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machine work by DaRkLoRD
Started on: 02-04-2000 07:03 PM
Replies: 38
Last post by: DaRkLoRD on 02-10-2000 08:19 PM
DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-04-2000 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
I'm looking to get some machining work done, anyone who works at a machine shop, can you help?

I need a block of alunimum drilled and tapped (I'll be using brass pipe fittings with it)

dimensions are 1.75" x 1.75" x 3/4"

I can buy one ready made for about $35, so I'm looking for one cheaper than this.

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Report this Post02-04-2000 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86SEClick Here to Email 86SESend a Private Message to 86SEDirect Link to This Post
My dad is a machienist (how ever you spell it). We got a metal lathe, mill, bandsaw and metal cutting circular saw. I think we can help you out. How big do you want the holes (thread size, width)??
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-04-2000 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Let me check at the hardware store, see what size fittings I can get for the other parts. then I'll let you know

thanks!!

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Phaeton
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Report this Post02-05-2000 05:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhaetonSend a Private Message to PhaetonDirect Link to This Post
Hmmmm...pocket size chunk of aluminum...drilled and tapped for small pipe fittings. I certainly hope no one is thinking about abusing dialkyldithiophosphate. Look what happened to Formula!
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Formula
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Report this Post02-05-2000 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaDirect Link to This Post
dialkyldithiophosphate

who has dialkyldithiophosphate.

I personally prefer to drink it out of the bottle.

It keeps me running smooth

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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-05-2000 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
lol..

it's for a project I'm working on, to liquid cool a computer..

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Phaeton
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Report this Post02-05-2000 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhaetonSend a Private Message to PhaetonDirect Link to This Post
My computer tech buddy is here and asked about a Peltzer heat pump to cool an overclocked cpu. Edmund Scientific has them. Also the capacitors that feed the cpu will generally blow before the cpu.
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-05-2000 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
I'm planning to use peltiers for the stage 2 cooling setup. Stage 1 is just coolant (distilled water and antifreeze) circulating through a block of metal and then through a radiator.
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TOM
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Report this Post02-05-2000 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
Why didnt you say so. The company I work at developed the actor climate control system. It is a suit and pump/heat exchanger for actors under costumes. Same principal applies
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-05-2000 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Tom, sounds cool! (no pun intended.. heh)

The stage 2 setup involves 2 coolant loops. One goes through the transfer block which is attached to the processor, and then through a larger transfer block which has 4 peltiers connected in parallel attached to it, with the cold side down. On top of this is an identical transfer block, which has coolant circulating through this and then through a radiator. The peltiers cool the processor loop, and heat the radiator loop. The radiator then cools the liquid in that loop.

I hope that makes sense.. I have some diagrams, but they're not very clear.. I can't seem to draw very well.

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86SE
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Report this Post02-05-2000 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86SEClick Here to Email 86SESend a Private Message to 86SEDirect Link to This Post
DARKLORD, do u have all the measurements for the block?? And where you want me to mill the holes?? and what size to make the holes??

Got a diagram or pic how you want it to look like??

I think I can to it for $5 at the most.

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Report this Post02-05-2000 11:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
I am not too up on computers. What is "overclocking" and why does it run hot enough to need liquid cooling?
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-06-2000 12:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post

dimensions are 1.3/4" x 1.3/4", 1" high. The above photo should explain how it works. The fittings I'm using are brass, and the threaded ends are 5/8". I don't know much about fittings, so if there's any more info you need, I'll have to go back to the hardware store and ask..

The block needs to have 2 holes drilled in to one edge, threaded for a 5/8" fitting. A 3rd hole needs to be drilled partway in from the adjacent side, to connect the 2 main holes. This needs to be plugged somehow, probably with a bolt that is sawed off and soldered in place. If you have another suggestion for this, let me know. At least one face of the block needs to be as smooth as possible, so it makes good contact with the processor.

Tom, I'm sure someone else here can explain it in detail, but overclocking a CPU basically means pumping more electricity through it (as well as increasing the multiplier but I can't easily explain that!) which makes it go faster, but also makes it run much hotter.. hot enough to fry it, unless you add more fans or something. Liquid has a larger capacity for heat transfer than air, and if you cool the liquid, it can take even more heat away from the chip.

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TOM
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Report this Post02-06-2000 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
So can I just plug it into a 220 socket?
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-06-2000 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Tom.. no!

Increasing the voltage is usually only 1 or 2 volts higher than the rated voltage.. Overclocking can completely fry a system if not done properly. As soon as I can get my hands on a digital camera for a couple days, I'll be taking some photos of my setup so far and make a web page about the project.
The page will include links to other liquid cooling sites, as well as overclocking info.

86SE: I'm going to get some smaller brass fittings for the transfer block tomorrow, probably 3/8" threads. The 5/8" ones I have now are perfect for the radiator, but the tubing I'm going to use is 3/8". (fitting is 5/8" thread, 3/8" other end)

[This message has been edited by DaRkLoRD (edited 02-06-2000).]

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86SE
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Report this Post02-06-2000 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86SEClick Here to Email 86SESend a Private Message to 86SEDirect Link to This Post
So the water inlet and outlet are going to be 3/8" threads or 5/8" threads. How many threads per inch are the bolts that screw into it??
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Cooter
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Report this Post02-06-2000 05:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
What kind of pump are you going to use to circulate the coolant through the pipes? I have a friend who tried a similiar project because his computer for making banners was located in the shop's work area. In the summer it gets well over 100 degrees, so he built a small radiator and cut a square hole in the bottom of his computer case. Then mounted a fan on top of the radiator to pull air up into the case. The radiator was hooked to one of those 12v powered coolers by some kind of pump and rubber hoses. He would fill the cooler with ice and water in the morning and plug the cooler in. The ice would last almost all day except when the temp was really high. It must have worked because his computer is still going after 3 years in shop. He had to put a restriction in the coolant lines because the pump he used pumped the water too fast for some reason. Good luck!
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-06-2000 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
3/8" for the inlet and outlet.

I need to check the threads, as one has 6 threads and the other has 8.. (supposedly identical fittings) and I haven't even looked for a bolt yet. I'll let you know what I find out at the hardware store on Monday.

Cooter, I'm not sure what kind of pump I'll use. I was thinking of a garden pump (for a small fountain) but I was told it couldn't handle antifreeze.. too thick. A windshield washer fluid pump is probably expensive, but would work.. any suggestions?

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Report this Post02-06-2000 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
He used some kind of pump for a fish tank. I guess one for all that decorative water fall stuff that people with too much time on their hands make. Check the pet shop.
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-06-2000 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
I'll look into it.. thanks.. gotta make sure it won't clog up when antifreeze is used though, or break with the temperatures the coolant will be at.. chip runs pretty hot, but with the stage 2 cooler, I'm hoping to get it below freezing.
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batboy
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Report this Post02-06-2000 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batboyClick Here to Email batboySend a Private Message to batboyDirect Link to This Post
I'm not too sure what DaRKLord meant by pumping an extra 1-2 volt into the CPU to overclock it??? Sometimes you might have to bump up the core voltage 0.1 or 0.2 volts to make it run stable, but as near as I can understand overclocking, it's done by either increasing the chip multiplier or increasing the bus speed. Not all chips can be overclocked and you have to have the right motherboard. Regardless of how the overclocking is done, it does increase the temperature. Too much heat can eventually kill the CPU, that's why cooling is important.
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-06-2000 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Heh.. I don't know much about overclocking..
What batboy said is true, tho I have heard of people bumping up the voltage by more than 1v before. as for the clock multiplier and bus speed.. I don't understand those well enough to explain, except that it's a little switch you gotta flip...
(except the Athlons, where you gotta desolder some resistors and move them.. tricky work)
I overclocked my P166 to 200MHz, but I just flipped 2 jumpers on the motherboard and it didn't require any extra cooling..

I'm mostly doing this for fun.. I'm not really into overclocking, but there are people who can get amazing speeds out of their chips.. heard of one guy who said he got his K6-2 300 running at 700MHz with a liquid nitrogen cooling system.. that's a bit extreme for me.. I just want to have a liquid cooled computer.

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Report this Post02-06-2000 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
They are standard pipe threads. Either 1/8 or 1/4 N.I.P. And a pipe plug for the other hole drilled for the crossover.
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Report this Post02-06-2000 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post

TOM

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Hey Darklord. If no one else can get it done let me know. It will take me 10 minutes to do and I can get you a line on the pumps we use for the cool suits.
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-07-2000 12:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Tom.. you lost me already.

I never was very good with american measurements, (inch. quarter inch.. half inch.. those I get. it's when you start getting into 8ths, 16ths, 32nds, etc that I get confused. and don't even get me started on furlongs and fathoms and chains.. lol..)
and I've never done any machine work before.

I just know that I need a block of metal with one face totally flat (so it makes good contact) and a C-shaped channel cut into it, with threads so I can screw in 3/8" brass fittings. The design indicated on the photo above is the best way I can think of to do this. I know something like that will be required when I get the stage 2 transfer blocks (2 of them) as they'll require a lot more surface area inside, which means more channels.

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Report this Post02-07-2000 06:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
1/8"=0.125"
1/16"=0.062"
1/32"=0.031"
1/64"=0.015"
1"=2.54cm/25.4mm
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TOM
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Report this Post02-07-2000 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
Right monkey till you talk about PIPE threads.
Darklord should I just make one and send it to you?
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-07-2000 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Tom, how much $$?
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TOM
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Report this Post02-07-2000 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
For what you have done for me. How does free sound. Gratis n/c
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-08-2000 12:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Tom, that's my favorite price. hehe..

Does that include the metal as well as labor?

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Report this Post02-08-2000 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierospeederClick Here to visit fierospeeder's HomePageClick Here to Email fierospeederSend a Private Message to fierospeederDirect Link to This Post
this is kewl, hot rodding a computer oh my.
Is it worth going into this much hassel? I know bus speed is around 100mhz if i have that right, because of the new boards. I built my own computer, so its been a while. I spend money on my cars so my computer hobby gets away from me.
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-08-2000 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
I'm mostly doing this for fun, if I can't easily overclock the system I put this in.. oh well.

I just think it would be awesome to have a liquid cooled computer.. even if it wasn't overclocked to 3x the rated speed, it'd still be fun to have!

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Report this Post02-08-2000 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
That price includes the whole package. aluminum, machine work and shipping. Do we have a deal?
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-08-2000 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Hmm.. lemme think about this...SURE! Thanks!

That'd be awesome.. email me if there's any more info you need about the work. I got the new 3/8" brass fittings today. After I get the transfer block and pump.. I'll be able to start putting this all together.. fun stuff. now all I need is a digital camera to document the whole thing..

Before I get too sidetracked.. Tom rocks!
I gotta hurry up and get a Fiero so I can buy a decklid scoop and other stuff from you.

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Report this Post02-09-2000 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BigBoyToysClick Here to Email BigBoyToysSend a Private Message to BigBoyToysDirect Link to This Post
Guys,
Before you get to far with this idea have you thought about condensation and where the moisture may end up. Also the leading problem with connections and connetors is corrosion that typically starts with contaminants often left behind as residue. Even though the condensation may not carry contaminants it will get in where they lie and act as a catylist and a path for them to move if not a path for current to travel. If you truelly want to lower the operating temp of your system think about lowering the ambient (air) temp and reducing the humidity level.
For example air conditioners remove moisture from a room by having the condensor located out side of the room. If you built a small insulated room (large enough for your CPU and room to move) around a small window AC unit you could experiment with lower ambient temperatures to see if the performance gain is worth the effort. Note that the colder you go the AC may not be able to control the moisture and you may need to experiment with a de-humidifier and air circulation within the room. The smaller the room the less the AC should also have to work. Large computer centers (even with water cooled systems) must use raised floor environments to control airflow, temperature and humidity. Just my 2 cents. BBT
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-09-2000 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
The stage 1 cooler is intented to achieve around room temp on the chip.

The stage 2 is going to go much colder, and the radiator, heat exchanger, etc will be outside of the case. The processor card itself (celeron) will be completely sealed and insulated, as will all of the tubing, connectors, etc.

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Report this Post02-10-2000 12:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TOMClick Here to Email TOMSend a Private Message to TOMDirect Link to This Post
Besides the liquid-cooled thing sounds better than "Hey I have an air conditioner in my window"
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Report this Post02-10-2000 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreDirect Link to This Post
Liquid cooling systems and Peltier Devices used in CPU systems MUST NOT be allowed to cause condensates in the system. The condensates, mostly water, will cause corosion of both the CPU socket and surrounding exposed metal.
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DaRkLoRD
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Report this Post02-10-2000 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaRkLoRDClick Here to Email DaRkLoRDSend a Private Message to DaRkLoRDDirect Link to This Post
Ogre, agreed.

Until I have this system completely tested, it's not going into a good system. When it is, everything will be sealed tight so no condensation will come into contact with any of the circuitry.

Condensation won't be an issue until the stage 2, as the stage 1 is just water cooling and won't go below room temperature.

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