Formula, in your own post you contradict that statement with: "Did it ever occur to these people that maybe we've been cutting our driving down--but day in and day out you still have to go to work, so other than vacation road trips there's not a lot of fluff in the average family's gas budget to cut out. And yes, tourism has noticed a decline in business as people are taking fewer road trips and staying home more. [emphasis mine]
That IS supply and demand functioning the way it always does. Discretionary travel is what takes the hit. As you note, non-discretionary travel cannot be cut.
"I used to cruise around a lot and listen to music in my Fiero. It was one of my favorite pasttimes. When gas hit $2, I stopped doing that. Even so, it's not like I did it every day. We're still only talking about a 5 or maybe 10 gallon per week difference."
That's 5 or 10 gallons times one person. Multiply it by every car guy (gal) in the US and how many gallons does it come to? And the Fiero's reasonably fuel-efficient; what about the guys with the big-block motors in their cars, who get 5 MPG with a tailwind?
Ed
My point is that discretionary driving is such a small percentage of the typical person's driving that it won't impact gasoline demand to any significant amount - certainly not enough to cause prices to decline. We, as a nation, consume such a large quantity of motor fuel just doing required driving, shipping, etc., that even cutting out all discretionary driving won't drop the price. Saving millions of gallons of fuel a year will have miniscule effect when we consume millions of gallons of fuel per day.
This past year has already proven that. There were many news stories about decreased tourism as gas prices spiked. And the prices have stayed high regardless.
For supply and demand to work in a free market environment, a customer has to have the ability to do without a product, or to use a substitute product. There is no option for motor fuel that does that.
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09:01 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20658 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
My point is that discretionary driving is such a small percentage of the typical person's driving that it won't impact gasoline demand to any significant amount - certainly not enough to cause prices to decline. We, as a nation, consume such a large quantity of motor fuel just doing required driving, shipping, etc., that even cutting out all discretionary driving won't drop the price. Saving millions of gallons of fuel a year will have miniscule effect when we consume millions of gallons of fuel per day.
This past year has already proven that. There were many news stories about decreased tourism as gas prices spiked. And the prices have stayed high regardless.
For supply and demand to work in a free market environment, a customer has to have the ability to do without a product, or to use a substitute product. There is no option for motor fuel that does that.
You are exactly right. I know some people made reference that it is the free market that determines the oil prices, in a round about way, yes, but not completely, just as you say, there is no real alternative when it comes to fuel.
Heating homes and energy is different and does have alternatives. If you use heating oil, you can go to natural gas, propane, electric, and so on. In automobiles, it's just gasoline.
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09:13 AM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
I'm thinking my next big step on my new property will be installing solar power, and possibly a windmill. Some preliminary numbers indicate that the system might pay for itself. I'm not sure if it will generate all the power I need, but I'm sure it will help.
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12:08 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
All energy prices have increased. Natural Gas had som eo fth elargest spikes. Even electricity is 50% higher in CT than it was 2 years ago.
Natural gas prices spiked, but went back down quite a bit. Gas never did. Not sure about electricity, etc. I know in NC, our local natural gas company did three rate reductions in 3 consecutive months as the prices went down. They're still higher, but not to the extent of gasoline and heating oil.
Now thats the best Idea I think you have ever come up with.
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:
I'm thinking my next big step on my new property will be installing solar power, and possibly a windmill. Some preliminary numbers indicate that the system might pay for itself. I'm not sure if it will generate all the power I need, but I'm sure it will help.
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10:16 PM
Apr 21st, 2006
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
I was talking to Loyde earlier about converting the fiero to E85. I think im going to do it for a couple of reasons. First off, to see how it does on my turbocharged engine. Next, because E85 is way cheaper than 103 unlead. I was paying $7.40 a gallon for it. And, i think I will be able to make more power with it.
I have found two ways to save money on gas though, #1, dont drive as much. When you need to go a few places, plan them all on 1 outing. Instead of going from home to the store, and home and then to the mall, then to dinner, etc. Go to the mall, to dinner, then hit the store on the way back to the house. The 2nd way to save money on gas, get a hose and steal it from your neighbor.
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03:41 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
If you can't afford heating oil, can you afford to switch to another fuel source who's cost is also skyrocketing?
Yes. I know a number of people who switched from using their oil furnace to kerosene space heaters. Yes, the kerosene is more expensive too, but you use less of it because you're only heating the room you're in, not the whole house. Other people have switched to burning wood for heat.
It may not be an easy switch but it can be done.
For anyone who thinks the gas prices are up because of supply and demand need to look up oligopoly.
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03:58 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4257 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
Current prices and worries about future ones had me concerned enough to look into electric and even steam power for my car in place of an engine upgrade. After doing a lot of research, basically it costs more to do a conversion than you save from not buying gas. And no matter what the conversion is, you still need fuel from somewhere.
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04:11 PM
jconnor34 Member
Posts: 494 From: morton, il 61550 Registered: Oct 2005
Oil shortages? BS!!! The USA has access to more than enough oil deposits were it not for the environmentalist wacko weed nazis who obstruct drilling in AK and the Gulf while in the meantime Cuba will drill off the Gulf Coast, Mexico will drill in their backyard and who knows, perhaps the Russians will decide to drill off the Alaskan coast. As for refineries, maybe GM and Ford should get into the refinery business to supplement their fractured bottom lines? We've got the oil, we've got the potential of mega capacity if only someone had the b@lls to face up to the pinheads that fret over every leaf and tadpole. Who in the hell's in charge around here, anyway? I'm not going to turn my Fiero into an electric pull toy.
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08:32 PM
PFF
System Bot
Apr 22nd, 2006
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
