She still seems to be improving, but still has the bullets where they were. Lots of people have had normal lives living with them, they just havent decided whether to leave them or not. She can answer questions with a yes or no by nodding.

They had a 2 hour local call in talk show on the radio last nite to discuss the whole thing. Pretty much everyone feels bad for the girl, but the homeowner also has support. Over half of the people felt the girls were more at fault and that his action was excessive. Grand jury decides next week if he will be released or charged with Felonious Assault. Even though the guy looks very creepy, it seems he has some kind of economics university degree so hes not an idiot. My feeling is that if she pulls thru completely, he will get off by pleading to a lesser charge. He may have bigger problems if she takes a turn for the worse. He could get by with anything from 1/ discharging a weapon within city limits to 2/ manslaughter or 2nd degree murder. A LOT of the callers agreed to what I said, her PARENTs are partially responsible for the whole thing in the first place.

On a side note about people playing pranks....' everyone does it ', what are your feelings about 2 high school football players thinking it would be funny to put a plastic deer in the road to scare drivers. 2 other teens driving along swerved to miss it thinking it was real and hit a tree, one criticly injured and other paralyzed. This happened in another town a few weeks ago. Let them go because it was just a prank.......and teens will be teens ?

Well, OK then.
You've all convinced me.
Trespassers will be shot.
All the kids that use my yard as a shortcut at 12:30 at night, playing there boombox, throwing their trash & cigarette butts down on the lawn and blasting fireworks (which could be mistaken for gun fire), ARE DEAD.
No need to involve the police.
I will just blindly squeeze off a few rounds out my window.
Who cares if I get the right person.
ANY of them COULD mean me harm.
No more "Kids will be kids".
ANY breakage of the law will result in DEATH.

We, as rational, thinking, mature adults, will stand strong and send a CLEAR message to the kids of our future generations: "You carry a bomb onto a plane, and you will be arrested, jailed, questioned, charged, tried, convicted, sentenced, & imprisoned. But you cross onto MY private property, and you will be SHOT and/or KILLED instantly, regardless of your 'intent'. Others your age have caused me stress, and just the SIGHT of you makes me fear for my life. Although I cannot prove YOU YOURSELF have never done me any harm, or INTEND to do me any harm NOW, I MUST assume you WILL. At the very LEAST you MAY spraypaint my PROPERTY, costing me upwards of a hundred dollars to REPAIR. Know you then, that is now punishable by DEATH or MAIMING."

THAT should send a CLEAR message to our kids.
"You phuck up, you die."

And to all you people who believe in the constitutional right "To Keep & Bear Arms" (like me), who CONDONE this mans actions, your "Shoot first, just INCASE they MIGHT mean me harm" attitude has sealed the fate of future private gun ownership.
This future generation will be tired of the threat of being shot by their classmates, gangs on the street, AND the adults that live in their neaborhood. They will grow up, take posistions in high office, and ban private ownership of guns, in any form.
They will teach & protect THEIR children, not with the THREAT of DEATH, but with THE RULE OF LAW, & DUE PROCESS.

To review:
You can't kill a pedophile without a trial.
You can't kill a terrorist without a trial.
You CAN kill a kid for trespassing, ringing your doorbell at night, crossing your lawn, or damaging your property.
And you don't even have to target THAT specific kid, just the group they are in.
Even if they are already OFF your property, LEAVING, and no longer a "THREAT".
Don't worry, your covered under the new "Armed Adults Fearing Unarmed Children" law.

Have any of you gun owners who SUPPORT this mans actions even HAD, or REMEMBER proper DEFENSIVE gun training?
I grew up using guns.
ALOT.
I was told:
1. You NEVER chamber a round until you are ready to KILL.
2. You NEVER fire a warning shot.
3. You NEVER point at anything your aren't willing to KILL.
4. You KILL whatever you target.
5. ONE TARGET, ONE SHOT, ONE KILL.

Only IDIOTS fire blindly, and should not even LOOK at a gun, let alone OWN or FIRE one.
You DON'T throw a hammer at a nail to drive it.
And you DON'T fire blindly into the darkness at a NOISE.
A Policeman don't open fire on a bank full of people, in hopes of hitting the ONE bank robber.
A Military Unit don't open fire on a whole village becouse there MAY be a person in there that wants to kill them.
In BOTH instances, I believe their actions are governed by the rules of ACQUISISION OF TARGET/THREAT.
And I believe most RULES OF ENGAGEMENT state you must be fired upon or the direct actions leading to being fired upon, such as raising your weapon.
Regardless of what the EXACT rules are, these PROFESSIONAL GUNMEN are trained that shooting someone is a LAST RESORT METHOD of stopping a CLEAR & PRESENT DIRE THREAT.

Secure Military Installations have the EXPRESS RIGHT to shoot trespassers, soley for trespassing.
But even THEY put you to the ground, rather then shoot you.
And they are protecting something FAR more importent then a lawn, a doorbell, a car soundsystem, or the vinal siding on their house.
Why do they use DEATH as a LAST RESORT?
Becouse they have TRAINING, SELF-CONTROL, & HONOR.
Everything this "Terrified Homeowner" did not have.
Being protective does not mean living & acting in FEAR.
Thoughtless actions can be EXPECTED from children.
But adults have NO excuse.


So, go ahead and shoot a young women trespassing on your property late at night while your watching Volume 3 of your "Girls Gone Wild" tape collection. You will be sending a clear message to our youth.
"You step even a LITTLE out of line, you die."
After all, they are "bad kids", and deserve the HARSHEST of penalties.
Unless, ofcoarse, It's YOUR KID that makes the mistake of crossing some IDIOTS yard.
After all, YOURS was the GOOD KID, right?

Flame me if you feel you must, but that don't change the fact that you KNOW I'm right.
You either believe in the RULE OF LAW & DUE PROCESS, or you don't.
There's NO halfway, or only when it suits you.
Do YOU want some guy down the street deciding WHEN it's OK to shoot YOUR KID?
Do you want to leave that in HIS hands?
Or in the hands of the LAW, who are bound by rules to PROTECT & SERVE?
OTHERWISE, WHY HAVE LAWS & ENFORCEMENT AT ALL?
Just let people take it into their own hands.
That works, right?

Think about WHO you are, and where you place your values.
Becouse it comes down to this: Who SHOULD have more control over their actions, you, as an adult, or some kid half your age?
Who should be responsable for making the BETTER decisions?
Even MORE SO when you are going to take a life.

"Daddy, why are police taking you away?"
"Becouse I shot a girl about your age for comming into our yard lastnight."
"But why?"
"So YOU would know not to go into anyone's yard."

Yep, that works.
Not.
You think the kids & people around that town are going to leave that house alone now, knowing the kind of person that lives there? You think the message he intended to get across will have the desired effect?
Do WE, as a COUNTRY, stay away from those that kill OUR people, for no good reason?

Yeah, I know.
Some of you STILL don't get it.
"If them kids wouldn't have BEEN there, they wouldn't have got SHOT."
Brillant.
You can easily get that blood off your hands by simply patting yourself on the back.
And to remove that sour taste from your mouth, just keep repeating, "I had EVERY right!".
That way, you will be able to kiss your children goodnight, secure in the knowlage that there are others where you live, just like you, who will make sure your kids will only make a bad descision ONCE.
Oh, wait, THAT couldn't happen to YOUR good kid.
It's the OTHER people who have bad kids that make foolish desicions.

I keep forgetting that.
BAD PARENTS are the only ones that bury their kids.

"Minority Report", anyone?

Feel free to hate me, rate me, just don't shoot me.
It's only my opinion.
After all, who am I, and why would you FEAR me?
How could my opinion THREATEN you?
I'm sure someone will find a way.
Lock & load.

Creedence Clearwater Revival - Run Through The Jungle:

Whoa, thought it was a nightmare,
Lo, its all so true,
They told me, dont go walkin slow
cause devils on the loose.

Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Woa, dont look back to see.

Thought I heard a rumblin
Callin to my name,
Two hundred million guns are loaded
Satan cries, take aim!

Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Woa, dont look back to see.

Over on the mountain
Thunder magic spoke,
Let the people know my wisdom,
Fill the land with smoke.

Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Woa, dont look back to see.

We all break the laws. We all know that in diong so there will be repercusions if caught. Did the girl need or deserve to be shot? No of course not. But it happened and there is plenty of blame to go around. Lets just hope some girl in the future won't be dumb and come back to prank a house after just being shot at with warning shots from that house. Lets hope some guy instead of shoting warnging shots only once does it twice. I have signs on my doors and better take what they say to heart.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 08-26-2006).]

Boonie, I have to take you up on one thing..These girls were adults.They are old enough to drive? They are therefore considered old enough to be responsible. After all, more people are killed by motor vehicles than are shot, I am sure.How can young adults such as these be adjudged mature enough to drive a motor vehicle, and yet be too immature to refrain from such STUPID and pointless behaviour? No. The end result is too horrifying for words. But these girls ARE adults.They are considered as such, by being granted the right to drive a motor vehicle.There is NO excuse for bad or unsociable behaviour OF ANY KIND.There are so many constructive activities that modern youth can indulge in, and contribute to our society, there is NO NEED for this kind of stupid prank. Unfortunately, there are too many people who try to excuse it. It is loutish, and leads to trouble. That isn't too hard to understand, surely? Give an inch, they take a mile.
I am SICK of children doing horrendous acts of violence and destruction to others and their property, and then being protected from a JUST and reasonable penalty.I will NEVER accept that any child above the age of 8 or so, doesn't know what is right or wrong..and if they don't, then the PARENTS should be prosecuted alongside the child for their misbehaviour.An example of this is currently on Sky News. A 4 year old boy was tied to a tree by an eleven-year-old, and then battered around the head with a BRICK. The child was left seriously injured, with his ear nearly detached and his skull sustained a depressed fracture. He very nearly died. Are you going to stand up and defend this sort of behaviour from a 'minor'? Do you honestly believe that this 11 year old didn't know what he was doing was evil, wrong and beyond description. Or the two boys who killed 4 year oldJamie Bulger a few years ago,after kidnapping him from a shopping centre? and were given a short detention sentence, and new identities to protect them? Did we hear of ANY penalty at all, being paid by the parents of these lower-than-animal children?
I am prepared to wager ALL I own, that these less-than-human children engaged in 'childish pranks' and other antisocial behaviour, and weren't punished for it, years before they indulged in the horrifying violence they engaged in.It all starts somewhere..usually misbehaviour in the home, and getting away with it.
Any form of life behaviour is a ladder..you don't get on halfway up the good side OR the bad side. You start at the bottom, and climb upwards. These children are more than halfway up the bad ladder, and if they get too far up, they will be beyond reach.Spare the rod, and spoil the child? NEVER.Too often the child will take the same rod, and beat somebody else with it.People don't become criminals overnight. It is a gradual succumbing to irresponsibility, which turns to downright criminal acts.
Take a look around..the evidence is there for ALL to see, every day, if you choose NOT to turn a blind eye.
Nick
Edit to add link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/26/uboy.xml
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Growing old is harder than growing up.
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[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 08-26-2006).]

Nick,

In the US, the girl was NOT an adult, whether she could drive a car legally or not. 18 years of age is the legal adult age here, so she was a juvenile.

Boonie,

Where, exactly, is the line drawn?

It's ok for you to sit back at your computer and pontificate at how unjustified this was. YOUR house wasn't the one that had been "has been targeted by what he called juvenile delinquents for months". YOU aren't the one that "doesn't have a good relationship with Worthington police" so you feel you're basically on your own when it comes to protection of yourself and your family. YOU weren't the one that had unknown intruders drive off and then come back.

So where is the line drawn, Boonie? Seriously. I don't agree with anyone firing blind. Heck, he could have hit his wife, an innocent neighbor, or who knows what. That's simply irresponsible. But given our current societal climate, how do you KNOW what's waiting for you outside the doors, particularly after going through months of harrassment?

YOU DON'T.

I have no doubt the guy will be charged. Not because he defended himself with a weapon, but because he did it improperly. That nonsense about "I didn't mean to hurt anyone" is enough for me to convict him. You fire a weapon, somebody's damn likely to get hurt and it was done willfully. I'd have thought better of him if he'd said I was aiming at her leg or whatever and she ducked, at least then he wouldn't come off as so inept.

But regardless of that, THOSE GIRLS INITIATED THIS CONFRONTATION AND THEY DIRECTLY CAUSED THIS TO HAPPEN!!

I can't stress that enough, Boonie. One of the reasons our society is where it's at today is an attitude such as the one you just posted about, and I believe that sincerely. People think there are NO consequences for their actions. No, I don't think getting shot should be the penalty for ringing doorbells, but just what IS the penalty for months of harrassment for this guy? He'd obviously complained to the police about it, because the neighbors and other said this had been going on for months, and what consequences did the delinquents handed to them under the "civilized" society we have? NONE.

That, too, is just as much a reason for this happening as anything else.

When I was in HS back in the early 70's, if good old Officer Tyler stopped us and said "Boys, it's time you be going home, and you'd best not let me see you on my streets again tonight" we damn sure went HOME. If we didn't, and he caught us, we were pretty likely to get an ass whooping from Officer Tyler. THEN we'd get a little trip to the station where, after a few hours, he'd call dad, then we'd get another one when we got home, and I'd probably STILL be grounded.

That doesn't happen anymore.

You tell me, is society better, or worse, for that change?

If things WERE the same now, as they were back then, do you think maybe, just maybe, those girls may not have even BEEN on that particular "thrill hunt"?
(BTW, thrill hunt my ass. You know as well as I do they were harrassing that guy because they and other had been doing it for months and had NOTHING done about it.)

John Stricker

Excellent post, John...but I must state the obvious, or as it appears to me !! Does she , by some miracle of evolution, suddenly become an adult at her next birthday which, for argument's sake, is at midnight that night? I can't believe that..and I know you don't either!! It is a convenient watershed for applying Laws, not a reality check.The Law is, I am sure, for convenience in regulating entry level into certain aspects of Public administration.Perhaps there should be a totally seperate definition of 'Adult status' when it comes to considering criminal responsibilty. I don't believe for one moment that it was accepted into the statute books to enable people to escape retribution for bad behaviour, because they are 'underage' in the eyes of administational Law.As you have pointed out, you were brought up in a Society which was equally involved in teaching ANY child the reality of good behaviour, by responsible Members of Society. As was I. I still vividly remember being verbally admonished by our milkman for spitting in the street.I never did it again!! Those Members still exist, but dare not reprimand bad behaviour any more, for fear of breaking the ridiculous 'PC' strictures on WHO teaches responsibility to people acting badly in public.We are protecting the bad apples with this type of PC'ness (my new word!!), not helping a child to understand when they cross the line of generally-accepted good social behaviour. Just because Parents are too ignorant, busy, or plain lazy, to teach the offending child of the error of the ways, we must suffer that in silence?
I am not directing these comments at you, John, just putting them in the arena generally
Nick

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Growing old is harder than growing up.
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[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 08-26-2006).]

20 years ago: adult = you better quit that and go home, its late
teen = yes sir, im sorry

now: adult = hey, you guys get out of her and go home before we call police
teen = screw you, we'll do what the f*%k we want

..I hope that was a typo, Roger..."get out of her"...otherwise I am sure your camera would have been out immediately!!
Actually, and seriously, I think 20 years is too recent to be true...more like 30-40 years ago, maybe.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: ..I hope that was a typo, Roger..."get out of her"...otherwise I am sure your camera would have been out immediately!! Actually, and seriously, I think 20 years is too recent to be true...more like 30-40 years ago, maybe.

20 years sounds about right. I graduated in High School in '83 (ok, 23 years) but if someone told me to get off his property or I heard what sounded like firecrackers, I would have taken off. Becasue let's be realistic - what's more likely, the homeowner throwing firecrackers at you, or bullets? I've heard gunfire in the distance, and fireworks. There's been a few times when I wasn't sure which was which, and I always assumed it was gunfire unless I knew otherwise. That just seemed like the safest assumption. And this was back when I was a teenager - so it's not some miraculous knowledge I've been imparted with over many years of adulthood.