Some info that was just posted by Consumer Reports on most/least reliable Sport/Sporty 2007 model cars:
Most reliable (Best score first) Lexus SC Toyota Camry Solara (4-cyl.) Subaru Impreza WRX Honda S2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse* 2006 Mini Cooper hatchback Least reliable (Worst score first) Pontiac Solstice* Mercedes-Benz SL Mercedes-Benz CLK Mercedes-Benz SLK (V6) Chevrolet Corvette Porsche 911 Carrera Ford Mustang (V6)
Pontiac takes a jump with their new 2 seater and winds up with the most unreliable of all the sports cars...
But take a look at the trend, the most reliable cars are exclusively imports, the least reliable are about 50/50 import/domestic.Domestics aren't doing so good, the Chevy Cobalt was rated the least reliable of the small cars.
I find amusing how MB has 3 of the top 7 most unreliable sports cars, as well as 3 of the top 6 most unreliable luxury cars.
Anybody who thinks a 4 cyl Toyota Camry is a sports car whether or not it has a convetable top is not what I would consider a great source of automotive info.
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09:54 AM
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
Anybody who thinks a 4 cyl Toyota Camry is a sports car whether or not it has a convetable top is not what I would consider a great source of automotive info.
Consumer Reports have always had a Camry fetish
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09:55 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
I don’t find it hard to believe the solstice is on top. I have told people before the first year of any model is the most problematic and expensive for the company to make.
That goes for any car company.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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10:03 AM
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
I don’t find it hard to believe the solstice is on top. I have told people before the first year of any model is the most problematic and expensive for the company to make.
That goes for any car company.
Well the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are first year cars. Notice also that all the NUMMI cars (made in USA by UAW) all made the best list. Really, one would think that the first year would be the best year not the worst..........Paul
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10:21 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
They didnt put any years in. My experience has been that vettes are very reliable (same basic drivetrain components for 55 years) and my Mercedes SL always got me where I was going for 250,000 miles. My most reliable car Ive ever owned (for the 7+ years I had it) was my Fiero with Ferrari body on it. After building from ground up, only problems I had was 1 blown clutch, 1 water pump, and about 1/2 dozen ignition modules. Ive had litterally HUNDREDS of cars, most all makes.
Originally posted by Paul Prince: Well the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are first year cars. Notice also that all the NUMMI cars (made in USA by UAW) all made the best list. Really, one would think that the first year would be the best year not the worst..........Paul
Fit and Yaris are old modles in Asia and Europe.
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10:58 AM
PFF
System Bot
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
Originally posted by 84fiero123: The first year you have the most mistakes. Most of the things you are not familiar with, new parts. New assembly processes.
I have a first year of the new Tacoma. Made at the Nummi plant. Less than two years old with 46,000 miles already. I have no regrets. "Oh what a feeling". I love my '70 Chevy short wheel base fleetside pick up. I love my '83 CJ7 Jeep. Not enough though to turn a blind eye towards other vehicles. I have had other Toyotas. Hillux,Tacomas, and Celicas. I think I chose wisely over a Luv, S-10, or a ???Monza? The Nummi plant opened in 1984. New models can have their problems but that plant employs very experienced Americans building well planned out vehicles for a company that evidently knows what is going on. With the consumers, the employees, and the future of their company.
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11:04 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Interesting how they have enough data on the Solstice to say it's the worst. Give how few are out there, what, did 3 of them break down?
The least reliable sports car is Jeremy Clarkson's Ford GT. The Top Gear host bought one of the few that made it to England. So far he says he has never completed any journey he's taken it on. It has broken down every time he's driven it - including on the first day he drove it.
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11:21 AM
Paul Prince Member
Posts: 2935 From: Kansas City, MO Registered: Dec 2002
Has a list of all the cars made at the nummi plant.
Corolla, Tacoma, and Vibe are what they make now.
Hilux, Prizm, Nova, and Voltz were past models.
Where on that list is any of these?
The prizm was ( it was last made in 1999? I think) as well as the Nova, which I think was last made in the late 80's. I am curious 84fiero123, you have posted in the past and seem to be of the opinion that unions are good and bad cars produced by UAW people are more the company design/management fault than the actual workers? I tend to agree (for the most part). Yet I give you a UAW plant that has all of its vehicles on the "best" list and you seem to be saying that their first year cars were bad.
Or is the fact that the NUMMI plant is modeled after Toyota's production model, and uses Toyota drivetrain components? Which actually proves the point that given the right environment/training/drivetrain etc. UAW workers can in fact, compete with anyone.
Would you agree that if the Solstice were assembled at NUMMI, it would be on the "best" list?............Paul
Interesting. Doing a quick google search revealed that none of the top reliable car manufacturers, save for Mistubishi and BMW (Mini Cooper) , are unionized.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 12-06-2006).]
I'm not so sure I'd place much value on a headline.
These scores can be weighted according to personal bias or, heaven forbid.... payoffs. You really have to look at the details of the report. The reliability can be easily affected by one flaw in a new model, or, simple reporting by customers.
Look at it this way. The Cobalt runs an Ecotech engine and a drive train we are pretty familiar with. Is it really unreliable? I doubt it.
The test are done by repairs at dealers per a certan number sold I thought? At one time the Hummer had like 7 per vehical when averaged out.
I thought that Consumers Reports sent out a survey form (probably electronic now). I doubt dealers would give anyone repair data. I have seen the form and it covers powertrain, electronics, brakes, interior, fit and finish, HVAC etc.
There are standards for these items, for example, the GM Quad4 had a head gasket failure rate of 11% between 88-92. The standard is like 1-2% (or less). For that reason alone CR would not recommend it as a "best" car.
If the head gasket was within limits but 10 other catagories were excessive they would also not recommend the vehicle........Paul
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02:14 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Most of the things you are not familiar with, new parts.
New assembly processes.
"http://www.nummi.com/vehicles.html"
Has a list of all the cars made at the nummi plant.
Corolla, Tacoma, and Vibe are what they make now.
Hilux, Prizm, Nova, and Voltz were past models.
Where on that list is any of these?
The prizm was ( it was last made in 1999? I think) as well as the Nova, which I think was last made in the late 80's. I am curious 84fiero123, you have posted in the past and seem to be of the opinion that unions are good and bad cars produced by UAW people are more the company design/management fault than the actual workers? I tend to agree (for the most part). Yet I give you a UAW plant that has all of its vehicles on the "best" list and you seem to be saying that their first year cars were bad.
Or is the fact that the NUMMI plant is modeled after Toyota's production model, and uses Toyota drivetrain components? Which actually proves the point that given the right environment/training/drivetrain etc. UAW workers can in fact, compete with anyone.
Would you agree that if the Solstice were assembled at NUMMI, it would be on the "best" list?............Paul
My quote simply said those, Hilux, Prizm, Nova, and Voltz were past models. Note past, as in made there previously or before.
As far as Nummi they use Toyota drive train and components,.
The reason I saw most of the problems with GM is in design and management.
I said the first year is when mistakes are made, yes, more so than any year after that.
I just stated a simple fact of life, the first time you do something it can never be your best, but it does get better as time progresses and so does your skill.
Read and learn, not all cars are made in Union shops.
Support union jobs in the U.S. and Canada This guide is prepared by the UAW to provide information for consumers who want to purchase vehicles produced by workers who enjoy the benefits and protections of a union contract.
All vehicles on this list are made in the United States or Canada by members of the United Auto Workers (UAW), Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) or the International Union of Electrical Workers-Communication Workers of America (IUE-CWA).
Because of the integration of U.S. and Canadian vehicle production, all vehicles on this list include significant UAW-made content and support the jobs of UAW members.
However, those vehicles marked with an asterisk (*) are sourced from the United States and another country. When purchasing one of these models, check the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN.) A VIN beginning with “1,” “4” or “5” identifies a U.S.-made vehicle; “2” identifies a Canadian-made vehicle. Not all vehicles made in the United States or Canada are made by union-represented workers. The Toyota Corolla, for example, is made in the United States by UAW members, but the Canadian model is made in a nonunion plant and other models are imported from a third country. To be sure you have a union-made vehicle, buy one of the vehicles on this list. Previous Years Union Car Guide "/uawmade/auto/2006/index.cfm" "/uawmade/cartruck2005.cfm" "/uawmade/cartruck2004.cfm" "/uawmade/cartruck2003.cfm" "/uawmade/cartruck2002.cfm" "/uawmade/cartruck2001.cfm" "/uawmade/cartruck2000.cfm" Consumer Buying Guide - 2007 Cars and Trucks UAW CARS Buick Lucerne Cadillac CTS Cadillac DTS Cadillac STS Cadillac XLR Chevrolet Cobalt Chevrolet Corvette Chevrolet Malibu Chrysler Sebring Dodge Avenger Dodge Caliber Dodge Viper Ford Five Hundred Ford Focus Ford GT Ford Mustang Lincoln Town Car Mazda Mazda 6 Mercury Montego Mitsubishi Eclipse Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder Mitsubishi Galant Pontiac G5 Pontiac G6 Pontiac Solstice Pontiac Vibe Saturn Aura Saturn ION Saturn Sky Toyota Corolla *
UAW PICKUPS Chevrolet Silverado * Chevrolet Colorado Dodge Ram * Dodge Dakota Ford F-Series * Ford Explorer Sport Trac Ford Ranger GMC Sierra * GMC Canyon Isuzu i-Series Lincoln Mark LT Mazda B-series Mitsubishi Raider Toyota Tacoma *
UAW SUVs/CUVs Buick Enclave Cadillac Escalade Cadillac Escalade ESV Cadillac SRX Chevrolet Suburban * Chevrolet Tahoe Chrysler Aspen Dodge Durango Dodge Nitro Ford Escape/Escape Hybrid Ford Expedition Ford Explorer GMC Acadia GMC Yukon XL GMC Yukon/Denali Hummer H1 Hummer H2 Hummer H2 SUT Hummer H3 Jeep Commander Jeep Compass Jeep Grand Cherokee Jeep Liberty Jeep Patriot Jeep Wrangler Lincoln Navigator Mazda Tribute Mercury Mariner/Mariner Hybrid Mercury Mountaineer Mitsubishi Endeavor Saturn Outlook Saturn VUE
UAW VANS Buick Terraza Chevrolet Express Chevrolet Uplander Chrysler Town & Country * Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan * Ford Club Wagon Ford Econoline GMC Savana GMC Savana Cargo GMC Savana Passenger Saturn Relay Ford Freestyle
CAW CARS Buick Lacrosse Chevrolet Impala Chevrolet Monte Carlo Chrysler 300 Dodge Charger Ford Crown Victoria Mercury Grand Marquis Pontiac Grand Prix CAW SUVs/CUVs Chevrolet Equinox Chrysler Pacifica Dodge Magnum Ford Edge Lincoln MKX Pontiac Torrent Suzuki XL7 CAW PICKUPS Chevrolet Silverado GMC Sierra UAW/CAW Vans Chrysler Town & Country Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan CAW VAN Ford Freestar IUE SUVs/CUVs Buick Rainier Chevrolet TrailBlazer GMC Envoy SAAB 9-7x
You can't tell me Consuner reports checks the point of assembly of the vehicles they test.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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02:20 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
The test are done by repairs at dealers per a certan number sold I thought? At one time the Hummer had like 7 per vehical when averaged out.
If that's the case, and it's based on ANY type of repair, you can see how the results could be skewed.
A new Solstice, Mercedes, 911, or Corvette owner could be seen as an enthusiast, or at least someone who wants a special car. I can easily see them taking it in for warranty service at the drop of a hat, becasue they want their car perfect.
The Lexus, Toyota, Eclipse, etc. probably don't garner that same level of enthusiasm. They might not take it in unless they really had to.
GM knows how to build good powertrains (with a few exceptions) but the quality of the vehicles they put them in is not up to the same level of quality. Take my '99 Grand Am for example. Other than the LIM gasket, the 3400SFI GenIII V6 is a great little reliable engine. Yet the brakes went bad at 20k miles. The power window motors have died multiple times. The HVAC controls broke. and on and on....
To me, a car that needs 10 minor repairs in 5 years might be considered more reliable than a car that needs only 1 repair in that time, but it's for something major, like a blown engine. With most minor problems, the car can still be driven.
I think the corvette made the list because the targa top kept seperating for people. Of course they will take it in for that. I haven't heard of a lot of mechanical problems though (other then common problems found throughout all manufacturers)
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07:04 PM
Xanth Member
Posts: 6886 From: Massachusetts Registered: May 2006
I think the corvette made the list because the targa top kept seperating for people. Of course they will take it in for that. I haven't heard of a lot of mechanical problems though (other then common problems found throughout all manufacturers)
You don't mean like it blew off do you?
------------------ www.FieroDomain.com Over 120 Fiero Links Articles Images Diagnostics
The UAW/CAW shops in our area produce some really good iron. Take the Crown Vic, Or the Mercury Marauder. In Ingersoll they make the GM/Suzuki stuff. Again, pretty reliable and durable iron. Down the road in Cambridge, they produce the Corolla and Camry.
The one GM car I had that was a disappointment was the Achieva. It had alot of Mexican parts in it and they went on a regular basis. As soon as the warranty was up, I traded it.
The Olds I now have is reliable, but, the front rotors do not do well. I've had to replace them with aftermarket rotors. But, the car is reliable. And, the warranty work is darn near perfect when you need it. I've found some minor design flaws, like the stereo face material which chips, and the cruise control switch that failed, but, that stuff is covered and replaced with no question.
And when the warranty is up, the parts will be readily available and cheap. You wouldn't say that about a Lexus eh?
Just my .02
Arn
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09:27 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
The whole top dont come out, only the outside skin separates from the inside and bye bye. Gotta love new glues.
I got my Magnum right after they came out, new car from the ground up and in 3 years Ive had very few problems. Talking about as a completed car..it does use Mercedes transmission, rear end, and suspension components. Ive had no problem at all with a completely new design Hemi engine, even with the MDS.
I tend to see consumer reports love the jap cars and absolutely bash anything american and a lot of the german stuff. Mercedes are some of the most reliable car's I've seen. I think old mercedes are holding up better than cameries, or at least the camery we have. I just can't believe that these reports aren't biased.
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01:41 PM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I owned an '04 Mazda RX8. I would never buy another Mazda again. In the first 2 years: 1. Engine flooded / quit - spark plugs had to be changed. 2. Engine computer reprogrammed 3 times. 3. Both headlights died about 2 months after purchase - both virtually at the same time. 4. Recall on possible fire hazard from exhaust system - install a new shield. 5. Driver's seat squeaky. Dealer wouldn't replace - drove me NUTS! 6. Driver's door squeaky in freezing temperatures - something inside the door was rubbing. 7. Stitching came out of shifter boot about 6 months after purchase. 8. Gear shifter, supposedly aluminum, wore out within 12 months (surprisingly enough it was copper underneath!). 9. Check engine light came on several times for no reason. Dealer didn't know why. 10. Several misc. annoyance things (wiper blades, tail lights kept foggin up on the inside after a car wash / rain, etc.)
I also talked to another owner who had to get a new engine in the first 6 months.
Yet I've never seen this car on a 'worst reliability' list anywhere - all I've ever read were praises, save for the excessive fuel consumption of the rotary.
I don't think these 'best/worst' lists are very accurate.
