This is just for curiousity. I've been trying to find sites that detail home made aluminum frames with layers of carbon fibre on top or just complete carbon fibre automotive frames.

I understand the carbon fibre is very expensive... but am still wondering how difficult it would be to make an auto frame for a car... specifically one that wouldn't rust and weighs a lot less than their steel counterparts.

What are the pros and cons for this?

Anyone ever attempt this?

Not what you are looking for, but interesting.

http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~fsae/2004/thecar/thecar.html
Specifications:

The following are the specifications of the F04 car.

The 2004 University of Waterloo Formula SAE race car

Performance
0-100 km/h: under 4.0 seconds
Maximum speed: over 160km/h (gear limited)
Lateral acceleration (transient): 1.5g
Inline acceleration: 1.2g

General
Overall Length: 2800mm
Wheelbase: 1700mm
Track Front: 1193mm
Track Rear: 1168mm
Curb-weight: 204 kg (450 lb.)
Weight distribution F/R: 49:51
Fuel Type: 94 Octane

Chassis
Frame: Welded 1010 and 4130 steel tubing space frame with carbon fibre and aluminum honeycomb shear panels.
Bodywork: Aircraft fabric and with removable 2-ply carbon fibre front section.

Suspension
Parallel unequal length double A-arm, pull-rod actuated. Shuttle bar anti-roll system. Custom CNC aluminum uprights.

Dampers
Modified and tuned Taylor Racing dampers

Wheels
Keizer 13", custom centers

Tires
Dry: Hoosier R25A Bias-ply slick racing tires.
Wet: Goodyear Eagle racing tires

Brakes
Front: Outboard, machined steel rotors, Willwood Dynalite single calipers
Rear: Differential mounted, CNC machined steel rotor, Wilwood Dynalite single caliper

Cooling
Single custom Long radiator housed in the left side-pod. The shape of the side-pod and the air flow inside the pod have been optimized using extensive wind-tunnel testing.

Seat
One-piece ergonomically formed carbon fibre seat reinforced with Kevlar

Pedal Cluster
Adjustable acceleration and brake pedal cluster. Fits driver heights from 5'1" to 6'4".

Safety
Exceeds all Formula SAE impact regulations: 6-point safety harness, front aluminum honeycomb crumble structure, crushable carbon fibre composite side-pods, steel chain-guards, front and rear roll bars, rear brake light, and carbon fibre-aluminum honeycomb shear panels.

Instrumentation
Custom carbon firbe dash. Dash-mounted LED tachometer and Wolf3D ECU.

Powertrain
Naturally aspirated, dyno-tuned and modified Honda CBR F4i motorcycle engine
Displacement: 599 cc
Bore x Stroke: 67.0 x 42.5mm
Compression ratio: 13.5:1
Fuel and spark system: stock injectors, coils, regulators, and fuel rail
Engine management system: Wolf 3D
SAE horsepower: 80 hp @ 10,800 rpm
SAE torque: 45 ft-lbs @ 7,800 rpm
Intake manifold: Rear-facing custom rectangular carbon fibre design.
Air intake restrictor: Custom aluminum 20mm restrictor
Exhaust manifold: custom 4-2-1 exhaust pipe
Transmission: 6-speed manual sequential, 1st and 6th gears removed
Shifter: Clamshell mechanical shifter with optional 2nd-generation electro-pneumatic shifter.
Clutch: Integrated with solid-link shifter.
Traction Control: 1st generation student designed and built.

Drivetrain
Chain and sprocket, Zexel Torsen differential, custom CNC aluminum differential housing, torque-balanced custom drive shafts , and aluminum bearing housing.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-31-2005).]

I wouldn't build a frame of carbon fiber, simply because I couldn't trust it. All you need is one air bubble to really ruin your day, as a small bounce gives you a huge crack in your frame. If you've never used CF before, don't even consider it. If you have, consider changing your mind.

If you're serious about it, use titanium. It will probably weigh about the same, and give you better strength, and a higher trust ratio

How much is titanium? Higher cost than cf? What about welding it etc... how difficult to bend etc

Don't know, never worked with it. But it's as light as aluminum, and as strong as steel.

It's used in expensive bike frames all the time, so I imagine it can't be too difficult to bend or weld.

there was an allmost all alumimum Fiero built by AL-CAN
they used the basic Fiero frame but bonded [glued] it together
after it was stamped on the standerd machines for the steel bits
2 or 3 cars were made

one problem with carbon-fiber unlike fiber-glass is you cannot see thru it
to see air bubbles or dry bits of material
most carbon -fiber construction is vacumebagged and the cooked in ovens to cure

a part C/F part F/G frame could be made but tooling [ molds] would cost a lot
welded alloy would be a lot cheaper way to go the C/F or C/F + F/G
but a basic steel tube frame would still be lite and a lot cheaper
that how the IMSA cars were built

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Just had Morton finish building me a new machine shed. The crew foreman handed me his hammer, it weighed about 10 oz. He told me to drive a nail with it. It swung like a 22 oz hammer. Most of the head was titanium except the actual driving portion which was lead encased in titanium. If I were driving nails all day like he does, I'd want one too.

It only cost $240.

Maybe the Pentagon wasn't so far out of line with those $200 hammers??

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by headhunter: How much is titanium? Higher cost than cf? What about welding it etc... how difficult to bend etc

know of any sites that deal with custom automotive frames (any of the materials listed in this thread except steel).

would like to see some walkthroughs with any of the materials and mold designs.

Last I knew Titanium was about $17 a pound. You can weld it like steal but that takes the strength away from it. When shops make things out of Titanium they weld in a sealed environment using inert gas so that it doesn’t oxygenate. It's expensive but I would agree I would rather use Titanium than C/F

hmmmm... so for the ultimate custom home frame would be made o titanitum... interesting. Thanks.

Anyone know of websites with tubed auto/truck frames?

From someone who has made a carbon fiber frame(motorcycle). I would NOT recommend it for a home made frame.

It is expensive and unless you've cleverly planned out your frame, it will not work.

The stuff is extremely stiff and lightweight, but also extremely hard to work with(in the sense of frames).

Nothing wrong with chromoly steel frame. They can be made lightweight and are far less expensive. Also much better for the home frame builder.