driving in to work this morning I passed two sherrifs cars on the side of the road. As soon as we passed them, the guy in the car behind me started flashing his headlights at every car coming our way.

Went it suddenly occurred to me - how many times have people fleeing the scene of a crime been stopped by police for routine traffic violations - and caught for something bigger.

T. McVeigh comes to mind - he was stopped for a problem with his license plate. And those guys in florida who had joked about 9-11 in a resturant in georgia, were stopped for running a toll booth.

So now Im wondering - how many times have americans flashed their headlights at a crimminal coming the other way, who might have been speeding, who might have been stopped by the police right then and there

and thereby helped them avoid arrest?

Maybe its time for us to decide once and for all, whos side are we on - the police, or everyone else?

That just shows that criminals are dumb. If I had just committed a crime I would not want to draw attention to myself by speeding or not paying tolls. That's just asking to be stopped.

Of course they are dumb - you gotta be pretty stupid to commit blantent crimes, esp when its so easy to steal money if you think about it for a few hours or more.

but I think what is even dumber, we never even consider that the car we are flashing our headlights at, might be the guy who just shot some kid in a schoolyard!

Assuming that everyone is a criminal or a terrorist is bordering on severe paranoia... This is what terrorism is all about; promoting mass-hysteria, and the rampant witch-hunting that is threatening to come boiling to the surface of your increasingly destabilized society. Outwardly, everyone is giving the appearance of pulling together to fight this terror...

assuming everyone IS a terroist is one thing

helping a complete stranger avoid the police is something else - its STUPIDITY! :c)

As if YOUR society was so stable........
Or your mental state for that matter..

Nobody said they assumed everyone else was a terrorist. Where do you come up with that idea? It was simply a question, how many times have we warned more hard core criminals about things like a traffic cop with headlight flashing, etc.

Anyone who's paid attention to the number of drug busts that are made on the I70 corridor by small town local yokels knows it's a whole damn bunch of them. The cash seized alone last quarter bought our local sheriff's office two new patrol cars and a new radio system. And the locals don't even get to keep it all. The amount of drugs siezed is staggering, and we live right smack in the middle of nowhere.

Where we do live though is in the heart of meth-lab country. Seems to be all the people that grew a few cultivated pot plants have graduated to meth labs. But no, smoking weed could NEVER lead to more serious abuse. Never ever. No way.

John Stricker

PS, once again, another Canadian kind enough to take us by the hand and show us poor unwashed Americans the error of our ways. Thank you SO much.......

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Assuming that everyone is a criminal or a terrorist is bordering on severe paranoia... This is what terrorism is all about; promoting mass-hysteria, and the rampant witch-hunting that is threatening to come boiling to the surface of your increasingly destabilized society. Outwardly, everyone is giving the appearance of pulling together to fight this terror...

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: Maybe its time for us to decide once and for all, whos side are we on - the police, or everyone else?

I used to be all for the Police, and all that good stuff. But for the past year or two, they have been nothing but a PITA for me. I will continue to flash my lights to warn of officers ahead, and other such measures that I deem necessary.

BTW: last week a friend was pulled over late at night, and called a "ni**er loving bit*h" by the local law enforcement ecause she had a "rage against the machine" sticker on her car(mumia abul Jamal case). Nothing else. For those not in the know on RATM, they were quite political, best band ever.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: As if YOUR society was so stable........ Or your mental state for that matter.. Nobody said they assumed everyone else was a terrorist. Where do you come up with that idea? It was simply a question, how many times have we warned more hard core criminals about things like a traffic cop with headlight flashing, etc. Anyone who's paid attention to the number of drug busts that are made on the I70 corridor by small town local yokels knows it's a whole damn bunch of them. The cash seized alone last quarter bought our local sheriff's office two new patrol cars and a new radio system. And the locals don't even get to keep it all. The amount of drugs siezed is staggering, and we live right smack in the middle of nowhere. Where we do live though is in the heart of meth-lab country. Seems to be all the people that grew a few cultivated pot plants have graduated to meth labs. But no, smoking weed could NEVER lead to more serious abuse. Never ever. No way. John Stricker PS, once again, another Canadian kind enough to take us by the hand and show us poor unwashed Americans the error of our ways. Thank you SO much.......

Oh, but it is. There are two different modes of multiculturalism; Integration (melting pot) and cohabitation (true multiculturalism).

Currently, Canada follows the latter, and the US the former. Once you become a US citizen, you are encouraged to drop your own culture, and become a true american, expected to comply 100% with american values, speak american languages etc.

In Canada, no such thing exists. Multiculturalism is encouraged.

FUNCTIONALLY, there isn't that much of a difference; Citizenship examinations are done in major languages (although there are MANY ways around it...), and people of a similar culture tend to group together (china town, etc) in urban centers.

The MAIN difference is cultural identity. Canadian Citizens tend to view themselves as Canadians, and at the same time, preserve their own culture.

This doesn't quite happen in the US. There is a general feeling of alienation, isolation, and mixed cultural identity feelings.

This causes HUGE social stress within the society. Take a look at american demographics. Check out the nationalities of the "lower classes." Irregardless of underlying cause, There is BLAME assigned. And it's wrecking your society. Your population is steadily polarizing; "Real Americans" on the top, and the "Culture-less ones" on the bottom. And you know what? There are FAR more of them than there are of you. You know what will happen when the lower class decides that they are sick of life, the universe, everything?

And it's starting to happen. Crime rates in large cities, MASSIVE poverty problems in the US...

The US may be the best place in the world to live, but it's starting to only apply to rich, white-caucasians.

And this whole terrorism thing is adding generalized panic to the mix.

You know, better social programs, and a REAL effort to stamp out poverty is ALL it would take to re-coalesce the american population. Take the poverty stress out, and most of your problems are solved.

But as it is, there are some Poli-Sci profs at my university that are giving the US a maximum of about 20 years before something catastrophic happens within your own borders...

And NOBODY wants that to happen. The US falling would de-stabilize the entire planet

Never thought I'd say it, but the World actually NEEDS you!

Canada has it's own problems. We have a JOKE of a military, our provincial governments (not federal, we're doing OK there) are bolluxing finances, and we're being overtaxed due to funds mismanagement....

Ahhh! this explains the Canadian goverment policies

they KNOW something aweful is going to happen in the next 20 years

and the last thing they want is a bunch of disgruntled american undesirables looking across the border and thinking, "you know, Canada is a great place to live"

Your govenment is screwing up your country for your own good!

:c)

The only reason I reentered the forum is because of my current life situation and the effect the reading of this thread had on me. It’s purely a timing thing, because if I hadn’t had my home burglarized by permission of the state, this thread wouldn’t have mattered to me.

I have made many friends in here, as well as some people that might consider themselves to be enemies. I don’t consider anyone in here an enemy. So for any who despise me or consider me an enemy, here’s your chance to gloat and enjoy yourself at my expense. About a year and a half ago I lost my job at Boeing. I was making $40,000 a year, going to school ¾ time, and being a very productive citizen. I then lost my job and that all changed. Eventually, my house foreclosed and went to auction. On the auction day, September 19, 2002, I went to the auction to see what it went for and to talk to the buyer about me moving out soon and to give me 4 or 5 days. I wanted to be amicable and leave his or her property in good condition; I even spoke with a gentleman at the auction about this. So at auction time, my house had been delayed. I figured it would be a week or more before auction and that the buyers would give me time, as required by law, to allow me to move before any action would transpire. So I started moving out. I had a 1500 sq ft house full of stuff, some junk, some valuable, and some very sentimentally precious to me. I’m sure we all have stuff like that, and at 40, I had acquired a bunch of it. I rented a huge 24 ft moving van on 9-26 and 9-27 (Thursday and Friday) to get some large stuff, but no papers and sentimental stuff. Then I loaded a car up over the weekend, and again on Wednesday, October 2. I was planning on renting a UHAUL trailer to hook up to my pickup and get the rest on Sunday, October 8, 2002. On Thursday, October 3, the new buyers came over, talked to my neighbor about when he’d seen me last and if I was still there. He replied by saying that he’d seen me coming and going taking stuff out. The buyer then called for a police standby at that moment and declared the property abandoned, called a locksmith and had the locks changed. He posted signs about no trespassing, along side a sign that read, “5 days to vacate” that was posted simultaneously. Per state law, unless the buyer can get the property declared abandoned or a hazard, he must have a forcible detainer served and go through the slow (usually 40 days) process, except for a case like mine where I was voluntarily vacating. The buyer apparently thought I was one of those people who would wait it out, or he looked in and saw lots of good stuff and thought it would be nice to have it. So the buyer waits a day and a half (Saturday, October 5, 2002 @ 6am) after just having the locks changed on Thursday night, and hires 5 workers to ravage and throw away everything I have into a huge dumpster outside. Chemicals were arbitrarily thrown on anything and everything. The cat box was strewed about my personal effects with feces going everywhere. Photos and newspaper articles that were up to 30 years old were tossed about in the mess of this dumpster. My Community College Diploma and ASU Diploma tossed in there with glass broken. My life was then trashed and still is. So, my Saturday went like this: I woke up at 7am, took my LSAT until 1pm, went to play basketball until 6:30pm, called my girlfriend to arrange a meeting time for dinner at 8, and I was going to go the house for another carload of stuff and to check on the house. As I pull up, I see this huge dumpster in the driveway, and I sink into my chair. I investigate and figure out what happed, but was still unaware of what was taken. So I call my girlfriend to cancel dinner and she comes out to help me. The dumpster was overflowing with my stuff, so I started pulling it out of there. Anyway, it was 7:30pm Saturday then, I worked throughout the night and at 11:00 am the next day, the owner and his cop buddy that live up the street come walking up in plain cloths. The buyer, oddly enough named Ken, accuses me of trespassing. A lot of dialogue transpires that I won’t get into, but I tell the cop to arrest me if he needs to. Of course he did not, as he knows the property was illegally/unreasonably declared abandoned. I finish cleaning the property and have left. Now they have my military records and graduating albums that they supposedly can’t find. My neighbor said he saw them taking that stuff out and even commented about it. I believe they will probably hold it ransom for me to just go away. I have only rough figured at this point, but I figure I’ve lost at least 8 thousand dollars worth of stuff, a lot of it in tools for my work. A lot of Fiero parts got ruined in the process of trashing it out there. My neighbor said the workers had piles of my stuff that each one received.

This goes way beyond burglary, because in simple burglary, the thieves take stuff that is of value and is usually small. If they ransack, it’s in the effort to seek valuables, not to throw away or break all of a persons personal records and pictures. There’s no personal malice present; it’s a very impersonal and sometimes arbitrary method of illicitly collecting money. If a burglar robs your house it’s a sole a separate incident. But when a cop sits there and facilitates what is apparently one of his friends to break into your house and steal your goods, it’s basically state sanctioned burglary. It’s the worst form of intrusion I’ve experienced and I’m really on the brink right now. So the moral of the story and in response to what Ken Wittlief wrote about who side we’re on,

“Maybe its time for us to decide once and for all, whos side are we on - the police, or everyone else?”

I would like a little clarification. Mach 10 really wrote it best when he wrote,

“Assuming that everyone is a criminal or a terrorist is bordering on severe paranoia... This is what terrorism is all about; promoting mass-hysteria, and the rampant witch-hunting that is threatening to come boiling to the surface of your increasingly destabilized society. Outwardly, everyone is giving the appearance of pulling together to fight this terror...”

A lot of assumptions were made there by Ken, two of which being that the police are all the same and that they are all honest. I don’t see clearly defined sides here, as many criminals wear badges. In fact, I see a continuum of the quality of people, and the wearing of a badge is merely incidental. I’m not bashing cops, just saying that to say the blue-line is distinct and true is gross oversimplification. Also, to say that all cops are bad or to say that this is an example of one bad apple out of the whole bunch is misleading; all cops aren’t bad and there are plenty of dirty cops to go around. Please do not take this as me ripping at you Ken, but if you were sitting in my chair unsure how you’re going to fight the machine that protects cops, even dirty ones, then you would feel the pain I do now. I’m really on the edge right now. There’s a lot more that goes into this matter, but I think I have dragged on long enough, so thanks for the ear.

Ken man.. You're losing it! Yes, I flash my lights to everyone going by me when I see a cop. And people do it to me. Do you know what the chances are that you flashed your lights at a killer on the run.. Oh, i'd say .00001%... I don't know if it's 9/11 thats making you paranoid or what.

If and WHEN they stop acting like PIGS, I may stop flashing, but I donot think that will ever happen.

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Question wonder and be wierd

quote Originally posted by Mach10: The MAIN difference is cultural identity. Canadian Citizens tend to view themselves as Canadians, and at the same time, preserve their own culture.

Sounds like you're not French Canadian then.

multiculturalism????
I HATE IT
come to miami if you want to see multiculturalism run wild

Back when brits ruled India, a group of Brits came across a local funeral just as the widdow was to be thrown on the pyre, the locals explained that was their custom,
the brits said " We hang chaps who do that, by our customs.."
everyone is NOT right thats why multiculturalism can't work

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Question wonder and be wierd

No JohnnyK - in your case, you flash your lights at every criminal that passes you - thats a 100% probability - if someone is trying to hide from the police, and you pass them, then you will warn them - 100% of the time.

What happened to Ed sounds like a case of someone not knowing his job very well. Not everyone is familiar with the details of forclosure - usually when you purchase a house it belongs to you on the day you hand the money over

It takes a certain kind of person to purchase a home that has been forclosed - vulture mentality - the person knew he was getting a bargan at your expense - and most likely made a lot of assumptions about you

if the cop involved was genuinely dishonest, he wouldnt go through all the trouble of having friends by homes at forclousure sales - he would simply get a couple buddies, a truck, and pick a home at random, go in with guns drawn, tie up the owners, and take whatever they want.

Since the proceedure of forclosure was violated in your case, I would get a lawyer and sue the new owner. The owner exceeded his rights and failed to meet his obligations - he is the one that is responsible for you loss.

Im willing to bet that being called to the site of a forclosure or an eviction is the last thing a cop wants to hear on his radio.

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Assuming that everyone is a criminal or a terrorist is bordering on severe paranoia...

Well assuming that the unturned card the dealer has in Blackjack is always going to be a 10 is just plain stupid too cause if its not and you bet a lot of money, you're pretty much screwed either way. (even though statistics show that it usually is)

Poor Ken is just doing too much thinking again... (its okay Ken, I understand )

i say you set fire to your old house.

Teach that guy

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Formula 5 spd
Dual Tb intake, nitrous, off road pipe
Gay Turner for Spinchat Prez!!!
BAN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I say you relocate a homeless family of skunks to your old house. Make sure they get excited while they are inside, that way the new owner can enjoy his new house scent. It aught to match his very closely.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you are saying. I'm helping criminals 100% of the time? People who do not want to get caught by speed traps are people on the run?? Clarify this.

spell it out for you in plan english?!

ok

some guy sits outside your local gradeschool with a 223 rifle and scope, and blows some kids brains all over the sidewalk at 7:56 as he is walking into school for the day.

The guy speeds off, to get away from the crime scene.

Meanwhile our hero, ObliviousJohnny, is driving the other way and passes a police car on the side of the road.

Since preventing people from getting speeding tickets is THE most important thing in the world, he starts flashing his headlights at every car he sees for the next 5 miles.

Including the one with the sniper - who gratefully smiles, and passes by the cop going 2 kph under the limit.

He was speeding, He would have been stopped, the cop might have smelled the pungent scent of gunpoweder in his car, and arrested him.

But thanks to you, he is long gone.

If you flash your headlights at cars coming the other way ALL THE TIME - then every criminal or fleeing felon you pass, you will flash.

They can ALWAYS depend on YOU to help them avoid the cops.

[This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 10-08-2002).]

Sorry to hear about your trouble Ed-That's just rotten as hell.
Mach10:
"The US may be the best place in the world to live, but it's starting to only apply to rich, white-caucasians."
I imagine you are saying this based on living or visiting an area that is not truly multi-cultural. San Angelo is at least 50/40/10-white,/hispanic/black, maybe reverse the first 2 #'s. Most of Texas, except for Dallas & Houston are the same. Your statement, at least here, is flatly un-true. The living standards are pretty much equal, as are the jobs & job opportunities. Of the 7 supervisors at work, 5 are Hispanic.
Of the 5 people in management, 3 are Hispanic. Our population is about 75,000 btw.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-08-2002).]

“What happened to Ed sounds like a case of someone not knowing his job very well. Not everyone is familiar with the details of forclosure - usually when you purchase a house it belongs to you on the day you hand the money over”
I guess you’re referring to the cop, not the broker with the job knowledge reference. I spoke to the cop today and he is now backing off, saying he was just there to search the curtilage for stolen items. He claims he found none and went on his way. He also said he has never met the broker, but I don’t believe him. He stands on the side of the broker, but from a distance. I checked all court records, city, JP, and Superior Court, and found that no judge has given permission for the broker to enter my residence. There is supposedly a 5-day law that requires the foreclosure buyer to wait five days before entry, absent emergency or abandonment. I’m seeing an attorney on Thursday to clarify this law. So it sounds like the cops, who I believe are the broker’s friend are backing away and leaving the sole discretionary decision to enter on the shoulders of the broker. But this cop in particular an ignoramous, as in our discussion he said that this matter is either civil or criminal; it can’t be both. I suggested the O.J. case and he said that was a farce. Farce or not, many, if not most criminal cases also have a civil case that precedes or follows it. This guy proves my theory that cops are primarily here to protect the interests of the rich. Kind of moot point I know.
“It takes a certain kind of person to purchase a home that has been forclosed - vulture mentality - the person knew he was getting a bargan at your expense - and most likely made a lot of assumptions about you”
You are exactly right. I don’t have a problem with the bargain aspect of it; I just want my stuff back. In fact, I was playing nice by leaving voluntarily with out the need for a forcible detainer. Again, you’re right, he assumed I was some dirt-bag that didn’t know crap and was the scourge of the earth for allowing my home to foreclose. I think he’s realized that he’s assumed wrong by now, as the word has gotten back to him that I’m making this issue a full-time job. I’m going to attack him from all sides, civilly, criminally, license (real estate) and hopefully the media.
“ if the cop involved was genuinely dishonest, he wouldnt go through all the trouble of having friends by homes at forclousure sales - he would simply get a couple buddies, a truck, and pick a home at random, go in with guns drawn, tie up the owners, and take whatever they want.”
I call that blatant malice, not genuine dishonesty. He walked up on Sunday when they threatened to arrest me for trespassing, as if he was the broker’s bodyguard. Their communication appeared to be buddy-like, as opposed to a professional cop to citizen relationship. I would liken this scenario to a cop on the take, not a blatant holdup.
“Since the proceedure of forclosure was violated in your case, I would get a lawyer and sue the new owner. The owner exceeded his rights and failed to meet his obligations - he is the one that is responsible for you loss.”
Absolutely. The requirement, as I know it, and I was a licensed process server for 6 years, is to go to the magistrate and get a forcible detainer, have it served, and the court date will be from 2-6 days upon execution. Then the judge decides what happens and how long, but usually 30 days. He (broker) circumvented it by claiming the property was abandoned.
“Im willing to bet that being called to the site of a forclosure or an eviction is the last thing a cop wants to hear on his radio.”
Now that I know more, there was no police radio call. The broker, who per the cop has never met the cop before, went up and coincidentally saw the cop driving home and inquired with him as what to do. That is such BS, the broker obviously knew the cop personally and was getting a favor from a friend. I went to the police station to get a copy of all radio correspondence and police reports; I have them on order. I interviewed the cop today, after the fact and he said there was no radio call. This was a personal favor, and now the cop backs off as the heat rises.

god Ken.. you HAVE gone paranoid.. You sure you don't have schizophrenia or something? As I said, the chances of this imaginary sniper passing you is .00001%... and yes, I'm willing to take that risk to help others out of a $200 speeding ticket. I know I appreciate it when others do it for me. (Whats your next remark. I'm going to grow up to BE that sniper, and be glad people flash their lights for me?)

Sorry Ken, I don't agree with the logic. You might as well say you're not ever going to help any stranger because you might be helping a terrorist/violent criminal.

Ed makes a good point too... Criminals are on both sides of the badge. I'd bet your chances of helping a crooked cop by not flashing your lights are greater than your chances of helping a terrorist by flashing them.

There is always a 'chance' that a routine stop may net a terrorist or major criminal, but I don't think it is a very good chance. Even if one is stopped, it's no guarantee that they will know the guy is a terrorist. Most of them, as I understand it, made sure they led perfectly lawful lives right up to the time they got on the planes. Then remember the patrol officer who had stopped the bank robber a few weeks ago(he later comitted suicide)-he stopped the guy, but made a typo on some paperwork & the crime went forward anyway. The chance of it happening as you posted originally is just too slim to worry about IMO. I think more can be accomplished if everyone just pays more attention to their surroundings, wherever they are. To be honest, I don't do the flashing lights thing, probably because I rarely speed myself, but I do appreciate it when someone flashes their lights at me-kinda hypocritical I guess.

quote Originally posted by fiero56: BTW: last week a friend was pulled over late at night, and called a "ni**er loving bit*h" by the local law enforcement ecause she had a "rage against the machine" sticker on her car(mumia abul Jamal case).

I'm not at all surprised that cops get annoyed with people who have stickers supporting Mumia abu Jamal on their cars. That guy is a cop-killer.

Those cops definitely shouldn't be hurling invective like that around, but if I was a cop, and I stopped someone for a moving violation, and that person had a sticker like that--"No warning for you!"

Here's an idea: before putting a sticker on your car, think about who it might annoy, especially if they might carry guns.

* * *

Ken, you raise an excellent point.

Ed

when did I say you should not help strangers?

I said you should not help strangers AVOID THE POLICE.

Logic and reasoning should be a required course in public schools.

quote Originally posted by DRH: Sorry Ken, I don't agree with the logic. You might as well say you're not ever going to help any stranger because you might be helping a terrorist/violent criminal. Ed makes a good point too... Criminals are on both sides of the badge. I'd bet your chances of helping a crooked cop by not flashing your lights are greater than your chances of helping a terrorist by flashing them.

Wow, good points with concision! The latter part is the one I need to learn .

"Criminals are on both sides of the badge. I'd bet your chances of helping a crooked cop by not flashing your lights are greater than your chances of helping a terrorist by flashing them."

That's LSAT type reasoning, flipping the logic and examining the merit in the reverse. It's a kind of test you do to test the validity of the logical reasoning used in a passage or statement. The simple deduction is that there are fewer terrorists in the US than there are bad cops in the US. I think that's hard to argue against. But to be fair, I guess we all have the choice of deciding which we fear more. I fear cops more than I fear any other criminal element. By that I'm not inferring that every or most cops are crooked, just that I can handle the occasional crook on the street with confidence, but cops have guns and judges in their pockets, so a little from them goes a lot further than a street-full of usually unorganized criminals.

terrorist OR CRIMINALS

geesh - this is more trouble than its worth.

the guy coming the other way could be wanted for any numeber of reasons

it could be the kid who killed your best friend while driving DWI, and then skipped bail

someone who just shot his wife

robbed a bank

kidnapped a 5 year old kid

you dont really think there are more bad cops in american than there are criminals - do you?

flashing your lights to warn other drivers, in essesence, is saying " I dont know who you are, I dont anything about you

but there is one of those cops up ahead"

as if a cop is something we must all avoid at all costs - no matter who you are

LOOK OUT! COPS AHEAD! THERE GONNA GET YOU! ITS US vs THEM! NO MATTER WHAT

I told you. The chance that someone IS wanted to for something else, is so slim that I'm gladly willing to take that chance to save them the hassle of a ticket.

quote Originally posted by edhering: I'm not at all surprised that cops get annoyed with people who have stickers supporting Mumia abu Jamal on their cars. That guy is a cop-killer. Those cops definitely shouldn't be hurling invective like that around, but if I was a cop, and I stopped someone for a moving violation, and that person had a sticker like that--"No warning for you!" Here's an idea: before putting a sticker on your car, think about who it might annoy, especially if they might carry guns. Ed

It is an unfortunate reality, seeing how cops should be totally neutral. But to stay as close to the good side of a cop, we need to be as neutral to them as possible, even if that means what stickers you display on your car.

About the Mumia Abul-Jamal case. He is convicted, and reading some literature put out by him and the case, surrounding him, it is likely he did. The controversey surrounding his case, stems from the overwhelming lack of actual evidence, yet receiving the death penalty punishment(guilty until proven innocent). Keeping this as short as possible, it is believed, witnesses were "created" and and actual witnesses(prostitutes on the street) were fed what to say in court to avoid punishment for their "career" choice.

It is good, there was a band like RATM making political ideas and information available to fans. RATM would even hold concerts, and donate ALL proceedes to political groups they supported(the zapatista in Mexico for one).

Mumia Abu-Jamal is an award-winning 28 year old journalist who has been on death row since July 3, 1982 for the alleged 1981 murder of Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner -- who had been beating his brother, William Cook, at the time,

I would not tolerate a cop beating one of my family members either. Since we have a member from here from the West coast with already radical ideals, I am not going to post what I had had originally written.

[This message has been edited by fiero56 (edited 10-09-2002).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I imagine you are saying this based on living or visiting an area that is not truly multi-cultural. San Angelo is at least 50/40/10-white,/hispanic/black, maybe reverse the first 2 #'s. Most of Texas, except for Dallas & Houston are the same. Your statement, at least here, is flatly un-true. The living standards are pretty much equal, as are the jobs & job opportunities. Of the 7 supervisors at work, 5 are Hispanic. Of the 5 people in management, 3 are Hispanic. Our population is about 75,000 btw. [This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-08-2002).]

Sorry, it's a quote that I heard that I had wanted to use. It's not particularly true, having nothing more than an anecdotal basis

What you describe is a fairly healthy social climate. But it doesn't necessarily reflect the rest of your country. I'll have to get at the articles again, but I think Texas is one of the really stable states. Texans seem to get along with each other fairly well, as long as no-one tries to take their guns away!

Back on topic:

Ken: PARANOID. You can apply this same reasoning to ANY situation.
By NOT shooting the guy across the street, you may allow him to do something terrible later.
By SELLING a person food, you are potentially giving him the food energy he needs to rob a bank.
By BUYING something, you may be handing over money to someone that's going to buy a gun and shoot someone.

It's a ludicrous thought-process, normally reserved for people who see leprochauns that tell them to burn things.

You are right, people want to assume that the next guy is as honest (or more so) than themselves.

But if people were to act the way you are proposing, you create a country full of isolationist/expansionists. People who pre-emptively attack everyone, and expand, kill, or cut-off anything outside their borders to eliminate any possible outside threat...

quote Die Fahne hoch Die Reihen fest geschlossen S.A. marschiert Mit ruhig festem Schritt |: Kam'raden die Rotfront Und Reaktion erschossen Marschier'n im Geist In unsern Reihen mit

Sound familiar?

Mach10 - logic and reasoning skills like yours leads me to believe that democracy is a bad idea!

how do you go from NOT helping complete strangers hide/ run/ or otherwise avoid the police

to not buying cookies from Girl Scouts.

Next time you see a police car in a high speed pursuit, are you going to get in his way? Help the perp escape? hide his car in your garage? why not? all the cop wants to do is give the other guy a speeding ticket - right?