I've been looking around for a good 5 months and so far I got 2 options I'm considering. An LS3 swap with Archie, or a 3800 SC series II. And considering cost / bang-for-your-buck, looks like the 3800 SC is gonna win out.....but damn I'd sure love a new LS3.
So here is what I'm looking for / wanting to do. Basically, a built engine, assembled, and all parts/mounts/programming/axels/harnesses/nuts/bolts/blood/sweat/tears already included. Be it a full kit sent to me for self-install, or someone to install it, I'm open to both.
Goals are:
1) 350 hp minimum, 400+ depending on cost. 2) Bolt up to a 6 speed manual transmission from a G6. (already have the tranny, no other parts) 3) Price range.......who the hell knows....lol.
So to all the folks that have done swaps already or had them done for you, any recommendations or folks willing to take the task? (Fiero is an 86 GT, great condition, located in Trail Creek, IN 46360)
-Nick
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06:19 PM
PFF
System Bot
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
I've been looking around for a good 5 months and so far I got 2 options I'm considering. An LS3 swap with Archie, or a 3800 SC series II. And considering cost / bang-for-your-buck, looks like the 3800 SC is gonna win out.....but damn I'd sure love a new LS3.
So here is what I'm looking for / wanting to do. Basically, a built engine, assembled, and all parts/mounts/programming/axels/harnesses/nuts/bolts/blood/sweat/tears already included. Be it a full kit sent to me for self-install, or someone to install it, I'm open to both.
Goals are:
1) 350 hp minimum, 400+ depending on cost. 2) Bolt up to a 6 speed manual transmission from a G6. (already have the tranny, no other parts) 3) Price range.......who the hell knows....lol.
So to all the folks that have done swaps already or had them done for you, any recommendations or folks willing to take the task? (Fiero is an 86 GT, great condition, located in Trail Creek, IN 46360)
-Nick
I can tell you right now, the F40 is going to make this a PITA to find someone. Bmwguru has done a couple of them now, but has sworn that he won't do any more. Other than him, WCF has completed one that I know of, but their "kit" has issues with compatibility. For ease, I strongly recommend going with a F23 (5 speed). Unlike most of the people that will talk down about this, I actually had this done. It's the F40 / 3800 combo that's the issue. Neither of them are issues by themselves, but together they're a major PITA to have done and it's quite costly compared to other options. If you want more details, try PM'ing bmwguru and see if he'll share what it was like. At this point I don't know if he'll even want to talk about it LOL.
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06:33 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
He said LS3 or 3800, did he not? A blind monkey can do a 3800 swap. If he wants the F40, just take the car to Archie and get the F40 swapped on the stock v6 (IIRC Archie has done this before). Then do the 3800 swap if he decides to go that route. Though if its at Archie's, I doubt it would leave there powered by the original engine.
On a side note.. with the popularity of the 3800, and Archie's long history with the Fiero community, IMO, I think he is missing out on a lot of additional business by refusing to do any non-V8 swaps.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 11-15-2012).]
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07:59 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
He said LS3 or 3800, did he not? A blind monkey can do a 3800 swap. If he wants the F40, just take the car to Archie and get the F40 swapped on the stock v6 (IIRC Archie has done this before). Then do the 3800 swap if he decides to go that route. Though if its at Archie's, I doubt it would leave there powered by the original engine.
On a side note.. with the popularity of the 3800, and Archie's long history with the Fiero community, IMO, I think he is missing out on a lot of additional business by refusing to do any non-V8 swaps.
He said in his post that he was leaning on going 3800. It's not quite that simple as far as getting the F40 done first then just swapping out the engine. You're looking at different axles and there's a fitment issue with the oil filter on the 3800 with this transmission. You also have the clutch / flywheel combo to contend with, it's not plug and play like SPEC claims. It wasn't as easy as people would think. If he went LS3, it probably would be easier for the F40, but the LS3 will be more expensive. If he stays 3800 minded, he'd be better off going with a different transmission, or the cost is going to skyrocket for the F40.
quote
Originally posted by Division:
And considering cost / bang-for-your-buck, looks like the 3800 SC is gonna win out.....but damn I'd sure love a new LS3.
-Nick
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08:25 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
I'm just offering advice. I am not saying which would be easier or more cost effective. If the OP wants an F40 (he did already purchase it) then so be it. It doesn't matter to me if he wants either engine. Its his car and his money.
Personally, I'd go with the LS3/F40 and send it to Archie... or go with a 3800/F23... its not our choice to make for him.
If you go with the 3800 SC engine, consider the Series III to get 20 more base HP as a starting point. With an appropriate cam, large TV, intercooler, and a smaller pulley, you should be able to make 350 HP with a decent performance tune. You can either use the drive by wire setup or convert to a cable type throttle control.
Nelson
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08:52 PM
Division Member
Posts: 148 From: Trail Creek, IN Registered: Sep 2012
I'm not hell bent on the F40 transmission. If it's that big of a PITA I can just resell it.
Big issue is cost. An LS3 with the F40 is very expensive to have done, where the 3800 isn't even close. Kinda why I asked to see if anyone had any advice on the matter for the 3800.
Basically, if a 3800 can get to 400+ HP at 1/2 the cost of an LS3 swap....well durrrrrrrr
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10:17 PM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3524 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
I'm not hell bent on the F40 transmission. If it's that big of a PITA I can just resell it.
Big issue is cost. An LS3 with the F40 is very expensive to have done, where the 3800 isn't even close. Kinda why I asked to see if anyone had any advice on the matter for the 3800.
Basically, if a 3800 can get to 400+ HP at 1/2 the cost of an LS3 swap....well durrrrrrrr
Yes a LS3 is going to cost, and a F40 will cost too. Just so you know, the Master kit Archie sells for the F40 is over $3k. That's just a kit to make the transmission work with any engine. However, this is based on certain things being within a range, and if you're engine isn't mounted a certain way, then some parts of the kit will have to be modified in order to work. Me having a F40 added a good $5k or more to my build costs, and that's with bmwguru giving me a huge break since he was already doing so many other things.
Justin is running a high powered 3800 with a F23, and it seems to be handling the power well. Also it's not exactly plug and play but it's much simpler than the F40. If you're not wanting the cost of the LS3, then definitely go 3800 and definitely stay away from the F40. You can do a lot with a 3800, and nosrac's right, a turbo would take it to a level that most LS3's can't get to, and may still be cheaper than the LS3 route. If you go this route, there are probably a lot more shops to choose from as well.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-16-2012).]
Have you seen the aftermarket for GEN-III/IV motors at all?
Right now, the only verified V8 within striking distance of the 3800's on the 1/4 mile list is Don Kraus's LSX. Given the cost of the LS3 swap and then the cost of modding it to make it anywhere near as powerful as Fiero X's, darkhorizon's, justinbart's, cars I would have to say it wasn't an overstatement at all. The OP could do a turbo 3800 on a budget and get more power than he could get with the same budget doing a LS3. If you disagree, throw out some numbers.
Now, if you had said a LS9, then this would be a different conversation, but the budget part would still have to be considered.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-16-2012).]
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11:43 AM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
In everything, especially COST. In that case, why not just go rocket engine? I'd imagine that would trump everything else too, but the OP was talking real life possibilities and he already said he wasn't looking to spend LS3 money, so it's kind of a moot point.
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12:04 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 16083 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
The problem these days is that 3800 swap shops are getting fewer. Its a decent engine but when you include all the bells and whistles you are looking at $8k add that F23 or F40 and you are over $10K turn key. ImO these engines are more compatible with the 4T65eHD trans.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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12:38 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
In everything, especially COST. In that case, why not just go rocket engine? I'd imagine that would trump everything else too, but the OP was talking real life possibilities and he already said he wasn't looking to spend LS3 money, so it's kind of a moot point.
You are missing the point. Was it not you that said the LS3 cant get anywhere near the 3800? Thats a load of crap. Displacement wins (with all things equal) period. So again, LS3 > 3800. Dont forget, this is coming from a turbo 3800 owner...
Back in my street racing days I was chatting with a bunch of import owners. They went on an on about their boosted & meth injected honduhs. "There is a replacement for displacement.. turbos"! To which I replied, wait till the domestic guys start using the same technology. BAM, now you cant swing a dead cat without hitting big turbo'd meth swilling V8's. Even the Lambo guys are slapping on turbos on their V10's.
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01:15 PM
Division Member
Posts: 148 From: Trail Creek, IN Registered: Sep 2012
Well it sounds like the 3800 route for me along with a 5-speed manual.
Now the big question is, who can build it and potentially install it for me in the Chicago / North-West Indiana regoin? There is one fairly local shop I would trust with custom work but they're hella expensive. If someone could put the engine/trans together along with a "kit" with everything I need to install I'm sure I can do it myself, but at the same time I'd rather have someone with experiance instead of me making a potential mess of things.
Well it sounds like the 3800 route for me along with a 5-speed manual.
Now the big question is, who can build it and potentially install it for me in the Chicago / North-West Indiana regoin? There is one fairly local shop I would trust with custom work but they're hella expensive. If someone could put the engine/trans together along with a "kit" with everything I need to install I'm sure I can do it myself, but at the same time I'd rather have someone with experiance instead of me making a potential mess of things.
If they do the swap right and meet your requirements, then its money well spent. There are WAY TOO MANY shady shops out there and the good shops know it. Hence, they can charge what they want.
Mustangsbeware maybe?
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01:26 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
You are missing the point. Was it not you that said the LS3 cant get anywhere near the 3800? Thats a load of crap. Displacement wins (with all things equal) period. So again, LS3 > 3800. Dont forget, this is coming from a turbo 3800 owner...
Back in my street racing days I was chatting with a bunch of import owners. They went on an on about their boosted & meth injected honduhs. "There is a replacement for displacement.. turbos"! To which I replied, wait till the domestic guys start using the same technology. BAM, now you cant swing a dead cat without hitting big turbo'd meth swilling V8's. Even the Lambo guys are slapping on turbos on their V10's.
Read my wording again....
quote
Originally posted by mptighe:
Yes a LS3 is going to cost, and a F40 will cost too. Just so you know, the Master kit Archie sells for the F40 is over $3k. That's just a kit to make the transmission work with any engine. However, this is based on certain things being within a range, and if you're engine isn't mounted a certain way, then some parts of the kit will have to be modified in order to work. Me having a F40 added a good $5k or more to my build costs, and that's with bmwguru giving me a huge break since he was already doing so many other things.
Justin is running a high powered 3800 with a F23, and it seems to be handling the power well. Also it's not exactly plug and play but it's much simpler than the F40. If you're not wanting the cost of the LS3, then definitely go 3800 and definitely stay away from the F40. You can do a lot with a 3800, and nosrac's right, a turbo would take it to a level that most LS3's can't get to, and may still be cheaper than the LS3 route. If you go this route, there are probably a lot more shops to choose from as well.
Show me a stock N/A LS3 that is putting out more HP than Justin's car, or DH's car, or FieroX's car, or AkursedX's car. If you can GREAT, now show me the cost to build it and put it in a Fiero compared to the cost of putting in a turbo 3800. I didn't say anything about turboing a LS3, you did. If the cost of going LS3 is already cost prohibitive, how would talking forced induction on top of that help the discussion? He's talking bang for the buck. The cost of that engine alone will probably be as much as doing the full swap for the 3800, depending on where he gets the engine from. You keep ignoring the price tag. I'm actually addressing the OP's request, you're just arguing.
Oh, and BV since your opinion is coming from a turbo 3800 owner (which I belong to that group as much as you do since neither of our cars are completely finished yet), why didn't YOU go the turbo LS3 route?
Oh, and BV since your opinion is coming from a turbo 3800 owner (which I belong to that group as much as you do since neither of our cars are completely finished yet), why didn't YOU go the turbo LS3 route?
I didn't want one. My car was originally going to be just a BPU L67 swap. I'd be driving it if I would have stuck to that. LOL
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02:22 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
Yeah, I don't think that would have been possible on my budget, and most people won't be willing to spend what I did. Hell I wasn't willing to spend what I ended up spending.
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02:28 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
Show me a stock N/A LS3 that is putting out more HP than Justin's car, or DH's car, or FieroX's car, or AkursedX's car. .
That is one of the dumbest comments ever. Show me a stock 3800 that makes more power than any LSx, Concorde, Aircraft carrier, or a Saturn V rocket! Its not even apples to oranges.. more like sunshine to a donkey. You are going off on some wild tangent (arent I the one that does that? lol), the OP gave two options, I gave my opinion. It doesnt matter what I want. If he has the budget, I suggest the LS3. The more out there, the more common the swap, the more fellow Fiero owners will have access to the swap. Another 3800 is just another 3800 swap.
quote
Originally posted by mptighe:
Hell I wasn't willing to spend what I ended up spending.
Neither of us did... thats one thing we have in common.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 11-16-2012).]
Thats the thing, the shelf cost of running a Turbo 3800 at the levels of DH, Justinbart, FieroX, etc. is not always just a boneyard 80,000 mile engine, a Junkyard Holset and 30 PSI. You can do it. But its far from an ideal avenue of approach.
Form the sounds of the OP, he wants a rebliable built package from drop off to pickup, that is fast and runs without issues.
Buying NEW hardware, for a ls3 or a 3800 setup, ignoring the f40 part, and just using a 282.
3800 running warrantied low mileage engine -1200$ NEW quality turbocharger w/ warranty -1000$ Intercooler and piping -600$ BOV (new and not fake) -250$ Wasegate (new, not fake) -250$ Cam shaft and valvetrain (new parts) -500$ Mounts -250$ Clutch, flywheel (new Spec) -700$ Exhaust (shop built) -400$
Thats over $5,000 in parts, then the labor cost for the shop to assemble it?
Cost of a GEN IV crate w/ hardware about $8000, plus the cost for Archie's kit ($5700 for the works) and his labor, I would guess it could cost $15000-18000 to drop your car off at Archie's and pick it up with an LS3 in it. is that a lot, for a Fiero yes, but I dont hear those who have had it done complain much. There has been 2 bad customer reviews that I know of. One for issues with the GEN I SBC kit's componants, and one for body work. here is a LS3 fiero dyno http://tunedbypsi.com/admin...template-408-408.jpg 408 WHP. Warrantied from GM.
I wouldnt be so fast to dismiss the viability of a LS3 swap for a turn-key solution. The cost to fabricate all the parts for a 3800 could very well make the turn-key rate equal (Turbo Fab, Exhaust, Plumbing, Tuning at 80-100/hr). Plus install s LSXr Intake, and a camshaft, the LS3 could easily dyno over 470whp. for the cost of another 1000$ (or buy a LS376 @ 525bhp)
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02:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
I wouldnt be so fast to dismiss the viability of a LS3 swap for a turn-key solution. The cost to fabricate all the parts for a 3800 could very well make the turn-key rate equal (Turbo Fab, Exhaust, Plumbing, Tuning at 80-100/hr). Plus install s LSXr Intake, and a camshaft, the LS3 could easily dyno over 470whp. for the cost of another 1000$ (or buy a LS376 @ 525bhp)
Exactly! You can start with a 400whp engine with warranty (or just a low mileage used engine at what, 330hp or so?). Yes, its WAY more up front. However, there is also WAY more left in the engine. Anything you can do to the 3800, you can do to a LSx. The LSx will always make more power than the equally modded 3800.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 11-16-2012).]
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02:36 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
That is one of the dumbest comments ever. Show me a stock 3800 that makes more power than any LSx, Concorde, Aircraft carrier, or a Saturn V rocket! Its not even apples to oranges.. more like sunshine to a donkey. You are going off on some wild tangent (arent I the one that does that? lol), the OP gave two options, I gave my opinion. It doesnt matter what I want. If he has the budget, I suggest the LS3. The more out there, the more common the swap, the more fellow Fiero owners will have access to the swap. Another 3800 is just another 3800 swap. Neither of us did... thats one thing we have in common.
Seriously man, this is your problem right here... YOU DON'T "LISTEN" TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY. You see what you want and then respond to what you selectively read.
quote
Originally posted by Division: And considering cost / bang-for-your-buck, looks like the 3800 SC is gonna win out.....but damn I'd sure love a new LS3.
Say something else about my posts being dumb. Say something else about how the LS3 can beat the 3800 any day of the week. I've said it what 4 - 5 times now? COST is a factor according to the OP. If he wanted to spend the LS3 money, then he would go that route, but he himself said that cost makes the 3800 look more probable, so that's the direction I've been taking the discussion in. How is adding a turbo to the LS3 equation going to make a LS3 more feasible financially? He wants the best bang for buck.
For the amount he'd spend on a crate LS3, he can buy / build a turbo 3800, which WILL outperform a stock N/A LS3, and can also get better mileage. Yes, the LS3 can be made to go faster, but it already costs more money than going the turbo 3800 route, and that's WITHOUT modifications to the LS3. You going to send him the extra cash if it goes past whatever he decides his budget should be? The labor for the V8's is considerably more than the 3800, so even the labor will run more. Picking a fight with me about which engine has more potential has nothing to do with the OP's original questions.
Here, let me give you this to focus on. YOU WIN, the LS3 can be made to go faster, if budget ISN'T as much of a factor. There you go, now you can just read the you won part and ignore the rest.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-16-2012).]
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04:18 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
Thats the thing, the shelf cost of running a Turbo 3800 at the levels of DH, Justinbart, FieroX, etc. is not always just a boneyard 80,000 mile engine, a Junkyard Holset and 30 PSI. You can do it. But its far from an ideal avenue of approach.
Form the sounds of the OP, he wants a rebliable built package from drop off to pickup, that is fast and runs without issues.
Buying NEW hardware, for a ls3 or a 3800 setup, ignoring the f40 part, and just using a 282.
3800 running warrantied low mileage engine -1200$ NEW quality turbocharger w/ warranty -1000$ Intercooler and piping -600$ BOV (new and not fake) -250$ Wasegate (new, not fake) -250$ Cam shaft and valvetrain (new parts) -500$ Mounts -250$ Clutch, flywheel (new Spec) -700$ Exhaust (shop built) -400$
Thats over $5,000 in parts, then the labor cost for the shop to assemble it?
Cost of a GEN IV crate w/ hardware about $8000, plus the cost for Archie's kit ($5700 for the works) and his labor, I would guess it could cost $15000-18000 to drop your car off at Archie's and pick it up with an LS3 in it. is that a lot, for a Fiero yes, but I dont hear those who have had it done complain much. There has been 2 bad customer reviews that I know of. One for issues with the GEN I SBC kit's componants, and one for body work. here is a LS3 fiero dyno http://tunedbypsi.com/admin...template-408-408.jpg 408 WHP. Warrantied from GM.
I wouldnt be so fast to dismiss the viability of a LS3 swap for a turn-key solution. The cost to fabricate all the parts for a 3800 could very well make the turn-key rate equal (Turbo Fab, Exhaust, Plumbing, Tuning at 80-100/hr). Plus install s LSXr Intake, and a camshaft, the LS3 could easily dyno over 470whp. for the cost of another 1000$ (or buy a LS376 @ 525bhp)
You're forgetting some stuff. We need to account for the variables....
Will the crate LS3 include all accessories? Will the crate LS3 come with a ECU, wiring harness modified for Fiero use, etc, or is that stuff included in Archie's kit? Will this require tuning for the Fiero? Is the LS3 clutch and flywheel included in Archie's kit? How much labor difference between the two?
I'm willing to bet the LS3 is going to run AT LEAST $20k from Archie, maybe $18k if he gives a break, but no way $15k.
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04:27 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by mptighe: Here, let me give you this to focus on. YOU WIN, the LS3 can be made to go faster, if budget ISN'T as much of a factor. There you go, now you can just read the you won part and ignore the rest.
I'm sorry, was there more to your post? Look back at my LOL's and smiley faces... I am not arguing with you. Its a discussion. Nothing more. So easy, Turbo. Sorry but if I am considering something, its because I can afford it. The OP didn't say he couldn't afford it. I don't know him from Adam, he could be rolling in the dough, or be broke as a college student.
A very quick search netted LS3 engines from $1,900 and up. Not exactly what I would consider expensive for a complete engine. I fully understand the cost of an L67 swap. I have PERSONALLY performed the swap several times (how about you?) and have recommended it as the price/performance go to swap. I am here suggesting the OP go with which ever engine he chooses. It doesn't matter to me... You seem pretty adamant on the L67 to the point of being argumentative.
Either way, good luck with your swap (OP). Either will do nicely and can be made to make some serious HP but the LS3 will definitely have a clear advantage in that aspect.
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08:20 PM
Division Member
Posts: 148 From: Trail Creek, IN Registered: Sep 2012
Budget IS a factor. I'll be waiting for my tax return so I can do this up and selling a bunch of anime art to fund it too. lol So the cheaper the better.
Let me add the quote I got from Archie (hope you don't mind). It was $24k. But that included a LOT of stuff. LS3 new crate engine, corvette or equivilant brake upgrade, The F40 6-speed transmission, cleaning up and painting the engine compartment, and some other small things. I was hoping to keep it in the 10k to 15k range, and that depends on my budget come spring. I've already planned about $4k in brake and suspension upgrades.
[This message has been edited by Division (edited 11-16-2012).]
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10:23 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 16083 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
We can open up the old argument of which engine is best and the opinions will overwhelm the discussion. I view the value of an engine swap in terms of cost vs horsepower, mileage, reliability and ease of installation. As for "turn key swaps" the list is shrinking but Archie, WCF, Darthfiero, Whodeenie, Fiero Factory and a few guys on this forum still do them. BMWguru did some great swaps but apparently Dave's put those jobs on hold for the time being.. The good news is that by using multiple sources found here on this forum (and online), you can purchase Fiero swap parts for many engines.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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10:42 PM
Nov 17th, 2012
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Division: Let me add the quote I got from Archie (hope you don't mind). It was $24k.
I don't mind at all.
If you look around these kinds of threads, you'll notice that I usually don't get involved in them.
In this caes I'll make an exception.
That included, a brand new LS3 Crate engine & GM controler system. All of the parts needed to install your 6 speed transmission The best SPEC street clutch that money can buy. A new fuel pump & all new Russell brained fuel & return lines with AN fittings & 'Vette fuel filter/regulator All Polished Alumium CAI system Cleaning & painting (or Powdercoating) of everything in the engine compartment 3.5" mandrel exhaust system with dual Spun cats dual thrush mufflers all fed by Custom made Ceramic coated headers Front mounted battery & new alumium radiator MEZ-WP116SHD 42gpm Electirc WaterPump & required plumbing. & many more parts The whole engine is new The whole exhaust is new The fuel system is new The CAI system is new Plus, you're getting it all installed by the guys that have done more than 35 LS Engine swaps on Fieros & the guys who have done at least 40 6 speed installations.
And, you're getting it in a package that can be driven home reliability. With total comfidence in exactly what you got & not have to worry if the engine was rebuilt completely or properly, like you would with a junkyard engine.
The engine/controller package is about $8K, if you want to compare an LS swap to a junkyard 80,000 mile engine. Then you can alway buy a junkyard LS engine for the comparision & save $5 or $6K
If a 5 speed transmission is going to save money on a 6 cylinder swap then it's also going to save money on a LS swap.
If a person opts to put in a junkyard that has been rebuilt to the power level you want, you'll always be wondering if it was done to the quality level you can get with a brand new GM crate engine.
Thanks
Archie
P.S., Now this is where 10 different people who have all rebuilt their own engines & are happy with them, will jump in to flame me. They will think that I'm trying yo insult them. But I'm not trying to insult them. They have a right to be happy & proud of the engine they built for their cars. Saying that there's 10 of these guys out there, you gotta ask them Which one of the other nine would you have rebuild an engine for you?
My answer to that question is GM.
A
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01:51 PM
Division Member
Posts: 148 From: Trail Creek, IN Registered: Sep 2012
Archie does have a point. You basically get what you pay for. The problem is paying for it. lol And when you start getting to that high of price I start thinking, "Man, that's actually 2/3 the way from the price of a new Camaro 1SS"
It's going to come down to the fun factor. I actually had an 07' BMW M6 that I sold earlier this year (just too expensive and impractial). The biggest problem is that it wasn't "fun" and felt like a chore to drive in town. The Fiero is "fun". Maybe I'm mental but basically I'm saying I'd take a fun built Fiero over an M6...lol
Be it a full kit sent to me for self-install, or someone to install it, I'm open to both. 
Look back at my LOL's and smiley faces... I am not arguing with you. Its a discussion. Nothing more. So easy, Turbo. Sorry but if I am considering something, its because I can afford it. The OP didn't say he couldn't afford it. I don't know him from Adam, he could be rolling in the dough, or be broke as a college student. 
