And people wonder why the players are willing to go on strike. They know that no matter what they do or say, the sheep err people will keep coming back for more. What the hell is wrong with these people anyway? Don't they care at all that the players could give two sh!ts about them (i.e. those who keep the game alive)? Are they that oblivious to whats going on? How sad that its come to this....
www.mlbfanstrike.com

I don't think they realize how hard it was to get people to come back the last time. They go on strike I think it will be even harder. I won't go!!! bunch of millionairs fighting w/billionairs just go away!!!

hotdog $5.00
beer $7.00
ticket $35.00
baseball player yearly salary 5 million
cost for new stadium 15 billion
death to a American pastime "priceless"

[This message has been edited by atarian (edited 08-26-2002).]

I used to be a huge MLB fan until the last strike. Now you couldn't pay me to watch a game. I've seen a few minor league/farm team games, though. They aren't bad. Much better to watch someone who's really trying to play rather than a bunch of cry babies.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.........i cant live on 3 million a year.they can hire me for $100,000 a year.i might suck,but im cheap.and for 120k i'll play with a broken arm.
those big @#$%en wieners

What they fail to understand is that fewer and fewer people give a **** about baseball every year. Look at most of the stands...their empty. Baseball might be americas sport but football is america's pasion! Everyone loves football now becuase every year every team has a chance. Money is no longer a factor on having a great team...good personele choices are.

If you want proof look at last years world series. 2 great teams playing in some really incredible games. One of the games was played on a monday night pitting it against monday night footballl. The cowboys and skins. At the time the cowboys hadn't won a game yet and the skins had only won one. So you have two of the worst teams in the nfl going at it(I'm a cowboys fan so that's hard for me to say) against the two best teams in baseball in the fall classic. Guess what not only did monday night football win the ratings but it doubled the world series ratings. If that isn't proof postive of baseballs demise I don't know what is. They'll have a small group of fans that live and breathe baseball that will be pissed but truthfully I think a great majority of fans will just turn their attention to football. Hell preseason football has been geting ratings then baseball. It's sad but the owners only have themselves to blame.

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In memory of my....

To put it in perspective...
I heard that Smoltz gets $100,000 for each start! That's waaaay more for one freakin' game than I make in an entire year!
Hell, it can cost hundreds of dollars (for tickets and food) for a family to go see a ballgame. Something's just wrong with that.

Farg 'em. All of 'em. My heart just bleeds.

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Raydar

ReFormulated

I haven't had anything to do wiht MLB since the last strike. NHL either for that matter.

None of the pro sports give a crap about the fans. I'll stay with AA and AAA ball if I want to see a game, and the Phantoms are a hell of allot more fun to watch than the Flyers.

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

yea i still go to the ballparks for a game once in-a-while but i always bring my girlfriend. i kiss her on the strikes and she kisses me on the balls.

its america passtime.

[This message has been edited by Sleeper (edited 08-25-2002).]

Average baseball salary is 2.3 mil a year!

Recently Sammy Sosa complained about waking up at 8 AM every morning, its "tough" he says. I feel for him, I really do.

ARod said he was willing to take a 30 to 40 percent pay cut if it would help baseball (he is the highest paid "athlete" of all time btw). Then all the sudden he back tracked saying he would be "willing to do his part" but he wasn't serious about 30 to 40 percent.

As someone pointed out, its true NFL is taking over. Its much more exciting to watch. Another thing about NFL I like is that you don't have ancient relics still lingering around the game (for the most part anyway). In baseball you have players who just hit, they don't even play the field. How lame is that. Some 45 year old has been is still DH-ing for a scrub American league team so he can get more hits/HRs for the record books. Pathetic.

The press has said a lot about how fans won't come back. Some fans have said as much. However, major league attendance is at an all time high. True, there are certain teams that are struggling at the gate, but overall they are drawing more fans to games than they ever did. Its also more difficult to make the gate look good compared to football on a game by game basis. Each team has 8 home dates compared to 81. There is no way you can sell out a 40,000 seat baseball stadium every game of the year. However, its not so hard to sell out a 70,000 seat football stadium 8 times. The overall attendance difference would be 3.24 million seats a season for the baseball team, .56 million for the football team.

Football has also gone thru what baseball is. They turned off a lot of fans in the 80's with strikes, and replacement games. Those games didn't draw flies, but they broke the union. That allowed the owners to get a revenue sharing system in place to allow all markets to compete. Thats what baseball is trying to do now, and the players are trying to stop it.

As far as watching the minors vs majors... I used to own season tickets to the Buffalo Bisons (AAA). I don't anymore simply because I cannot make it to a large portion of the 72 game schedule, and they don't sell out so I can walk up and buy a ticket when I do go. They are fun games to go to up to a point, but I finds going to major league games is still more fun. Maybe there are some major leaguers who "take the night off", but the games mean something too. What happens in the minors... and is happening this year to the Bisons (again) is you play a whole season, are in the pennant race and getting excited for the playoffs. Then Sept. 1 hitsa, the major league club calls up your best players and you end up finishing the season with AA players. They are out there to develop and play hard, and its nice if they win, but nobody is all that concerned about winning a championship. It takes the fun out of a good season. Plus its a lot more fun to watch Sammy Sosa come to the plate (I go to about 10 Cubs games a year, sorry for my bias towards him!) than Tim Laker... the bisons 30 year old never was utility player.

If they go on strike, I will be upset. However, the real crime will be if the owners cave and let the games problems remain. Either way, its just more fun to root for a level of baseball where people care if you win a championship. I'll come back.

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: [B]The press has said a lot about how fans won't come back. Some fans have said as much. However, major league attendance is at an all time high. True, there are certain teams that are struggling at the gate, but overall they are drawing more fans to games than they ever did.[B]

Not quite. I read an article on ESPN.com saying that attendance hasn't recovered fully from the '94 strike.

I had 2 FREE tickets to the Brewer's game Saturday, and wouldn't go (not just because they stink. I've never been a Brewers fan).

All a bunch of greedy jerks.

Shame on the citizens of the U.S. (and Canada a little) to spend that high of a percentage of their income on forms of entertainment such as this.

Strike in '94 was the final nail in the coffin of me supporting baseball in any way.

I wouldn't feel to bad for the owners either. Thier the a$$holes that cry about salaries and then turn around and hand a 100 million dollar contract to someone. I'd just like to hear one f'ing player who realizes how lucky he is to make million's of dollars just because he can play a game. I don't begrudge them a single dollar if the owners offer it to him ...just act like your lucky and blessed and not like your deserving and better then everyone else.

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In memory of my....

Sorry, double post.

[This message has been edited by Fformula88 (edited 08-26-2002).]

Quote: "I get upset with some of this garbage, but its not going to ruin my enjoyment of the GAME itself."
Your last statement said it all... It's a GAME... I work hard for my $45K per year! EVERY day of the week, EVERY week of the year! I drive an hour and a half to get to work and an hour and a half to get back home, EVERY DAY! When I see somebody going out on strike because they think 250 million dollars isn't enough to play a damn game for 9 months out of the year they can take that game and everybody who "plays" it and flush 'em down the pooper! 250 mil a year??? God, I'll never see that in my lifetime and I work 10 times harder then any of those jerks do. I love baseball but I could never rationlize away what they did in '94. I quit watching MLB in '94 and will never be back. My whole opinion of baseball players was shattered that summer...
I watched two games of BASEBALL this weekend, the Little League World Series... That is what baseball is all about, or should be. Playing for the love of the game. It's too bad these kids will grow up and expect big bucks to play their "game". It's sad really, the desacration of an American Icon.

[This message has been edited by astroracer (edited 08-26-2002).]

Before the first baseball strike (the BIG one about 7 or 8 years ago) I used to LOVE baseball. I enjoyed going to the Tigers (even though they weren't any good even back THEN! lol) games with my dad, and it was great.
After that strike though, it just really ruined things for me. I don't know if it was just the plain greediness of the players that got to me, or what. Now I just flip through baseball like an infomercial. I just don't care about it.
Count me in as a striking fan...indefinitely.
~sophia

quote Originally posted by Sleeper: and she kisses me on the balls.

no kidding, in front of everyone

Face it people, this is the root of it all.

Jealousy.

You have to drive 90 minutes to work? Gee, I don't. I work where I live. Sorry that's so unfair to you.

You only make $45K a year? Wow. How depressing. I've lost more than that in a year and made three times that a year. Just depends on the year. But then again, I'm self-employed and am willing to take that chance. You, OTOH, are happy to draw a steady paycheck. That's cool and worth a lot too. But it's so unfair that you make so much less than ballplayers. Or your boss. Or me. Too damn bad.

It's a GAME?? Get real my friend. It's a business. And big business at that. For the players, the owners, and the people in the communities that have teams. Just like making movies, music, or being a birthday clown is a business. Too bad you don't think it's serious enough to warrant respect as a business, but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

You work harder than a professional athelete? I think not. Not debating whether the work they do is WORTH millions, just that after a statement like that, I suggest you have no idea the amount of work and time it takes to be in condition to be a professional athelete. Not to mention the rehab after injuries and surgeries, the short career span, etc., etc. What that's worth is up to the free market to decide, but just the amount of work I doubt there's any comparison. Oh, and BTW, if you think they only "work" 9 months a year, guess again. Baseball, in particular, is at least an 11 month a year gig and, for the guys that are really good, it never ends.

Like it or not, to succeed in the business of baseball, money has to be spent. The NFL took on that challenge with salary caps and, while far from perfect, it has held the line on team salaries AND resulted in a great deal of parity between most teams. Baseball chose not to do that and they're reaping the results of a bad BUSINESS decision now. I'm not sure they can ever get a cap on team salaries like football has now because of the players union. Probably not. And it will be the result of bad business decisions and nothing more.

The players are PROFESSIONAL players. While you may think they owe the fans something, they don't. They make their salaries when they show up on game day and play the game to the best of their ability. Although they MIGHT decide to start and/or donate to foundations and charities, they are no more obligated to than the Rockefellers, Kennedy's, or any other individual. And that includes you and me. It's their money and they can do with it what they will.

I wonder how you'd feel about this subject if you had a 98 mph fastball and a kick-ass slider?

My dad used to play semi-pro ball and after the last strike he hasn't been to a ballgame since. He remembers riding buses 4 hours to a game and getting $20 for it, and having a good time doing it. He used to go to KC and watch the Royals a dozen times during the summer. NO more. That's his choice on how he wants to spend his money. I go to a game or two a year. I also go to 2 or three Chiefs games a year. I also go see KState play football 3 or 4 times a year. KU play basketball a couple of times a year. That's how *I* choose to spend my money. It's entertainment money for me, like a movie, but it's professional money to the players, just like to actors, actresses, and musicians.

Perhaps, if a strike comes and there's no world series again, Baseball will find that it CAN'T afford to pay those salaries if it results in enough fan resentment that they don't think it's a good way to spend their entertainment money. IF that happens, then they won't. They'll find people to play for less. And that will be a business decision too.

And all the jealousy, pissing and moaning from everybody won't change that one bit.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by astroracer: Quote: Your last statement said it all... It's a GAME... I work hard for my $45K per year! EVERY day of the week, EVERY week of the year! I drive an hour and a half to get to work and an hour and a half to get back home, EVERY DAY! When I see somebody going out on strike because they think 250 million dollars isn't enough to play a damn game for 9 months out of the year they can take that game and everybody who "plays" it and flush 'em down the pooper! 250 mil a year??? God, I'll never see that in my lifetime and I work 10 times harder then any of those jerks do. [This message has been edited by astroracer (edited 08-26-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: To put it in perspective... I heard that Smoltz gets $100,000 for each start! That's waaaay more for one freakin' game than I make in an entire year! Hell, it can cost hundreds of dollars (for tickets and food) for a family to go see a ballgame. Something's just wrong with that. Farg 'em. All of 'em. My heart just bleeds.

I guess good ole smoltzy aint making any money now since he hasn't started a game in nearly a year and a half.

And yes Football is travelling down the same path as baseball and basketball.. its ALL about the money.

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Ray · Email Me! · Fierosite.com · Fiero Chat! · Project White Phantom

Not in this life time . I'm done ! Thats it !

No more millionaire , playing a boys game !

Galen Smith
Red 85 Sport Coupe
Founder of Suncoast Fiero Club

quote Originally posted by astroracer: Quote: I watched two games of BASEBALL this weekend, the Little League World Series... That is what baseball is all about, or should be. Playing for the love of the game. It's too bad these kids will grow up and expect big bucks to play their "game". It's sad really, the desacration of an American Icon. [This message has been edited by astroracer (edited 08-26-2002).]

Ok, good point on the MLB players, it is a game and I too work hard for my money and won't see anywhere near what they make. I just find watching the game a lot of fun.

As for the LLWS, Thats a whole seperate thread I think! Just like MLB, the LLWS is becoming totally commercial. little kids playing to the camera. Every game on TV. Big business is involved, scandals are happening all over. Its supposed to be a kids game, where they go out and learn about hard work, sportsmanship, and above all have fun. They should not be on TV, promoted like it was professional sports. Its a shame what they are doing to it.

"Face it people, this is the root of it all.

Jealousy."

Speak for yourself.

"It's a GAME?? Get real my friend. It's a business, And big business at that. "

It was never a big business until free agency mixed with owner stupidity, and we see the outcome today.

"Too bad you don't think it's serious enough to warrant respect as a business, but that doesn't change the fact that it is."

Yes while it is a business, its a business based off a simple game.

"You work harder than a professional athelete? I think not."

BWUAUHAHAHA. HAHA. HAHA.

"Not debating whether the work they do is WORTH millions, just that after a statement like that, I suggest you have no idea the amount of work and time it takes to be in condition to be a professional athelete."

I know people in better shape then pro athletes and they work a 9-5 job, so whats your point? Yes pro athletes have the talent to back up their physical attributes but it really isn't insanely hard work to stay in good shape, or even great shape. Talent is what gets them paid. Look at recent ball players, Cecil Fielder, Harold Baines even Jose Canseco toward the end of his career. These players were not exactly in the best of shape yet they made how much money?

"Not to mention the rehab after injuries and surgeries, the short career span, etc., etc."

Poor things. What about the health problems people get in relation to their non-sports jobs. I guess they mean nothing since some pitcher has to have Tommy John surgery. Must be rough.

"What that's worth is up to the free market to decide, but just the amount of work I doubt there's any comparison. Oh, and BTW, if you think they only "work" 9 months a year, guess again. Baseball, in particular, is at least an 11 month a year gig and, for the guys that are really good, it never ends."

Hey welcome to the real world, most people work 12 months out of the year, and more then just a few hours a day of exercising and hitting a ball with a wooden bat.

"The players are PROFESSIONAL players. While you may think they owe the fans something, they don't."

Bullsh!t. The fans are the ones keeping their butts employed. Thats like saying Wal Mart employees don't owe their customers anything.

"They make their salaries when they show up on game day and play the game to the best of their ability. Although they MIGHT decide to start and/or donate to foundations and charities, they are no more obligated to than the Rockefellers, Kennedy's, or any other individual."

Who said anything about what they do with their money? I could care less.

"And that includes you and me. It's their money and they can do with it what they will."

OK step off the soap box now, please.

"I wonder how you'd feel about this subject if you had a 98 mph fastball and a kick-ass slider?"

I'd feel pretty good signing a multi-million dollar contract with a huge bonus just because I can throw a baseball.

"My dad used to play semi-pro ball and after the last strike he hasn't been to a ballgame since. He remembers riding buses 4 hours to a game and getting $20 for it, and having a good time doing it."

Did he play with newspapers wrapped around his feet in 22 inches of snow?

"Perhaps, if a strike comes and there's no world series again, Baseball will find that it CAN'T afford to pay those salaries if it results in enough fan resentment that they don't think it's a good way to spend their entertainment money. IF that happens, then they won't. They'll find people to play for less. And that will be a business decision too."

Ramble ramble ramble

"And all the jealousy, pissing and moaning from everybody won't change that one bit."

Thats where your wrong my friend. If we can get enough of these moronic "fans" who keep going to games to stop, it will change more then just a bit. It will change a whole whole lot.

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: OK step off the soap box now, please.

Professional baseball has been big business since its inception. My great Uncle played for the Boston Red Sox in the late 30's into the early 40's. He was the starting third baseman for the team for a few years. Wasn't a great player, and had knee problems end his career. Yet he was paid very well for the time. When most people were walking, eating next to nothing during the great depression, he drove a new Cadillac every year.Again, he was an average player, not a star. They have always been paid well. Heck, professional baseball was started to make money. Guys like Al Spaulding liked baseball, and helped organize a professional league, because they thought it was a way to make money and enjoy what they were doing.

Who here pays $5.00 to go to a movie? Or $4.00 to rent it? To watch multi-million dollar actors? Vin Diesal got $10 million to do XXX. Isn't he a greedy jerk? Its basically the same thing. The actors entertain people, so they are willing to pay for movies and make them a big part of their lives.

If your not a baseball fan, thats perfectly fine. If going to a game doesn't entertain you, by all means don't go. But why does that mean baseball should care what you think? If you haven't been supporting the sport, they are not going to value your opinion over the people who have been supporting it. The ones who buy season tickets. The companies with the luxury boxes. The ones who are paying for it.

Getting people to stop going might be nice... but so far it looks like people that are going like to go, don't think its a bad value, and are enjoying the sport.

quote Who here pays $5.00 to go to a movie? Or $4.00 to rent it? To watch multi-million dollar actors? Vin Diesal got $10 million to do XXX. Isn't he a greedy jerk? Its basically the same thing.[/B]

Yeah, and if the actors go on strike, I'll be saying the same things about them as I'm doing now for baseball... uh... (what do we call em? Oh yeah...) players (see? It is a game!).

since when were movies $5.00.. I spent bloody near $50 last time I went to the movies with my cousin.

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Ray · Email Me! · Fierosite.com · Fiero Chat! · Project White Phantom

>"Face it people, this is the root of it all.Jealousy."

"Speak for yourself."

That's the only person I ever do speak for. I presume to speak for nobody but myself. My statements were in referecne to the tone and content of yours, and others, posts on the subject and were my opinion.

>"It's a GAME?? Get real my friend. It's a business, And big business at that. "

"It was never a big business until free agency mixed with owner stupidity, and we see the outcome today."

Oh get real. It became a business as soon as there were professionals playing the sport.

>"Too bad you don't think it's serious enough to warrant respect as a business, but that doesn't change the fact that it is."

"Yes while it is a business, its a business based off a simple game."

So? What's your point? Does it matter what the business is based off? Does that mean that the movie Tomb Raider wasn't a commercial venture because it was based on a computer game? What a business is based on makes no difference whatsoever whether it's a business or not.

>"You work harder than a professional athelete? I think not."

"BWUAUHAHAHA. HAHA. HAHA."

Certainly glad I could cause you to chuckle. So prove me wrong. Just what is it that you do that's so taxing?

"I know people in better shape then pro athletes and they work a 9-5 job, so whats your point? Yes pro athletes have the talent to back up their physical attributes but it really isn't insanely hard work to stay in good shape, or even great shape. Talent is what gets them paid. Look at recent ball players, Cecil Fielder, Harold Baines even Jose Canseco toward the end of his career. These players were not exactly in the best of shape yet they made how much money?"

I'd suggest you qualify that. You know a few people that may be in better shape than some professional atheletes. As a group, the average american worker is in substantially poorer physical condition, by a very large degree, than the average professional athelete. And you know it.

"Poor things. What about the health problems people get in relation to their non-sports jobs. I guess they mean nothing since some pitcher has to have Tommy John surgery. Must be rough."

What about them? I'm not making the argument that people that work don't work hard. I'm saying that pro atheletes work at their job. They don't just show up, not the ones that are any good at it anyway. I'm not belittling anyone here, from the ditch digger to the lawyer to the pro athelete.

You are.

"Hey welcome to the real world, most people work 12 months out of the year, and more then just a few hours a day of exercising and hitting a ball with a wooden bat."

BS. While they may go to work 12 months a year, they don't work that much. First off, they work 5 day weeks. Then they get off for national holidays. That's 10 working days off (which, BTW, pro atheletes often have to play games on those days). So we're down to 11 1/2 months. MOST american workers get 2 weeks vacation time per year. Not all, but that IS the average. So now we're down to 11 months. MOST American workers also average 2 weeks of sick/personal leave a year. So now we're down to 10 1/2 months. MOST American workers also get other time off as well for religous (not recognized as official national holidays) days and other days off. In the course of a year, based on a 9-5 work day, there are 2080 hours that can be worked. The average American worker, not self employed, works about 1800 hours.

Tell me, how many games are played over the course of a baseball season? How many hours in a game? How many hours do you suppose are involved in spring training, pre and post game activities, etc.? Here's a clue, just for the time during game time in the regular season, they put in about 600 hours. An hour before and after the game makes that 900 hours. So we're already up to half the average worker's time. Surely you're not naive enough to think that's ALL the time they put in are you? In fact, they put in 3 to 4 times that many hours in training, practice, camp, etc. Before you say that's not possible, think about it first. When do they play? Holidays. Late at night. All the games in spring ball. Post season. Think before you speak.

"Bullsh!t. The fans are the ones keeping their butts employed. Thats like saying Wal Mart employees don't owe their customers anything."

No, you're comment is BS. Wal Mart employees owe their customers nothing. The Wal Mart store does. The employees don't work for the customers, they work for the store. There is a difference.

"I'd feel pretty good signing a multi-million dollar contract with a huge bonus just because I can throw a baseball."

How could you possibly feel good about it after all your pontificating about how wrong it would be to make that much money for just playing a game? Can you spell H Y P O C R I T E ?

"Did he play with newspapers wrapped around his feet in 22 inches of snow?"

No, he didn't. You see, baseball is a summer sport, so there's rarely any snow, particularly back when he played it because the seasons were shorter. And I don't think newspapers would have worked very well. At least when I saw him play he was always wearing his cleats. For someone with such strong opinions on the game I'm surprised I have to explain these really simple points to you.

"Thats where your wrong my friend. If we can get enough of these moronic "fans" who keep going to games to stop, it will change more then just a bit. It will change a whole whole lot."

I pretty much said the same thing you did, without managing to insult those people that enjoy watching the game, in the previous paragraph of my original post and your responded "ramble, ramble, ramble" So I guess now it's my turn:

Ramble, Ramble, Ramble.

John Stricker

Jumping in because I'm bored.
Baseball?? I guess some people still watch it. To each his own I guess..

Now on to the one thing that caught my eye.

I'd suggest you qualify that. You know a few people that may be in better shape than some professional atheletes. As a group, the average american worker is in substantially poorer physical condition, by a very large degree, than the average professional athelete. And you know it.

Try the US military, close to a million in uniform and unlike the "Pros" they can and do get killed doing their jobs while their average pay is around 30k a year. Guess we see what really counts in our society. Kinda sad when you think about it. I won't even go into what cops, firemen, EMT's make and what they have to put up with 24/7.

Ok, not quite done.. the players got a standing ovation for having the bravery to play a couple of weeks after 9/11. Guess what? Everyone else was back to work dealing with the same crap the next day. Hell maybe all the cops and military guys should go out on strike until all us greedy tax payers decide to pony up the bucks to pay these guys for what they put on the line everynight. Oh wait they tried that and the gov't stepped in and made them go back to work for the good of the community. Maybe the gov't should step in and put a 1mil cap on everyone's salary and tell these overpaid whiners to shut up and play for the good of the community.

Well that's my rant feel free to pick it apart like I trust you will.

You mean they still play now??? I dont go in for sports, but I thought the last strike about killed it. Im sure another one would be enough to bury it. Soccer seems to be taking over anyway.

The players are PROFESSIONAL players. While you may think they owe the fans something, they don't. They make their salaries when they show up on game day and play the game to the best of their ability.

Dude I don't disagree with most of the things you said but the above is an idiotic statement. Just as a walmart employee is nice to every person that comes through the door because they do owe us something. IF WE DON'T SHOP THIER THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB! Same with baseball but even more so. Their playing a game that has nothing you need to survive! It's just entertainment. If you think that baseball would continue and the owners would continue to pay them 100 million dollar contracts if their were no fans buying tickets then I guess your statement would hold water. But they wouldn't. So it's simple The owe us a little respect because if not for us buying tickets then they would be slugging away at a regular job like the rest of us.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: Try the US military, close to a million in uniform and unlike the "Pros" they can and do get killed doing their jobs while their average pay is around 30k a year. Guess we see what really counts in our society. Kinda sad when you think about it. I won't even go into what cops, firemen, EMT's make and what they have to put up with 24/7. Ok, not quite done.. the players got a standing ovation for having the bravery to play a couple of weeks after 9/11. Guess what? Everyone else was back to work dealing with the same crap the next day. Hell maybe all the cops and military guys should go out on strike until all us greedy tax payers decide to pony up the bucks to pay these guys for what they put on the line everynight. Oh wait they tried that and the gov't stepped in and made them go back to work for the good of the community. Maybe the gov't should step in and put a 1mil cap on everyone's salary and tell these overpaid whiners to shut up and play for the good of the community. Well that's my rant feel free to pick it apart like I trust you will.

Now this is a fairly good point... so I thought I would highlight it. I am not sure all cops or figherfighters are underpaid, although some definately are. I do believe that the military is seriously underpaid.

I haven't heard it since Sept 11, but before the attack there was some serious talk about instituting a peace time draft to keep the military stocked with soldiers because they were having such a hard time getting volunteers. They simply need to pay better, and they would find people to join. Plus its their butts that are on the line.

As for salaries of players, or anyone making a lot of money, doesn't this all come back to supply and demand? Good ole economics. A baseball player is worth what someone is willing and able to pay for him. That is based on what fans are willing and able to pay for a ticket to watch. Fans like to watch the better baseball players and teams, and therefore pay more to see them. The owners, wanting better players and teams so they can charge more for tickets, then pay more for the best players to get them. What makes the player so evil for wanting to keep the money rolling in if all these people are willing and able to pay? Like anyone else who has a job, they want to make as much as they can. I am yet to meet someone who didn't want to make as much money as they could at their job. I doubt many requests go to human resourses turning down raises.

It DOES come down to supply and demand, and that is what I have been saying. The DEMAND for entertainment in our country is WAY out of proportion, and WAY more of the money in our economy is shifted to relatively unimportant to worthless things--baseball, football, basketball, music, movies, cable, etc.

I'm not AGAINST those things, I am just repeating that the DEMAND for them is WAY out of proportion to their importance, esp. compared to other things in our society.

I HOPE the greedy turds strike. Find out soon.

Good point frontal lobe. Demand for entertainment in general is way out of proportion to what it probably should be.

Hi FF,

FWIW, this particular point even got me a couple of pm's. 8-)

Let me explain where I'm coming from. Think about this a minute. When you walk into a wally world, you see your friendly, senior, door greeter. After that, how often does a wally world employee come up and OFFER assistance? When you finally find what you want and meander your way to the checkout line (of which there are 78, 3 of which are in operation at any given moment) and you pay for your items, who do you make the check/CC slip, etc. out to? Friendly Ethel, with 3 years of service as an associate or "Wal Mart"? Now given those thoughts, where is the attention of the employee going to be? On the store first, customer second or the other way around? You already know the answer.

But wait, there's more. We went to wally world to by Roger a new Propeil Pocket Fisherman, something he told us that if we were able to find he'd treat us to lunch at his favorite eatery, HOOTERS. Since we were successful in our quest, we motored on down to the local Hooters where Ole' Roger was waiting for us, a cold beer on the table. Now think about the service you get at your Hooters. Is that service that is customer oriented? You damn betcha. Why do you suppose that is? Simple, the girls are working for YOU. YOU'RE going to tip her, directly. Oh, she makes a little money from the business, but it's a pittance compared to her tips. She's been taught and/or learned on her own how to take care of her customers and she's damn good at it because she IS working for you.

It's the same thing with Baseball. The players do NOT work for the fans. They owe them nothing except to play to their best abilities because THAT'S WHAT THEY PROMISED THEIR BOSSES THEY WOULD DO.

I hear the same thing with regard to police, teachers, fireman, etc. Get pulled over and the cop gets attitude from the person stopped. "Hey buddy, I pay YOUR salary!!!" No, you don't. You pay a small portion of that salary and, in fact, he's paying probably just as big a part of his OWN salary as you paid. And he does NOT work for you. He works for his department, school district, etc. That's who he works for and he owes you nothing but to do the job THEY hired him for to the best of his abilities with fairness and equality. Nothing more.

Think that over and see if you don't think I'm right on that. There is a different. Baseball Players, Wal Mart employees, etc., owe their customers not one damn thing beyond what their bosses have contracted them to do. Not one. My guess is that most people (but not all) that feel they do are probably NOT self employed nor have they ever been. Once you are, you really learn who you work for and it's NOT the same person.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by firstfiero: The players are PROFESSIONAL players. While you may think they owe the fans something, they don't. They make their salaries when they show up on game day and play the game to the best of their ability. Dude I don't disagree with most of the things you said but the above is an idiotic statement. Just as a walmart employee is nice to every person that comes through the door because they do owe us something. IF WE DON'T SHOP THIER THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB! Same with baseball but even more so. Their playing a game that has nothing you need to survive! It's just entertainment. If you think that baseball would continue and the owners would continue to pay them 100 million dollar contracts if their were no fans buying tickets then I guess your statement would hold water. But they wouldn't. So it's simple The owe us a little respect because if not for us buying tickets then they would be slugging away at a regular job like the rest of us.

Ahh where to start......

>>Oh get real. It became a business as soon as there were professionals playing the sport.

I never said it wasn't a business, I said "BIG" business. Read it again.

>>I'd suggest you qualify that. You know a few people that may be in better shape than some professional atheletes. As a group, the average american worker is in substantially poorer physical condition, by a very large degree, than the average professional athelete. And you know it.

So, your point? You act like it takes 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year to stay in good/great shape. It doesn't and can be done ALONG with a regular job. You didn't address my point of how certain players aren't in great or even good shape!

>>BS. While they may go to work 12 months a year, they don't work that much. First off, they work 5 day weeks. Then they get off for national holidays.

Oh yeah I see all the ball players out there on Christmas fielding ground balls. Friday/Saturday nights have always been Arods work out time....

>>So we're down to 11 1/2 months. MOST american workers get 2 weeks vacation time per year. Not all, but that IS the average.

2 weeks compared to what, 6 months? Off season? I guess Spring training sort of counts as "work", so you have 4 months of vacation. Working out a few hours a day does not constitute a work day.

>>Before you say that's not possible, think about it first. When do they play? Holidays. Late at night. All the games in spring ball. Post season. Think before you speak.

Baseball in Christmas? Um no. Thanksgiving? Not even. Your counting spring training as "work"? LOL, I think you should think before you speak. BTW how many teams actually make the post season?

>>No, you're comment is BS. Wal Mart employees owe their customers nothing. The Wal Mart store does. The employees don't work for the customers, they work for the store. There is a difference.

That makes about as much sense as all your other comments.

>>How could you possibly feel good about it after all your pontificating

Hey look he owns a dictionary

>>how wrong it would be to make that much money for just playing a game? Can you spell H Y P O C R I T E ?

Show me a statement of mine where I bitched about how much money they get for playing a game? I stated the average salary, yes.

>>No, he didn't. You see, baseball is a summer sport, so there's rarely any snow, particularly back when he played it because the seasons were shorter. And I don't think newspapers would have worked very well. At least when I saw him play he was always wearing his cleats. For someone with such strong opinions on the game I'm surprised I have to explain these really simple points to you.

Well I figured since baseball players work more then everyone else a couple feet of snow would never stop a group of hard laborers such as themselves. (p.s. I was joking then and I am joking now, get with the program)

For the record what frontal lobe said what I am trying to say - "My blame to the players and owners isn't about HOW MUCH they make, but them greedily fighting over dividing it up."

"It's the same thing with Baseball. The players do NOT work for the fans. They owe them nothing except to play to their best abilities because THAT'S WHAT THEY PROMISED THEIR BOSSES THEY WOULD DO. "

No one said they did. What we're saying is that they do owe us a bit of respect, just like the Hooters girls or the Walmart employee or the Wally world associate etc. etc. When players do **** like ignore fans who want a simple autograph (or even an acknowledgment for that matter), cuss at fans, charge hundreds of dollars for autographs etc. then I have a problem. It should be noted that not all players do this but a lot do. What would happen to the wally world associate if they cussed out a customer?

I have more too. The players work for the owners right? Well, would the owners want the fans to hate the players which in turn would hurt the owners profits? Of course not. Why would the fans hate the players? For doing things like Bonds does on a daily basis. On the other hand Cal Ripken brought fans to the ballpark because he was the exact opposite. So, is there job simply to play good baseball? Of course not. Bonds does that every night and fans hate him (for the most part).

Strike is off! Strike is off! So get over it.