First, Tom Cruise.
My problem with him is not his movies, his ego, or even his Scientology beliefs.
(although i find it strange that anyone could put so much faith in a belief started by the science fiction writter L.Ron Hubbard, that the reasons for everyone's woes in the world are because an alien Evil Lord Xenu froze some alien souls and dumped them into a volcano in ancient Hawaii. The aliens' souls thawed and found human hosts at the dawn of time, inflicting the woes of the world on man.)
People can believe what ever they want.

My problem with him, and his movie studio is this:
South Park did a episode on Comedy Central, mocking Scientology.
Tom Cruise didn't like it. (although he had no problems with South Park mocking every other religion known to man, which they have done, time & time again)
Comedy Central was going to re-run the episode.
Tom Cruise said, "If you do, I won't promote my new movie, "MI:3".
Comedy Central's parent company is Viacom, which also owns Paramount, which is Cruises' studio.
Paramount told Viacom to tell Comedy Central to pull the South Park episode.

So what i see is, a moviestar threw a fit about a cartoon making fun of his religion, and said, "If you don't take it off the air, I won't let you make any money off of me!"
The studio said, "We can't lose that "Tom Cruise" money! Pull it.".

When spoiled rotten moviestars start calling the shots on what you can and can't see, we, the viewers, who actually pay the bills, are in trouble.

Yeah, I know, it's no big deal.
I just hate bullies, primadonnas, and the spoiled rich who think their money gives them the right to dictate what I can & can't have access to.

Isolated incedent of one spoiled moviestar?
Let's don't forget that Isaac Hayes, who was the voice of "Chef", quit the show becouse of "a growing insensitivity toward personal spiritual beliefs" in the media.
In the 10 years and over 150 episodes of 'South Park,' Isaac never had a problem with the show making fun of Christians, Muslims, Mormons or Jews. He got a sudden case of religious sensitivity when it was his religion that was featured on the show.

And nether did Tom.

So what do Tom Cruise & Isaac Hayes have in common, besides being hypocretes, and having a strong belief in censorship? (unless their work is the one being censored, i'm sure!)

Will me not buying the products of these 2 individuals make a differance?
Nope.
Not to me or them!
Life goes on.
The End.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-09-2006).]

They named their child Suri, which they said means "Princeses, or Red Rose". I heard a report on the news that in Japanese it means "pickpocket" .
Don't know if it's true or not..........Paul

I didn't know that. What I don't like about him is his attempt to convert everyone.

South Park is where I get all my religious dogma information. All I know is I'm definately not a mormon, and I'm definately not a scientologist!

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Will me not buying the products of these 2 individuals make a differance? Nope. Not to me or them!

Not to them but it should to you.
I didn't know this. Not getting my money either.

This is what happens to people for whom everything is easily obtained; wealth, women, etc.

They think they are somehow better than everyone else and cast their dispersions and begin to believe their own press thinking they know better and if everyone did as they say then all would be happy: Barbara Streisand, George Clooney, Ted Kennedy, and Susan Sarandon come to mind.

Welcome to Garth Brooks and the country music industry 10 years ago. How in the world can an artist on a record label cause the President of the label to get fired? I don't know either, but he did. Then all of the 'lesser' artists on the label got dropped so they could convert their full efforts to promote... Garth Brooks. Oh yeah, he also got Trisha Yearwood and Chris Ledeux deals.

Have you heard of Cletus T. Judd? He is country music's answer to Wierd Al. He does spoofs. Most artists get a good laugh out of Cletus redoing one of their songs. It draws attention to the original song and besides, it is just funny. He was slated to do a Garth Brooks song but Garth said he couldn't. Now legally, Garth can't tell him he can't do the song... Even though the song is based on Garth's original, it is still a new song according to BMI and the law. Even if it were the same song, after a song is released publicly for the first time, anyone can record it and the original writers of the song can't stop them... So how was Garth able to stop Cletus from releasing the song? Same way he got the President of his label fired... Same way Tom Cruise got the South Park episode pulled.

Personally, I can't stand anything Tom Cruise stands for and don't have any desire to help him continue. I think he is nuts.

Todd, don't forget Alec Baldwin and Sean Penn! There are tons of them I know, but these are among the most annoying.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: They think they are somehow better than everyone else and cast their dispersions and begin to believe their own press thinking they know better and if everyone did as they say then all would be happy: Barbara Streisand, George Clooney, Ted Kennedy, and Susan Sarandon come to mind.

So many people from CA, and no one mentioned Arnold?

For me, it is because I don't think Arnold falls into the category. But I only speak for me. Others can say whatever they feel.

Oh yeah! That reminds me... the south park episode with Mel Gibson? 100% true. WHEEE! abububububpffft gurgle gurgle WHEEEE!

I don't watch SouthPark so I have no idea if that is something aimed at me. I choose more adult ways of getting my information.

No, Mel Gibson was portrayed as a rambling insane moron in one episode.

For the record, south park IS for adults. <cough>

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 05-09-2006).]

Yea they've been attacking Jews since day one, and I dont think there has ever been a single episode where Kyle was not degraged for being a Jew, additionaly they have insulted every other religion Ive ever heard of, and many I havent. But all of a sudden insult Scientology and they are "too inconsiderate" lol, thats just stupid. They really gave it to chef in the next epoisode though, lmao, for anyone who didnt see it they dubbed the whole episode for chef, made him say suff like "I wanna make love to you ya children" and all kinds of other stuff. It was choppy and obvious it was dubbed, which was part of the joke, Then they killed him, had him eaten alive by animals, then like shot and burnt and a bunch of other stuff to make it plainly obvious he could never come back as alive.

I was really suprised Issac Hayes would act like that, Tom Cruise has kind of been building himself as a Kook for a while now, and cemented the deal there, im sure that will hurt him much more in the future, Im not seeing MI3, not to get back at him, but beacuase I assosciate him with that kind of crazy crap, so anytime I see him in relation to something else, I automaticaly have a bad disposition to it.

I'm not saying you are bad for watching SouthPark, although the first time I ever heard of it was from a 14 year old. I am sure there are adults who watch it, heck, I bet there are adults who won't miss an episode of SpongeBob. But you did say you got your religious information from SouthPark and that doesn't seem like a very good source. if you notice I said I got my information from 'more adult' sources. A cartoon should not be a source of serious information... And I also disagree with you about Mel Gibson, but I assume that is because I am Christian and you are maybe not. It is much easier to say someone is a raving idiot if they don't agree with you. (If you are speaking of something other than his zeal for Passion, then I don't know what it is and will have to concede your point because I haven't heard it.)

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Mel Gibson was portrayed as a rambling insane moron in one episode.

I never saw that South Park episode, but I've seen Mel Gibson interviewed on many late night TV shows over the years. He's an odd duck, in a hyper kinda way.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Hey does anyone know where I can get the "forbidden" episode? or the title or episode number so I can P2P it?? thanks!

I don't know about P2P, but here's a bunch of streaming links:
South Park Episode 912: Trapped in the Closet:
http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/South_Park_Scientology.html

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Songman: I'm not saying you are bad for watching SouthPark, although the first time I ever heard of it was from a 14 year old. I am sure there are adults who watch it, heck, I bet there are adults who won't miss an episode of SpongeBob. But you did say you got your religious information from SouthPark and that doesn't seem like a very good source. if you notice I said I got my information from 'more adult' sources. A cartoon should not be a source of serious information... And I also disagree with you about Mel Gibson, but I assume that is because I am Christian and you are maybe not. It is much easier to say someone is a raving idiot if they don't agree with you. (If you are speaking of something other than his zeal for Passion, then I don't know what it is and will have to concede your point because I haven't heard it.)

Harsh.

As if cartoons can't be enjoyed by anyone older than 14. The average age for Simpsons viewers is 28. What does it matter where I get my information from, if it's correct?

http://www.i4m.com/think/southpark/

This is an examination of the episode on Mormons. It states that it was about 95% correct. There are MINOR differences between the version from the church, and the south park version (such as the "seer stones" not being found with the golden plates, etc), but quite accurate in it's depiction.

As for Gibson, he's said a number of stupid things over the years.

You're entitled to your opinion... And I have to admit that I haven't followed Mel around taking notes on things he has said.

And as I said, even though a cartoon may be 'meant' for adults, doesn't make it a good source of information. While I am sure that they hit and miss from time to time, the entire show as far as I know is a spoof. It's only intent is to make fun of things because it gets a laugh. You say that there is one episode that says it is 95% accurate to Mormons. Is that accurate to the creators version of Mormons or actual Mormons? Any TV show that's sole purpose is entertainment is done with the opinions of the creators. Heck, a lot of documentaries are done with only the opinion of the creator.

If you are happy that you get your religious information from SouthPark, I say more power to you. or any other information for that matter. You have that right. I just wouldn't expect too many people on internet forums to accept it as a credible source.

As for trying to make other adults who like to watch cartoons turn on me... I never said that cartoons couldn't be enjoyed by people over 14. Again.. I said that the cartoon should not be a serious source of information. I've been known to watch the Simpson and King Of The Hill myself. I never once thought about using the episodes to prove a point though. They are just for entertainment.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I've seen Mel Gibson interviewed on many late night TV shows over the years. He's an odd duck, in a hyper kinda way.

Hmmm. Now there is a shocker--an actor that is an odd duck.


Regarding Tom Cruise, I am not a fan of his. I don't dislike him, either. And I don't go to movies, so I'm about as neutral as you can get on issues like this.

I think scientology is a false religion (and I would guess he thinks the same of mine). But I have no problem with his behavior. At least if he thinks it is real, he is willing to be zealous about it. And I guess if he thinks false religions (in his mind) are made fun of, then he has no problem with it but if the one true religion (in his mind) is made fun of, then he has a problem.

That is different than what I would personally do, because even if I think other religions are false--still, don't make fun of them (too much) because you don't have to hurt people's feelings for entertainment.

And my problem with Tom Cruise is if promoting the movie was part of his deal with the studios or whoever. If it was in the contract, then it is a violation of contract. If he won't sign a contract before his next movie, then any producer should factor in that Cruise might not promote the movie and then put that valuation into the contract offer.

But to say Cruise is "calling the shots on what you can and can't see", that is just wrong. That is a studio decision. They don't have to listen to Cruise. They can say, "Fine, don't promote the movie then. We'll make less money, but we want freedom to show what we want."

This isn't a censorship issue. Cruise doesn't have that authority. He has INFLUENCE, but not authority. This is a studio "selling out" for the sake of money.

quote Originally posted by Songman: You say that there is one episode that says it is 95% accurate to Mormons. Is that accurate to the creators version of Mormons or actual Mormons?

The show was accurate in the portrayal of the actual events that started the Church of Latter Day Saints.

Well, I'll have to take your word on that since I haven't seen the episode... Just as you are taking the shows word... I will submit that 5% in a history of something can change a lot. Which 5% of the history did they choose to mess with? How do they know they only distorted 5%? Could it not have been 6%? 8%? Why didn't they make it 100% accurate? Sounds like another way of putting down Christians to me... Not that I agree totally with the Church of Latter Day Saints.. But you get the point.

If I rewrote the history of WWII and change 1%... let's say Hitler's racism.. Boy! Wouldn't that be a totally different story...

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-09-2006).]

read the link I posted above. mostly it was in the interest of time constraints. south park edited out the 7 months between when Joseph Smith's translation from the first gold plate to the translation of "another one with the same story". The "seer stones" were never found with the gold plates, etc... Minor things.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 05-09-2006).]

OK.. At first I was going to say I didn't care about the subject enough to take the time to look at the link, but morbid curiosity got the better of me...

Here is what I found...
Part 1) South Park's rendition of the First Vision comes close to the truth.
Part 2) South Park pokes fun and pokes holes in Joseph Smith's story of Moroni's appearance.
Part 3) What Joseph Smith said he found isn't exactly what South Park shows, but it's close.
Part 4) South Park depicts the actual Book of Mormon "translation" process more accurately than the modern church does
Part 5) It's a funny story and it's pretty close to the way things really happened.

Sorry... Not exactly what I would call serious in a historic format. I didn't change any words. These are pasted directly from your link...

So the writers say that they are telling the true story, or at least 95% of it... Unless you count that the story of the vision only comes close to the truth. And then they poke fun and poke holes in the story of the appearance. And they their story isn't exactly... but it is close to what Joseph Smith says he found. And this is the one I like... SouthPark depicts the translation more accurately than the church does. I'm surprised the Church hasn't made this required reading to all members then. And finally... It's a funny story and it's pretty close to the way things really happened.

Sounds to me more like 5% of it is based on reality. They admit that they poke fun and poke holes in the Mormon story. Which brings me right back to what I said a long time ago. Sounds just like another way for people against Christianity to put it down. It is a good thing they said that it was 95% correct or there would be no way to recognize it!!

So there was this Jewish guy named Hitler...

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote The First Vision segment of South Park is entertaining, but it does not represent the truth about the various versions of Smith’s story that he produced over the years. It most closely resembles the official version published by the church, but since that version contradicts Smith’s earlier handwritten accounts, the viewer is given the false impression that it best represents Joseph Smith's story.

See the problem? There are many accounts of Smith's story. The Church of LDS even contradicts Smith!

And yes, it makes fun of it and pokes holes in it. Just like it did with Scientology. It would be stupid to bring up scientology in an episode without ridiculing it.

Yes, Scientologists believe Xenu is the ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy", who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to earth in "space planes" that were exact copies of Douglas DC-8s, "except the DC-8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't.", stacked the people around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, causing the problems you see today.

If that's not funny, I don't know what is.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Scientology is just asking to be made fun of. I do disagree that SouthPark was 95% accurate on their Mormon history. Apparently, they know they weren't that accurate either according to the link you posted.

In any religion there are always going to be contradictions. But the church has the right to decide which one is 'correct', not SouthPark. I am not a Mormon and don't have much 'faith' in their faith.. But they believe it so I figure they have that right. Any cartoon that dedicates an hour to the beginnings of a religion would have to do it in a way of poking fun.. otherwise there would be nothing funny about it.

Anyway.. we are way off subject here and I am about to go eat lunch. Have a nice day.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 05-09-2006).]

I can't believe that anyone is taking South Park seriously. For any reason.
It's a freaking cartoon. It skewers everybody! It's supposed to make you laugh (and shock you a bit, at the same time.)
Taking jabs at things that people hold sacred is what it's about.
I don't care how accurate it is, or isn't. It's a cartoon.
I hold it on about the same intellectual level as Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Anyway...
Tom Cruise, IMHO, is as crazy as a bedbug. Even disregarding the whole scientology thing.
Every time I see him on the screen, I am reminded of the clip of him jumping up and down on Oprah's couch. What a nut-cluster.

As for Isaac Hayes? Meh. Who cares.
Another actor/musician with an inflated opinion of himself. Typical. Screw 'im.

I stopped watching South Park when they started playing with a turd.
The only thing Tom did wrong is not have the show taken all the way off the air. If he would have done that then what would people have said?
I don’t care one way or the other, I just change the channel. Now if they had an episode with me in it calling God a jerk I would be offended enough to take action but until that time I’m just going to change the channel.

Didn't Tom Cruise say some stupid crap about depression being a made up illness? I guess if you are Tom Cruise, money can buy happiness. For the rest of us, there's Prozac.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Didn't Tom Cruise say some stupid crap about depression being a made up illness? I guess if you are Tom Cruise, money can buy happiness. For the rest of us, there's Prozac.

The Arch-Enemy of Scientologists is Psychiatrists.
Scientologists think Psychiatrists are a scam.

The whole thing about Scientology is removing the dead alien spirits that have inhabited humans, since the beginning of time, and hold you back from your true potental.
It's called "Auditing".
And they charge quite abit to remove these 1,000nds of spirits from you.
Over the course of decades.

Sound kinda like Psychiatry, huh?!
Removing or facing stuff that is buried, and is holding you back.

Scientologists hate of Psychiatrists is probibly based more on "Business Compitition" then anything else!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: This is what happens to people for whom everything is easily obtained; wealth, women, etc. They think they are somehow better than everyone else and cast their dispersions and begin to believe their own press thinking they know better and if everyone did as they say then all would be happy: Barbara Streisand, George Clooney, Ted Kennedy, and Susan Sarandon come to mind.

Easily obtained? Because they have talent and some genetic luck they didn't have to work to succeed in their field? Whatever. To the guy holding down the minimum wage job, you probably appear to have it pretty cushy. I'm sure that you would disagree, and argue that you have worked hard for what you have. It's all relative.

I think it is a responsibility for someone who has acheived some level of celebrity to take a stand for what they believe in. Otherwise, they're just some two dimensional figures that collect our money for being attractive. It doesn't seem to be as big of a problem for you with folks like Toby Keith, Clint Eastwood, Ron Silver, and Charlton Heston. Not that I have a problem with them either, but are you really bothered by politicized celebrities, or by their politics?

I don't this was a political thread. I'm more interested in the way he dogged Brooke Shields for using drugs to help her with her depression after her pregnancy. He knows nothing about pregnancy for sure, and probably doesn't know anything about depression either. You understand that drugs can help in those situations. Why would he go out and publicly attack her for it... One reason... He's a jerk.

This has nothing to do with politics.

Well Sothpark must believe in some kind of religion--they believe reincarnation--or the coming back from the dead to be a fact of life.
How many times have they killed Kenny now-but he still keeps coming back.
And yes, I used to watch it occasionally-when there was absolutely nothing else on--but it is truely one of the most stupid shows on TV imo.

quote Originally posted by Telegram Sam: ...I think it is a responsibility for someone who has acheived some level of celebrity to take a stand for what they believe in...

I think it's rather arrogant that they expect that there opinion is worth more than others - that they are somehow "enlightened" - just because they're celebrities. At least that's how they come across.
In reality, many of these so-called "enlightened" ones haven't even finished high school. Much less having been educated in the areas about which they are expressing an opinion. It's armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I stopped watching South Park when they started playing with a turd.

Yeah. that was pretty much a deal-breaker for me, too.
Fortunately, the turd only made occasional cameo appearances, so I didn't have to stop watching completely.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Telegraph Sam: I think it is a responsibility for someone who has acheived some level of celebrity to take a stand for what they believe in.

And I don't.
I pay them to entertain me.
They have the right to voice their opinion, as I have a right not to listen to it.
So the burden is on me to decide what I watch & don't watch, right?
But he infringed on my right to do that.

I pay him to entertain me.
I pay the cable channel to entertain me.
He saw a show he didn't like on a cable channel i pay for.
Why didn't he just not watch it?
Why did he tell me I couldn't watch it?

Is he saying, "I don't like what that show says about something I believe in. I don't want anyone to watch it."

If so, I don't pay him for that.
If he don't like it, don't watch it.
His choice.
Don't I get the same choice?

But I could be unique in my intrest in what "Celebs" do or think.
I don't watch talkshows with celeb guests.
I don't watch Carson, Leno, or Conan latenight shows with Celeb guests.
And I always thought a "Star" promoting a movie he's in, (and didn't even write!) or record was cheezy.
I don't care how "Celebs" live, what they think, who they date, conversations they had with "other celebs", etc.

I don't "buy" their personal life.
I buy their skill at entertaining me.

I don't meddle in thiers, and they should afford me the same cuortisy.

EDIT:
Whoops!
Sorry to Toddster & Telegraph Sam for the mix-up of who said what!!
It's fixed now.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-10-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Songman: I don't this was a political thread. I'm more interested in the way he dogged Brooke Shields for using drugs to help her with her depression after her pregnancy. He knows nothing about pregnancy for sure, and probably doesn't know anything about depression either. You understand that drugs can help in those situations. Why would he go out and publicly attack her for it... One reason... He's a jerk. This has nothing to do with politics.

It could be a thread like that, I agree. Yes, Tom Cruise is annoying. But look at Toddster's list. Tell me that it's not politics being forced into the topic. I guess I should just get used to every topic being polarized and politicized in that manner, but I'd rather watch a midget jump up and down on Oprah's couch.

Boondawg, Your quote is credited to Toddster but it is really Telegraph Sam who said that.. Not that it matters. just FYI.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: And I don't. I pay them to entertain me. They have the right to voice their opinion, as I have a right not to listen to it. So the burden is on me to decide what I watch & don't watch, right? But he infringed on my right to do that. I pay him to entertain me. I pay the cable channel to entertain me. He saw a show he didn't like on a cable channel i pay for. Why didn't he just not watch it? Why did he tell me I couldn't watch it? Is he saying, "I don't like what that show says about something I believe in. I don't want anyone to watch it." If so, I don't pay him for that. If he don't like it, don't watch it. His choice. Don't I get the same choice? But I could be unique in my intrest in what "Celebs" do or think. I don't watch talkshows with celeb guests. I don't watch Carson, Leno, or Conan latenight shows with Celeb guests. And I always thought a "Star" promoting a movie he's in, (and didn't even write!) or record was cheezy. I don't care how "Celebs" live, what they think, who they date, conversations they had with "other celebs", etc. I don't "buy" their personal life. I buy their skill at entertaining me. I don't meddle in thiers, and they should afford me the same cuortisy.

Quick, fix your quote before you give Toddster a cerebral hemmorage.

Let me clarify. I think that we ALL as responsible citizens of the world should take a stand for what we believe in. I would think that's something Toddster could stand by, even. This is in reference to celebs such as Streisand, Sarandon, et.al. who use their status as celebrities to advance a cause.

Now, as far as Cruise's tantrum censoring the programming on basic cable, yeah, that's a good reason to not like the guy. Ego gone wild.

proof that television causes brain rot.

It has nothing to do with Todd's cerebrum.. But there are people on this forum who only attack the words of certain people regardless of their stance... I just didn't want to confuse any of those people and make them think Todd might have changed his stance.