Someone gave me a Saintsong Espresso Mini-PC, because he was having problems with it freezing 10 seconds after boot-up. He just got fed up with it and bought a new one so he gave me the old one.

After I took it apart, it became obvious immediately the P3 700Mhz wasn't getting sufficient cooling. The Socket (type 370) and its cooler was obviously made for the old PPGA package, which means that once you insert a FC-PGA package CPU, there is quite a large gap between the CPU and the cooler. They filled this gap with a huge thermal pad.

I removed the cooler and replaced it with an old 486 cooler and the result was that the P3 no longer crashed. In fact, it was quite stable. But since there was no way to fasten the cooler, I wanted the original cooler again, so I used a trick a have used quite a few times in situations like this: inside the Socket, I placed a small piece of rubber which was slightly higher than the socket. This way, if you insert the CPU, it will be raised just a little bit - but not too much so the CPU pins don't make contact.

But this socket is a "snap-in" socket. This means you don't have a release lever, you just insert the CPU and slide it to the side with a flat screwdriver to lock it. So I wasn't all to sure it would make sufficient contact. I decided to try it anyway.

Anyway, the machine wouldn't boot. I figured it wasn't making proper contact so I removed the piece of rubber again and inserted the CPU normally. It wouldn't boot either. Now I was getting concerned I might have fried the CPU -or worse- the Espresso. So I went through my box with old CPUs and found a Celeron PPGA 366. Now the Espresso booted fine. Figuring it must be the old processor I had fried, I went back to my CPU box again and found a Celeron 566 FC-PGA. I inserted it and again it wouldn't boot.

Now the Espresso is suitable for both PPGA and FC-PGA package processors. The original processor (from which it will no longer boot) and the 566 Celeron (from which it also doesn't boot) are FC-PGAs, while the 366 (which is working fine) is PPGA.

So what have I fried? I don't think I still have a socket 370 mobo around somewhere, so I can't test the FC-PGAs on another machine.

PS: Even though it won't boot with a FC-PGA processor, the processor itself still heats up (so it *is* getting power).

Is it supposed to auto-detect which chip is installed? IIRC, The specs vary so differently between the two, that I wonder if a jumper (or a BIOS setting) would need to be changed.
I'm basing my statement on the old BP6 (PPGA) that I used to run. I was looking for a way to run FCPGA chips in it, and it was going to be a real pain in the posterior. Several pins and (IIRC) voltages were different.

Just suck it up and live with the 366mhz

Maybe the processor still isn't making contact on all the pins - did you try a rubber mallet (don't want to break it afterall..)

Actually, first thing that comes to my mind is voltages - the higher speeds typically run on lower voltages... Maybe when you put the 366 in, it turned up the voltage, and instantly fried the other two when you put them in? (And then since it still doesn't know what processor's there, keeps it at that voltage) I donno... just a thought.

If I remember correctly, the difference between the PPGA and FC-PGA pinouts is only 2 pins (which are transposed). I don't remember which ones. Plus, the CPU voltage needs to be lower for the FC-PGA CPUs.

It looks to me like the Espresso just doesn't like FC-PGA processors. Motherboards usually auto-detect processors, but it wouldn't hurt to run through the BIOS and see if there's some option that has to be changed. Also, you could try manually reducing the CPU voltage, and re-trying the FC-PGA CPUs.

I'm guessing the motherboard must be pretty old. It might be getting flaky. You may end up just having to live with a PPGA processor, or just get rid of the board. I think the PPGA Celerons were available up to 566MHz (or was it 533?). If you were able to find one, that would be an option. Good luck finding one, though.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-02-2004).]

There are no dipswitches or jumpers on the board and it should auto-detect if a PPGA or a FC-PGA CPU is installed. Mind you, the 700Mhz worked perfectly at first (other than it crashing after 10 seconds) but it suddenly stopped working. Only then did I try the PPGA.

There aren't many differences between a PPGA and an FC-PGA, only 4 pins or so. FC-PGA is backwards compatible with PPGA, that's why it's not necesarry to set jumpers or dipswitches. All a motherboard has to do is check if a certain pin is high or low.

I guess if you REALLY want to keep that board, and run a P3 on it, you could buy one of these. Although you could probably get a replacement motherboard just as cheap. **shrug**

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-02-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I guess if you REALLY want to keep that board, and run a P3 on it, you could buy one of these. Although you could probably get a replacement motherboard just as cheap. **shrug**

I actually have the Powerleap Neo370.

I tried it and it didn't work, which is really strange since the PPGA Celeron works in this mobo, but a FC-PGA on the Powerleap doesn't.

The reason I want to keep this motherboard:

I've included a AA battery in the picture for size. This thing is small! It has two USB ports, onboard Audio (in & out), onboard VGA and TV out (Pal & NTSC). The space to the left of the CPU is exactly the size of a laptop HD and can be directly connected to the black connector you see.

Anyway, I just measured the voltages on some pins, and either the mobo doesn't detect FC-PGAs anymore or both my FC-PGA processors are fried.

Did you (or anyone else) use thermal compound? (white greasey stuff) Perhaps some of that got into a hole or two, and is preventing a connection? there may have been a little of it on one of the pads...

You might not have shorted anything out, or released the magic smoke afterall...

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 11-02-2004).]

quote Cliff Pennock said: I tried it [Neo370] and it didn't work, which is really strange...

Yeah, that is strange. Just out of curiosity, was the P3 700MHz the original CPU in that computer? At this point, I'm willing to bet the motherboard is going bad.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Yeah, that is strange. Just out of curiosity, was the P3 700MHz the original CPU in that computer?

Yes it was.