Your original post had a little class, this one shows just how classless you are.

Yep, nothing innovative comes from KS. Where you reckon Boeing got started? Learjet? Cessna? Beechcraft? Raytheon? Cutting edge avionics are all coming out of Olathe, KS, at Garmin. You have such a narrow view of the world it's simply pathetic. The guy that won the Nobel Prize a couple of years ago for inventing the integrated circuit grew up 30 miles from me and went to KS public schools. Wichita State University has the finest aerodynamic research lab in the world. Kansas State University has one of 3 nuclear reactors for teaching at any university in the US.

I'd wager I've spent more time in CA than you have in KS and to be honest, you couldn't pay me enough to live there with your taxes, crime rate, cost of living, emissions testing, and big brother knows best mentality. Anything you got that I might need is just a phone call or mouse click away.

Just keep on thinking we're a bunch of backwater hicks, dude. We like it that way, keeps the riff-raff like you out.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: There is a reason why it cost so much to live out here. It's worth it.

Not worth my time.

[This message has been edited by Telegram Sam (edited 05-14-2006).]

You can go back and edit your posts all you want, Sam, won't change that I'd already quoted it.

I didn't start the personal attacks, you did with comments like this

quote And as far as the cheap real estate in Kansas goes, well, I've been there and there's a reason for it. They may as well give it away. But if everyone was living in Kansas, where would anything innovative come from? Everyon would be brain dead from boredom.

I'm more than happy to respond and finish them though.

So everyone in KS is a brain dead moron and dies from boredom, and that's OK to say? When you get some of your own medicine back you edit your posts to show how much of a coward you are and run away to hide. People like you give Californians a bad name.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the combine. When did I call anyone a "Backwater Hick"? I think I'm going to leave this topic now that you've decided to make this a personal attack thread instead of a discussion. If you had an issue with something that I said, there are better ways of conveying that then calling me classless riff-raff.

You can probably find a nice house in Calif to share the rent with on roomateclick.com. I don't know the areas well, so didn't have a lot of luck in just the few minutes I was there, but some of the pictures of the people renting out the rooms made me want to pack up and move out there myself--some real babes some of them. Eventually, my computer's graphic card ran out of memory and the pics just showed up as gray outlines.


I think this one is under the $250 ceiling tho--and there were several like that. ???

Don,

Doesn't matter, really. Being the tough guy he is he's gone back and edited all his posts, sent me two PM's then blocked me (claiming it was all a joke, I must have missed the smiley). I have a pretty good idea who Telegram Sam is by his PM's and his posts and I suspect he won't be here long. Everything old is new again.

I did a quick search too and found several 3 and 4 bedroom houses in places like Bakersfield and Lancaster for under $1,000, which would easily be below $250/mo per person with roomates.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by maryjane: You can probably find a nice house in Calif to share the rent with on roomateclick.com. I don't know the areas well, so didn't have a lot of luck in just the few minutes I was there, but some of the pictures of the people renting out the rooms made me want to pack up and move out there myself--some real babes some of them. Eventually, my computer's graphic card ran out of memory and the pics just showed up as gray outlines. I think this one is under the $250 ceiling tho--and there were several like that. ???

[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 05-14-2006).]

You'd be happier if I played along with your flame war, I'm sure. I don't need it, neither does the forum. Give it a rest. No one's trying to be a "tough guy", with the possible exception of yourself, John.

No, I wouldn't. I like a spirited debate but I don't like name calling and insults. By the same token, I'm not going to run away and hide just because someone hiding behind a keyboard and fake name thinks they can bully people. You get what you give "Sam".

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: You'd be happier if I played along with your flame war, I'm sure. I don't need it, neither does the forum. Give it a rest. No one's trying to be a "tough guy", with the possible exception of yourself, John.

Hiding behind a "fake name"? Kudos to you for being one of the .3% of the people on this forum who use their actual name for their user ID. I'm not hiding or flaunting anything. Hiding behind a keyboard? John, you've looked me in the eye and drank beers with me. You know that I'll speak my mind in any forum, real or virtual. I'm not afraid ofsomeone's reactions, I just don't want to be the cause of a stink. I'd like to think I've grown up some. I never called you a moron, never inferred you were brain dead. I apologize if you took that personally. Quite contrary, it takes a special breed to survive and thrive on the great plains, and I hold a tremendous respect for people of the Midwest. But you stick a bunch of coastal folks out in the wheat fields without a soy chai to be seen for miles, and it's going to be a while before you see some new toothbrush designs at Target.

So chill, John. Reactions like this are what gives Totally O/T a bad name.

PS, I'll unblock your PMs if you really want to send me nastygrams. I just thought it might give you an opportunity to cool off. Apparently not.

[This message has been edited by Telegram Sam (edited 05-14-2006).]

Yes, hiding. I don't hide. I'm right here.

I have looked you in the eye and you still have the same problems you've had for a long time. You think you can say what you want about anybody and when your foot's in your mouth you blame it on the people you've insulted for not having a "sense of humor". Doesn't work that way. It never has and never will. I really don't care if you unblock me or not, but if you don't want a response stop PM'ing me. The world doesn't revolve around you. We're not here for your own personal amusement or appreciation. You still have problems with that. it's too bad because you have a lot of qualities that I admire, but they don't excuse bad behavior.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: Hiding behind a "fake name"? Kudos to you for being one of the .3% of the people on this forum who use their actual name for their user ID. I'm not hiding or flaunting anything. Hiding behind a keyboard? John, you've looked me in the eye and drank beers with me. You know that I'll speak my mind in any forum, real or virtual. I'm not afraid ofsomeone's reactions, I just don't want to be the cause of a stink. I'd like to think I've grown up some. I never called you a moron, never inferred you were brain dead. I apologize if you took that personally. Quite contrary, it takes a special breed to survive and thrive on the great plains, and I hold a tremendous respect for people of the Midwest. But you stick a bunch of coastal folks out in the wheat fields without a soy chai to be seen for miles, and it's going to be a while before you see some new toothbrush designs at Target. So chill, John. Reactions like this are what gives Totally O/T a bad name. PS, I'll unblock your PMs if you really want to send me nastygrams. I just thought it might give you an opportunity to cool off. Apparently not.

Did you miss the part where I apologized for offending you?

Come on man, give it a rest.

quote Originally posted by vega: Well then you get a multi car discountf for one- and two are you odler then 21? 25? both ages yrou Ins goes down so if you are as young as i am then your car ins would go up? I am using state farm - i personally can't stand the company and need less ins- this is one thing that is KILLING me EVERY month-its a small bill yes 200 bucks but it all adds up. i have a 94 saffari van and a 85 gt fiero. Is it a local company real small? cause if we get that up here in MN and it really is that LOW. then i would LOVE to swtich over to something sooooooo low. I mean seeing that you have mulitple cars- if i pay the van as my main vehcile it is about 193 with everythign else wich adds to about 203 a month- then as the fiero as the main it costs abtou 216- with paying the fiero as a second vehcil as well then it is another 65 a month so that is about 260 a month with van fist and fiero second. and i have not done it the other way around yet. (HEY BTW ANYONE INTEREST IN A LOW MILES NEAR PERFET CONDITION NO RUST 94' GMC SAFFARI PM ME!- http://classifieds.mys pace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=classifieds.viewAd&classifiedID=1464300&catID=7&Mytoken=4EC8DFEE-490F-4F3D-80B7821B6F98C213409782765 )

I'm 20 so the rates are about as high as can be. Only way they could be higher is with a few tickets and accidents (which I don't have). To get USAA though you need to have a relative in the military. My Grandfather was in the Navy and he designed planes for Lockheed later on, so my Dad could get USAA, and I can get USAA because of my Dad.

WOW............

Yeah, sorry about all that. Some people take stuff WAY too personally.

Yes they do. 9 PM's today and on, then off, now on your ignore list. You're right Sam, some people do take things too personally.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: Yeah, sorry about all that. Some people take stuff WAY too personally.

So, find any rent under $250 yet? Let's try to get back on topic instead of this crap. Yeah, I'm tired of your PMs telling me what a scumbag I am because I suggested that Californians would be bored in Kansas. Shoot me already.

this week on TOT, a pissing contest. who has the bigger ego, john or sam? the answer to this, and other burning questions after these messages...

That's rich! LOL. OK Sam, you win. I give. Not that I ever called you that, but hey, whatever gets you through the night.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: So, find any rent under $250 yet? Let's try to get back on topic instead of this crap. Yeah, I'm tired of your PMs telling me what a scumbag I am because I suggested that Californians would be bored in Kansas. Shoot me already.

John I read your post on estimated monthly cost of living. $250 a month rent? 300 miles per month in a car? Come one, you can't really believe that can you? Be honest, this is insane.

If we're talking apples to apples.............$250/month for rent is realistic in an area of the country that an employer would pay minimum wage. And, $300/month for transportation costs is realistic in those areas.

What? Come on? $250 rent? 10 miles day in the car total. You would have to live in a medieval village.

Yes, in my hometown of 3500 people, you rent a 1 bedroom for $250/month yet. You can get a minimum wage job at the local hardware store or grocery store. The town is 5 miles x 5 miles.

Nationwide median rent is $602 a month

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/aausrents.htm

The average rent climbed to $940 in the fourth quarter of 2005, according to real estate data firm M/PF YieldStar.

http://realestate.msn.com/Rentals/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=262101


It is unrealistic and nearly impossible to do what you all are suggesting.

Let's go a bit bigger in population..........Dubuque, IA Population 58,000

Here's the rental ads out of the paper:

http://www.accessdubuque.com/classifieds/results.cfm?mc=Real%20Estate&sc=720

You'll see plenty of 1 bedroom apartments for around $250. You'll see 2-3 bedrooms for $400-$500

Iowa's minimum wage is $5.15/hr. My sister is a retail store manager. She hires someone with no experience for $6.25/hr

I could easily do it here, and without living in squalor. One of the guys I work with has been doing it for at least 2 yrs-due mostly because of repeated DUIs.
1. Move into the Motel converted to apartments, where rent is less than $250/mo.
2. Ride the bus to work and back.

We aren't a mideival village--it just doesn't cost much to live here. And no- I never worked for min wage here either, and neither has anyone else at my particular workplace. Starting wage for labor off the street is around $7/hr at the company I work for.
Heck, Weinersnitzel (a hotdog joint) starts their people off at over $7 hr, just to keep them from going elsewhere.

It might be much more difficult in Calif, and you wouldn't be living in the manner most of us are accustomed to, but I suspect college kids do it all the time, by sharing a big place and splitting the rent among the household members.

Conn,

I never said what you can rent for here was applicable everywhere. The original post was asking about different areas, this is MY area. From your article:

quote Renters in Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin and Wyoming spent the lowest share 23.4 percent or less

and

quote Ten Lowest Rent Cities Brownsville, Texas - $405 Erie, Pa. - $424 St. Louis, Mo. - $442 Louisville, Ky. - $443 Cincinnati, Ohio - $444 Birmingham, Ala. - $446 Dayton, Ohio - $448 Springfield, Mo. - $452 Evansville, Ind. - $454 Laredo, Texas - $454

These are AVERAGE rents, Conn. That means half are higher, half are lower. To say it's not possible to rent a one bedroom or efficiency apartment in any of these areas for $250/mo or less is not being reasonable.

As far as the mileage, of course it varies. The average amount people drive is about 1,000 miles a month. Most people drive less because people like me that drive 8,000 or more really skew the average. 300-500 miles a month is not an unreasonable number.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nationwide median rent is $602 a month http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/aausrents.htm The average rent climbed to $940 in the fourth quarter of 2005, according to real estate data firm M/PF YieldStar. http://realestate.msn.com/Rentals/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=262101 It is unrealistic and nearly impossible to do what you all are suggesting.

Even at the thriftiest possible eating plan statistics show a 20 yr old male will eat $485 in ffod per month.


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EUB/is_1_12/ai_57512271

Official USDA Food Plans: Cost of Food at Home at Four Levels, U.S. Average, June 1999 - 1 - Brief Article - Statistical Data Included

AGE-GENDER Thrifty Low-cost Moderate- Liberal

MALE:
12-14 years 109.60 153.40 189.80 223.10
15-19 years 113.10 157.30 196.30 226.60
20-50 years 121.30 156.40 195.00 236.10
51 years and over 109.60 149.10 183.70 220.50


FAMILY OF 4:
Couple, 20-50 years and
children--
1-2 and 3-5 years 369.60 465.80 569.40 701.10
6-8 and 9-11 years 426.40 549.00 683.80 823.70

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 05-14-2006).]

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nationwide median rent is $602 a month http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/aausrents.htm The average rent climbed to $940 in the fourth quarter of 2005, according to real estate data firm M/PF YieldStar. http://realestate.msn.com/Rentals/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=262101 It is unrealistic and nearly impossible to do what you all are suggesting.

Is that rent for a 1bedroom or 2 or 3 bedroom?????

My wife put on 4000 miles in the 14 months I was in Iraq. She took the kids to school every day and she grocery shopped once a week. If she worked and worked in the suburb we live in, she'd put on 10 miles a day to commute to work. (Or take a bus and not put on those miles.)

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Nationwide median rent is $602 a month http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/aausrents.htm The average rent climbed to $940 in the fourth quarter of 2005, according to real estate data firm M/PF YieldStar. http://realestate.msn.com/Rentals/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=262101 It is unrealistic and nearly impossible to do what you all are suggesting.

I don't think I've ever even seen a $900/mo rent here for anything residential. Maybe a newer 4-5 bdr house.
Most 3 bdr homes here rent for around $700, and they are fairly new too.

I think you read your link wrong, at least the way I'm looking at it.

Monthly cost, on the thrifty plan, for a 20 year old male, is $121.30. Are you sure you're not taking that as a weekly cost and multiplying by 4? I'll admit that I might have been a little conservative on the food, but not by the amount you show. Don't forget, if you can't afford steak you by hamburger and if you can't afford hamburger you eat Ramen. i can tell you that my wife and I spend about $270/mo on food at the grocery store and that includes the cost of butcherin a hog and buying our beef in sides once a year, so our meat is cheaper than most people pay.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Even at the thrifties possible eating plan statistics show a 20 yr old male will eat $485 in ffod per month. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EUB/is_1_12/ai_57512271 Official USDA Food Plans: Cost of Food at Home at Four Levels, U.S. Average, June 1999 - 1 - Brief Article - Statistical Data Included AGE-GENDER Thrifty Low-cost Moderate- Liberal MALE: 12-14 years 109.60 153.40 189.80 223.10 15-19 years 113.10 157.30 196.30 226.60 20-50 years 121.30 156.40 195.00 236.10 51 years and over 109.60 149.10 183.70 220.50 FAMILY OF 4: Couple, 20-50 years and children-- 1-2 and 3-5 years 369.60 465.80 569.40 701.10 6-8 and 9-11 years 426.40 549.00 683.80 823.70

conn......

How many Americans, that are the sole provider of themselves or of a family ACTUALLY ONLY make minimum wage?

The federal minimum wage is not, and has never been, set at a level where one person could work one job at minimum wage and cover all of their expenses everywhere. The economy simply won't support that level of a minimum wage. It is there to keep a bare floor under the wages for people like HS Kids working at fast food and highly unskilled, untrained workers to have some type of reasonable compensation for their skill set.

John Stricker

Edited to add because I went back and looked it up.........

The US Poverty level right now is set at $8,980 for one person. Figuring a 40 hour work week, 52 weeks a year, that's 2,080 hours. Divide $8,980/2080=$4.31/hour. The Federal Minimum wage is $5.15/hr or almost 20% OVER what one would have to make and "officially" be above the poverty line.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: So what are the millions of other folks out there in poverty going to do? All live in 3 or 4 states? Come on now, this ridiculous. You and I both know the federal minimum wage is not nearly enough to sustain oneself independently. It is ludicrous.

[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 05-14-2006).]

Conn, just to ask.. what is the average starting wage in your area?


Our local guy has found a micky D's that will pay 6.50 an hour.. Obviously they aren't looking hard enough or south enough.
Phone support / customer service.. (read you're breathing and know what a computer looks like) jobs in EP start between 10-12 an hour.. No experience, no degree, no union.

Out state MN is screwed.. I tried to make it in DL.. yes there are actually jobs up there that pay min wage and are staffed by college grads.. well those idiots are willing to work for less to stay in a certain environment.. Duluth was once a strong Iron, Ore, Shipping city.. you could go work for any number of companies and be assured of retiring after 20 with a fat pension.. Now.. not so easy.. duluth and outstate MN is dead.. nothing more than colleges and tourist industry and you can get those ppl to work for crap.

The TC / metro is completely different, shocked that it took me this long to figure things out.. 5 yrs ago I was living in Hinckley, and working steady at the casino for 8 an hour.. thought things were good.. well life happens.. and my choice was to try and make something happen in duluth or go to mpls an start over.. well I went metro.. I now make 3x what I made in duluth and hinkly .


so the moral of this story.. move to where the money is at. It's the same where ever you go.. your're not going to make the same wages living in Barstow as you would living in LA or SF.. I know it's only an hr or 2 apart.. but that's all it takes.

Yeah you're right John, I was reading the top labels, and the bottom numbers. There were titles in the middle showing monthly costs that I missed. I thought it seemed a bit much. 121 a month would be alot of ramen noodles and white bread though wouldn't it.

Work at Burger King?

Here's breakfast.



(portion size is accurate)

lunch?



What's for dinner?

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 05-14-2006).]

you might be surprised on what a person can get by on if they have to. in college (circa 1997) i had a one bedroom rat hole for $210 a month. included water and sewer. uneven floors, one bedroom, had a big wall mounted gas furnace in the bedroom. HOT the bedroom, cold as crap in the kitchen.

no cell phone, no cable, no internet. lots of mac n cheese with tuna or hot dogs. come to think about it it really wasn't that bad. try reading Walden sometime. if you give up material objects (and desire for them) just surviving isn't that hard.

BTW.. just to get my rant out..

If you're out of HS and willing or looking for a min wage job then you're too stupid to live.

There are too many options open if you're willing to get off your lazy ass. A general construction grunt will pull 12+ an hour minus union dues.
If you have 2 arms and 2 legs you can work for a decent amt of pay.

Learn a little skill and things go up from there.
Right now I personally have a choice of staying where i'm at and doing internet stuff for 30k plus a year.. nice relaxed beer friday kinda place or I could go to a concrete company and drive truck for 40k a year.

what are my quals? Class B license, and OJT web stuff..

If you want to lose and starve, live on the welfare.. then stay in outstate MN..
This from someone who was opposed to moving to Murderapolis.. things and times change.. It's up to you

I agree with you Uuana, I am merely arguing the notion that independent minimum wage living is not only possible but not that difficult. I would argue that not only is it almost impossible in most all places within the US, but it's hard as hell in the places you might find that you can actually do it.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 05-14-2006).]

If you took my post to mean that I thought it would be EASY, then I did poorly at it. No, it wouldn't be easy if you were used to things like cell phones, driving when you want and where you want, eating out a few times a week, playing with your car (stereos, mods, etc.). Not easy at all.

We do disagree on the opinion that it wouldn't be possible in "most" places in the US. I think it would be possible to survive in most places, but you wouldn't have much fun doing it, that's a fact. There are people that live on the street in most places that make virtually nothing and survive, but I wouldn't want to live like that either (and have no desire to see anyone else live like that).

Minimum wage is at least $5.15. That's over $9,000/year after deductions. With a roomate, that's possible most places, but again certainly not fun. Most people would end up doing like I did in college, or Don mentioned, and that's get a second part time job to make ends meet. That would be their only option. Looking back, if I didn't have to pay my books and tuition, I probably could have gotten by on the one job, and that was when my tuition was $390/semester and books were $120/semester. No, you don't have to tell me how much they are now, I already know.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: I agree with you Uuana, I am merely arguing the notion that independent minimum wage living is not only possible but not that difficult. I would argue that not only is it almost impossible in most all places within the US, but it's hard as hell in the places you might find that you can actually do it.

I think California actually has moderate income working homeless. Which is really sad. I wouldn't live in California to save my life.

There are so many places where you can make a good living and afford a place to live in the USA, you can take your pick. The standard of living in California isn't for the working class, unless you want to live in their vast and violent ghettos.

I don't blame people and businesses leaving California.