quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: It sounds like you've made up your mind that insurance companies can give you anything they want for the replacement value of your car, and you can do nothing to find out what that value is beforehand, nor contest it successfully regardless what they give you after the fact. This simply isn't true no matter how many different ways you want to spin it.

Why would I want to SPIN anything? I've not made up my mind out of dreams or imagination. This is what I've found to be the case. I'm in Tennessee, you're in Canada. Your mileage may vary just as mine might. I also said I could fight in court but whatever award I might receive in a winning case would likely NOT include my legal fees. Therefore I doubt the benefit of litigation in these cases.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Your insurance company can tell you today, right now, how much they will give you for your car if you total it. Nothing... because you don't have collision coverage. If you do buy collision insurance, they not only would be able to tell you how much they'd give you for it if you totalled it tomorrow, but they must be able to tell you. They do this by using the industry standard for used car values in the Kelly Blue Book. It's that simple.

I wish it were. If that IS the simple truth, agents either don't know it, can't explain it, or are refusing to disclose it.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: If you want to ensure you get the fairest possible outcome under replacement value coverage, then get the car appraised independently as I've mentioned before. If you're unwilling to do that, then you cannot complain when an adjuster appraises your totalled car for less than you thought it was worth. The truth is, that a 25 year old Fiero maxes out around the $12K mark for a fully loaded, unmodified, perfect condition, low mileage car in the Blue Book. Values drop off exponentially for anything that doesn't match that description. Just look at all the examples of how little money people are spending to buy Fieros in good condition right here on PFF.

And as I've mentioned before, SEVERAL times, I have no problem with getting my car appraised. The question is, will insurance compainies accept and respect the findings of that apprasial, and pay accordingly. I'm also not contesting that perfect cars command higher prices than abused cars. What I am saying is that the prices of even the abused cars are not going down assuming that they are being maintained in their current condition. Of these lower valued older cars, not just Fieros, my argument is that they should be driven and enjoyed. They are not in a condition that demands that they be locked away. Take my 69 Mustang example. IF I had one that was all original and beautiful, I would need a VERY large income to feel comfortable in using it as a daily driver. So if my income was not that large and I wanted to drive my 69, maybe I'd get a rougher one that WOULD be more suitable for daily duties. This would still be a 69 Mustang with a market value that was not depreciating. With a car like this, mileage will matter very little.

I believe that is where we are with our Fieros. Not depreciating and mileage meaning little. For instance, I have a 23K mile car that I paid $250 for. I have a 62K car that I paid $4200 for. I have another that had under 100K and I paid $1200 for it. When it comes to less than perfect cars, condition is king. Mileage is just a talking point that you might get some distance with.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: That insurance companies can and do apply restrictions to driving a car with an "agreed value" is entirely their prerogative since they get to determine how much risk they want to accept on your behalf, for the money you are paying them. They also apply a whole gamut of restrictions on replacement value policies as well, such as not running a taxi service, not racing, etc. You must accept any risks that come along with driving your car that an insurance company either doesn't need to by law, or won't because it simply doesn't pay dividends to do so. It just doesn't make sense that it would be any other way.

I'm not looking for taxi or racing insurance. I never can understand why so frequently, simple subjects are debated through extremes. I also accept that insurance companies combine risk and cost. That is normal, fair, and acceptable. So why not give the owner the option of opting out of any or all of those restrictions in exchange for an additional fee? There is obviously middle ground there. Dirt cheap and restrictive insurance vs. expensive daily use "full coverage" insurance. People don't all fall into one extreme or the other. Cars don't all fall into one extreme or the other. I feel, as some others have indicated here, that there is an un-tapped market in the insurance industry for an honest and up front policy that protects what it proposes to protect.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: People don't all fall into one extreme or the other. Cars don't all fall into one extreme or the other.

Neither do car insurance policies. There are different rates depending on your age, maritial status, driving experience, area history, sex, type of car, number of drivers, age of car, miles per year, where it's parked, claim history, etc, etc. Then there are all the options you can choose regarding your own preferred level of coverage for collision, liability, and comprehensive damages, not to mention a host of different levels of deductibles that are yours for the choosing. All of these factors provide you a highly specific risk envelope, premium, and payout structure custom tailored to you. Hardly a choice between one extreme or the other.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I never can understand why so frequently, simple subjects are debated through extremes.

I sense this comment was directed at me, so I won't contribute any longer except to point out the following: It's a simple situation. Insurance companies don't offer a product that you want. Debating it here isn't going to change that, so I ask what sort of responses you were hoping for when you started this thread?

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: I sense this comment was directed at me, so I won't contribute any longer except to point out the following: It's a simple situation. Insurance companies don't offer a product that you want. Debating it here isn't going to change that, so I ask what sort of responses you were hoping for when you started this thread?

Not so much directed AT you as much as prompted by you. You're not the first or only, just the latest.

Nobody offered a quality 88 front bearing either until it was discussed here. Now Rodney supplies them. See how that works?

What was I looking for? Like minded people to say "yes, I want that too". "I agree that it seems unfair to not know what we are paying for." "I'm going to bring this up to my agent's office too!" "What can I do to help? Can we start a petition?"

Any of the above would have been nice. As things stand, it appears that I'm in the minority and most people like the insurance craps game. I guess it's more adventurous the way it is. Kinda like a Christmas surprise waiting to be opened! Who am I to try to spoil everyone's fun? Carry on.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 12-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: This proves one of my points and brings up a question to another. Here we have a guy who loves his car. He plainly states that this is something he wants to own and keep and will likely do so even in the event of a collision. To me, this is an enthusiast. I believe he should pay lower rates for his insurance because I believe he will be more careful with his car when he takes it out. To him, his car isn't just basic transportation and a means to get from A to B. He's not going to let maintenance issues go until something breaks. He's not going to stack boxes of Christmas decorations on the hood until he can put them up in the attic. His car isn't going to be a laundry hamper, loose change dish, or a trash bin. He's not the average commuter who doesn't care about their cars as long as they start and move. This mentality of care for this item being insured should translate into cost savings. The one thing I don't understand is if you have already accepted the "collector's" way of car ownership and insurance, why is it not fully insured? Have you asked what the cost difference per month would be for more complete coverage? I can't imagine it would be enough to dissuade you. Jonathan

First of all, it is "fully insured". Just because I have an agreed value less than what someone else may think its worth, does not mean it is not fully insured.

Second, I do get a huge break on insurance since it would cost me 4 times what it does now if I chose to have regular insurance on it.

Third, I have piled boxes on it, and treated it in ways that some may not approve of, but I also don't care what anyone else thinks of how I treat my stuff. I don't own it as an investment. I wanted a wing car since I first saw one as a kid over 30 years ago.

Fourth, I have not "accepted the collectors way of ownership". I simply choose to drive much safer, economical, reliable and easier to drive vehicles on a daily basis. I am not a rich investor who has money to burn. I just built a car, years ago, I wanted, that others have made valuable in their minds. If I never sell it, it is worthless to them. I just drove it last week for about an hour with my kids, driving around aimlessly with the top down, looking at Christmas light and displays. Right now, I could care less what anyone else thinks my car is worth. Right now, for times like last week, it is priceless. I drove it knowing full well, I had full coverage for anything I may cause and really didn't worry about what I would get if it was wrecked or went up in smoke.

I think you are missing the point of insurance. Insurance is not a "free money tree" to collect every possible dollar out of a claim when something goes wrong. Insurance is something everyone contributes to so that those who have bad days are not put out on the street because they could not afford the costs of accidents. My car is fully insured for an amount I will be fine with in the event it is totaled by anything I do. If someone else totals it, I will deal with their insurance company for whatever the current market value is. I have owned this car for almost 18 years now. I have watched it be "worth" $900 to $8,000 to $82,000 and now I am guessing I would have a tough time getting $30k for it. The last thing I want to do is have to worry about getting into a pissing match about how much the latest stereo or gizmo I put into it is worth. I just insure my car for what it is, and that's it.

I could even go so far as to say, that if you are that worried about getting back every dollar you spend on any car, that would make you an investor, and certainly not an enthusiast. Just because I happened to like a certain car, built it from a wreck, and then it became valuable over the time frame I owned it, does not make me any more of an enthusiast than someone who drives a Fiero.

The problem comes when people think their cars are worth more than anyone else will pay for them.

I hesitated to even enter this discussion since this can be a touchy topic, but I have to say everyone has really contributed and I learned a few things.

Happy New Year. 2013??? Where did the last few years go?

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: First of all, it is "fully insured". Just because I have an agreed value less than what someone else may think its worth, does not mean it is not fully insured. Second, I do get a huge break on insurance since it would cost me 4 times what it does now if I chose to have regular insurance on it. Third, I have piled boxes on it, and treated it in ways that some may not approve of, but I also don't care what anyone else thinks of how I treat my stuff. I don't own it as an investment. I wanted a wing car since I first saw one as a kid over 30 years ago. Fourth, I have not "accepted the collectors way of ownership". I simply choose to drive much safer, economical, reliable and easier to drive vehicles on a daily basis. I am not a rich investor who has money to burn. I just built a car, years ago, I wanted, that others have made valuable in their minds. If I never sell it, it is worthless to them. I just drove it last week for about an hour with my kids, driving around aimlessly with the top down, looking at Christmas light and displays. Right now, I could care less what anyone else thinks my car is worth. Right now, for times like last week, it is priceless. I drove it knowing full well, I had full coverage for anything I may cause and really didn't worry about what I would get if it was wrecked or went up in smoke. I think you are missing the point of insurance. Insurance is not a "free money tree" to collect every possible dollar out of a claim when something goes wrong. Insurance is something everyone contributes to so that those who have bad days are not put out on the street because they could not afford the costs of accidents. My car is fully insured for an amount I will be fine with in the event it is totaled by anything I do. If someone else totals it, I will deal with their insurance company for whatever the current market value is. I have owned this car for almost 18 years now. I have watched it be "worth" $900 to $8,000 to $82,000 and now I am guessing I would have a tough time getting $30k for it. The last thing I want to do is have to worry about getting into a pissing match about how much the latest stereo or gizmo I put into it is worth. I just insure my car for what it is, and that's it. I could even go so far as to say, that if you are that worried about getting back every dollar you spend on any car, that would make you an investor, and certainly not an enthusiast. Just because I happened to like a certain car, built it from a wreck, and then it became valuable over the time frame I owned it, does not make me any more of an enthusiast than someone who drives a Fiero. The problem comes when people think their cars are worth more than anyone else will pay for them.

It is very clear to me that I'm not capable of expressing my thoughts in a way that can be easily understood. I apologize.

Jonathan

Looks like I'm not crazy after all.

http://www.libertymutual.co...tter-car-replacement

Jonathan

I don't think anyone thought you were crazy, maybe just not very clear on how you would define enthusiast. I am not trying to be a jerk, just trying to clarify your thoughts so you can have some discussions and come up with answers you will get asked.

Several insurance companies will offer a new car if the crashed one is less than a year old, even for relatively minor collisions because new cars are much more difficult to repair correctly. Many shops cut corners and don't replace everything they list on their estimates. Some cars like BMW's go so far as to require complete matching sets of suspension bushings installed on the same axle even if only one has to be replaced. The cars really are that sensitive to one new bushing to drivers who really know what they are driving. The average person would have no idea. The newer a car is, the easier it is to determine value because their condition is pretty much mileage based. The older a car gets the more the overall condition matters since most people brag about doing nothing to their cars for many miles and then wonder why they need several thousand dollars of repairs all at once. The reality is they just ignored everything and therefore made their car way less valuable than one that has twice the mileage, but everything works.

If you think about it, how many people pay the exact same price for the exact same model of car when it is brand new off the showroom floor? I am guessing there is a pretty big range of "worth" for brand new cars. The dealer will take advantage of those that are uninformed like a vulture and just tolerate the educated buyer enough to get another sale at less profit.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Looks like I'm not crazy after all. http://www.libertymutual.co...tter-car-replacement Jonathan

I used their automated on-line quote program. Full coverage for just me and my 86 GT with Better Car Replacement came out to $44 a month. Gonna make some calls tomorrow.

Jonathan

To the OP... I think you are getting more grief on this post than you deserve. I totally see where you are coming from.

I tried to get agreed value policy from conventional insurance company and came up empty. There is a gap in insurance products.

I have Grundy on two of my Fieros and they are garaged and driven very infrequent, so it's inexpensive. Heck my chop top hasn't even left the garage in over a year so Grundy's risk is Zero. The main reason they insist on a garage is that if the car is stolen from a locked garage it's covered under your homeowner's policy. So the only time they are at risk is when the car is actually being driven. That's why they don't want you driving it to work or school every day.

But people drive expensive cars every day of the week and manage to get them insured for full value. I see no reason why with an appraisal and receipts or whatever process they want to use that you can't insure a collector car that is driven daily. The fact that no one would ever pay me for what I have in my Fiero is irrelevant. I can insure a diamond ring based on it's appraisal and if it gets lost or stolen, (which is far more likely than a Fiero) I get full value, despite the fact that diamonds have almost no resale value thanks to the Debeer's cartel, (but I digress).

The fact is we have two choices, drive an expensive Fiero daily and take your chances with regular insurance (not recommended) or drive an expensive Fiero occasionally with collector insurance (my choice). I know this doesn't work for everybody, but a few years ago I gave up on the notion of driving a Fiero daily and insurance was just one of the reasons.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I used their automated on-line quote program. Full coverage for just me and my 86 GT with Better Car Replacement came out to $44 a month. Gonna make some calls tomorrow.

Just for reference, I'm currently paying $43 a month for liability and comprehensive only. I would gladly pay an extra dollar a month for full coverage including Better Car Replacement!

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: Several insurance companies will offer a new car if the crashed one is less than a year old, even for relatively minor collisions because new cars are much more difficult to repair correctly. Many shops cut corners and don't replace everything they list on their estimates. Some cars like BMW's go so far as to require complete matching sets of suspension bushings installed on the same axle even if only one has to be replaced. The cars really are that sensitive to one new bushing to drivers who really know what they are driving. The average person would have no idea. ...

Basically insurance companies suck. Nothing personal to anyone on here that works for one, but the policies they have are ridiculously in favor of them and the customer has almost no recourse but to sue.

My co-worker had his BMW M3 convertible wrecked while it was parked. Okay obviously it wasn't his fault, but now he has to deal with a 3rd party insurance claim and the company, (that I won't name but it rhymes with Ballstate) is cutting corners like you won't believe. Even though BMW insists to replace shocks and struts in pairs, (even on the undamaged side) they will only pay for one shock.

His other car someone backed into it and hit it on the side. The other person claimed they didn't do it that my friend somehow got the side of his car to strike the back of this jerk's car. I'd like to see the physics that makes that possible. The other person's insurance (that I won't name but it rhymes with Bate Farm) backed up the jerk and wouldn't pay. Not until my friend had his lawyer send a demand letter and even then they only admitted 70% fault because they said my friend should have gotten out of the way. Ridiculous these insurance companies are when it comes to paying claims.

So dealing with collector cars is just another headache they don't want to deal with. Even with three certified appraisals and hundreds of pictures they know that any damage will total the car and out them at a disadvantage if there is agreed value. They will lowball the value on a brand new car like you won't believe. Another friend of mine had his wife's minivan totaled. They tried to say every little pre-existing scratch lowered the value by $500 or more.

I have never totaled a car, but from my friend's experiences it's basically a nightmare.

- Jonathan

Even if the company honors this policy statement, how is this any different than any other replacement value policy when it comes to a Fiero? An '85 Fiero with 150K miles on it that gets totalled is worth no more than an '86 with 135K miles on it. They will give you the same amount of money, not a replacement car. The Liberty Mutual policy doesn't get you what you asked for in my opinion. Paying $540 per year is no different than any other replacement value policy IMHO.

My car is an '86 GT with 62K miles. Pics in sig. Assuming the Better Car Replacment program is available, that would bump me up to an '87 GT with 47K miles. I don't know what such a car would be going for but I bet it would satisfy me.

------------------
Jonathan
23K mile '85 notchie - Still under construction
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121056.html
Life is good when your wife is good! - me
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - Lord Acton
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not - Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants - Thomas Jefferson

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: The company would have to police its policies with periodic inspections to make sure the car is still worth the agreed value.

I have Grundy. I pretty much pay for a dollar amount of insurance. They never inspected my car and I can insure it for however much I want (probably within reason). I did send them pics, only 2 exterior pics. I pay for the amount of insurance, higher amount insured means higher payment. I chose an amount that I thought I could replace the car with. My car is not all stock, but is mostly stock.

I began with "Grundy" a few years ago, since then it has been taken over by "Philadelphia insurance". But my policy has not changed. I'm not sure if new customers would be the same. Their policy allows for pleasure driving as well as driving to shows, in parades, cruises (basically collector car events). You must have a daily driver in addition to the insured car. That addition al car doesnt have to be insured with Grundy.

If a company were to insure a collector car as a daily driver I would suspect the amount it costs would be more than insuring through a "generic car" policy. But coverage would be better...?

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I didn't read the fine print, but I would bet sight unseen on the policy that they won't offer that policy on a Fiero. Their on-line application tool might be too stupid to catch it, but I would be very surprised if you actually got a policy like that on a Fiero.

Just got off the phone with a Liberty Mutual agent. As far as he knows, they are the only company that has anything like the Better Car Replacement program. He also does not know of any model year restrictions. He's working up my quote and will get back to me. I'll let you know what I find out.

He did say that it would be no problem to cover a single driver and vehicle out of a family. Depending on potential savings, I may only do the Fiero or we might do all three cars and our home for maximum savings.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: My car is an '86 GT with 62K miles... that would bump me up to an '87 GT with 47K miles. I don't know what such a car would be going for but I bet it would satisfy me.

I thought that was the whole point of this thread... not knowing how much you would get if you totalled your car. Unless you ask them what reference they use to determine a used car's value, then check to see what your current car is worth and what that hypothetical '87 with 15K less miles on the clock is worth, you may not be any better off. I hope it turns out well for you.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: I thought that was the whole point of this thread... not knowing how much you would get if you totalled your car. Unless you ask them what reference they use to determine a used car's value, then check to see what your current car is worth and what that hypothetical '87 with 15K less miles on the clock is worth, you may not be any better off. I hope it turns out well for you.

The point was to find something better. Either by someone pointing out a company and policy that I (and others) were not aware of or by banding together to push for something better.

The Liberty Mutual "Better Car Replacment" program falls into the "better" category. It is the only daily driver policy that pledges to make things as good or better than what they were. I belive that is the idea that all insurance companies are "selling" but most are not delivering.

I never said I needed a specific amount for a totaled car. I said I wanted a fair settlement that would replace the car minus the deductable. In simple terms, I didn't want to play games or get screwed.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 01-02-2013).]

So if they evaluate your car at $750 that would be fair?

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: So if they evaluate your car at $750 that would be fair?

Bloozberry, you are usually so helpful and positive. What is going on with you in this thread? Here we are with the extremes again. To answer your question, no. It would not be fair. If I typed it in all caps, would you hear me? ALL I WANT IS FAIR REPLACEMENT VALUE IN THE EVENT OF A TOTAL LOSS COLLISION.

You seemed to be rooting for the insurance companies' right to pay what they want. It almost sounded like you wished you could pay more!! I guess I could let that slide. Then you basically told me "tough stuff, you can't get a policy like that". Everything seemed to be either collector with restrictions or regular with a potential and undisclosed loss even with full coverage.

Now this Liberty Mutual Better Car Replacement policy comes to light. Now we have a company that says they want your business so much that they are willing to do you one better. How do you respond to that? You suggest that they will value the car many times lower than the companies we were previously dealing with.

Are you mad about something? Perhaps that US insurance rates are lower than Canadian rates? I'm not understanding your irritation with this topic.

Jonathan

With all due respect, you're reading too much into my replies. I'm not mad or upset, except that you are taking my constructive criticism personally. I certainly am trying to be helpful. I'm playing Devil's Advocate because there are ceratin aspects of insurance that you don't/didn't seem to understand very well based on what you've said so far:

You started by saying you wanted insurance that was affordable for a daily driver, and would give you collision coverage that would pay you a fair value for your car if you ever totalled it. You stated your previous insurance company's agents couldn't tell you how much your car would be worth, and assumed they would give you less than what you believed to be the fair value for it, although I don't believe you stated why you felt this way. You also stated that you felt insurance companies could give you any value they want for your totalled car and you could do nothing that would result in a fairer pay-off without incurring even more expenses than it would be worth. You didn't seem aware that companies use industry standards to estimate the value of your car.

I'm only suggesting that you ask what method Liberty uses to determine the value of a used car. Then, determine what the value of your car and the one-year-newer replacement car would hypothetically be. If they're no better than anyone else, then perhaps you are better off continuing without collision coverage to save the money, as you are already doing. Unless you do this, you can only assume you are better off with Liberty.

If prodding you to have a second look at what you're doing is wrong, then I apologize. I also apologize if you think I'm criticizing you, but you must understand that I can only assess your level of understanding of the insurance industry by what you've written so far in this thread. Very few people do anything more than just pay the premium, then gripe when their claims fall short of their expectations, so I applaud your effort to get as good value as you can for the money. Just don't take it for granted that you are ahead of the game with Liberty. Good luck my friend.

Or determine your own value like I did.

Blooz, OK, good deal. Thanks for participating.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand a lot about insurance. I'll also say that I felt molested by my State Farm agent the last time I got hit. They brag about having a toll free number to address claims but I didn't get satisfaction from them or my local agent who I had been with for almost 20 years.

What I can understand are numbers. I can compare the different rates two companies charge for a 100/300/100 policy. I can see that the cheaper rate is usually preferred. Of course the company's AM Best rating, customer service reputation, and convenience might play a roll in that decision.

I can also pick between a clearly stated formula for, and a vague pledge to, cover my vehicle. If the agent can tell me that my replacement value is (A) 20% more than its own market value or (B) equal to the value of a similar car that is one year and 15K miles newer, I can process that. If he says he can use NADA and receipts to figure the after crash value, I can process that. If the agent himself can't explain how reimbursment in the event of a total loss works, I am not comforted by that. The choice between the two is clear.

I received the quotes that the agent worked up. I can go from Liability, Comprehensive, and Uninsured Motorist to full coverage with Better Car Replacement for $1 more per month than I'm paying now.

I guess the next important question to ask is if anyone has had any bad experiences with Liberty Mutual?

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 01-02-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Even if the company honors this policy statement, how is this any different than any other replacement value policy when it comes to a Fiero? An '85 Fiero with 150K miles on it that gets totalled is worth no more than an '86 with 135K miles on it. They will give you the same amount of money, not a replacement car. The Liberty Mutual policy doesn't get you what you asked for in my opinion. Paying $540 per year is no different than any other replacement value policy IMHO.

It is different from any other replacement value policy because it covers an older car with no restrictions. Nobody else does that. Allstate has a replacement program for cars bought brand new but that only lasts for three years after the purchase.

I pulled the trigger on this insurance. At this time I only moved my Fiero over. I decided to bump up the coverage a little and add Towing. We had to add my wife to the policy by law also. When it was all said and done, the quote actually WENT DOWN. I ended up with full coverage, better car replacement, 100/300/100, uninsured motorist, low deductibles, coverage for the wife, and towing.

Total 12 month cost? $504 and no restrictions. Do I need anything else? Nah, I'm good.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 01-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: It is different from any other replacement value policy because it covers an older car with no restrictions. Nobody else does that.

It must be different in the States. Here in Canada, I don't know of any insurance companies that don't allow you to buy regular replacement value coverage for any year car, without driving restrictions. The pay out however if you total the car is based on Kelly BB. The only policies with driving restrictions are those insured under an agreed value policy.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: It must be different in the States. Here in Canada, I don't know of any insurance companies that don't allow you to buy regular replacement value coverage for any year car, without driving restrictions. The pay out however if you total the car is based on Kelly BB. The only policies with driving restrictions are those insured under an agreed value policy.

I think we just figured out why we couldn't connect on this!!

Jonathan

The Eureka Moment.

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: It is different from any other replacement value policy because it covers an older car with no restrictions. Nobody else does that. Allstate has a replacement program for cars bought brand new but that only lasts for three years after the purchase. I pulled the trigger on this insurance. I ended up with full coverage, better car replacement, 100/300/100, uninsured motorist, low deductibles, coverage for the wife, and towing. Total 12 month cost? $508 and no restrictions. Do I need anything else? Nah, I'm good. Jonathan

Does the policy define what "better car replacement" means? I'm still fuzzy on how they can give me a "better" car than my highly customized 1988 Fiero.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Does the policy define what "better car replacement" means? I'm still fuzzy on how they can give me a "better" car than my highly customized 1988 Fiero.

The way I understand it is if there isn't a newer comparable vehicle, they use the actual vehicle value plus 20%. The agent said that they accept receipts and documentation to determine the value. In your instance, you'd be best off if you contact an agent in your state and discuss it. You'll prolly have to have an appraisal done. I intend to do the same. I'm gonna ask if they have preferred appraisers before I select one.

I'm waiting for my documents to arrive in the mail. I might be able to access all my particulars on-line but I'd prefer to see hard copies.

I sent my agent a link to this thread in hopes that he'll register for membership and participate in this discussion. He's more equipped to answer questions than I am.

Jonathan

Before I dive into the insurance chat, I'd like to thank Boostdreamer for inviting me to the thread.

As Boostdreamer stated, Our Better Car Replacement coverage protects your investment in your car, by giving you the value of a one model year newer vehicle in the event your car is totaled. BCR adds value to your policy and better protects you and your vehicle in the event of a total loss. It gives you increased freedom and flexibility to purchase a replacement car with an increased payout, making the replacement process easier. And YES, that includes Fiero fanatics alike!! Further, you will be given the Actual Cash Value of your lost vehicle, and the endorsement will provide an additional 20% of the ACV. It is important to note, that if you have an older vehicle you will want to cover your bases and get an appraisal or proof from NADA to keep on file. Afterall, you have obviously already put your time and hard earned money into your "baby" so why not go the extra mile and insure that it stays that way.

I'll leave my first post short and sweet with room for questions.

Joe

quote Originally posted by Liberty Mutual: Before I dive into the insurance chat, I'd like to thank Boostdreamer for inviting me to the thread. As Boostdreamer stated, Our Better Car Replacement coverage protects your investment in your car, by giving you the value of a one model year newer vehicle in the event your car is totaled. BCR adds value to your policy and better protects you and your vehicle in the event of a total loss. It gives you increased freedom and flexibility to purchase a replacement car with an increased payout, making the replacement process easier. And YES, that includes Fiero fanatics alike!! Further, you will be given the Actual Cash Value of your lost vehicle, and the endorsement will provide an additional 20% of the ACV. It is important to note, that if you have an older vehicle you will want to cover your bases and get an appraisal or proof from NADA to keep on file. Afterall, you have obviously already put your time and hard earned money into your "baby" so why not go the extra mile and insure that it stays that way. I'll leave my first post short and sweet with room for questions. Joe

So your value, the amount paid out, is Nada value?

quote Originally posted by Liberty Mutual: ...you will be given the Actual Cash Value of your lost vehicle, and the endorsement will provide an additional 20% of the ACV.

Thank you for participating in this thread. To reiterate 2.5's question, I too would be interested to know what reference material Liberty Mutual would use to determine the ACV of a Pontiac Fiero, and whether that material is in the public domain? If on the other hand the ACV would be based on an appraiser's (or adjuster's) evaluation, then the question becomes whether Liberty Mutual offers a list of company approved appraisers?

quote Originally posted by Liberty Mutual: I'll leave my first post short and sweet with room for questions. Joe

Thanks for coming to this thread....

Insurance Questions come up all the time and most of us are left to guessing.

The problem that a lot of us run into is that we have thousands if not tens of thousands invested in our cars. NADA doesn't even come close to covering our investment. Classic car insurance will cover any value we elect to cover, but those policies come with many restrictions, (garage, no daily driving, etc).

The Liberty Mutual policy sounds better, but the way it's been described I don't think it adequately fills the gap between regular insurance (ACV) and collector car policy (Agreed Value).

In other words AVC + 20% still leaves me about $15,000 in the hole in the event of a loss. So if I get an appraisal that that shows my car has an appraisal value of $20K do you have a policy that will cover it at that amount and with minimal restrictions? That is the $64,000 question. Thanks.

- Jonathan

quote Originally posted by jscott1: In other words AVC + 20% still leaves me about $15,000 in the hole in the event of a loss. So if I get an appraisal that that shows my car has an appraisal value of $20K do you have a policy that will cover it at that amount and with minimal restrictions? That is the $64,000 question. Thanks. - Jonathan

I have no idea what your car has in it nor does it matter for this conversation.

You do have a good question. The thing that always surprised me is, exactly what is an appraisal worth? Just because I choose to put way more money into a vehicle than anyone else will ever pay me for it, is it still worth the "appraised" value. I have seen many vehicles over the years with appraised values of ridiculous amounts that the cars would never sell for.

Jessica Barton's Toyota is a good example of someone who said she had put hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. Is her car really worth hundreds of thousands of dollars just because she spent it and it has a good track record? I doubt it, but can she still insure it for that amount? I wonder if her car was ever appraised and what it would be worth now that it was stolen and chopped up.

On average on my own cars, adding full collision coverage costs me $35 for 6 months over just liability. Every one of mine therefore has full coverage...even my $1000 15 year old minivan.

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: I have seen many vehicles over the years with appraised values of ridiculous amounts that the cars would never sell for.

True. But at least if a dump truck totals it - you'll get a nice cheque (to start over if you want)!!

I don't plan to sell my Indy any time soon, but at least I'm not afraid to drive it - because I'm insured to the appraised value.

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3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: I have no idea what your car has in it nor does it matter for this conversation. You do have a good question. The thing that always surprised me is, exactly what is an appraisal worth? Just because I choose to put way more money into a vehicle than anyone else will ever pay me for it, is it still worth the "appraised" value. I have seen many vehicles over the years with appraised values of ridiculous amounts that the cars would never sell for. Jessica Barton's Toyota is a good example of someone who said she had put hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. Is her car really worth hundreds of thousands of dollars just because she spent it and it has a good track record? I doubt it, but can she still insure it for that amount? I wonder if her car was ever appraised and what it would be worth now that it was stolen and chopped up.

That's a really good question.

My 87GT 4.9 if I assumed my labour at 20 bucks an hour, I have say 500 hours into the car over the years, that's, 10,000 plus the cost of parts and the car and such, I'll bet I have 20,000 into the car. Now I know I love the car and frankly Market Value on the car as it stands is about $8000 on a good day. I'll bet appraisal I could push and get it appraised for 10,000 at best. I'll never get what I have into the car, and that sucks. However such is life.
Now being in British Columbia Canada this discussion is pointless for me, as I have mentioned I have a perfect driving record and pay $1300 per year for full coverage. I would LOVE to have your American options for car insurance.

In our local club, we have a member that went over the top, really freaking insanely over the top. He has or had, because he no longer owns the car and took a rumored 50k loss on the car, had spent $113,000 into his Fiero. I believe he was able to get a Declared Value insurance policy as a Kit Car for 100,000 it was no longer licensed as a Fiero or titled as a Fiero. Before anyone asks how you could spend that much on a Fiero. Imaging if you took your car to a shop, and told them, Blank Cheque, go to every Fiero parts vendor and order the best of the best, Archie 6spd Kit, Tubular Suspension, Coil Overs on all 4 corners, Wildwood 4 or 6 piston calipers with 13" rotors, ZZ383 SBC with giant Turbo. New Leather Interior, custom Dash, Digital Gauges, and a slew of other mods. Then had the shop rebuild the car from Top to Bottom, oh and did I mention it had a Ferrari 308 Body on it. He owned a real Lamborghini and was tired of the high maintenance costs, so he wanted something that was Chevy Powered but would out perform his real Exotic.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.