quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: There was a book, large book, written by two Princeton professors back in 1992 that created quite a stir. It was called the Bell Curve. The basic assumptions are that intelligence is for the most part inherited, and that your success in life, as a parent, and career is determined by this. It placed the Asian community at the top, followed by Caucasians, and then listed blacks as having a proportionally lower IQ. Now environment and poverty were not considered, and the book was classified as being very racist. It was important because if true, inherited traits are difficult to change, and if so, like mentioned above, your are not really able to change some, or most human behavior, thru social policy. For that reason you, no matter what type of society you engineer or hope for, you are going to have your poor class. They do talk about others on the opposite end of the Bell Curve, that academic elite, very super intelligent. Whereas the poor tend to populate, have more children, the elite intellectuals tend to have fewer kids if any at all. Yes, so at some point you are looking at a very divided society. And in some respects this has already taken place, if you venture in to the diffirent neighborhoods of any large city.

The book "Freakenomics" shows this too. They talked about studies done that showed influential families that had very high I.Q., wealthy, intellectuals, and etc. They looked at those who had adopted children comparied to their biological children. All adopted children did poorly on test and in school than the biological counterparts. So it didn't matter if you grew up in the enviroment. It was all inherited genetics.

The reason why the adopted children did more poorly on test and in school is because they usually come from young poor mothers who tend to have low I.Q.

It's fasinating. Although they did mention that the adopted child of a rich and intelligent family had a much better chance of going to college and graduating and having a good paying job and a reasonable aquired job skills than if the child grew up in a poor family or a poor single parent household. So economics help, but it only helps the opporunity rather than helping your I.Q.

This just reminds me of Futurama. The regular race above surface and mutants in the sewer systems.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Chicks do. But ugly chicks don't marry up. Ugly chicks end up with ugly guys. Hot chicks at least produce good offspring.

What does that have to do with intelligence? Evidently looks are more important *to you*. Thank you for proving my point.

Besides just because two people are good looking or smart doesn't guarantee their kids will be. They MAY have a better chance, but no guarantee. Genetics doesn't work like that.

Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 07-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Tugboat: What does that have to do with intelligence? Evidently looks are more important *to you*. Thank you for proving my point. Besides just because two people are good looking or smart doesn't guarantee their kids will be. They MAY have a better chance, but no guarantee. Genetics doesn't work like that. Good Luck!

Yeah! You just proved my point. I never said looks were important, but BETTER CHANCE, is how genetic works. If you're dumb and ugly the chances of your kids being dumb and ugly are good. Doesn't gaurantee it, but you do have a BETTER CHANCE. It's funny how genetics work doesn't it?

Better luck next time.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: The reason why the adopted children did more poorly on test and in school is because they usually come from young poor mothers who tend to have low I.Q.

There may be much more to it than that, like lack of prenatal care and the child's early experiences. Things like that make a big difference in child development.

Good Luck!

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Yeah! You just proved my point. I never said looks were important, but BETTER CHANCE, is how genetic works. If you're dumb and ugly the chances of your kids being dumb and ugly are good. Doesn't gaurantee it, but you do have a BETTER CHANCE. It's funny how genetics work doesn't it? Better luck next time.

Attractive and ugly are opinions that vary from person to person and across cultures.

You say that hot chicks at least produce good offspring. That's an unusual statement. Not very well thought out...

Interesting that you mention physical attractiveness. I work in a school district in a lower class neighborhood. I have resident doctors who accompany me to the school. I dont officially work for the school district, but for the hospital, and so the school is where we see the kids, students who need help.

Well, the district is poor and so is the neighborhood and community surrounding it. Many of the doctors often observe and myself also, that there is something just not right about these kids. All have poor dental, poor nutrition, and are not too physcially attractive. Not to sound crass, or just mean, but this is a observable truth. Something that I noticed from working there for over a year is that there is much interdating and breeding going on for generations.

I agree evolution will continue, but in what way is anybody's guess. I'm not sure on some of the timelines mentioned here, though, I just did some checking and modern man has been around about 195,000 years. Man split from modern apes anywhere from 15-40 million years ago, so this may take a bit longer than some of us think. Here's my source http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: Interesting that you mention physical attractiveness. I work in a school district in a lower class neighborhood. I have resident doctors who accompany me to the school. I dont officially work for the school district, but for the hospital, and so the school is where we see the kids, students who need help. Well, the district is poor and so is the neighborhood and community surrounding it. Many of the doctors often observe and myself also, that there is something just not right about these kids. All have poor dental, poor nutrition, and are not too physcially attractive. Not to sound crass, or just mean, but this is a observable truth. Something that I noticed from working there for over a year is that there is much interdating and breeding going on for generations.

There may be a lot of correlation between those three. But tell me you've never seen nice looking girls in poor neighborhoods. As a cable man I preferred working the poorer neighborhoods, the people were nicer and some were pretty girls. Some horror stories, yes, but nice people for the most part.

Look at the other end of the spectrum. How many highly intelligent people are like the "beautiful people" that Hollywood has told us are attractive? Many are awkward, "nerdy", etc. Attractiveness and intelligence are not related.

Good Luck!

Hey, I know quite a few hott chicks that came from fugly parents. Maybe not supermodel hott but real world hott definitely!

I know some pretty hott trailer trash chicks also, not that I would ever marry down though
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[This message has been edited by 1fastcaddy (edited 07-11-2006).]

The poor generally dont have access to good health care, dental, and even suffer from the effects of poverty including depression/anxiety which has a adverse effect on your physical appearance. That is not to say there are not exceptions to the rule, as you will find ugly people everywhere and also very attractive people also. Do you understand the effects of poor nutrition on the body, have you ever been in the presence of an addict, drug or alcohol. They look many years older, as much as twenty year older in their physical appearance.

Within the school district I am in, again located in a very poor part of Pittsburgh. If you journey thru the elementary school you will see healthy children. Even academically they do well, as they are not yet fully sufferering from the effects of their culture and community (drugs and family life), but by middle school and then in to high school the changes are dramatic. Sad to say they are not very active, or optimistic about their future.

The problem is that survival of the fittest is not taking its course. Unfortunately the stupid ugly trashy people are procreating at alarming rates, where as intellegent people reproduce at more intelegent rates. So I really dont know where we are going to end up, but im kind of glad I wont be around to see it. The worst part is our government is supporting if not encouraging it. I recently started a new job in MIS in a new location. After shopping around I found I could not even get into half of the apartments in the area because I made too much money, and the ones I could get into were going to cost me over $200 more a month because I made over xx amount. Where as if I had a crappy job, I could get cheap housing, food stamps, welfare, and if I have a couple of white trash kids I can get even more money and tax breaks. I would almost be better off taking a minumum wage job.

From reading some of these arrogant self serving post, I'd venture it would be damn near impossible for some of you to marry down.

These are the sad state of affairs in todays inner city. Just observations, not meaning to offend or take position on any point. I continue to treat and be very dedicated to the population I serve, but generational, both family (environment) and genetic, are strong opponents. Schools, where my clinic is located, are the dumpin ground for many social problems, and the police are becoming the custodians, responsible for the clean up.

i'm pretty sure i dealt with a neanderthal today. let's call him ug. beetling brow, broad bones, very large teeth, jawbones to match. but that's just superficial appearance, let's look at behavoir.

man comes into store with an broken automotive belt. says it's the second broken one, and he's checked the pulleys. says he bought it from us, from a girl with long brown hair, maybe named jennifer, and he wants a replacement. we have a couple of ladies with long brown hair, but no jennifers, still no foul. we replace belts all the time, even if we suspect you abused it.

however, there's a catch.

manager "i'm sorry sir, we dont sell that brand".
ug: "i know i bought it here, i want another"
manager: "do you have a reciept?"
ug: "NO!"
manager: "we dont sell that brand sir, we only sell A, B, and C."
ug: "I BOUGHT IT HERE, FROM JENNIFER! I WANT A NEW BELT!"

manager goes back to find a replacement belt, while i look up "customer"'s car, 2000 grand caravan, 2wd.

me, pointing to screen: "see, sir, we only sell brands A, B, and C, no brand X."

ug: "I BOUGHT IT HERE, FROM JENNIFER! I WANT A NEW BELT!"

manager: "here's your new belt sir, have a nice day"

not bad for a hunter-gatherer, free belt just by bluffing.

ug say "me ug, me scare sabertooth by waving arms. ug!"

Women want a man who can provide for a family. This may have something to do with intelligence.

Men want a woman who can bear children. This may have something to do with attractiveness.

Both factors run in a continuum. There has to be some sort of seperation to have speciation.

Rotrex, I agree with what you're saying but for the most part the genetics are not affected.

Good Luck!