to college, they know everything.

The economy is going to hell because of attitudes like this.

We are not going to change the climate of the earth no matter what we do, short a of nuclear holocaust.

Sometimes I think that if we stopped listening to these doom and gloom scientist and told them that they are full of **** . Go get a real job, work for a living. Instead of trying to scare people into believing in what they think they know.

Sorry but I think some people have way to much education for their own good.

Lets see, in every era the scientists have said things that they knew to be true, was proven to be false later.

Examples

The world is flat.

If man was meant to fly they would have wings.

The earth is the center of the universe.

And many other just plain stupid statements. That were later proven wrong. They have to much education and not enough common sense.

Nothing we do is going to save us from the idiotic ramblings of these over educated people.

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

has anyone worked on any ideas which involve the "globe" internal temps? just seems internal temps would be much more of a factor. here in Detroit, Michigan - the frost line is roghly 6 feet. at 10 feet - the temp is 60 degrees. even in the dead coldest day of february. it just seems this would be WAAAAAY more of a determining factor of global temps than the miles of atmosphere, which will take any temp you give it. does anyone know what percentage of Earth's heat energy actually comes from the sun?

Ive often thought of that too....what percentage of world heat is generated in the core. I cant see how that can be ignored. If you have a high heat source, even in something solid , it has to radiate that heat out at some point. I know im not holding a metal ball if its got a red hot molten interior.

the link ( http://video.google.com/vid...=9005566792811497638 ) hasnt worked all day. Says ' unavailable '.....wonder if Gorites sabatoged it....

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: the link ( http://video.google.com/vid...=9005566792811497638 ) hasnt worked all day. Says ' unavailable '.....wonder if Gorites sabatoged it....

Here you go, this one works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU