Thanks for taking my little test Johnny. I baited you with my second response to this thread. Now, lets look at your response from an educated point of view. Since you obviously were never disciplined in an appropriate manner- not a beating or abuse, but just a lack of proper discipline- your response was one of violence, what many will agree to be extreme hatred. Now then, because of your response, I am sure that most readers can now see how some people's lack of proper discipline can lead to an outburst of anger. Right now, you are feeling rage against me, a person you have never met, just for some words that were written on a computer screen. If you were standing face to face with me, you would like to act out at me in a violent manner. Congrats Johnny! You passed the test, but that means you fail.

BTW- my oldest son is a police officer, actually a training officer and firearms instructor. My middle child graduated with a 4.0 GPA in education and is a teacher. My youngest child is still in college, working part time and not pregnant. They all call several times a week and visit from time to time during the week. It seems that before they leave, they always say that they love me. I guess you are just still wrong.
Thanks for playing along.

quote Originally posted by ray b: i was school chaplin in 7th grade read bible to class every day to start homeroom in 63. my dad forced me to go to sunday school too. my oppsition to christians came from reading the bible and seeing how it was used to suport segragation and war in viet-nam [kill a commi for christ]. evil done by selfrighttious christians is still evil. and they do alot of evil study their history not their self rightious BS .

In every group of people there are the right side people and the left side people. Followed by the few fanatical people who think that they are so self-important that they must force their own views onto others. (see original post of this thread)
Now who do you think gets the news printed? The fanatics. I just hope that some day you will actually see what is really going on. As you denounce bible thumping, religion, and christians, You are showing you are as narrow minded as they are. For everything you say is evil about religion, You are at the other end of the spectrum. Which means that they look at you as the evil of anti-religion or a self-rightous anti-christian. Does that clarify the problem for you? It's not about who's "more evil", It's about getting the 2 sides to come together and remove the hate between. But most narrow-minded people cannot identify the real problem because their own views are the way they want the world to be. Finally when one gets distraught and angry enough, the fanatics of EACH side take it to the violent stage.

Johnny, first of all. I was raised without being 'disciplinded' alot... well, not being spanked alot. I am one messed up lil 20yearold. I feel like going out and killing ppl on a ddaily basis. Seriously, if you sat down and talked to me for a while you'd understand exactly how messed up I really am. okie now on a serious note.

Psychical Punishment is not wrong, a guy goes out and murders someone, Do you think we out to tell that guy "Well Big Bobby, That guy you murdered, we really liked him. You shouldn't have done it. I want you to go to your cell for a couple hours and think about it." hehe.. and 2-3 years later he's out trying to bloody muder me and steal my fiero. Now that aint gonna cut it. I say fry his lil "Big Bobby" butt.. and be done with it. He murdered someone, therefore he must pay. Yes I give ya he should be given a fair trial. But still punishment for death should be death. hehe... oh my I got into a whole nother debate here. I'll just shut up now and let ya'll try to understand my rant.

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Galen - 1988 Hawaiian Orchid Coupe - Sunroof, shaved emblems, more to come..
Spinrpg.com - Free URL & e-mail Forwarding

Why is it everytime I "Wander" over the fence to the Off Topic area I see

Religion - Evolution - Creationism

and now Dr. Spock and praying and raising of children.

Well I guess if I ever get bored with the Fiero stuff you guys can keep me pre occupied

Seriously though....

First.... I was raised a good Ol' Southern Baptist. I name the denomination only for the sake of you seeing the Ol' to show my Suthern ****ry Backass uh I mean Background.

Many good points through all of the previous posts above. If anything it tells me alot about the people on the board

And as always some ignorant ones. I will say Yes I am what you would call a christian and I was raised by "Old School" parents and as the good book says have not "Departed from it"

Have I drank to much? Yes!
Have I stayed out to late? Yes!
Have I Lied? Yes
I still smoke! I am a bad person!

The only thing that makes a "Christian" different according to our belief structure is that we have forgiveness for this.

AGAIN just a belief! Now I am not saying that you have believe it! Of course you dont. Thats what makes America great!

BUT one of the main points of what everyone is trying to say is you have to have structure! especially when young. It just so happens that the basics truths of our belief system I.E "The Ten Commandments" are a Solid way of bringing up kids.

I think all children should be taught these beliefs and rules and the PARENTS SHOULD BE AN EXAMPLE which doesnt happen enough. HEY MOM' and DAD's !!! ITS NOT "DO AS I SAY NOT AS DO!!" Parents should be the examples in our society but in alot of cases they are not. Churches are as guilty as the parents!
They speak of love but dont walk in it. To much hypocracy everywhere. Its enough to make anyone not go to church!

Anyway off the box!

In parting here is a point...(STORY)

I was walking in the woods one day far away from my grandfathers house. I got lost and could not find my way back. I kept looking but as the day go shorter I got more and more upset and could not think straight. I felt sick and just wanted to kill myself. I was thinking all kinds of crazy things! Well I came across a boundry and realized it was my grandfathers fence. I now had a point of reference and knew If I followed it I would find my way back.

The point is you have to instill guidelines or a Fence per say that say you can not go any farther. If you do you can always find your way back because you know were you are in the woods and in LIFE!

If kids were taught these rules and they were instilled early in life .....no matter were they go they would at least know were they are in life! But they are not so they walk aimlessly looking for something and usually results in depression, violence, and or Suicide. Alot of times just because they dont know "were they are" in life.

Dr. BLAH BLAH has left the building

[This message has been edited by RobertVol (edited 03-31-2001).]

No Terry, I haven't failed your "test". I just proved that some people haven't evolved as much as others. YOu being one of the primates. If you still believe that physical punishment is good, well.. Hurray for you. I don't believe I said I would like to beat you physically. I believe i said that in your world of physical discipline, you should be beaten. I wasn't raised the way I would have liked to have been. I was raised the standard way. I KNOW my parents were much better parents than yours were, and it just makes me sad to see that you cannot see how wrongly you were raised.

Well said Johnny, but still wrong. Funny how you have gone from attacking me to now attacking my parents. You sound like the little boys on the playground saying "My daddy can beat up your daddy." If I am so wrong, why do so many of the intelligent messages in this thread have views similiar to mine?

I have a challenge for all you arm-chair givers of advice. Take a week's vacation and go down to the local junior high and volunteer to substitute for a week. At the very least I think you will come out with a very different perspective on discipline, the breakdown of the core family, and lack of parenting that we as educators are faced with on a daily basis, believe me it is no simple task. When you put about 650 harmone driven adolescents in one location life becomes very interesting. Today's classroom is not your classroom of 1963.

Thanks for listening,
Mrs. Stimpy
A 10 year veteran of the junior high

Terry.. I don't see a huge flooding of responses that are like yours. It's pretty dumb for you to say that my opinion "Is wrong". That being said, I am done with you, because you are ignorant, and a waste of my time.

Mrs. Stimpy: My old high school had 2500 people, and minus a fight every few months, it was a very peaceful school.

Whatever. . . Since you can't win the argument, just quit and go home. Crybaby! Look back at the opinions of what people have said, dumbass. They are about discipline, or the lack of it. You are so self centered and ignorant you can't even see what is right in front of your face. You are correct, it is time to move on. But I will still keep saying you are wrong, just as long as you tell me I am wrong. After all, that is my right. So- you are still wrong.

Oh, I see. But it's mature to call me a crybaby because I want to finish this argument and a dumbass? Thats a way to put a finishing touch on your argument. Congratulations.

Hahahahaha! You fell for it again. Hook, line and sinker. You are so funny.

Yup.. (?).. Pretty funny I suppose... Simple minds... Simple pleasures.

Johnny drop it... You're opinion as I read it, I may be wrong, is that psychical punishment is wrong? that kinda of thinking leads to school shootings. heh.. and dorkie lil ppl driving hondas with juan on the tail pipe.

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Galen - 1988 Hawaiian Orchid Coupe - Sunroof, shaved emblems, more to come..
Spinrpg.com - Free URL & e-mail Forwarding

Yes, I believe physical punishment is wrong. It's people who WERE physically punished that lead to school shootings, not the other way around.

So a child doing something it was told not to is gonna be punsihed enough by sending em to their room? heh, yeah right. Perhaps by standing em in a corner? though that is annoying as hell, its only temporary. Pyshical Discaplining is a viable way of punishing children. I'm not saying that its the correct way 100% of the time, But alot of children now a day do not respect their parents, I know my brothers children are like that, with their mother. She's a horrible parent. They behave plenty when my brothers around. Cuz he will spank em. Does it work? Yes it does. Does it cause ppl to shoot schools up? doubtful, I never knew any of my three brothers to go and 'f&ck up a school'.

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Galen - 1988 Hawaiian Orchid Coupe - Sunroof, shaved emblems, more to come..
Spinrpg.com - Free URL & e-mail Forwarding

I've stayed out of this as long as I can.I sucessfully raised 5 kids.Each one needed a different kind of discipline.I learned to be a parent as they learned to be just kids knowing what limits of behavior would be tolerated.If they needed a swat when we were out they got it then,not when they got home and forgot why they were being punished.If they went up the steps in the house like they were trying to put their feet through the floor they would go up and down the steps 10 times very quietly.I didn't have to do that very much.What I'm trying to say is,there are times when smacking is necessary and times when a word or talking to is all that is necessary.One important thing;I always treated my kids as young people with feelings.If I made a mistake and punished them unjustly or wronged them I would explain to them that parents make mistakes too.I was supportive of any activities they tried.Bottom line is I have 5 kids who I am proud of.They are raising their own families now and are doing a fine job.AND most important.Their mother and I have their love and respect.You can't ask for more than that!

Whew. For a second I thought you were going to say you beat them cause they stamped their feet going up the stairs.. I respect your position Hugh.. You make a good case, unlike some others.

Mrs. Stimpy, I completly agree! A few weeks ago a scond grade child stood up at me and said, "My momma said there ain't nobody in this school gonna make me do anything I don't wanna do. I ain't doing this crap and you ain't gonna make me."
So, Johnny since you have all the answers, what do you do for that kind of disrespect?
I handled the situation and now have no more trouble from this child, but I want to know what you would do.

I am still young, and a simple talk that lets me know it makes you FEEL bad, does a lot more from parents than a beating. I used to be the biggest pain. my parents would stay up late crying at night. But then they realized, they have to EXPLAIN how it makes them feel. And once i got old enough that I knew what they were feeling, I smartened up. And that age is pretty young. So what did you do to "handle" the kid? Gave him a whuppin?

JohnnyK, I see your point about talking, But from what Cooter said, the parents have told the child that they don't have to listen to the teacher. Now that is where I believe the problem is. If the child is taught by the parent to disrespect the teacher, The child will now associate that he/she doesn't need to respect the school. That's when the trouble begins. I don't think talking to the child and saying it "hurts you" is going to help in this particular situation. A child has more respect for their parents than their teacher. Especially when the parents have told the child "My momma said there ain't nobody in this school gonna make me do anything I don't wanna do. I ain't doing this crap and you ain't gonna make me."
Spanking the child in the above situation isn't correct either. Like Hugh said, You need to discipline the child accordingly.
In the above situation, I would say it would have to be in the parents hands. I would personally call the mother into class and talk to her. If you were to "outcast" the child from class activities in order to use "peer presure", it could backfire and cause others to use the same attitude.
I am curious how Cooter handled the child.
But like I said, the situation exampled above is more the parents fault than the childs. The term "Don't shoot the messanger" comes to mind.

mmm.. shoot em both hehe.. just kidding, so the point I made earlier has shown it widdled down to being the parents fault. I am good ya know..

quote Originally posted by Galen: mmm.. shoot em both hehe.. just kidding, so the point I made earlier has shown it widdled down to being the parents fault. I am good ya know..

I don't believe it's the parents fault alone.
The problems today are the sum of many different things. Parents, teachers, so called "experts" advise, the governments, and all the fanatic people who are swaying the unsure with propaganda. It did not take one thing to cause the problems and it won't be one answer to correct/end them. The problem is only going to get bigger. One day the problems will end but as to how long and at what cost we'll never know.

I agree, but them so called 'experts' putting the blame on music or games or TV/Movies is wrong. Like you said, theres more than one reason to the problem.

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Galen - 1988 Hawaiian Orchid Coupe - Sunroof, shaved emblems, more to come..
Spinrpg.com - Free URL & e-mail Forwarding

I sent the child to the assistant principal. After the child explained everything to him, he called the mother in for a conference and explained a few things about school law and how good our attorneys are. Once the mother knew that there was no way she could sue us for following school board policy and win, everything has been fine.

If anybody thinks that having religion in schools would have prevented Columbine, you're kidding yourselves. More atrocities have been committed in the name of religion than for any other cause in the history of mankind. Have you heard of the Crusades or Jihad?

So Johnny, you are telling everyone how to raise their kids even though you have no experience? Wow, I am impressed. I guess that makes you a real expert. I figured you were about 50 years old with 7 or 8 kids of your own. You sure do talk a big talk for a kid. Like Hugh said, different kids will need their own system of discipline and what worked for you will not work for everyone. SJP- that has already been covered in great detail.

quote Originally posted by sjp777: If anybody thinks that having religion in schools would have prevented Columbine, you're kidding yourselves. More atrocities have been committed in the name of religion than for any other cause in the history of mankind. Have you heard of the Crusades or Jihad?

Why do people only see the religion side of the initial post? The post was NOT about religion by itself. The post was to show that MANY things contributed to the problems we have today. Yes, MAYBE religion has a part, But the "Experts" who tell us what were doing wrong, the attitudes of the parents and teachers, the lack of respect for the schools, and the governments are as much to blame (if not more so). Please look at the entire message portrayed.