Just wanted to know if there has been any talk about an LS9 or LSA swap. I understand that both of these engines are VERY EXPENSIVE and may defeat the original V8 idea for Fieros. I mean stop me if im wrong but isn't the whole V8 Fiero idea about cheap V8 speed, hence using cheap FWD Northstars and 350 small blocks.
......Anyways, I cant help myself ,when I close my eyes, dreaming of an 88 GT red hardtop 6speed powered by a LS9 or LSA.
I remember seeing one member on here put an LS7 with an Edelbrock Supercharger in his Fiero, so theres no doubt it will fit.
Anyways, whats your take on this? In the future will this become with reach of most people?
IP: Logged
10:39 PM
PFF
System Bot
jb1 Member
Posts: 2146 From: Tullahoma, Tennessee Registered: May 2003
The LS9/LSA engines being swapped into a Fiero is no different than any other RWD LSx engine swap, other than the crate engine possibly being more expensive than the LS376 (which is currently the most common LS series swap to go with).
Originally posted by TheRealShadowX: Not at the track they don't.
On the track, any street car is slow.
The 3800 fan boys can come make stupid comments and ask stupid questions all they want, but it doesn't make their cars the fastest thing out there. Nobody cares how fast they think their cars are.
And nobody even commented on how fast an LS9 Fiero would even be, so it's just another useless comment to ask such patronizing questions. But darkhorizon can just sit there continuing to pretend to go fast, all he wants.
The 3800 fan boys can come make stupid comments and ask stupid questions all they want, but it doesn't make their cars the fastest thing out there. Nobody cares how fast they think their cars are.
And nobody even commented on how fast an LS9 Fiero would even be, so it's just another useless comment to ask such patronizing questions. But darkhorizon can just sit there continuing to pretend to go fast, all he wants.
Originally posted by Formula: I would go for a sc/turbo ls3 over an ls9.
An LS9 is basically an LS3 with some minor changes, and the blower.
There are many things I'd go for over an LS3 or an LS9, depending on what I wanted out of the car. If I wanted to drag race a Fiero, I'd look for a tube chassis drag car with a Fiero body, and throw a built 632 Pontiac in it, with 2 or 3 stages of nitrous, and have it running in the low 6 second range. For an AutoX or similar setup, where there's more turning involved, I'd put more money into brakes, suspension, and steering components than the engine, drop a couple hundred pounds off the car, and throw something with moderate power and a good torque curve, in the engine bay. Maybe an Ecotec or DOHC V6, or maybe a 3500.
There are way too many things one can do with a Fiero, and way too many options for engine swaps, to just say that I would only do one thing or the other. The 3800 vs. V8 BS is nothing more than BS. And it'll stay that way.
[url=http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/camaro_now/sucs_1130_supercharged_ls7_engine_build/viewall.html][/url] (if link dosent work, just cut and paste it into the search bar)
LS7 with LS9 Eatons Supercharger!!! GM wouldn't do it so someone else did........kinda like when guys put V8's and V6 Supercharged engines in the Fiero when GM didn't!
I think that if you had the Z06 with the Z07/CFZ package ( basically a ZR1 with a 7.0L) and then got the EXACT Eatons LS9/ZR1 Supercharger, this would be the ultimate Corvette......and it would be awesome cause it would be kinda like it was stock (well at least to me it kinda would be)
Can you imagine this in the back of a Fiero hahaahah
Id call it the LS8
I love GM engines!! and I love Fieros
[This message has been edited by HydroFiero (edited 04-23-2013).]
IP: Logged
10:26 PM
jaredmurray88 Member
Posts: 1153 From: wellersburg pa Registered: Mar 2011
Somebody has a death wish.... I called archie the same day a guy was in to get a blower on his ls swap and even archie said he had no idea why someone would want that much power! It would be fun as poop though but you may want to keep a change of pants handy haha.
IP: Logged
10:40 PM
Apr 24th, 2013
VF1Skullangel Member
Posts: 190 From: Southern California Registered: Jun 2008
Don Kraus: 10.519 @ 129.92mph (IMSA widebody kit / LS427 / 4T65EHD) No pretending with Krause's LS. Ray
Please post a video or it didn't happen. A lot of V8 guys claiming to run well into the 10's with zero evidence....
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
On the track, any street car is slow.
The 3800 fan boys can come make stupid comments and ask stupid questions all they want, but it doesn't make their cars the fastest thing out there. Nobody cares how fast they think their cars are.
And nobody even commented on how fast an LS9 Fiero would even be, so it's just another useless comment to ask such patronizing questions. But darkhorizon can just sit there continuing to pretend to go fast, all he wants.
And can you blame us?
When you've got a bunch of V8 guys claiming times that aren't true, it makes you guys no different than a Ricer honda claiming "Yeah I run 10's" and all he's got is an AEM Intake and flowmaster.
A lot of the times when I speak to V8 swapped guys I hear "Its got 500hp but its never been dynoed" "It runs 10's in the 1/4 but I've never taken it down the track".... I can respect darkhorizon. At least he's backed his s%%t up with legit evidence. How about Archie or anyone with a V8 Fiero post up a video running a 10 second pass?
quote
Originally posted by HydroFiero: ......Anyways, I cant help myself ,when I close my eyes, dreaming of an 88 GT red hardtop 6speed powered by a LS9 or LSA.
I remember seeing one member on here put an LS7 with an Edelbrock Supercharger in his Fiero, so theres no doubt it will fit.
Anyways, whats your take on this? In the future will this become with reach of most people?
Back in the day I used to always think about building a Diablo Replica using an LT5 Corvette engine. Even still today its kind of beyond my reach and many others who are far more experienced and skilled than me.
I think doing an LSA or LS9 Fiero is going to be very expensive and won't be within reach of most Fiero builders now and tomorrow.
Honestly I think the biggest reason why V8 Fiero's don't perform as greatly as the 3800's is the tranny's they use, you'd probably have to use a G50 Porsche Transaxle or a ZF out of a Pantera to mate it and put the power to the ground. They're both proven Transmissions that can handle that power well enough but they aren't cheap. Otherwise its possible using whatever trans like out of a G6 but you'll never get to play around with the performance. That's my take.
[This message has been edited by VF1Skullangel (edited 04-24-2013).]
IP: Logged
12:01 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
I was going to post a reply to your "shut me up" post, but you deleted it right away. Anyway, Don Kraus IS on the 1/4 mile list. That list requires proof. a posted time slip. I saw a video of it too.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 04-24-2013).]
Originally posted by VF1Skullangel: Honestly I think the biggest reason why V8 Fiero's don't perform as greatly as the 3800's is the tranny's they use, you'd probably have to use a G50 Porsche Transaxle or a ZF out of a Pantera to mate it and put the power to the ground. They're both proven Transmissions that can handle that power well enough but they aren't cheap. Otherwise its possible using whatever trans like out of a G6 but you'll never get to play around with the performance. That's my take.
It's all in the torque curve, gear ratios, and suspension. Those three things are what will determine 1/4 mile times. Fieros are not straight line performance cars, and most people don't set them up to be. Some people spend a lot of money to make them be.
But nobody in this thread was discussing 1/4 mile times. Nobody cares about 1/4 mile times. If you want to discuss 1/4 mile times, there's a thread for it. If someone makes outrageous claims about 1/4 mile times or HP, feel free to call them out. But this thread isn't it. The topic here is about putting an LS9 or an LSA engine in a Fiero. And the answer is it's very easy to do if you have the money to do it. Not everyone does an engine swap because they want to build a 1/4 mile weekend warrior.
IP: Logged
06:03 PM
rcp builders Member
Posts: 736 From: north port, Fl. Registered: Apr 2007
There are def. more v8's out there that could be running low 11's but they choose not to drag them. But there are dyno video's out there that clearly show there potential. Ray
IP: Logged
07:45 PM
PFF
System Bot
VF1Skullangel Member
Posts: 190 From: Southern California Registered: Jun 2008
I was going to post a reply to your "shut me up" post, but you deleted it right away. Anyway, Don Kraus IS on the 1/4 mile list. That list requires proof. a posted time slip. I saw a video of it too.
Please post up a video. Anyone can photoshop a time slip or a dynosheet.
There are def. more v8's out there that could be running low 11's but they choose not to drag them. But there are dyno video's out there that clearly show there potential. Ray
Its funny how on all those runs the video cuts off not showing any times... I'm still not convinced.
[This message has been edited by VF1Skullangel (edited 04-24-2013).]
IP: Logged
11:46 PM
VF1Skullangel Member
Posts: 190 From: Southern California Registered: Jun 2008
It's all in the torque curve, gear ratios, and suspension. Those three things are what will determine 1/4 mile times. Fieros are not straight line performance cars, and most people don't set them up to be. Some people spend a lot of money to make them be.
But nobody in this thread was discussing 1/4 mile times. Nobody cares about 1/4 mile times. If you want to discuss 1/4 mile times, there's a thread for it. If someone makes outrageous claims about 1/4 mile times or HP, feel free to call them out. But this thread isn't it. The topic here is about putting an LS9 or an LSA engine in a Fiero. And the answer is it's very easy to do if you have the money to do it. Not everyone does an engine swap because they want to build a 1/4 mile weekend warrior.
I was only stating brief facts. If you want to call us 3800 guys out then I'm gonna call out the BS often found in the V8 community. At least DH can back his s$%t up where as most V8 guys can't. But oh well carry on with the thread......
I've said what I had to say.
[This message has been edited by VF1Skullangel (edited 04-24-2013).]
IP: Logged
11:53 PM
Apr 25th, 2013
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
LS3...LS9...3800SC.....All this talk about which motor is faster and as usual the important factor is always left out. What trans is gonna be used to harness all that power to the ground. Most V-8 guys like to stay manual so that limits the use of the high HP V-8s if u wanna run them all out. Go the route Don did and use a beefed up 65E but u will still be limited to the amount of tourqe u can put thru it. Not to mention to copy his setup ur pockets cant be shallow. The LSX swap is a nice swap thar gives u HP but the cost will never make ot a popular swap.
There are def. more v8's out there that could be running low 11's but they choose not to drag them. But there are dyno video's out there that clearly show there potential. Ray
I will have to disagree...Just cause it can put down the HP on a dyno does not mean it can put down good numbers at the track. As I mentioned in my post above the trans limits the V-8 from doing so. Now if u put down 550 or so on the dyno then u might be able to soft launch and use the HP to cut a nice time if u are a good driver. But that is a lot of ifs and most V-8 cars r not making that type of HP.
IP: Logged
03:16 AM
HydroFiero Member
Posts: 21 From: Orillia, Ontario Canada Registered: Mar 2013
Originally posted by VF1Skullangel: I was only stating brief facts. If you want to call us 3800 guys out then I'm gonna call out the BS often found in the V8 community. At least DH can back his s$%t up where as most V8 guys can't. But oh well carry on with the thread......
I've said what I had to say.
I wasn't "calling us 3800 guys out." Nobody said a 3800 can't be fast. Just because it can be made fast too, doesn't mean a V8 can't also be made fast. Every time a "what about swapping in a [insert random model of V8 here] into a Fiero" thread gets posted, the 3800 fanboys (mostly darkhorizon) come out and make stupid and irrelevant comments.
Yeah, there are plenty of "slow" V8 swaps out there. And there are plenty of slow 3800 swaps too. What's your point? Just because a few 3800s are fast doesn't make them all fast. Pretty much any engine making over 200 hp is going to be plenty fast in a Fiero, for what most people want out of their cars. Which is to drive and/or show them, not beat them to crap at the drag strip or running illegal street races at 1 AM on Michigan highways.
Nobody cares how fast his car, or anyone else's, is.
If you want to talk facts, keep it to facts, and keep it on topic. The topic of this thread is putting an LSA or LS9 in a Fiero, not how you think a 3800 can make as much power, is cheaper, and faster.
Originally posted by MstangsBware: I will have to disagree...Just cause it can put down the HP on a dyno does not mean it can put down good numbers at the track. As I mentioned in my post above the trans limits the V-8 from doing so. Now if u put down 550 or so on the dyno then u might be able to soft launch and use the HP to cut a nice time if u are a good driver. But that is a lot of ifs and most V-8 cars r not making that type of HP.
The trans limits the V6 cars just as much. The people running low 10s or 9s with a 3800 also have lots of money tied up in beefing up the transmission. Number of cylinders doesn't matter.
If I wanted to run a 10 second 1/4 mile though, I'd just go down to the Chevy dealer and buy a new Z06 Carbon. They can run high 10s/low 11s depending on driver ability/weight, in totally stock trim, on street tires, and come with a warranty.
Or, I'd buy that drag car on eBay with the Fiero body, and set it up to run low-mid 6s range, if I had the money. But real race cars aren't cheap.
IP: Logged
10:12 AM
TXGOOD Member
Posts: 5410 From: Austin, Texas Registered: Feb 2006
I know that torque is a killer in the transmissions available for use in the Fiero but what is the difference in a 3800SC engine putting out 330Ft lbs of torque and an SBC putting out the same amount of torque?
IP: Logged
10:18 AM
rcp builders Member
Posts: 736 From: north port, Fl. Registered: Apr 2007
Just cause it can put down the HP on a dyno does not mean it can put down good numbers at the track. As I mentioned in my post above the trans limits the V-8 from doing so. Now if u put down 550 or so on the dyno then u might be able to soft launch and use the HP to cut a nice time if u are a good driver. But that is a lot of ifs and most V-8 cars r not making that type of HP.
Agreed! Ray
quote
Originally posted by TXGOOD:
I know that torque is a killer in the transmissions available for use in the Fiero but what is the difference in a 3800SC engine putting out 330Ft lbs of torque and an SBC putting out the same amount of torque?
When the torque comes on. Most v8's torque will come in hard and low in the RPM's Ray
IP: Logged
03:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
TXGOOD Member
Posts: 5410 From: Austin, Texas Registered: Feb 2006
If I wanted to run a 10 second 1/4 mile though, I'd just go down to the Chevy dealer and buy a new Z06 Carbon. They can run high 10s/low 11s depending on driver ability/weight, in totally stock trim, on street tires, and come with a warranty.
This is a hobby for me, I don't mind spending $10k on a unique car that runs good, but I don't think my wife would like if I spent $100k on a hobby car.
This is a hobby for me, I don't mind spending $10k on a unique car that runs good, but I don't think my wife would like if I spent $100k on a hobby car.
Why would a LSX swap cost you 100,000? Guys are already swapping used low mileage LS4 motors. I just picked one up for the wife with less than 500 miles for under 2500.
[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 04-25-2013).]
Why would a LSX swap cost you 100,000? Guys are already swapping used low mileage LS4 motors. I just picked one up for the wife with less than 500 miles for under 2500.
$100k for a Corvette Z06 Carbon. You probably can get them cheaper now since they released the C7 concept, but it's in the ballpark.
I do like the LS4, I can't wait to see how your wife's car turns out.
$100k for a Corvette Z06 Carbon. You probably can get them cheaper now since they released the C7 concept, but it's in the ballpark.
I do like the LS4, I can't wait to see how your wife's car turns out.
Oh got it, I may like using some of the corvette's parts but other wise I'm not a fan as they are far to common here on Long Island. As more guys start putting LS swaps in their Fiero's and working out the kinks and posting the info it should become more affordable . I'm enjoying seeing all the different variations on the LS4 swap going on now here on PFF, from a mostly affordable stock "drop in" to a F40 swap, My wife's car will fall some place in the middle.
Oh got it, I may like using some of the corvette's parts but other wise I'm not a fan as they are far to common here on Long Island. As more guys start putting LS swaps in their Fiero's and working out the kinks and posting the info it should become more affordable . I'm enjoying seeing all the different variations on the LS4 swap going on now here on PFF, from a mostly affordable stock "drop in" to a F40 swap, My wife's car will fall some place in the middle.
Agreed! I just swapped a 31k mile LS4 4t65ehd into my Lambo Diablo kit and it was very cheap. I got the LS4/4t65ehd for $650, Microsquirt cost $330, stand alone trans controller $380, axles $250, a few extras here and there another $400. Everything up and running for around $2000... I think the LS4 is going to continue to be a even more popular swap as more people do it....
It's fun and an excellent choice, but it takes a life style that can afford to play the game.
