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Other small cars w/big engines!! by jhogans
Started on: 01-30-2000 02:36 PM
Replies: 29
Last post by: Patrick on 02-03-2000 05:47 PM
jhogans
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Report this Post01-30-2000 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jhogansClick Here to Email jhogansSend a Private Message to jhogansDirect Link to This Post
I happen to be surfing the web and came across other small cars w/big engine transplants.

Monster Miata - 400HP/V8 YIKES!!!!!!
0-60 4.2s http://www.monstermotorsports.com/

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Monkeyman
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Report this Post01-30-2000 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
It's not a modified car, but the new Lotus Elise (which happens to be smaller than our Fieros!) has a 4 banger that puts out 150hp in stock form!
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four50four
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Report this Post01-30-2000 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for four50fourClick Here to visit four50four's HomePageSend a Private Message to four50fourDirect Link to This Post
the new honda s2000 has 240 hp out of a 2.0L engine and 11:1 compression
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Eric
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Report this Post01-30-2000 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EricClick Here to Email EricSend a Private Message to EricDirect Link to This Post
I'd like to build a 427 Cobra replica. The kit I'm looking at is made by Factory Five and uses a donor 5.0 for the engine and rear end and a few other parts. According to them, it outperforms an original 427 because of the weight savings (tips the scales at 2,000lbs). From the looks of it, the kit appears to be a real 427 from the outside. For 15-20k you can't beat it. Think of all the heads it would turn. Anyway, if there are any 5.0 guys out there in Fiero World, I would like to get some advice on engine buildups to generate around 400-450hp (right now I know very little about 5.0s). Do Mustangs count as little cars with big engines? I don't want to venture too far off the thread topic.
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Spyder
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Report this Post01-30-2000 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpyderSend a Private Message to SpyderDirect Link to This Post

Iím in love with the Lotus Elise, It is not for sale in the US. Thatís a shame I really wanted to buy one.
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Monkeyman
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Report this Post01-30-2000 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
I'd love to buy one too but I just don't have the 50 grand it would take. Check out this survey. A company is trying to import it. I'd sure love to have one sitting next to my Fieros. WaaHoo! http://216.132.194.194/survey/survey1.cfm
Also check this one out: http://www.dnai.com/~sands/cars/elise/picts/elisepic.html
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Spyder
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Report this Post01-30-2000 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpyderSend a Private Message to SpyderDirect Link to This Post
Dammit, Now I'm going to have to find 50 grand!!!
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cobra427
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Report this Post01-31-2000 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cobra427Click Here to Email cobra427Send a Private Message to cobra427Direct Link to This Post
I am in a constant state of longing.Where I live, my landlord is a retired lawyer and an avid car nut. Let me give you a list of the druel cars. Ready?
1-Ferrarie 308
2-Lotus Espirit (race model)
3-Lotus Elise (race model)
4-Auto Craft Cobra w/sc 5.0
5-BMW M3
6-Honda s2000
7-New 2000 Audi sports sedan
8-Jeep Charikee
How would you like to live with that every day.

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cobra427
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Report this Post01-31-2000 12:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cobra427Click Here to Email cobra427Send a Private Message to cobra427Direct Link to This Post
Eric,
Factory Five is about 50miles from where I live. I have been to there place a couple of times to check out their cobras.They are a good bang for the buck.The framework is done
pretty much like the original cobras. The bodies are much better then when they first started out(better fit,doors ,trunk,hood)All aluminum subframe as opposed to fiberglass on some of the kits. With them you can build mild to wild.Basic 5 liter to the aluminum 427 hypo. A basic turnkey will run $27,000.00. Not a bad investment in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by cobra427 (edited 01-31-2000).]

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Phil
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Report this Post01-31-2000 08:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilClick Here to Email PhilSend a Private Message to PhilDirect Link to This Post
Way back when a friend of mine had a chance to drive both a 289 and a 427 Cobra (not replicas) on a road course. He said that the 427 was just about undrivable and the 289s were much better. Can there be such a thing as TOO MUCH?
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fierosound
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Report this Post01-31-2000 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
My previous car (prior to the 87 GT) was a also a "GM orphan" (built 1975-80), a 1979 Chevy Monza Spyder - factory V8 4-speed. We replaced the original 305 smog motor with a 365HP 350. It already had the WS6 suspension, but I tweaked it with poly bushings etc. It handled great and moved out!! I smoked alot of Camaros, Mustangs etc with that one.

I love the Fiero more... just gotta get some more horsepower...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-31-2000).]

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william_thorniii
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Report this Post01-31-2000 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for william_thorniiiClick Here to Email william_thorniiiSend a Private Message to william_thorniiiDirect Link to This Post
What? No mention of the car that started it all... Can anyone say Sunbeam?

William T. Thorn, III

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-31-2000 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post

As in Tiger ??!!!
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olympic
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Report this Post01-31-2000 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olympicClick Here to Email olympicSend a Private Message to olympicDirect Link to This Post
Check out "R" MotorSports Ltd. at http://www.divaroadster.com I'd love to put a 330 hp all aluminum LS-1 with a 6 speed in that baby. Would probably weigh less than 2000 lbs too.
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Monkeyman
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Report this Post01-31-2000 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
Where do I start?
Phil--The 427SCs were really meant to be straight line cars (who could beat them at that!?!). The 289FIAs were meant to be the road racers.

fierosound--If that Monza was purple, you had my car! I left the 305 in mine but "enhanced" it considerably!

William--I guess we're not the only ones who enjoy other "unique" automobiles, huh?

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-31-2000 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post

M-man, fierosound, (and anybody else who cares to comment), a few months ago I brought up the subject of V8 Monzas and my interest in dropping the 350 and 4-speed from my rusted out '78 Z28 into one. You guys have probably never seen this thread. Maybe you could check it out and pass along some feedback on the idea.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/000184.html

I'm still interested in doing this in the spring. Should I bother?

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jhogans
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Report this Post01-31-2000 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jhogansClick Here to Email jhogansSend a Private Message to jhogansDirect Link to This Post
That diva roadster is nice.

Check out this V8 RX-7. WOW!!!!!!! http://www2.tscnet.com/~adesso/frames.htm

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william_thorniii
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Report this Post01-31-2000 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for william_thorniiiClick Here to Email william_thorniiiSend a Private Message to william_thorniiiDirect Link to This Post
Patrick,

Of course I was talking about the Tiger.

Everyone else,

OOPS! I almost forgot good 'ol TVR.

For those of you interested in that Diva... check out the original... Lotus/Catterham 7. Check out this link to information on the Catterhams current cars. http://www.caterham.co.uk/ For those of you wondering... no this isn't even the lightest one. The Superlight R is around 470kg (1036.2#) curbside weight and is still street legal. Be sure to check out the 21 while you are there!

William T. Thorn, III

[This message has been edited by william_thorniii (edited 01-31-2000).]

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fierosound
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Report this Post01-31-2000 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
It's worth doing if you can find a sound Monza body. The front subframe had a tendency to "fold in" from the weight of the engine over time. I wound up with the oil pan eventually sitting on the crossmember.

Changing spark plugs with stock exhaust had only one minor problem. Power steering box interfered with one front plug. I had to undo bottom motor mount, and jack up engine about 1 inch to do so. Only took about 15 minutes.

Never had any problems with stock rear axle - but then, I didn't rev to 5000RPM and pop the clutch either!! I think the rear axles were different in the V8 models than in the 4 or 6 cylinder cars.

The best best is to get a factory V8 Monza with a blown engine/trans - then you'll have all the correct powertrain parts for a hi-po 350 swap.

To swap a V8 into a non-V8 Monza, you will need to get these parts from a Monza:
- V8 motor mounts
- V8 oil pan - they're specific to this frame
- pulleys - again specific to Monza
- appropriate brackets - alt, pwr steering pump etc.
- "shorty" water pump
- radiator from V8 Monza, or get one made
- front coil springs
- low profile air cleaner
- exhaust manifolds - not sure if headers are still available

The biggest headache will be getting parts discontinued by GM (sound familiar?).

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jhogans
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Report this Post01-31-2000 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jhogansClick Here to Email jhogansSend a Private Message to jhogansDirect Link to This Post
DAMN!!!!! that Lotus Elise is too tight. they need to come out with a body kit for the Fiero based on that car.
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william_thorniii
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Report this Post01-31-2000 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for william_thorniiiClick Here to Email william_thorniiiSend a Private Message to william_thorniiiDirect Link to This Post
jhogans,

One problem... the Elise is only about 60% the size of the Fiero. For example and Elise parked next to a Fiero would only come up to the middle of our windows. To anyone that is overly anal, my comparison could be a little off. Since Fiero's are virtually non-existand in France (where I saw several Elise's)... I do not have an exact feel for their relative sizes. Perhaps Cliff or another one of our european list members could shed some light on this subject.

For those of you with Monza's... I always wanted one of those. Since my addiction with Fieros has commenced, I have not had any time or $ for affairs with other vehicles...

William T. Thorn, III

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Patrick
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Report this Post02-01-2000 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post

fierosound, you bring up some good points. I've been keeping my eyes open for a Monza that originally would have come from the factory with a V8 and a manual transmission. I talked to a fella last week who has one, but with no power train and with a different rear end that has the five bolt hubs. It sounded promising until I read your response and realized that if there was no engine in the car at all, that there would be a lot of extra parts to track down. Maybe I should just keep looking. Thanks for your feedback.
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Standard
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Report this Post02-01-2000 12:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for StandardClick Here to visit Standard's HomePageClick Here to Email StandardSend a Private Message to StandardDirect Link to This Post
Wow, I knew the Elise was small.. but not that small! I'm used to parking my Fiero next to other cars and the roof ending halfway up their windsheild.. and then those moster suv's that can look down and see the stickers on my roof... (yes i have stickers on my roof.. not car related)
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Monkeyman
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Report this Post02-01-2000 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
WT III--YOu must be talking about me. The Elise (my next car after the '85 GT) is only 2" shorter than a Fiero (49.?" vs. 47.?").
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Raydar
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Report this Post02-01-2000 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Patrick, I used to have a 350 Monza. It was a 76. Came out of the box with a 262 V-8, and a Saginaw 4-speed. Got bored with it in pretty short order. Installed a 350/300 from a '70 Impala. Everything, and I mean everything, was a direct bolt-in. The 262 came with a 9" clutch. Fried in very short order, behind the 350. I changed to the flywheel and clutch from a 305 Monza. Again, a direct bolt-in. Never had any clutch trouble, after that. Used a "clone" of an L-82 cam, and a Carter 9500 AFB carb. Also tried a Thermo-Quad. It was a lot quicker, but it "outran" the fuel pump. (In retrospect, I believe the vent line from the vapor canister was blocked.) Installed Hooker headers. Seems like the part # for the headers was #2135. Hooker also offered a V-8 "engine swap" header, that would not fit a factory V-8. (I don't know what the difference was.)
If you use a pre-87 (I think) 350, you can use the 305 Monza flywheel. They are both "zero balanced".
I never had any trouble with the rearend, although I didn't go with really wide tires.
Would lay down incredibly long black marks, though.
The Monza is actually a fairly heavy car. Seems like it was something like 3200 lbs. Not really any lighter than a 3rd gen F-body.
But it was still a hell of a lot of fun.
Good luck!

Raydar

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-01-2000).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post02-02-2000 07:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the feedback Raydar. Yeah, I can imagine that a 262 V8 would be pretty boring! My plan is to just drop the entire engine/transmission package out of my Z28 into a Monza (with minor alterations to pulleys, etc). I would think that I won't even have to look at the flywheel, let alone change it. I'm also hoping that the 255/60/15 tires on the back of my Z28 will fit in the rear wheel wells of a Monza. Any opinions on that?
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Raydar
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Report this Post02-02-2000 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
255/60-15s? They're probably gonna be reeeal tight. Seems like I saw a picture of one with 235s. Pretty much filled up the wheelwells. Don't hold me to that, tho'.
Something else... Does your Camaro have a cable-operated clutch? The Monza has a cable clutch. The release arm is *pulled forward* when you press the pedal. It pivots on the right side, and the arm extends all the way across the pressure plate to the left side. Strange.
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Patrick
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Report this Post02-03-2000 02:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post

No, the Z28 doesn't have a cable operated clutch. I was aware that the Monza had one, but I have no idea what it looks like or how it works. I've read that there is sometimes a problem with the firewall flexing with this type of clutch arrangement. I guess it's one more of those little things to look into when doing a project of this type.
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Raydar
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Report this Post02-03-2000 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Yep, the firewall *can* flex. Saw it on a couple of different cars. Strangely enough, they were 3.8 V-6 cars. Never had any trouble with the V-8. I don't think there is room for the "push" linkage from the Z-28. You might consider using the hydraulic setup from the 3rd gen F-body. If you want to keep the cable setup, you'll have to swap bellhousings.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-03-2000).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post02-03-2000 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post

OH GAWD NO, NOT ANOTHER HYDRAULIC CLUTCH SETUP !!!!!
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