Oh no... Argentina was a shining example of IMF induced free trade and capitalism. It was, in fact, the IMF's crown jewel until it fell apart. You can read any number of articles on Argentina's collapse in the Economist and though they won't blame capitalism, they wont deny Argentina is capitalist. Sure there are retards (present company excluded, of course) who think it was some kind of nazi communist government USSR satellite, but that's just cognitive dissonance. Capitalism failed them.

Besides, there are hundreds of other nations the IMF has tried to jumpstart that have failed through capitalism. You are still over simplifying, Toddster. I think that's the problem with conservatives, they refuse to think about more tahn one variable. If you start to think to much, you might start to think of something better. Apparently, that's just no good.

What you have to see is all countries are a bit socialist. This is, to use your "communism doesn’t work, look at the USSR" logic, there are no purely capitalist countries. None exist because it is IMPOSSIBLE. Pure capitalism DOESN’T WORK AT ALL. So much so, that not a single one has ever existed for any length of time.

The US, with its multibillion dollar welfare program for airlines, Amtrak and energy companies, not to mention billions in tax abatements to larger corporations at the expense of smaller ones, and the way the treasury manipulates currency and it's apparent selective enforcement of free trade agreements. In fact, the only thing the US doesn’t give its money away to are its poor.

As for your indifference to the poor, I’ve found that being middle class is hard on the psyche, they actually have fooled themselves into thinking they've earned everything they have. No one is asking you to put the poor in Cadillacs - just so they stay healthy enough to pick up your garbage. Is that really too much to ask?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Then go help them. I admire your humanity. But don't try to legislate that philosophy and force ME and every other American to do so too. I am not opposed to helping my fellow man. In fact, I am very much in favor of it. But I have my own ideas about the best way to do it and they do not seem to conform to yours. and Argentine? Capitalist? Military dictatorship for most of it's existence, and corrupt autocratic "democratic" rule for the rest. In fact, Argentine is involved in just about every business enterprise in the country. I did a report in College on (of all things) an Argentinian tampon factory. The government owned most of the company. Hardly capitalistic.

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 06-23-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: Besides, there are hundreds of other nations the IMF has tried to jumpstart that have failed through capitalism. You are still over simplifying, Toddster. I think that's the problem with conservatives, they refuse to think about more tahn one variable. If you start to think to much, you might start to think of something better. Apparently, that's just no good.

Now you're just being silly Jeremiah. I think very HARD about ways to improve our imperfect system. And you know that. We just have different views of how to do that.

I would rather eliminate, despair and hopelessness and hunger with better education, better families, better opportunities for business-people to grow and prosper.

You would rather have the hard working people of this country give them a hand-out. That solves their short-term problem but what happens next week? Do we have to support the indigent for the restof our lives? No thanks. There is a better, cheaper, long term solution to these social problems.

You just want the wealthy to cut a check in the vein hopes that the problem will go away. So who is over-simplifying?

No. I already told you I am not in favor of a welfare state. What I'm talking about is fair access to medication and significant improvement in our education system, grants and secured loans for poor children as well as educational services to inform them of these programs. Certain welfare programs I do support, like food stamps and energy assistance and subsidized public transportation tokens (or however they work).

I don't believe in cutting checks to the poor because they are poor. If they are mentally deficient they should be entitled to a comfortable life when they cannot provide one for themselves. If they are disabled, they should be supported to the extent that their disability does not relegate them to live on the streets. But such 'fair use' programs require considerably more money than just cutting a check. They require social staff to ensure people are finding jobs and not abusing the system. In the long run, my idea will end up costing more, I believe, but will have a higher return - namely people will be able to contribute to society and receive some form of taxable income which they can then use to spend on taxed goods and services.

But, I'm an idealist.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Now you're just being silly Jeremiah. I think very HARD about ways to improve our imperfect system. And you know that. We just have different views of how to do that. I would rather eliminate, despair and hopelessness and hunger with better education, better families, better opportunities for business-people to grow and prosper. You would rather have the hard working people of this country give them a hand-out. That solves their short-term problem but what happens next week? Do we have to support the indigent for the restof our lives? No thanks. There is a better, cheaper, long term solution to these social problems. You just want the wealthy to cut a check in the vein hopes that the problem will go away. So who is over-simplifying?

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: No. I already told you I am not in favor of a welfare state. What I'm talking about is fair access to medication and significant improvement in our education system, grants and secured loans for poor children as well as educational services to inform them of these programs. Certain welfare programs I do support, like food stamps and energy assistance and subsidized public transportation tokens (or however they work). I don't believe in cutting checks to the poor because they are poor. If they are mentally deficient they should be entitled to a comfortable life when they cannot provide one for themselves. If they are disabled, they should be supported to the extent that their disability does not relegate them to live on the streets. But such 'fair use' programs require considerably more money than just cutting a check. They require social staff to ensure people are finding jobs and not abusing the system. In the long run, my idea will end up costing more, I believe, but will have a higher return - namely people will be able to contribute to society and receive some form of taxable income which they can then use to spend on taxed goods and services. But, I'm an idealist.

This is exactly the kind of thing that drives me crazy. You say you are not in favor of a welfare state but in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE you say the poor should have fair access to medication, etc. etc. etc.

OK, first, define "fair". I'll bet I can guess what you think fair is but I'd like to hear you say it anyway.

Secondly, WHO PAYS for this "fair" access?

Thridly, loans? For what? and who decides who gets the loans and how much do they get? How are they expected to repay the loans AND MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL, where does the money being loaned come from?

Fourth, Food Stamps works? are you kidding? Its the biggest government subsedized scam on Earth. I know people who have bought TVs with food stamps (my brother's old room-mate). He had every food stamp scam on Earth down to a science. If there is one system we need overhauled more than anyother it is food stamps!

Lastly, let's look at this from my standpoint. I work pretty hard every day. Just look at how many Fieros I restore regularly in my SPARE time! And With the money that I earn I pay Uncle Sam a huge chunk already! Then I have bills. then I have health Insurance for my own family, dental, Kid's college funds, etc. And after ALL OF THAT...I take the meager rations left and give some to the loacl church thaqt runs a day care for working mothers, My alma-mater, HIPS (Head Injured Pals) and organization founded by a friend of mine who suffered a serious head injury in a car crash, and a handful of other charities THAT IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII have decided deserve my cash-ola!

Now in all of your posts you have failed to answer the two most basic questions:

1) Where does the money come from to do all this "good" you speak of (rhetorical, but an acknowledgement that you understand would be nice)

2) Who are you, or ANYONE ELSE, to tell me that I MUST give because YOU have decided who deserves MY MONEY!?!?!?!?

I'll help. There are two answers to #2: 1) I'm a communist, or 2) I guess I am mistaken, no one has that right.

Heh, there you go again...

Let me ask you this, WHO ARE YOU to decide these people must die when they already live in the richest nation on the earth?
When their only crime was being indigent you would rather them DIE for it?

Where the hell do you think you live, man? Look around you. Do you see a dirty river filled with typhoid out your back door? NO. You live in America and you are obligated, by virtue of your fortunate stature which you were BORN INTO, to assist those who were not "qualified" to eat the gum on your shoe.

Toddster, you did nothing more than have the fortune to be born in this country and you think someone else has to be DESERVING of YOUR compassion to benefit from the same hospital you go to is nothing less than avarice. Is that how we should be? An avaricious nation filled with dispassionate people who refuse to help even their own poor while dumping BILLIONS into industries that haven't turned a profit in 10, 20 years? IS THIS YOUR UTOPIA?

The answer to 1 is self evident and the answer to 2 is clear: First, you’re a Christian and that obligates you to the aid of the poor. Second, I'm an American that's seen the worst we can do to our own people and I know we can do better.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: This is exactly the kind of thing that drives me crazy. You say you are not in favor of a welfare state but in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE you say the poor should have fair access to medication, etc. etc. etc. OK, first, define "fair". I'll bet I can guess what you think fair is but I'd like to hear you say it anyway. Secondly, WHO PAYS for this "fair" access? Thridly, loans? For what? and who decides who gets the loans and how much do they get? How are they expected to repay the loans AND MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL, where does the money being loaned come from? Fourth, Food Stamps works? are you kidding? Its the biggest government subsedized scam on Earth. I know people who have bought TVs with food stamps (my brother's old room-mate). He had every food stamp scam on Earth down to a science. If there is one system we need overhauled more than anyother it is food stamps! Lastly, let's look at this from my standpoint. I work pretty hard every day. Just look at how many Fieros I restore regularly in my SPARE time! And With the money that I earn I pay Uncle Sam a huge chunk already! Then I have bills. then I have health Insurance for my own family, dental, Kid's college funds, etc. And after ALL OF THAT...I take the meager rations left and give some to the loacl church thaqt runs a day care for working mothers, My alma-mater, HIPS (Head Injured Pals) and organization founded by a friend of mine who suffered a serious head injury in a car crash, and a handful of other charities THAT IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII have decided deserve my cash-ola! Now in all of your posts you have failed to answer the two most basic questions: 1) Where does the money come from to do all this "good" you speak of (rhetorical, but an acknowledgement that you understand would be nice) 2) Who are you, or ANYONE ELSE, to tell me that I MUST give because YOU have decided who deserves MY MONEY!?!?!?!? I'll help. There are two answers to #2: 1) I'm a communist, or 2) I guess I am mistaken, no one has that right.

I think it a shame Clinton isn't still in the white house. Just think of it after 911 he would have just bombed a hospital or orphanage declaired victory and that would have been that.

Earl, Do you recon Clinton would have landed on an aircraft carrier and spiked the ball at the fifty yard line for a photo op?

For a photo op I think he would have stood on his head as well!

[This message has been edited by Earl (edited 06-24-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Earl: I think it a shame Clinton isn't still in the white house. Just think of it after 911 he would have just bombed a hospital or orphanage declaired victory and that would have been that.

Wow, Clinton hasn't been mentioned since like page 3. Tell me it didn't take you that long to come up with that one?

Nope I just cant spend all day reading this forum. I have to catch up when I can. Now back to General Fiero Chat. Be Back Latter

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: you are obligated, by virtue of your fortunate stature which you were BORN INTO, to assist those who were not "qualified" to eat the gum on your shoe.

You've answered the question...even though you have tried REALLY hard to avoid doing so.

You are a communist.

Communism doesn't work for the reasons already stated and proved in the real world. You need to re-assess your priorities.

The answer is YES, they do deserve to starve. Sound cruel? Sound un-Christen? Let's get one thing straight, to help others to the point at which YOU YOURSELF starve and fail to pay your bills isn't Christen it is simply stupid. Altruism is a myth Jeremiah. it does not exist since, by definition, you can not be self-less. Dead tax payers are of no use to anyone. And if you keep taxing me to death THEN what happens to your starving mentally disabled masses?

Stop trying to use God to "guilt" me into giving until it hurts. My own rector can't do it to me face to face so what makes you think YOU can? And as for being born into good fortune you have to be joking? John Kerry is swimming in F****** money!! He can STILL afford to drive a new Bentley every day of the week AFTER he makes his yearly donation and YET...you would have me cough-up more?

You still don't get it! You ...can...not...force...another...human...being...to...think...your...way! You can't force someone to work for you, to sacrifice for you, or to just plain give a damn about you. If people DO care about you it is because you EARNED it, not because you legislated it into the rule book.

I choose to reap the rewards of the sweat of my own labors and I choose to give some of that reward away...to whom I choose...and on my own terms! THAT is the answer to your question. I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY, "SORRY BUT YOU DESERVE TO DIE IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF." I don't owe ANYONE a life since life is NOT the most important thing in the world, freedom is. And I can point to a hundred battlefields around the world with the twisted bodies of American Soldiers who went in harms way for that very reason and PROVED it with their own blood.

I'd rather die than "exist" as a slave to serve YOUR concept of a higher moral purpose. I see NO morality in slavery. Sorry you disagree. And frankly, I pity you that you do.

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Earl, Do you recon Clinton would have landed on an aircraft carrier and spiked the ball at the fifty yard line for a photo op?

Spike the ball on the 50? He'd have been too busy crawling up some cheerleader's skirt in search of the "vast right wing conspiracy".

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Well seeing as you are painting me as some kind of freeloader I guess I'll have to respond to your non sense. What I said was the money spent across the nation by our fed govt is what kept tuition down at my local community colleges. There was a lot of fed money for the states a few years back, and that helped every aspect of our lives as US citizens, yes even you. You fail to realize that as a nation we all have to look out for our institutions, structure, and people. Not only did it help me by keeping tuition affordable, but it also kept my state and local taxes lower. I'm sure it helped your community as well. Maybe your state repaved roads, fixed up elementary schools, or built a new police dept. Fortunately for me when CT got some of our nations surplus under Clintons term, my state decided to put money into our education system. Thats how I was helped by the fed government. Don't try to spin me into me being some low life welfare recipient. As a matter of fact I am pretty offended by that, you are pretty quick to judge aren't you. I don't go around judging you because your wife wasn't around when your kids grew up. If you read the whole thread you would have seen that we already went over this. I pay my way. Just because I mentioned that I was having a tough time keeping afloat that doesn't automatically mean I was some kind of hand out recipient. I am thankful for having the opportunity to be able to continue school and to be able to afford it thanks to people who think differently than you. Its because of people like you that think only of themselves that I usually happen to side with the democrats. I'm sure if you were running the country we would be rid of all those silly community colleges and all that wasted pell grant money. Because after all its freeloaders like myself who go to these "places". Why should we as a nation spend any money on Education, that should be left up to our state and local goverenments overflowing with surpluses right. ANd if the local community can't afford to keep tuition low enough for people like me to go then F$*k em, right? Affordable community college is just a handout and place for freeloading welfare recipients.

I'm sorry, you ARE a freeloader. I worked my way through school, WAITED until I was married, and could afford to feed clothe and educate my children, BEFORE I had them. Now my earnings are being conficicated to feed, clothe, and educate your fat arse. Socialist jerkoffs like you are what's wrong with this country. I don't know which makes me angrier; the fact that you think you're entitled to my earnings or the fact that your vote is worth exactly the same as mine.

Originally posted by Toddster:
[QUOTE]The answer is YES, they do deserve to starve. Sound cruel?[QUOTE]

That was the first thing Hitler did.
Get rid of the "Lesser Humans".

[QUOTE]Sound un-Christen? Let's get one thing straight, to help others to the point at which YOU YOURSELF starve and fail to pay your bills isn't Christen it is simply stupid. Altruism is a myth Jeremiah. it does not exist since, by definition, you can not be self-less.[QUOTE]

But THAT'S exactly what Jesus SAID to do.
Rather then have a Man steal from you, give him everything he ask's.
Even the shirt off your back.
Thieve's live in darkness.
We must be their light.

[QUOTE]Stop trying to use God to "guilt" me into giving until it hurts.[QUOTE]

"The quality of mercy is not strained"

[QUOTE]I DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY, "SORRY BUT YOU DESERVE TO DIE IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF."[QUOTE]

What if Hospitals or Doctors felt that same way?

Their Credo: Do No Harm.
Good words to live by.

No one is taxing anyone into poverty here. As for Kerry, he earned his position at the top in the exact same way you earned your position in the middle - you were BORN there. In the end, Toddster, no matter how much you cry and whine, you will end up picking up the tab for these people. You can either do it in ways that encourage or force them into a working society or you can pay though increased insurance premiums as they steal health care, cars, and YOUR property. (God forbid one of them have the need to just outright shoot you)

If demanding those who live in the glory of the one true Nation give a little of themselves so others may prosper is communist then Jesus Christ was Karl Marx.

quote Originally posted by Toddster:

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: No one is taxing anyone into poverty here. As for Kerry, he earned his position at the top in the exact same way you earned your position in the middle - you were BORN there. In the end, Toddster, no matter how much you cry and whine, you will end up picking up the tab for these people. You can either do it in ways that encourage or force them into a working society or you can pay though increased insurance premiums as they steal health care, cars, and YOUR property. (God forbid one of them have the need to just outright shoot you) If demanding those who live in the glory of the one true Nation give a little of themselves so others may prosper is communist then Jesus Christ was Karl Marx.

I'm not the one crying and whining Jeremiah. In case it's escaped you, YOU ARE. I'm not the one crying for the poor and destitute. You make it sound like I have no choice and the matter has been decided. Got news for ya Jeremiah, you are the one on the losing end. Socialism is a universal failure. And I have the confidence of a man who believes that people (at least most people) learn from their mistakes and have given communism the heave-ho it so richly deserves. Altruism is dead Jeremiah. Get used to it.

As for Kerry, He was not born into wealth, he MARRIED IT! He is a social climber who stumbnled onto a good deal. And in case you still miss the point, I am not bashing him for it. Let him keep it all. If it is important to him then who am I to say he doesn't deserve his fortune.

Christ WAS Marx. You're learning.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: What if Hospitals or Doctors felt that same way?

Uh..they do. Where have you been for the last 40 years? People are turned away from Hospitals all the time and in case you haven't been following the progres of countries with socialized medicine like Canada, Australia, and France; health care is a nightmare. Take a number, wait in line, and try not to die while waiting 2 years for your surgery performed on an assembly line by some minimum wage physician fresh out of residency. Yep, social medicine is a wonderful idea

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-24-2004).]

quote Originally posted by larryemory: I'm sorry, you ARE a freeloader. I worked my way through school, WAITED until I was married, and could afford to feed clothe and educate my children, BEFORE I had them. Now my earnings are being conficicated to feed, clothe, and educate your fat arse. Socialist jerkoffs like you are what's wrong with this country. I don't know which makes me angrier; the fact that you think you're entitled to my earnings or the fact that your vote is worth exactly the same as mine.

I have worked since I was 13 and paid taxes since I was 16, I have worked fulltime since I turned 17. So what makes the loans and grants I recieved your money, and not mine. I had been paying taxes for 4 years before I ever started college. So that means it was as much MY money that helped me and the thousands like me as it was yours. And for the record I am neither fat nor lazy. You however sound like a whiny mullet haired rebel flag waving asshat.

This is the UNITED States of America, that means the federal government holds us all under its umbrella of protection. I secured a federal education loan, because I was not required to pay it until I was finished with school. That got me through the first year, then I paid for the next 3 with a mix of what I could afford and what grants I was awarded for being a good student. Did I fill out a form asking for a federal pell grant to help me pay for tuition? You bet I did, and if you were in my situation you would have too. Life is tough, and I was willing to use any means necessary to make it. I will admit that I did actually get a pell grant, but that is barely a drop in the bucket. I wanted to go to college and I worked full time, but with no formal education you can barely get enough money to feed yourself let alone pay thousands of dollars in tuition, books, travel, and still have time for homework.

Now throw in the reality of marriage and children and where do I stand?
I was LUCKY enough to meet the girl that I will spend my life with at that school, and we have a daughter. No it wasn't planned that way, but I made it work. I got the best job that would have me, and then did all I could to continue school. Children are born to millions of people in this country every year, don't try to tell me that they are all planned. I never took food stamps, I didn't go to the welfare office and give up, I finished school, akept a family together, and got a great job in Graphic Design.

Show me how you are better than me, I am an American that contributes to society. If it bothers you that America helped me become a college graduate, then stop paying your taxes and move to Mexico.

280 million people live in this country, the majority of which pay taxes.
My family is better off because of the collective power of us all.
America is all about a better life, and my hard work mixed with good will has achieved a part of that.

Edit: My sister recieved fed loans and grants throughout her education, and now she works for an organization that helps abused children find foster homes. She pays taxes and probably does more for society than all of us here combined. Her fiance is a city police officer. Will you all call her a fat, lazy, freeloader simply because she tried her best to afford college in any way possible? Neither her nor I would have been able to go to college without them? There were times where I saw her cry in frustration from not being able to get loans for her next semester, did I point at her scoldingly and call her a freeloader?

Thats it, I am sick of being painted as a freeloader, liberal, screwup. I am a hard working American. I WORKED for what I have. Period.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-24-2004).]

Ahahah... yeah. I'm losing. Bush just passes the largest (though incomplete) reform to Medicare and I'm losing.
No sir, socialism will always prevail because old people are poor and vote in droves. Poor people vote in droves. You are in a stingy minority of people who will always see your income etched away because some poor sap need medical attention.

Public hospitals must accept emergency cases. Where the hell do you live?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I'm not the one crying and whining Jeremiah. In case it's escaped you, YOU ARE. I'm not the one crying for the poor and destitute. You make it sound like I have no choice and the matter has been decided. Got news for ya Jeremiah, you are the one on the losing end. Socialism is a universal failure. And I have the confidence of a man who believes that people (at least most people) learn from their mistakes and have given communism the heave-ho it so richly deserves. Altruism is dead Jeremiah. Get used to it. As for Kerry, He was not born into wealth, he MARRIED IT! He is a social climber who stumbnled onto a good deal. And in case you still miss the point, I am not bashing him for it. Let him keep it all. If it is important to him then who am I to say he doesn't deserve his fortune. Christ WAS Marx. You're learning.

------------------
84 Fiero with a 2.8 V6 and Isuzu 5-speed 0-60 in 6.9sec.

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: You are in a stingy minority .... Public hospitals must accept emergency cases. Where the hell do you live?

If by "stingy minority" you mean those that do the work so that the rest can live off our labors then I guess you're right. Thank God you are wrong. Do you know how I know you are wrong? Because I can stop working any tiem I like. Then how are you going to tax me? You going to point a gun at my head and make me work? That's been done before...in the old Soviet Union. And it didn't work.

Any of this sinking in?

And Public Hospitals do NOT have to accept emergency cases unless the[patient is in eminent danger of dying. They can refuse ANYONE at ANYTIME. I live in The United States of America.

NO. Public hospitals may NOT reject emergency cases. If you're just going to make **** up, I don't see how we can continue along this discussion.

If you want to quit working, then do it. No one is forcing you to work.

Of course, there is no welfare system to pay your bills if you do... but at least you wont starve

quote Originally posted by Toddster: If by "stingy minority" you mean those that do the work so that the rest can live off our labors then I guess you're right. Thank God you are wrong. Do you know how I know you are wrong? Because I can stop working any tiem I like. Then how are you going to tax me? You going to point a gun at my head and make me work? That's been done before...in the old Soviet Union. And it didn't work. Any of this sinking in? And Public Hospitals do NOT have to accept emergency cases unless the[patient is in eminent danger of dying. They can refuse ANYONE at ANYTIME. I live in The United States of America.

[This message has been edited by Jeremiah (edited 06-25-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Jeremiah: NO. Public hospitals may NOT reject emergency cases. If you're just going to make **** up, I don't see how we can continue along this discussion.

Here is the phone number for Kaiser. 1-800-464-4000
Now stop wasting my time with this tangent and let's get back to the flaws with the Communist Ideology.

quote If you want to quit working, then do it. No one is forcing you to work.

YOU are forcing me to. Or at least you would if you get your way. So which is it? Do I have the right to make decisions for my own life or not? If so then you agree with my position. If not, then you are in favor of forcing people to act in the interests of others against their will. Reagan once said that you can spot a Communist because they read Marx and Lenin. And you can spot an anti-communist because they UNDERSTAND Marx and Lenin. Well? I've read Das Kapital...I get it. Want no part of it.

quote Of course, there is no welfare system to pay your bills if you do... but at least you wont starve

Once again, you are wrong. I WOULD starve. If I stopped working I am choosing death over slavery. There is another group of people who chose death over slavery. Can you think of who they are?

Now which one of us is more Christen?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: And Public Hospitals do NOT have to accept emergency cases unless the[patient is in eminent danger of dying. They can refuse ANYONE at ANYTIME. I live in The United States of America.

I just asked the Cardiologist sitting right next to me in the HOSPITAL I work at. He says that an emergency case by definition has some element of danger of mortality and they have to accept the patient. Most public hospitals are not for profit. The hospitals that are for profit can refuse someone, but they run the risk of having law suits piled on them.

Yup. Public hospitals may not refuse treatment of people requiring critical care. That includes cancer and heart disease. Very expensive things to treat.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: I just asked the Cardiologist sitting right next to me in the HOSPITAL I work at. He says that an emergency case by definition has some element of danger of mortality and they have to accept the patient. Most public hospitals are not for profit. The hospitals that are for profit can refuse someone, but they run the risk of having law suits piled on them.