The study estimates that marijuana production, at a value of $35.8 billion, exceeds the combined value of corn ($23.3 billion) and wheat ($7.5 billion).
FIRST you have to buy their "estimates" of marijuana value of $35.8 Billion and that's something that if they throw a large enough number out most people can't comprehend it.
Wheat 2.16 Billion Bushels, $5.03 per bushel, $10.86 Billion (45% higher than the article) Corn 11.81 Billion Bushels, $3.65 per bushel, $43.10 Billion (85% higher than the article) Soybeans 3.12 Billion Bushels, $6.48 per bushel, $20.68 Billion (not even mentioned in the article)
Again, people, think about what is being put out there. Yes, I know a lot of people use pot, but it's still an underground activity. How can the PRODUCTION IN THE US even come close to corn, beans, or even wheat? The acres aren't there, the production capability isn't there, and if it was being grown in that kind of quantity then there wouldn't be a need to import it.
Whenever you read "reports" like this sit back and ask yourself......"is this even feasible, possible, or logical?"
"It's still a drug," Courtney says. "Just because it's a good cash crop doesn't mean you should legalize and tax it."
"It's not these cute mom-and-pop bong shops anymore," Courtney continued. "It's violent drug-trafficking groups that are doing all these grows."
Local marijuana growers, he says, are the tentacles of international drug-trafficking organizations that bring weapons, violence and a slew of other drugs into the market.
Oh come on!
If it were legalized, prices would come down, and it would be unprofitable to smuggle it across our borders. They'd might as well be growing lettuce.
The war on drugs has cost us an estimated half-trillion dollars since 1980. The question is, are we any closer to "winning" than we were in 1980?
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08:38 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
its only the largest cash crop because it illegal. if it were legal - the price would drop like a rock. there is a reason its also called "weed" - because thats exactly how easy it is to grow. well, quality plants do need some help - but overall - nothing - just grow it. like the classic "ditch weed". this is weed that really grow in a ditch, deposited from roaches & beaners being tossed out the window of a car.
theres still some old pic's from back when it was legit to grow hemp. awesome seeing a pair of dudes wrestling a christmas tree size pot plant into the back of a truck....mmmm.....
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08:40 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
When I was in Tennessee it was huge, hell the local sheriff in Shelbyville got busted for using jail inmates to harvest his little plantation.
Not to mention all the inside growers that no one can even count.
If you think about the amounts, maybe there is more of the legal crops grown, but the cash value of pot is higher per bushel, lb, how ever you want to compare it.
Granted we may grow more corn, wheat, and all the other legal crops, but the value of an acre of pot is so much higher than 10 times the value of an acre of any legal crop.
Granted you don’t hear about the big harvests of pot like the sheriffs in Shelbyville, TN. But it’s there.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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08:48 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I don't use, grow, or buy the stuff. You people that "know", how much does it cost? And I'm not talking about how much you pay for a little baggie, I'm talking about what it's worth to the wholesaler because that's what I have in my post for the price of wheat, corn, and beans, the wholesale price. If you're going to use the "street" price, then I'm going to use the price of corn in a box of Kellogs Corn Flakes or the price of wheat in a loaf of bread (the consumer products).
IOW, I want you folks that think this is a reasonable claim to think through and validate your opinions TO ME. Why? Because when I see 10 states nearly covered in Corn (and we're not talking about puny (in size) states like Rhode Island), I know it's simply not a possibility that much pot is grown. It's unreasonable and illogical. Anyone that thinks it IS true has never driven through corn country and seen field after field after field of corn and beans for thousands (THOUSANDS) of miles.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
I have to disagree John.
When I was in Tennessee it was huge, hell the local sheriff in Shelbyville got busted for using jail inmates to harvest his little plantation.
Not to mention all the inside growers that no one can even count.
If you think about the amounts, maybe there is more of the legal crops grown, but the cash value of pot is higher per bushel, lb, how ever you want to compare it.
Granted we may grow more corn, wheat, and all the other legal crops, but the value of an acre of pot is so much higher than 10 times the value of an acre of any legal crop.
Granted you don’t hear about the big harvests of pot like the sheriffs in Shelbyville, TN. But it’s there.
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09:05 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
I can’t tell you how much it costs now days, sorry.
I really can’t tell you the now wholesale price, never really got into that when I smoked.
But I can tell you when you see all those corn fields in all those states, there is a lot of pot growing in there between the corn. Maybe not buy the corn grower, but it’s there non the less.
I must agree with the price variables between the way the crops are priced.
Pot when confiscated is always given the street value, price per oz or bag, not the price per lb or acre when found that way. If they find 20 or 30 plants they figure it by gross weight, not harvest weight.
Which you know all to well is a lot different John. And so do the people who grow the pot.
But for a reference point from over 20 years ago.
If I bought a lb of pot at say $2,000 I could make at least 25 to 50% profit.
Now that was over 20 years ago, I have no idea what it is now days.
So you may be right John but can you at least understand the idea that legalizing, taxing it, would not be a bad thing?
It does have a medicinal value.
What other drugs that are legal today have a medicinal value. Alcohol, Cigarettes, they are drugs to.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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09:20 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Wheat 2.16 Billion Bushels, $5.03 per bushel, $10.86 Billion (45% higher than the article) Corn 11.81 Billion Bushels, $3.65 per bushel, $43.10 Billion (85% higher than the article) Soybeans 3.12 Billion Bushels, $6.48 per bushel, $20.68 Billion (not even mentioned in the article)
mmmm......bushel of bud...... somehow, I think it would be a little over $10....lol maybe 3 more zeroz.....and, that if its basic....some of them $10 seeds could shoot this bushel to 6 digits.
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09:43 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
.....(Vision of FIero door coming open and smoke billowing out Cheech and Chong style)....... LOL
Back in the 70’s when I did smoke We used to go out to lunch. As many people as would fit in who evers car was closest to the door.
Make a package store run, as soon as we left the gate the joints got lit, 5 guys, 5 joints. When we got to the package store everyone would pile out and get, lunch at the pizza store and beer.
Got back in the car and lit 5 more joints, opened 5 beers. Got back to the parking lot and lit 5 more and drank 5 more.
So by the time we opened the doors Cheech & Chong had nothing on us.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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01:41 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
A large percentage of domestic cash crops are "Gorilla Grow". Grown on state land, national parks, etc. The benifets are no chance of confiscation of personal property, well hidden, and the grower can always claim he was just "walking through". For the record, the only crops that are ever included in Government estimates, are the ones that are busted. About 10% of the total yearly production.
Most, if not all, domestic growers are in no way connected to organized crime or conglomerates. They are not criminals, thieves, mafia, gangsters, or member of gangs. They are simple producers. Who sell to suppliers, which are local men much like themselves. From there is where it enters the shady side of the buisness. The supplier takes it to the city, where it is sold to a distribitor, who may or may not be connected to criminal elements. Which is then given or sold to street-level dealers, which work for or are connected to the above criminal element.
Legalizing it would cut out all the bad men in the equasion. A lisenced supplier would pick it up directly from the producer, and then sell it to a lisenced distribitor. The profit margin would no longer be there for the criminal.
The farmer just wants to grow a cash crop. Should he care what his crop is used for? Should his heart break becouse someone died from slamming their car into a tree becouse they were drunk, after making moonshine from the corn they bought from him? "I only sell corn for eatin', not for squeezin'!
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-19-2006).]
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02:15 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Pyrthian: theres still some old pic's from back when it was legit to grow hemp. awesome seeing a pair of dudes wrestling a christmas tree size pot plant into the back of a truck....mmmm.....
I've never smoked weed - and other than seeing it "wild" I've rarely even seen the stuff. Therefore all I have to add to this discussion is the following:
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04:47 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I'm STILL waiting for someone to tell me what pot costs. Curious, since several of you have openly admitted to using it that nobody knows (or will say) what it costs them.
I can assure you with 100% confidence that the amount of pot grown between the rows of corn is virtually non-existent. How do I know this? The same herbicides that the corn growers are using to GROW that corn are death on marijuana. It's actually quite easy to kill with chemicals as basic as 2,4-D.
It's fascinating to me that some of you think I don't even know what it looks like or how pervasive it is. It's a weed in my pastures and we spray for it every year. Trust me, I know how big the plants get and how much is on one. It grows wild here. From what I'm told, the wild stuff isn't any good for getting a "buzz", but it's still harvested and used for filler because it stretches out the good stuff and lets them roll more joints with less of the expensive stuff.
To whoever said I was "missing out", if I have to engage in growing illegal drugs to "save" the farm it's not worth saving anyway.
My point in challenging this isn't to make an argument pro or con for it being illegal or legal. To be honest, I don't care. If it was legal I still wouldn't touch it. Going to concerts in the '70's of The Doobie Brothers and Jethro Tull more than made me aware of the effects it had on me in the form of splitting headaches and watering eyes. Thanks, but no.
My point is that when BS stories like this make the rounds nobody stops to think if this is reasonable or not. A single 160 acre field of corn will grow 24,000 bushels of corn and you see field after field after field of the stuff. Put whatever ridiculous value you want on pot and the sheer lack of acres on which it's grown (because it has to be done in secret) will indicate that it's ludicrous.
Besides that, why would you believe the claim of the $$ value that the person in the article was making on pot when he wasn't even close on the value of the legal, well documented crops? If he can't run a calculator and do basic research (that took me all of 3 minutes to do), why would you expect him to have done more in depth research on what the value of a hidden, illegal crop is worth?
John Stricker
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05:08 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by jstricker: I'm STILL waiting for someone to tell me what pot costs. Curious, since several of you have openly admitted to using it that nobody knows (or will say) what it costs them.
No, it's not broken. That's not what I asked for. I asked for what wholesale prices were, just like grains. Is your reading comprehension broken?
From your link, it says mid-grade pot retails for about $1500/pound. You have to assume that since this is an illegal drug that wholesale markup is at least 100%. Heck, Wally World makes that on legal stuff. So $750/pound. The claim is "$35.8 Billion". At $750/pound, that comes to nearly 50,000,000 pounds. There are ~300,000,000 people in the US so you're making the case that there is enough marijuana grown in the US for every man, woman, and child to smoke nearly 1/4 pound per year?
I personally find that to be highly unlikely, but whatever you want to believe, have at it.
I could go buy a pound or upper-mid level for $1000. Or a 5 gram bag of top shelf for $100. In the heavy smoking days I could have consumed an once a day with one smoking buddy. The goverment greatly inflates numbers in the drug war except how many Americans are actualy smoking it, how much it really costs, and how many people are in jail for simple posession.
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06:04 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
And I used to sell wheat in 1 lb bags to a couple of health food stores for $2 which makes my price per bushel $120. That has no basis in the real world for what we're talking about and neither does your example.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Compare the prices for 1lb vs the 1/8oz ("retail" qty's sold on the street). Price/lb for 1/8oz is $3840
growers get 2500-4000 a lb, it retails for 300 to 500 an oz for high quality domestic more in smaller bags it is grown from clones not seed as the best stuff is not allowed to go to seed they use cuttings and root growth chit to start the little ones
avg user can burn a 1/8 to a 1/2 oz a week times 12 to 49 million people in the USA and some is exported too
low end 10 million lbs at 3000 each = $30,000,000,000 to the growers they said 35,8 not that unreal and maybe alot more
Originally posted by jstricker: And I used to sell wheat in 1 lb bags to a couple of health food stores for $2 which makes my price per bushel $120. That has no basis in the real world for what we're talking about and neither does your example. John Stricker
John don’t blow a gasket man. Breath deeply, Everyone has already admitted to the government over inflating the price of weed.
Some have come up with examples of what you asked for. Myself included, be it from years ago.
Problem is you don’t beleive us. You can take 1 lb and turn lets say the $2,000 it cost you to buy into 2 or 3 or even 4 times what it cost you. It just depends on how you distribute it.
Just like your example of selling it to a health food store. You take a bushel and cut it up into 1 lb bags and sell it to the health food store for 10 times what it cost you.
Plus now days most weed is now grown indoors, under lamps. I know people who grow even now in rooms in their homes, small green houses, and others who even rent entire houses just to grow weed in.
Because of the high cost of renting, electricity these are not the most cost effective ways to do this, but they do it none the less.
If you grow one acre of corn, what do you get, much harvest. Remember it is hard to compare the 2 crops. As I said One plant in ideal conditions can harvest anywhere from 1 lb to 10 lbs. Just how much corn or wheat do you get off 1 wheat plant?
One indoor grow room can support 50 plants or more in a 10 X 10 room. Using my example of just 1 lb per plant of premium buds worth lets say $2,000 per lb = $100,000 per a 100 square ft room.
Now put that same amount of plants outside and that 1 lb per plant can be 10 lbs or more. Now 10 lbs X 50 plants =500 lbs X $2,000 per = $1,000,000
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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07:00 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by jstricker: And I used to sell wheat in 1 lb bags to a couple of health food stores for $2 which makes my price per bushel $120. That has no basis in the real world for what we're talking about and neither does your example.
John Stricker
The difference is, nobody is going to be stupid enough to buy/sell pot in "warehouse wholesale quantities". 1lb IS wholesale for all intents and purposes.
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07:08 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by jstricker: My point in challenging this isn't to make an argument pro or con for it being illegal or legal. To be honest, I don't care. If it was legal I still wouldn't touch it. Going to concerts in the '70's of The Doobie Brothers and Jethro Tull more than made me aware of the effects it had on me in the form of splitting headaches and watering eyes. Thanks, but no. John Stricker
I got to ask this and it is totaly off topic folks forgive me.
John you went to see, I mean you actually paid for tickets to see the Doobie Brothers?
Tull I can see, but the Doobie brothers? John I wouldn’t admit that on pain of death.
I mean don’t get me wrong here but those 2 groups are so far apart I can’t even comprehend what you were smoking, or drinking when you went to see the Doobies.
Come on John be honest, you had to be smoking, drinking, something.
Come on you can tell us, we won’t hold it against you.
Sorry to all but this was just getting to heated. It needed to be cooled down.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: How often can you turn around a crop of corn? How often can you turn around a crop of "Herb"? How many crops can you harvest in one season?
3 to 4 months inside, = 3 or 4 harvests per year.
Outside, one per year.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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07:26 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I don't think you're following my reasoning and I do believe the prices you are telling me, but you're telling me the end user, full retail prices and that's not what is being used for the prices for the other crops.
I'm not blowing a gasket and I'd be making the same comments if we were talking about widgets and thingies when the numbers aren't realistic.
The author of the article/study/whatever is taking the most expensive, full retail price of one product (dope) and claiming it to be the largest cash crop when compared against other products which he's valuing at the cheapest possible wholesale price.
THAT is my point. It's a disingenuous and inaccurate use of the data. The fact that it happens to be pot is simply a reflection of him trying to make a point about that particular substance. I agree, it is hard to compare the two crops. *I* didn't try to compare them, the guy in the article did, and he did it poorly and dishonestly.
John Stricker
PS: I'm also more than a little skeptical of the 10# per plant figure, but that's neither here nor there. Why? Well, in good hay for our area, we can raise about 2,500 # of forage per acre. That's about 1/20 or a pound per square foot. In cane feed, which is planted solid, this year (an admittedly dry year) I grew 7,300 # per acre of wet feed. (3 1/2 tons). That figures out to 1/6 of a pound per square foot. The marijuana plants around here grow to about 18" in diameter, if left alone, so that's less than 2 square feet of area. My feed was a little over 6' tall solidly covering the field. You guys are talking about JUST THE BUDS.
Sorry, not buying it. But whatever you guys want it to be, it's cool by me. Just don't miss my point that just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean you shouldn't stop to think if it's at all reasonable.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123: John don’t blow a gasket man. Breath deeply, Everyone has already admitted to the government over inflating the price of weed.
Some have come up with examples of what you asked for. Myself included, be it from years ago.
Problem is you don’t beleive us. You can take 1 lb and turn lets say the $2,000 it cost you to buy into 2 or 3 or even 4 times what it cost you. It just depends on how you distribute it.
Just like your example of selling it to a health food store. You take a bushel and cut it up into 1 lb bags and sell it to the health food store for 10 times what it cost you.
Plus now days most weed is now grown indoors, under lamps. I know people who grow even now in rooms in their homes, small green houses, and others who even rent entire houses just to grow weed in.
Because of the high cost of renting, electricity these are not the most cost effective ways to do this, but they do it none the less.
If you grow one acre of corn, what do you get, much harvest. Remember it is hard to compare the 2 crops. As I said One plant in ideal conditions can harvest anywhere from 1 lb to 10 lbs. Just how much corn or wheat do you get off 1 wheat plant?
One indoor grow room can support 50 plants or more in a 10 X 10 room. Using my example of just 1 lb per plant of premium buds worth lets say $2,000 per lb = $100,000 per a 100 square ft room.
Now put that same amount of plants outside and that 1 lb per plant can be 10 lbs or more. Now 10 lbs X 50 plants =500 lbs X $2,000 per = $1,000,000
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07:27 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by Vonov: Sorry, just couldn't resist...lol Happy holidays (some WAY happier than others!) everyone!!! (Anyone who wants to help trim the tree, feel welcome to do so, lol!)
Does this look like 2’ wide X 18”
Inside plants are smaller yes that’s the one pound size.
Now that plant in the picture is of a outside plant, can you see 10 pounds in that?
And for an outside plant that is small. I have seen them 20’ tall.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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07:34 PM
Finally_Mine_86_GT Member
Posts: 4809 From: Hyde Park, New York Registered: Sep 2006
1lb mid grade weed right now goes for roughly $1200. as for the high stuff = $3000 - $3600 a lb. pending on who you get it from. (not from me... i still know some people!)
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07:48 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12351 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
oooh, ooh! i know nothing about the actual topic, but i have lots of unrelated experience and an uninformed opinion. that makes me an expert! you guys are all wrong! need proof? dont bother with facts, i dont use them, so you dont need them. anyway if i disagree with them, i'll ignore or dismiss them. i said so, that should be enough. !
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07:50 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
I don't know. John's logic sounds solid. Here is a thought though. If weed is not the largest cash crop would it be if it were legal ?
Yes. Because if legal all that wasted hemp fiber could be sold too. The numbers of home growers would increase a little but most pot heads cant be arsed to pland, prune, wated, clip clones, plant clones and water everyday. You can grow a few plants twice a year cloned off a good mother plant with some dirt a few pots and two or more tube type floresant grow bulbs. You can keep a mother plant in a state of vegitative growth for up wards of 3 years. Whn it can no longer take it force it to flower and take one of its clones as a new mother plant.
Everyone has already admitted to the government over inflating the price of weed.
!
