Ok.. this is gonna take a while to explain.. I feel pretty bad right now, and I could use a bit of advice... or maybe some encouragement.. or maybe some insight into how teenage girls minds work...... I don't know...... I'm just depressed and wanted to tell someone how I felt about this whole thing.

First, let me say this. I don't have many friends. I'm very quiet and shy, and I don't know many people. I always try to be nice, to help others.. I don't drink.. I don't smoke.. I don't do drugs.. I'm not into partying.. so I don't meet many people.. I've only been to 2 bars in my life, and both times I just stood there and did nothing until I got bored enough to leave. I just went to be with my friends anyway...

about 6 weeks ago, a friend of mine from New Zealand (whom I talk to over ICQ) said he'd met a girl (Allie) from Kincardine (my town) in a chat. So, he sent me her UIN and I sent her a message. we started talking, and she sounded pretty cool. I went to my college for a weekend in June, for a pre-frosh week.. she asked if she could come with me. I laughed, and said I didn't think it was allowed. later on she introduced me to a friend of hers, (Raven) and I started talking with her as well. Allie asked me to buy her some smokes.. my first thought was to say "no way in h*ll", cause I'm very anti-smoking. but I thought I'd get to know her first, and maybe I could help her quit....
she started begging.. said "please, I'll do anything" so.. just joking around, and a bit of flirting too, I said "like what? " and she said "anything you want".

by now I was used to her saying stuff like that.. later on she asked me if I wanted her to bl*w me... honestly, I was shocked by this... so I said I barely knew her, and wanted to get to know her before I'd consider anything like that..

she started bugging me to meet her and Raven.. so we arranged a time to meet, at the school.. I showed up 10 minutes early, and they were already there. I said hi, and we stood there for a couple minutes.. then allie said they had to go meet her mom, and we should hang out some other time when they didn't have to go right away.. I immediatly thought "ok, that's a lame excuse cause they don't like me" but I think that about everything cause I don't have much self esteem..

anyway, later that night raven came on icq, and I said hi.. and I told her I thought she was very beautiful.. she basically said "umm.. thanks... I gotta go now" and she's acted weird ever since. (4 days)

I talked with another one of allie's friends, who kept asking me what I thought of allie.. all along, I had no intention of being anything other than a friend, so what did it matter that I wasn't attracted to allie at all? (either way, they're both a bit too young for me anyway..) allie's friend asked me if I thought allie was ugly, or a bit*h, etc.. I laughed and said I didn't think she was ugly, and I didn't know her well enough to make a judgement like that.. well, I did.. but I'm too nice to say that to someone..

tonight, I got a message from raven and she told me that not only did allie think I'm boring.. but I'm stupid and ugly too.. and I'm a disgusting freak.. she started calling me all sorts of names... and then denied that she was flirting with me *big time* for a month and a half..

I honestly don't know what I did wrong. I just wanted to be friends with them.. so what if I thought raven is attractive, I think most girls are.... I wasn't trying to pick them up.. I never said anything nasty to them.. I never implied I was interested in allie.. (or that I was even trying for raven.. even assuming she was a few years older, she'd still be way out of my league.. nevermind the fact that she's "cool" and I'm a "freak".. and most of her friends are people I consider enemies...)

I don't understand it.. I don't really care if allie doesn't get along with me, she drinks and smokes and does drugs and is a bit of a sl*t... but raven is nice, smart, doesn't smoke a lot, and has never been with a guy before.. and she realizes that most of the guys who like her, just want sex.. in short, she's a nice girl. and yet somehow I seem to have made her mad at me too.. sure I flirted with both of them.. I do that with most girls I talk to.... but in this case I just wanted to be friends......

now allie is saying a bunch of sh*t about me.. and raven is also mad...

what did I do wrong???????????

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com

What did I do wrong ???????

I suppose thats one of the secrets of life my man. If men understood women , I guess, all the "mystery" would be gone.

I don't think you did anything wrong. Are you sure she was smoking cigarettes? Could'a been the ciga-weed. Maybe they screwed her up. If it makes you any happier, she'll die soon anyway. I'm sure that her yellow teeth, horse sh*t breath and lung cancer won't be appealing to anyone in the future. You'll always have the last laugh.

Wow that was really confusing. From what I gathered My guess is allie liked you and maybe found out you like raven so allie started saying some foul sh!t about you to raven make you seem like a jerk because she was jeolous. If all of a sudden she's acting like that you know someone got to her.

Anyways I think you should forget about both of them. I think your exactly my age 18 right? Both going into our freshman years of college. Its a great time to "start over". Your going to meet so many hot college girls next year! Theyll be more mature.

Here's what you did wrong. You put the words "teenage", "girls", "minds", and "work in the same sentence.

maybe try getting over your shyness. Everytime you see a hot girl just force yourself to go talk to her. (no matter how hot she is) After a while it will get easier and easier. Then youll get good at it. Then youll get #'s. Just think to yourself OK Im the man It's not gonna kill me to say hi to her. Good luck!

I've never claimed to understand women, heck, I don't even understand myself sometimes. But, BooDog is right. Allie apparently had the hots for you. She even suggested having sexual activities with you. You popped her ego when you didn't take her up on it. Then you showed some interest in her girlfriend. Come on Darky, it don't take an experienced playboy or a rocket scientist to figure this one out. You struck out with both of them. Better forget about both of them, it's history. You're going to meet lots of nice ladies in school. The name calling and being rude to you is a sign of them (female friends stick together) being pissed off and immature. However, if you ever do finally figure women out, write a book, it'll be a best seller.

Hard saying, sounds like imature childishness, to me, I always had one rule, and still do, NO HEAD GAMES!!!!! You start playing head games with me and boom, I am gone, not worth the frustration. Let your yes be yes and your no be no, anyone who can't deal straight with you just isn't worth the energy. Maybe that is a bit harsh, but I have enough to deal with, who needs that?

thanks everyone.. I sorta guessed most of that already, but it's nice to hear that some other people can't figure out girls either..

to be fair, yes.. I was slightly interested in raven.. to the extent that I thought she's very attractive, and a nice person.. and if she were 3-5 years older... she'd probably make a really good girlfriend.. (not for me though... I'm not her type..)

but... since she's not 3-5 years older... I figured.. nice to look at, but too young for me.. I wasn't trying to pick her up, or hit on her, etc. (either of them)

anyway, I still feel pretty crappy...

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com

Sounds like immaturity on the girls part, Steve. Just wait until you get older. You'll learn that women are impossible to figure out, too.

Well, my take is exactly what batboy said!

I can add but this:

When you were overwhelmed with Ravens beauty and told her so, well you figured it out she instantly thought "he just wants sex!"
Now if you can think back on how you reacted to Allie when you met her.
How did you act to her?
Was it the "same" as you did to Raven?
Point being if I'm correct is that more than likely you were more of an equal to Allie maybe even rude or jokeing to Allie.
Raven, Raven you probably acted nice and were a gentle-man told her what you "thought" she wanted to hear gave her complements creaped her out is what you did.

How to correct this.

When you first meet a girl for the first time don't sweat it! Matter of fact try to tease and act like they can never have you!

Women are atracted to men who are hard to get, they like projects. If you would have said yes to Allies services she would have lost interest sooner, unless that is you constantly verbaly abused her!

When the challenge of changeing you or attracting your attention fails and they deside in thier mind you are unatainable thats when you give complements not until then.

Nothing attracts a girl more than a girl!
if a girl see's you talking to anouther girl you instantly doubled your value. Use this to your advantage. Basicly if you like girl "X" flirt to girl "X's" friend. That's how you will get "X" to like you.

To get Raven if you realy want her (I don't recomend this) try to become friends with Allie. What ever you do don't talk about Raven period!
Get to the point were your image with Allie is good again. Wait a while before the move. Then and, I mean this, be a dick to Raven I mean it be a dick! Make sure Allie likes you alot or this will not work. At first Allie will like you, Raven will hate you. Begin to talk to Raven more on an equal terms but never in front of Allie. No complements yet.

Look for signs: Raven laughs at your jokes, she trys to get close to you, she's begineing to dig you now but keep her on the leash. Take your time and begine to become her friend. Again not in front of Allie. When Raven shows these sign then you can give complements spareingly. Soon she'll want you. By then you won't want her!

My true recomendation is find a girl like you. Shy, same values, and one that doesn't know how to play games.
It takes time to find the right one you know these two aren't THE ONE so have fun with the girlies. If dateing is all you want treat the girls as if they are something to do that night. Take no interest in them, never call the next day and promise to call and forget. It works I swear!

I am always a gentleman and never unkind to girls/women. These are from my experiences from reactions of girls I didn't like, and reactions of girls to A holes they liked.

Women are easy to understand it's the game they play that is perplexing.

Don't take my word for it try it.

Uh-oh. Bad advice alert! While everything Fierocious said works on some women, they are EXACTLY the type of woman you should avoid. Women who like assholes will turn you into an assh*le . They want their life to be a steaming pile of drama. Yes, being a total prick and all will attract tricks like Allie and Raven, but how will that set with your own integrity? I say wait for college and be yourself. The world is full of women.

Ok, just read over ALL of Fierocious' post. He makes a lot of sense in the end. Listen to him. I'll shut up now!

[This message has been edited by stimpy (edited 07-27-2000).]

let me tell you all i know about rocket science instead.

you count backward. when you get to 0 the rocket goes up in the air.

sad to say, but i know less about women.

Life would be so much easier if you could jus ground their diagnostic terminal and read the fault code. But then the list of codes would probably fill volumes!

Take Fierocious' advice-find a girl like you. I'm 18 too, and I've been with my girl for a year and never been in a single fight. We're like best friends (with "benifits"). I never had any luck with women either, antil I met BJ, and now I don't even think about it. I've been in your situation several times, and you just need to enjoy college, and don't go looking for the right girl, more than likely she will fall in your lap. (The trick is knowing who's the "right girl") That's my advice, as best as I can give it.

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'85 GT (in progress)
titled ICE-plates B LO 0

Go to www.audioimagery.i-p.com !!!

It's so long ago I don't remember being your age.I can tell you from my kids experience when you get to college you'll gravitate to other people,or groups that share your interests.In those groups,or among those other people there will be women(not girls)who will be able to make you forget any feelings of inadequacy you may feel now.This will seem like a bad dream.

b lo 0 hit it on the head! Quit looking so hard! It'll find you.
Looking back, I wish I had done more to experience life! Go take scuba lessons, or even flying lessons! Get into something totally off the wall! Skydiving! Those folks are living life on the edge.
I promise you that when you get older, the memories will be a whole lot more pleasant than those of broken hearts and failed relationships.
Can you tell that there's some self therapy going on here!
She'll fall right into your lap when you least expect it!
Racing! There's some therapy for ya'!
I've crewed 100 foot boats, hold a divers card, and a commecial pilots license. Oh! And love the SCCA!
Put the woman in the back seat and live life!
Off the soap box now. Good luck!
OLD FART OUT!

I think you'll know when you meet the right girl, its when your to nervous to talk to her and she's to nervous to talk to you. Then basically break the ice by giving her a nice big WEDGY!!!!!! LOL.... actually if you act yourself then you'll find the right someone, I always act myself and I get enough girls to go out with so that Im broke ........ btw chicks dig fieros, they look expensive and they ger other girls to look into the car while the girl you want is looking at them (gotten yelled at for looking back though).... just remember be yourself and flirt ALOT and the chicks will dig ya.... also I dont have much experience either, I've only had like 3 really close GFs for more than a month or 2, but I usually ripped up at school dances and what not, Im only 18 too

Oh my!!! Formula, you had me laughing so hard I had tears in my eyes. Give her a WEDGY to break the ice...LOL. That's too much. Hey, maybe that's what I'm doing wrong, I've never given a lady a wedgy. If she's wearing a thong, you probably don't have to do that, she already gave herself one...hahaha, I kill myself. College is where to get the women. Even when I went back and got my master's degree years later when I was married, coeds flirted with me all the time. Hey, maybe I should go back for my PhD.

just a side note.. I'm 20, not 18..

(high school is 5 years in ontario, and I took a year off to work and get some money.. which was supposed to be for a fiero, but I ended up spending it on tuition.......)

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com

Heres my experience on the subject of AOL.

First, i am like you in a way. Nice guy, shy, non talker, unless i know you and i can make you laugh. Im anti smoker and anti drinking. Im on aol, plus free juno. But i have had about 4 years of experience of Chicago chat on aol, chatroom. Ive done all the hacking crap on aol, if you see the scrolling in the room.

The chicagochatroom is different then rest of aol. I think it is the busiest room, with the same people that come in all the time. keyword chicago chat, and the heading should by chicagochat on top of the menu, if anyone wants to get in.

I made a rule long time ago, its hard sometimes, but try not to get involved with any females on aol, or online. Few things you want to point out to yourself is: Why are they on aol, and or online? Is there something wrong with them, mentally or physhically. Some may have been pregnant by another guy, and are looking for someone, some may not be physically appealing. Some are excessivly overweight, im into exercising. and this is a common thing with females is when they are depressed they find food as a way to escape. Another hidden factor that may lead to their mental personality. Some females are psychos, obsessive, etc.. They may have had a bad relationship and they are looking for someone on the rebound.

No one should ask you to buy anything for them, so they can like you. Such as the cigerattes. First of, someone should be acting like your best friend and wouldn't ask anything from you. Also when they said stuff about giving you a blowjob, still wondering what that means. Its a clue to what they do or use to do. Ya it might excite you, but its just bad news. Dont trust anyone online, dont give anyone your number or last name. You have no idea if its a guy under that screenname. Its easy to do. You dont know if its a psycho thats going to give your number to someone else or mess up your life.

When they just met you, and they said they need to go home. Probably was an excuse to leave. You might be this fun guy on online, but i dont like you in person. Their loss. Or they really dont care, that your spending time in meeting them. They might go meet some other guy or go to a party. Sometimes its an age thing, but most women are like that until they are older then 30. A lot of them are bitches. I can tell you a handful from my chatroom.

Heres what you wanna do. Try to find someone outside of the computer. Ya, it might be hard. But you wont find yourself in a mess or be hurting. If a girl likes you, you know its going to last then chatting with some person on the puter. Shes meeting you right when she talks to you. You dont have to ask" so what do you look like, 5'4 300lbs. Its a lot better and safer. Make friends and let it go on from there. Ya, some internet relationships do work. But your better off meeting someone in real life, and forget people on the internet, unless your bashing them, then thats another story.
:eek

I only started talking to allie because a friend of mine in New Zealand introduced us. I thought it was cool that a girl from my town, met one of my friends that lives on the other side of the planet.. I never had any intention of being anything more than friends.. I do talk to several girls online, including a very good friend from Minnesota who I'd love to go out with, if she lived here... but she lives 12+ hours away, and in another country.. so it wouldn't work.. which is why we're just close friends.

I don't go into chat rooms anymore, I don't try to meet girls online.. I just talk with people on icq. of all the girls on my ICQ list, there's only one I've never spoken to in person.. (cause she lives too far away)

anyway, on the way out to a friends house this afternoon (she lives way out in the country) I saw 3 police cars and an ambulance turn off the highway and go racing down her sideroad at about 100mph.. not many people live down that road, so I got worried about her... so I stomped on the gas and followed the cops.. I realize I was going slightly over the limit, but the road was almost empty, I was worried about a friend, and I figured the police had more important things to deal with than some kid going 75mph in a 55 zone... it turned out to be a really bad accident, less than a mile from Jill's house... after driving by, I decided to take a different way home..... it made me realize that there are far worse things that could be happening in my life than some b*tchy teenage girl being mad at me... and you guys are right.. my college had a weekend orientation in june, and I met a lot of people there.. (OMG, people always said there were good looking girls at college... but I HAD NO IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!! also, the girls outnumber the guys 2:1 at this college for some reason.. just not in the program I'm taking... ) and I met some girls there (none that are single though.. *sigh* who thought I was nice, and fun to talk to, and not unattractive... cool. hehehehe)

anyway, thanks for all the kind words everyone...

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com

In my younger days before I got so many hangups about women, it was my experience if you became good friends with women (married, single, gay, or whatever) and they think you're a cool guy, they will try to fix you up with someone nice too. Some of my best dates were with friends of my female buddies.

Fierospeeder, you had lots of good advice in your last post, but I cringed everytime you stereotyped women. Everything you said about some women also applies to some guys too, please keep that in mind. Men have their own problems and behaviors that lots of women don't care for also. Let's keep an open mind.

ill try to bash both sexes next time. If anyone wants i can get into detail about that subject also.

You didn't do ANYTHING wrong Steve. Just sounds like you were dealing with CHILDREN. You sound very mature for your age and it's rare to find someone like you these days with your clean living, honesty and open heartness DON'T EVER CHANGE! There are still WOMEN left out there that will appreciate and love you for who you are. "Little girls" are a dime a dozen!

"....or maybe some insight into how teenage girls minds work"

"teenage girls" and "minds"...there's three words that don't often collide in the same sentence....

(jus' kiddin' y'all, it was just TOO funny to let pass without comment)

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Stimp- excellent line; "a steaming pile of drama" I love it!
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Motorhead- killer analogy about the fault code! Hahahahahaaaa!

This is probably the best thread goin on the forum right now.....

Send flames right to my email if ya like

-Taiji

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 07-29-2000).]

A couple of my friends and I use to frequent the chat rooms for the Jacksonville area, and after a while we even went to a few parties. I had to stop going to those parties because there were teenagers looking for liquor, etc. and I wanted no part of that. I guess the moral of the story is that on line you can meet good people in a good forum, i.e. present company, or you will run across the opposite.

I will tell you one thing, teenage girls are crazy....

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Dillon - Titusville, FL
Black '87 SE V6
"Matched Perfect and Staggered Special"