I don't mind your opinion being different from mine, but I do dislike outright error.
1 God never cared about one tribe ONLY. He told the children of Israel that they were to be a special people. They were to represent God before other tribes in such an attractive manner that people in those other tribes would be attracted to God. He also said He wanted to bless other tribes through Israel. Therefore he didn't care only about one tribe and you are grossly in error. Later in the new testament it specifically says that it doesn't matter if you are jew or gentile, God is not a respecter of persons.
2 God isn't "sex hung up". God is very PRO-sex within the confines of a monogamous marriage, and orders husband and wife to have sex with each other on a regular basis. Just because possibly YOU see other uses for sex that varies from God's plan doesn't mean God is "hung-up".
3The ban on lobsters as food, and many other animals, was a restriction placed on the jews for a period of time, and has been lifted long ago--like about 2000 years.
4God didn't "need" a man to deliver HIS message. He said so in the Bible when He said He could have "...the rocks cry out..." about him if he so chose.
5 I'm not sure what you mean by "one dude at a time" since, for example, several of the old testament prophets that God used to write books of the Bible were contemporaries and prophesied during the same time period.
6 The having animals killed in his name--I assume you were referring to the sacrifice. It was supposed to be a VIVID, PICTORIAL depiction of the horrible consequences of sin, and what ultimately would happen to the Messiah. Since the Messiah has come, and had what was pictured done to him, there is no more killing of animals in his name. When in your lifetime has an animal been killed in his name. As far as I am aware, the only animal killing in anyone's name going on currently is in pagan or satanic religions.
That was SIX different things you posted, and you weren't even able to be correct on ONE of them.
If you wanted to be anti-God, or in your mind, anti-man's creation of god, you could at least try to have a correct reason.
Here's a question for you. You stated "...being good is morality..." Define "being good".
1 Dt.23:7 Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother. or 2 Kg.14:3, 7 And he [Amaziah] did that which was right in the sight of the LORD.... He slew of Edom in the valley of salt ten thousand. Ezek.25:13 "I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it." Ob. 1 Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom.... Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle. Ob. 8-9 Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau? And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
Ex.33:2 "And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
Jos.17:17-18 "For thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong." Jos.21:43-44 "And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand." Joshua 8:28 And Joshua burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day.
2 monogamous marriage??????
Gen.4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives. Gen.16:1-4 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived. Gen.25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had.... Gen.26:34 Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. Gen.28:9 Esau .. took ... Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael ... to be his wife. Gen.31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels. Ex.21:10 If he take him another wife.... Dt.21:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated.... Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives. 1 Sam.1:1-2 Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah. 2 Sam.12:7-8 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives.... 1 Kg.11:2-3 Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines. 1 Chr.4:5 And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah. 2 Chr.11:21 Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines. 2 Chr.13:21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives.... 2 Chr.24:3 Jehoiada took for him two wives.... Mt.25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
and she betternot be on the rag
How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished? He shall be unclean for seven days. He and the woman shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev.15:24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.
Lev.20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn
3 Lk.16:17 "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Ps.119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."
Lev.23:14,21,31 "It shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations."
Ps.119:151-2 "Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever." 4 I have never heard a rock cry out
5 most were one at a time
6 Gen.4:4 "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering." Gen.8:20-21 "And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour." Gen.15:9-10 "And he [God] said unto him [Abraham], Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another." Ex.20:24 "An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee." Ex.29:11-37 "And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD...." Lev.1:5 "And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD...." (See all of Chapters 1 - 9) Lev.23:12-18 "And ye shall offer ... an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD...." Num.18:17-19 "Thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD." Dt.12:27 "And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh."
all 6 wrong well your book backs my spin not your handwaving BS
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
IP: Logged
11:38 PM
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
I dont remember his name, but the man who sacrificed his daughter committed two terrible crimes
first he boasted that he would sacrifice "whatever walked through his front gate" when he returned from battle - that was boasting out of pride and arrogance
second, when it turned out to be his daughter, he did not repent of his boast, but instead killed his own daughter. He did this to cover his own butt (to keep from breaking his vow)
he serves as an example of what NOT to do. Im surprized I even have to explain that - it should be obvious.
[This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 06-19-2005).]
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11:11 AM
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: thats the point - God hold the guilty accountable, in His time, in His way
God lets things happen because He gave us a free will, stopping bad things would negate our free will
I always love that "free will" excuse when it appears that HE AIN"T THERE. A murderer's free will is more important than the victim's life?
quote
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: I dont remember his name, but the man who sacrificed his daughter committed two terrible crimes
first he boasted that he would sacrifice "whatever walked through his front gate" when he returned from battle - that was boasting out of pride and arrogance
second, when it turned out to be his daughter, he did not repent of his boast, but instead killed his own daughter. He did this to cover his own butt (to keep from breaking his vow)
he serves as an example of what NOT to do. Im surprized I even have to explain that - it should be obvious.
My point was that a lot of burnt offerings were barbaric, and far from edible. One was a whole town, people and all.
Music, poetry and art can be explained as created to attract a mate. Look at Mick Jagger. How could he have gotten anyone without being a musician? There are explanations for these in both worldviews. But the need for a creator?
[/QUOTE
Woah there!! Just because you consider somebody to be ugly, and therefore unlovable, is a very flawed outlook!! In fact, I am surprised you should draw any sort of value from such a bigoted view!!
------------------ fierofetish.PFF'S self-confessed Snowbird!! Responsibilty: the solution for our World's Dilemmas..
Music, poetry and art can be explained as created to attract a mate. Look at Mick Jagger. How could he have gotten anyone without being a musician? There are explanations for these in both worldviews. But the need for a creator?
[/QUOTE
Woah there!! Just because you consider somebody to be ugly, and therefore unlovable, is a very flawed outlook!! In fact, I am surprised you should draw any sort of value from such a bigoted view!!
You took me out of context twofold. First, you assume that I was speaking from my own worldview, when I am trying to understand the opposition view, which would be strictly Darwinist. Second, you assumed, wrongly, that ugly = unlovable, also in my view.
Ugly people fall in love all the time, get married and have families. Mostly with other ugly people. To get a Jerry Hall (for example), he had to be a musician. This, of course, is sheer survival of the fittest. The Darwinist view smiles on the healthy, strong and attactive and against the weak, frail and ugly.
A theocentric view, in which God cares for all of His creation, would not be, as you put it, so bigoted.
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11:25 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
if there is no God then how does that work? what is the mechanism behind it?
Dont say karma - that is a religious principle that requires some universal force (god) which causes us to return life after life, based on what we have done so far - otherwise we would skip around the universe at random, and no matter what we did there would be no real consequences
'what comes around' only happens if someone or something is there to make it come back to you.
Evolution :-) Human Psychology etc... it's a learned trait in most civilizations that working and playing well with others is a win/win.
"Bad" people often get away with bad things, doesn't matter if they are religous/believe in god/are atheists. If it comforts some that "They'll get theirs in the afterlife" then they sleep better.
"Good" people suffer and die in horrible ways at the hands of religous people/ atheists and random acts. Sorry, no one said the universe was fair... but religon gives a comfort level that they will be rewarded somehow in an afterlife... comforting.
I prefer to live as well as I can in the chaos, hopefully leaving behind people that love and respect me... but in a hundred years/a millenium/ a billion years.... who will care and what will my life have meant in the grand scheme. Not much, enjoy.
I think my elements were much more impressive when they formed as part of sun than being part of me wondering if I forgot to take the garbage out to the curb.
IP: Logged
11:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jun 20th, 2005
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
I would counter that "Christian" is, then, different by your definition than mine. "Dude, Jesus was this real cool guy." is notmy idea of a Christian. I'm not saying that it's yours, either, but many people of all stripes point to His teaching without pointing to other faciets of His life, His message and the circumstances of His life and death. Without getting into it too deeply, these facts have a different effect on each of our lives. I would like them to be the same for us all, but each of us comes to that point of decision, a point with His Spirit on our own, and our own decision on how to act.
These godly evolutionists have their view about the Bible, and that's fine. They will change their view or they won't. Perhaps they seek ways in which God affected evolution. I would say that they are not evil people, but their view is diffrent, and, when we are done with our journey, either A) we will all just cease to exist, or B) they'll be in some deep doo-doo.
I still see the two worldviews as incompatible.
I love this,"If there is a God, those guys are going to Hell". Who says your interpretation of scripture is right? The Roman Catholic Church doesn't have a problem with evolution, and I'd say the Pope has a pretty good idea how to interpret scripture. I believe Protestants are OK with it too.
Your wanting scripture to be grounded in the physical world makes you a materialist.
"The Bible is about how to go to heaven, and not how the heavens go" - Unknown
There are explanations for these in both worldviews. But the need for a creator?
