Jesus loves you!!!!

j/k

[This message has been edited by KnightRyder31 (edited 03-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by KnightRyder31 (edited 03-06-2001).]

Not if he knows what I've done

Why'd you put "j/k"? HE wasn't.

he may have, so what, his followers don't unless you play their game.
buy the way his name was not jesus it was
ya-sho-wa [joshua].
beleve all you want, what ever you want to beleve, but do not inforce laws based on
fairy tales.

rayb, start a "Religion vs. Laws" thread would ya.

Don't like the laws we have in the US, move to China.

Canada's nice.. Come up here Ray..

quote Originally posted by ray b: he may have, so what, his followers don't unless you play their game. buy the way his name was not jesus it was ya-sho-wa [joshua]. beleve all you want, what ever you want to beleve, but do not inforce laws based on fairy tales.

Where are you coming from? I didn't see anyone "enforcing laws"? Based on Fairy Tales? Agreed that the bible can be interperated many ways and has been translated many different ways also, but a fairy tale? Do you even comprehend what your typing?

Yeah ray, go to Canada where you don't have a Constitution protecting seperation of church and state. Really, I don't care where you go, just take your hate with you. I cannot believe that my fellow forum members have been so tolerant of your hateful message. Take the word "christian" in any of your messages and replace it with any other group and there would be a huge outcry. Your language is unnecessarily inflammatory and rife with prejudice. Please keep your hate to yourself, and I promise not to send a bunch of Bible-toting thugs to break your thumbs.

Hey Ray,

Like it or not, this country was founded as a Christian nation.

Quote's

George Washington - "It is impossible to govern correctly without God and the bible"

Patrick Henry - "This nation is founded upon the gospel of Jesus Christ"

Seperation of church and state, is not in our Constitution. That statement was made in a speech by Thomas Jefferson. He said that in the first part of the speech. In the second part, he talks about using Judeo-Christian principles in goverment.

The Constitution say that ther shall be no etablishment of religion. That means no Church of the USA. It does not mean that you cant pray in school, put a manger scene on the town square, ect.

The first session of Congress opened with 3 hours of prayer. THEY STILL OPEN WITH PRAYER.

Ray, if you hate religion, Christ did too. He fought the Pharasies the whole time He was on earth. He want's people to have a relationship with Him. If religious people hurt you or offended you, then they will have to answer to God for that. I hope he reveals Himself to you. Ask and you will receive.

Bill

So rayb, should we repeal all laws that might be traced back to thou shalt not kill, steal, etc. ?

Most rules of conduct can probably be traced back to some religion. Should we just get rid of all of them?

Not sure that flaming him to a crisp will help his view of us Christains. Keep that in mind. Love the sinner, hate the sin, remember?

------------------
Fuzz busters are for those who can't outrun the cops.

AIM: phool88fiero

Come on guys, let this thread die a miserable death. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I don't see us coming to any sort of agreement on this topic anytime soon. Just hate to see forum members at each others throats...

- Why argue over what His name was in his original language? He goes by lots of names.

- Should we trash the calendar we currently use?

- I, too, caution you not to be intolerant of intolerance. There are those who are intolerant of Christians because of mistaken perceptions of our intolerance, and we wouldn't want to lose our freedom to speak out about what's right and what's wrong. Therefore, we shouldn't exercise the same persecution on others. Disagree, yes, but with wisdom and reason. Remember, love even those who hate you.

WOW!
I didn't think this thread would even last this long.

Haaa!
You bible thumpers crack me up.
If you guys REALLY followed what Jesus taught, you'd all be devout JEWS!
Because Jesus was born, taught, and died a Jew.
Note that the first time that he inserted himself well and truly into the priests crosshairs (during the Passover celebration were he made a scene in the temple), he got strung up for treason. Not a very long career as a Pharasee fighter, maybe a couple of years.
Just one of many Jews who taught a particularly militant type of Jewish belief, that atagonised enough people at the wrong time to get himself killed.
Probably a nice guy, ran around with the wrong crowd tho'. Certainly not a god or demi-god as the Christian religion has transformed him into.
I think that if Jesus were transported forward into time , into this day and age, he'd smack every Christian upside their haid and say "what the h*ll are you thinkin' about!"
* Oh yeah, chalk up another vote for evolution, baby!*

Sorry guys... But you all seem to have be quite angry with Ray.. Seems he is just stating what he thinks. As christians, shouldn't you love him, and accept his ideas? Not threaten to "Send someone to break his thumbs" stimpy.. Sounds like the average Christian to me, actually..

First off, I've never represented myself on the forum as being a Christian. I don't think my choice of doctrine is as easily catagorized. So don't blame others for my words.
My problem with ray's anti-religion propaganda just goes to a thing about prejuidice. What if I were to paraphrase ray's words to say "Black people are all devoid of morals" or "Fags are all dangerous and cannot be trusted" or how about "Blond haired blue eyed people are all Nazis and are responsible for hundereds of thousands of deaths."
That kind of ignorant drivel would not be tolerated in our diverse society and should not.

This is not to say that he should not have the right to speak his mind, but I have every right to call it exactly as I see it, and that is he is a small-minded ignorant hate mongerer. And just in case the ignorance is spreading, I did NOT threaten to send Bible toting thugs to break ray's thumbs. I, in fact, promised NOT to do that exact same thing.
Put down the Molsen's, Johnny, and sober the hell up.

I all isn't angry with anybody.

There's a lot of pain in some of these posts, likely caused by folks believing themselves to be doing the lord's work while hurting their own through ignorance.
Lessons worth learning are best taught by example. I know I choke when being force fed, even if its good stuff.

You never represented yourself as being Christian? Well, you talk about the Christian god, you talk about believing the bible, I'd say you basically said you were a Christian. "Sober the hell up" "In case the ignorance is spreading". Since you are obviously mad at something, and spewing off garbage, I suggest you quiet down before you say something that makes you look like a complete ******* .

For those of you who dont believe in God, well, thats your belief (or lack of)...what a sad existance. None the less, I can respect your opinion..just dont belittle those of us who do believe in God. Im assuming Gixxer is Jewish, I dont see anybody bashing him....I certainly wouldnt.
Just respect peoples opinion.

[This message has been edited by My7Fieros (edited 03-08-2001).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Sorry guys... But you all seem to have be quite angry with Ray.. Seems he is just stating what he thinks. As christians, shouldn't you love him, and accept his ideas? Not threaten to "Send someone to break his thumbs" stimpy.. Sounds like the average Christian to me, actually..

Um, no. The idea is that we accept the person, not the ideas or actions. Like phool said: Love the sinner, hate the sin.

What was the point of this post again?

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: You never represented yourself as being Christian? Well, you talk about the Christian god, you talk about believing the bible, I'd say you basically said you were a Christian. .

Due to my proximity to Missouri, all I can say is "Show me". I know what my beliefs are, and I know what I say. Just because I don't lockstep in your hatred of organized religion, does not make me out to be what you paint me as. I do not deny Christ, however I have made it very clear in previous posts on the matter that I believe God's truth to be accesible to ALL who purely seek it. Not just to those who worship in a certain manner.

But that's not really relevant. I don't have to be a black man to be offended by the word n!gger. I don't have to label myself as "born-again" to be offended by the hate speech against that group either.

As far as my comment "Sober the hell up", I was trying to cut you some slack and give you an excuse for sounding like a stupid belligerent punk. Sorry if I missed the mark on that one.

not by their words but by their deeds you will know them.the best bible quote ever.
most of the founding fathers were not members of christian churches they were
deitic,Geo Washington never took communion.
and some were open athiest, some hidden.
my ancesters built this place and we don't cut and run but stand and fight.
why are christian immune from censor for their miss deeds.i don't hate christians
i just want the repression and killing to stop 1,000,000,000 dead is way too many to forget about.athiest don't kill to convert
christians and never have but christian have long record of killing athiests and others so callled heritics.
g W bush is now tring to change laws and rules to favor one group and that is wrong.

Stimpy: I don't ever remember spewing off hatred. Please show me where I did this. All I did was state MY opinion that I believe in science. I don't ever remember saying anything full of hate or prejudice. And I ESPECIALLY don't remember saying anything racist. (I'm the one who knows the term ricer is racist, remember?

What if David Koresch was the second comming?
Uh oh..

quote Originally posted by ray b: i just want the repression and killing to stop 1,000,000,000 dead is way too many to forget about.athiest don't kill to convert christians and never have but christian have long record of killing athiests and others so callled heritics.

There you go again with the stereotyping. I have never killed anyone. There are plenty of non-Christian people in History who have killed Christians for their beliefs. What about that girl from Columbine that was shot because she believed in God? Whatever is in the past is over and done with. Can we please talk about the present now?

Faith is bases upon you belief that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, to open the gates to Heaven.

The Bible states in many places that Human are indeed sinners by nature, and it is only through trusting in Jesus that you may gain entrance to Heaven.

While christians are expected to behave in a certain moral way (ie, try their best to sin as little as possible), they will infact sin like everyone else.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Sounds like the average Christian to me, actually..

I wouldn't say that your posts have been as blatantly hateful as ray's, per se, but that type of glib over-simplification and broad catagorization is symptomatic of a distrust of people of faith.
As far as having a belief in science, I fully acknowledge that science brings us many advantages to our society. However, I also feel in my own senses that there are many things far beyond the reach of explanation.

My sense on religion is this... EVERY SINGLE RELIGION IS A CREATION OF MAN. There, I said it. Does that mean that God was created by man? To many it does, but not in my belief. Call it God, the Force, or just that little cosmic glue that holds us all together instead of flinging our atoms to the wind, I sense that there is something wonderful and mystical that makes our existence possible. Science has not given me an adequate answer of what that is, but my primitive reptilian brain looks to something bigger. If that makes me superstitious, fine, I can live with that. It helps me through the night.

But I do wish someone would lighten up on the "McChristians Billions and Billions Slain" kick. If you want to pick on a group that has committed the majority of atrocities in the modern era, pick on the British.

God Save the Queen, Johnny.

quote Originally posted by ray b: my ancesters built this place and we don't cut and run but stand and fight.

Your ancesters built what place? America? Sorry your ancesters STOLE this place. Unless of course you are full blood American Indian. If you are talking about the entire planet, Everyone's ancesters built it.
Please think about what you're saying.

quote From rayb why are christian immune from censor for their miss deeds.i don't hate christians i just want the repression and killing to stop 1,000,000,000 dead is way too many to forget about.athiest don't kill to convert christians and never have but christian have long record of killing athiests and others so callled heritics. .

Again, you are taking things that happen way back in history and stating they are happening today. Maybe you should open your eyes and see what is really going on, instead of closing them and using your hate to guide you.

WAKE UP.

Matthew 5: "...Blessed are the meek... the merciful... the pure in heart... the peacemakers..." - These are people who make the world easier to live in. There have been (and are still) people who call themselves "Christians" to justify killing of others, but they are not true Christians. There are surely people of every group who have killed in the name of their group, don't target just Christians, and don't take the wrong actions of some to characterize all.

quote why are christian immune from censor for their miss deeds.i don't hate christians i just want the repression and killing to stop 1,000,000,000 dead is way too many to forget about.athiest don't kill to convert christians and never have but christian have long record of killing athiests and others so callled heritics. g W bush is now tring to change laws and rules to favor one group and that is wrong.[/B]

I've heard you talk about a billion dead before. Where's the evidence? It wasn't until recently (at least compared to the age of Christianity) that the world even had a billion people on it. Most of the people in recorded history who have died have died in the 20th century: 70 million at the hands of Mao Tse Tung, 40 million by Stalin, 6 million Jews and several million others by Hitler. When has the pope slaughtered 30 million? Why are the stones of the Vatican not stained red from all this bloodshed?
Don't call Christianity violent. What were the Muslims doing in the several centuries before the crusades?
If you want a violent religion, you need look no further than Islam. Muslims are commanded: "fight the unbeliever near you". There's no such thing in the words of Jesus.

Pick on the british? I do!

Religion has been the primary cause of most wars throughout history and it's ongoing (middle east). Religion has been another way to divide people and classify them. No one religion is any better than any other. Violence among all of them is documented. Look at the temper flaring on this board.

I choose to belive in myself and not give a rat's ass what anybody else believes in.

talking about this is like a Fiero vs. MR2 vs. CRX flame war. That all a religious discussion between varying groups will bring.

This is a Fiero message board, I don't come here to diss Fiero's but to learn and teach in a positive way.

Go to your own churches and discuss your beliefs there not here.

I know this is the O/T section, but it is supposed to be for other things we may have in common and for positive discussion. No?

Just my views. You don't have to agree. But I don't care.

belfast bosnia bayrut brundia-rwanda
are the reasons to remmeber history right now not in distant past.
in brundia and rwanda just a few years ago they had a war,with over 1/2 million killed said it was tribal but one tribe was catholic
the other baptist and methodist and war was started by catholic priest in quest for power.remmeber history or repeat it.
btw the pope was a ally of hitlers in the killing of jews and others
all i want is peace not war on anyone
kill a commi for christ was the cry in 60's
when we said give peace a chance.
and christian schools in south were about race not peace or love and now bush want to pay them?

[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 03-08-2001).]

rayb, how does funding private schools with taxpayer dollars relate to creationism or evolutionary theories?

rayb you need to read some history books. The Pope was NOT allied with Hitler or Germany. Italy was. The Vatican City is considered it's own territory and was neutral. Mussulini was banned from stepping onto Vatican soil unless he renounced his pact with Germany.
The Brundia/Rwanda war was tribal. Tribal does not mean religion. Technically the american civil war was tribal. Many of the things you talk about have nothing to do with religion but more so of race. You need to quit confusing religion and racism.

Rat...woops, I mean Ray and JonnyK-
Are you guys f'n stupid!?!?
Jesus still loves you .
And stop f'n with Stimpy!

Hey!
I'm no Jew.
I'm a Roman Catholic gone bad!
Go ahead and bash away at me, in fact call me the Anti-christ if you want, I don't care.
Just don't call me a sport-ute or pickup truck driver. =(
BTW, I think this is all funny as h#ll!
Gonna go and fiddle with my new front Koni shocks that just arrived.
Have fun, eh!

Stop f'ing with stimpy? I don't see what I did. I'm not saying things like Ray, all I'm saying is I think science is better than organized religion. I don't see the problem? I don't see why some people are getting offended! I think that stimpys (and yours knightryder) are supposed to TRY and insult me. I'm not saying anything like that.